First abortion ad to air next week

Euro_Kraut · 20-05-2010 09:25PM

I'm anti-life.

rovert · 20-05-2010 09:28PM

I'm anti-retro

Wolfe Tone · 20-05-2010 09:30PM

Abortion is the single greatest evil taking place in the World today. To those who say "if you don't want to don't do it" Well how about you apply that to other crimes? Like Murder? Its sickening. I don't know how anyone can condone abortion. And for those who say that an embryo isn't really a baby: To you I say this: you tell that to a couple who have suffered the tragedy of a miscarriage. It is nothing short of murder. It literally sickens me. Pro choice? What a joke. People shouldn't have the power to literally chose to have a baby SHREDDED. Simply pure evil.
Sure I feel sorry for those with unplanned pregnancies or those who have been raped, but that isn't the babies fault. Murder isnt the answer.

rovert · 20-05-2010 09:33PM

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Abortion is the single greatest evil taking place in the World today. To those who say "if you don't want to don't do it" Well how about you apply that to other crimes? Like Murder? Its sickening. I don't know how anyone can condone abortion. And for those who say that an embryo isn't really a baby: To you I say this: you tell that to a couple who have suffered the tragedy of a miscarriage. It is nothing short of murder. It literally sickens me. Pro choice? What a joke. People shouldn't have the power to literally chose to have a baby SHREDDED. Simply pure evil.
Sure I feel sorry for those with unplanned pregnancies or those who have been raped, but that isn't the babies fault. Murder isnt the answer.

Way not to make a rational argument here.

Lollymcd · 20-05-2010 09:34PM

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Abortion is the single greatest evil taking place in the World today.

I have to disagree, in my opinion, there are lot of things/people more evil than abortion.

philologos · 20-05-2010 09:37PM

Lollymcd: It all comes down to what you think abortion is. I personally think 50 million deaths as a result of abortion / termination a year is horrific. It's a barbaric practice that shouldn't have any place in the modern world.

If I am wrong in saying that it is barbaric, how come it wouldn't be deemed appropriate to show a full length abortion to a sex-ed class?

Penny Dreadful · 20-05-2010 09:42PM

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Abortion is the single greatest evil taking place in the World today. .

Worse than giving birth to a child and standing back while it is abused, beaten, raped and tortured by its mother or father for example, or a teacher, priest, etc?
Worse than beinging into the world a severly handicapped (mentally and physically) child that has zero quality of life and simply exists rather than actually living?
I think not.

Penny Dreadful · 20-05-2010 09:46PM

Jakkass wrote: »

Lollymcd: It all comes down to what you think abortion is. I personally think 50 million deaths as a result of abortion / termination a year is horrific. It's a barbaric practice that shouldn't have any place in the modern world.

If I am wrong in saying that it is barbaric, how come it wouldn't be deemed appropriate to show a full length abortion to a sex-ed class?

There isn't a single surgery that looks nice e.g. open heart surgery, a gastric by pass, a face lift, lipsuction, neuro surgery.......they all look horrific to the untrained medical eye.
Perhaps if a full video of childbirth, in all its gorey detail, was shown to kids in sex ed class (for what its worth here anyway) then it may make people learn about their bodies and practice safe sex. Perhaps if they saw what syphillis does to someone they'd use condoms, perhaps if they really understood the consequences of chlymadia they'd practice safe sex.

Every woman has the right to decide what happens to her body.

philologos · 20-05-2010 09:47PM

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

Worse than giving birth to a child and standing back while it is abused, beaten, raped and tortured by its mother or father for example, or a teacher, priest, etc?

Worse than beinging into the world a severly handicapped (mentally and physically) child that has zero quality of life and simply exists rather than actually living?
I think not.

1) How can you know for certain that your child will be abused?
2) Determine what is best for someone else in the case of a disability. Many people are born with disabilities, and still manage to live good lives.
3) Who gives you the authority to put someone else to death before they even experience life for themselves?
4) How do you account for the millions of other cases that do not involve the circumstances that you have just described?

There are too many issues for me to regard abortion-by-choice to be acceptable.

Wolfe Tone · 20-05-2010 09:51PM

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

Worse than giving birth to a child and standing back while it is abused, beaten, raped and tortured by its mother or father for example, or a teacher, priest, etc?
Worse than beinging into the world a severly handicapped (mentally and physically) child that has zero quality of life and simply exists rather than actually living?
I think not.

I think it is much worse.

Every woman has the right to decide what happens to her body.

Except its not her body is it? The baby isnt. That is flawed idiotic reasoning. A baby isnt some sort of tumor, its a new life. And people should try to protect that child's right to life.

20-05-2010 09:53PM

pikachucheeks wrote: »

Obviously, some women might not consider it to be a serious procedure, but it's not as simple as going for the likes of a spray tan.

Pika, you know I love you dear, but that made me LOL

Infact, it's going in my sic.

:pac:

and for the record, ditto to everything else you said

philologos · 20-05-2010 09:54PM

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

Every woman has the right to decide what happens to her body.

In this situation it is not just her body. That's the issue.

The right to life is crucial, to ensure all other rights. The issue is that there are two sets of rights in conflict here, the right to life, and the right of the mother not to desire a child.

Personally, it would take a lot to supersede denying someone elses right to life, choosing if they live or die for me. I've been given the privilege of life (thank God), and I don't know really why I deserve it more than any of those children who have been terminated.

The abortion rate could certainly be cut to a great degree if people were more careful, wouldn't you agree?

fontanalis · 20-05-2010 09:54PM

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Abortion is the single greatest evil taking place in the World today. To those who say "if you don't want to don't do it" Well how about you apply that to other crimes? Like Murder? Its sickening. I don't know how anyone can condone abortion. And for those who say that an embryo isn't really a baby: To you I say this: you tell that to a couple who have suffered the tragedy of a miscarriage. It is nothing short of murder. It literally sickens me. Pro choice? What a joke. People shouldn't have the power to literally chose to have a baby SHREDDED. Simply pure evil.
Sure I feel sorry for those with unplanned pregnancies or those who have been raped, but that isn't the babies fault. Murder isnt the answer.

You're right god does it all the time.

rovert · 20-05-2010 09:55PM

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I think it is much worse.

Convincing and considered

pikachucheeks · 20-05-2010 09:55PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Pika, you know I love you dear, but that made me LOL

Infact, it's going in my sic.

:pac:

and for the record, ditto to everything else you said

It was supposed to be a bit tongue in cheek, don't worry!

silly cow :pac:

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 20-05-2010 09:57PM

Not a fan of abortion myself, but in some cases it should be alowed. It should not be used by irresonsible people as a "Shít, I can't go to playa d'Ingles in the summer if i'm preggers", lets not use abortion as a birth control. Special cases such as rape and where the child will not have a good standard of life (severe disability) then it should be considered.

Poll is flawed, as you have no middle ground.

Lollymcd · 20-05-2010 09:57PM

Jakkass wrote: »

1) How can you know for certain that your child will be abused?
2) Determine what is best for someone else in the case of a disability. Many people are born with disabilities, and still manage to live good lives.
3) Who gives you the authority to put someone else to death before they even experience life for themselves?
4) How do you account for the millions of other cases that do not involve the circumstances that you have just described?

There are too many issues for me to regard abortion-by-choice to be acceptable.

How can you know every womans thoughts, minds, experience or life? How can you determine what is best for her? What gives you the authority to make choices for other people? How do you account for all those who have committed suicide as a result of a pregnancy they can't cope with? This is the problem with prochoice v prolife debate, who do you decide has more rights?

fontanalis · 20-05-2010 09:57PM

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

There isn't a single surgery that looks nice e.g. open heart surgery, a gastric by pass, a face lift, lipsuction, neuro surgery.......they all look horrific to the untrained medical eye.
Perhaps if a full video of childbirth, in all its gorey detail, was shown to kids in sex ed class (for what its worth here anyway) then it may make people learn about their bodies and practice safe sex. Perhaps if they saw what syphillis does to someone they'd use condoms, perhaps if they really understood the consequences of chlymadia they'd practice safe sex.

Every woman has the right to decide what happens to her body.

The baby isn't just the womens, why doesn't the father have a say all the time? I think abortion is justified under certain conditions but as a form of birth control it's disgusting.
What if a woman is talked out of an abortion and the baby is gay? Will the religious fundies still love it?

philologos · 20-05-2010 10:04PM

Lollymcd wrote: »

How can you know every womans thoughts, minds, experience or life? How can you determine what is best for her? What gives you the authority to make choices for other people? How do you account for all those who have committed suicide as a result of a pregnancy they can't cope with? This is the problem with prochoice v prolife debate, who do you decide has more rights?

Knowing thoughts isn't what I claim to do. I wouldn't dare to say that it is an easy decision to carry out an abortion either. I also don't dare to say that it isn't difficult, and that suicides don't result from pregnancy without the correct guidance and help through it. I don't claim to know a lot of things.

I think that we do have a responsibility both to protect the rights of the child, and as far as is practicable the rights of the mother in ensuring adequate services, and access to adoption agencies should one require it.

I just don't think that advocating the death of innocent people is right. I believe that all life should be taken seriously. By all life, I mean all life, that of the mother and of the child.

The pro-life position, defends all life, and considers both the rights of the child and the mother. The pro-choice situation ignores the rights of the child, automatically favouring those of the mother. This is what I find to be lacking in the pro-choice position, particularly in dealing with something as serious as life and death.

Wolfe Tone · 20-05-2010 10:08PM

I just want to say that I am sickened and very disappointed by the current status of the poll. As it stands 82 people would like to see people given the opportunity to choose to murder(in a horrible barbaric way)an innocent child. One of the things I am most proud about Ireland is that Abortion is illegal here. Long may that continue.

I'm heartened by Jackass' posts. Very well argued.

rovert · 20-05-2010 10:09PM

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I just want to say that I am sickened and very disappointed by the current status of the poll.

Then using cheap shock tactics to make your point.

Hank_Jones · 20-05-2010 10:09PM

I'm still kind of on the fence about this.

Previously I was pro-life, but as I've got older I'm leaning more towards pro-choice.

I can see the positives of it, to a certain extent.
Still don't fully understand the whole process of abortion either.

That whole Juno ''your baby has fingernails'' thing is fairly disturbing.

Wolfe Tone · 20-05-2010 10:10PM

rovert wrote: »

Then using cheap shock tactics to make your point.

The truth is never cheap.

rovert · 20-05-2010 10:11PM

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

The truth is never cheap.

It is not the truth tho

You'll never win people's minds here.

Penny Dreadful · 20-05-2010 10:15PM

Jakkass wrote: »

1) How can you know for certain that your child will be abused?
2) Determine what is best for someone else in the case of a disability. Many people are born with disabilities, and still manage to live good lives.
3) Who gives you the authority to put someone else to death before they even experience life for themselves?
4) How do you account for the millions of other cases that do not involve the circumstances that you have just described?

There are too many issues for me to regard abortion-by-choice to be acceptable.

I'm not saying that the child will be abused. I was saying that in relation to the other posters belief that abortion is the worst / greatest evil in the world. I was simply pointing out a tiny amount of the things that (IMHO) are worse than abortion.
Again I'm not claiming authority over deciding whose life is worth living or not but there are cases of children being born who are so badly handicapped in every way that they simply exist for a few hours, few days, or a few short years. They endure rather than live and there are some people, who are not evil monstors, that think they are actually doing a greater good by terminating the pregnancy than give birth to a baby that will have to endure that sort of life.

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I think it is much worse.

Except its not her body is it? The baby isnt. That is flawed idiotic reasoning. A baby isnt some sort of tumor, its a new life. And people should try to protect that child's right to life.

I'm not an idiot, I simply have a different opinion than your have. The foetus is growing inside the woman's body, it is her body. Similarly I don't believe that at the early stages of pregnancy that it is a baby, it is a foetus. For me there is a difference for you there isn't, as is your choice.

Jakkass wrote: »

In this situation it is not just her body. That's the issue.

The right to life is crucial, to ensure all other rights. The issue is that there are two sets of rights in conflict here, the right to life, and the right of the mother not to desire a child.

Personally, it would take a lot to supersede denying someone elses right to life, choosing if they live or die for me. I've been given the privilege of life (thank God), and I don't know really why I deserve it more than any of those children who have been terminated.

The abortion rate could certainly be cut to a great degree if people were more careful, wouldn't you agree?

If people practiced safe sex then many things would be cut to a great degree not just unplanned, unwanted pregnancies. I cannot fathom why so many people take risks with unsafe sex and I'm referring to STIs not just pregnancy. There are killer diseases out there and still people can be silly and not use a condom so yes I agree with you about that.
No form of contraception is 100% effective though and unplanned, unwanted pregnancies will occur. I am of the opinion that a woman has the right to choose. I am not saying that I would have an abortion if I got pregnant now, but at 32, have a job, have my education, own my home, etc having a child wouldn't be the worst thing to happen to me despite being single. However, if I had fallen pregnant at 20, not finished my degree, no job, no money, no future, then I may well have explored and possibly availed of the opportunity to terminate. Thankfully it is not a decision I've had to make.
There are few women who take a termination lightly. It is an invasive medical procedure that has to be carried out on her body and as with all procedures it is not without its risks. The psychological scars can be deep and painful and stay with her forever. Its not an easy decision to make for the vast majority.

Penny Dreadful · 20-05-2010 10:17PM

fontanalis wrote: »

The baby isn't just the womens, why doesn't the father have a say all the time? I think abortion is justified under certain conditions but as a form of birth control it's disgusting.
What if a woman is talked out of an abortion and the baby is gay? Will the religious fundies still love it?

The woman has a greater say as she has to endure the pregnancy, labour, child birth, post partum effects on her body. Unfair as it may seem to men the woman gets the greater say.

Duggy747 · 20-05-2010 10:18PM

Abortion is such a touchy subject, it just isn't black or white.

However I am with pro-choice and prefer that the person has a choice on what they want to do.

If you want to keep your baby, keep it.

If you don't, you don't. There's already enough orphans in this world to decide you don't want a kid when it's too late.

Penny Dreadful · 20-05-2010 10:18PM

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I just want to say that I am sickened and very disappointed by the current status of the poll. As it stands 82 people would like to see people given the opportunity to choose to murder(in a horrible barbaric way)an innocent child. One of the things I am most proud about Ireland is that Abortion is illegal here. Long may that continue.

I'm heartened by Jackass' posts. Very well argued.

Actually is is pefectly legal provided there is a risk to the life of the mother as distinct from her health. You can obtain an abortion legally here.

philologos · 20-05-2010 10:25PM

rovert wrote: »

It is not the truth tho

You'll never win people's minds here.

I don't know what's untruthful about saying that life begins when the sperm and ova fuse to form a zygote. That's the point when growth is first exhibited a continuous process. I don't know what could be said to be dishonest about that.

Most of the points on the pro-choice side regard arbitrary philosophical definitions of what life is.

You have one person saying, I don't believe that something is alive until it can think, but really, all thinking is is one step of development in life. It's kind of like saying that I don't believe that someone isn't truly alive until they can play the accordion, play the fiddle and ride a unicycle at the same time.

It's meaningless. It's all about people constructing definitions, to create environments that suit them over the unborn. It's a serious game of semantics, and unfortunately it is a game that has worked.

The justification, it's just a foetus, has resulted in children born at 22 weeks being left to die in hospitals in Britain because they are below the required age for treatment. In other words, it was just a foetus.

Children that survive abortion operations, are left to die in many countries, such as this case in Italy. In the USA, this used to be the case until the Bush Administration in 2002 affirmed the right of all children who survive outside of the womb to be regarded as human beings.

Indeed, this is one survivor of abortion speaking in Australia on the subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPF1FhCMPuQ

My views might be offensive to some, but I can't support abortion-by-choice if I am to give life the value that it deserves.

PeterIanStaker · 20-05-2010 10:25PM

rovert wrote: »

Can wait until they start sponsoring TV shows. Sex and The City perhaps.

or Maury

First abortion ad to air next week

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