What are we going to do with the sh*t stirrers after tomorrow?

Gigiwagga · 18-05-2010 09:56AM

Reading the posts in this thread is like eavesdropping on the conversation/argument a fifteen year old couple are having, realising the girl has become pregnant, whose fault is it,...oh **** what will we do, stupid *****idiots etc etc. fact is we are in trouble BIG TIME. Our children and probably our grandchildren will be indentured workers for much of their working lives.

I don't think it's fair to label the protesters as lazy scumbags etc. The truth is the real scumbags are on holiday in Spain etc and our Government are doing little or nothing about it. In the 2 years since the downturn/**** hit the fan our government have done zero to create a get back to work policy ZERO.
They repeat the mantra that first they need to save the banks etc, not much point having working banks when there isn't anybody left to use them. Save the producer and consumer first I say, the middleman comes last.
Every body is angry, I've been self employed since 1987 I had to sign on for the first time last month, I'm entitled to ****all. I've always been a net contributor to society. I attended the protest in Cork last weekend, about 150 people attended, I'm frustrated I'm extremely angry, and I'm afraid. I don't know what to do. Kicking some protesters head in would solve nothing I think, just a hunch.
Like the couple I started this post with who are perceiving the pending disaster, we need plenty of joined up thinking, without hidden agendas, party ideologues, or fence sitters. Remember whatever your background, current financial status, we are ALL ****ed.
Let's get together, yes even with the scumbag protesters at the dail, if you can't countenance this much, you are the one who has let yourself down.

biko · 18-05-2010 10:00AM

darkman2 wrote: »

For the record I want this government out and I am very angry like everyone else but this is not the time with Europe so unstable to be having this sort of attention drawn to us by a minority of people who just don't seem to get the damage this could do.

So when is a good time for you?
Don't put riots on the long finger.

After all the blood-thirsty bitching on AH the last few months I must say I'm surprised that when push comes to shove most posters chicken out*

*not directed at you specifically darkman.

"Kill the bankers"
Oh look they're protesting
"Kill the protesters"

Dyr · 18-05-2010 10:04AM

it f***ing hilarious that people really think the international markets will only realise that our economy has gone down the sh***ter if we hold protests about it.

General Zod · 18-05-2010 10:05AM

darkman2 wrote: »

I agree and im all for the peaceful protesters. Problem is this is Dublin we are talking about where scumbags only need an excuse like this for free shoes from footlocker!

When has that ever happened in dublin before?

100gSoma · 18-05-2010 10:08AM

"Blood alone moves the wheels of history."

Well, figuratively speaking I think we can take that quote to mean that bending over an lubing up does NOT move the wheels of history. :cool:

Mr. Presentable · 18-05-2010 10:12AM

Bambi wrote: »

it f***ing hilarious that people really think the international markets will only realise that our economy has gone down the sh***ter if we hold protests about it.

It's not the protests that are a problem, it's the accompanying anarchists, thugs and vandals.

I am put in mind of the antics during the Peace March a few years ago. A certain element will use a legitimate gathering as cover for their own agenda.

Mr Benevolent · 18-05-2010 10:12AM

General Zod wrote: »

When has that ever happened in dublin before?

Three or four years ago.

100gSoma · 18-05-2010 10:55AM

nipplenuts wrote: »

It's not the protests that are a problem, it's the accompanying anarchists, thugs and vandals.
I am put in mind of the antics during the Peace March a few years ago. A certain element will use a legitimate gathering as cover for their own agenda.

I suppose the difference is, I am less principled such is my distaste with the current government and their total disconnection with the collective public feeling. I will support (within reason) whatever means necessary to get this government out. A peaceful protest is not worth anything. A burning car or a scuffle gets a lot more press attention AND government attention. sad but true.

Dyr · 18-05-2010 10:57AM

nipplenuts wrote: »

It's not the protests that are a problem, it's the accompanying anarchists, thugs and vandals.

tbh I don't think we can prevent the gardai and press from attending :pac:

MagicSean · 18-05-2010 10:57AM

100gSoma wrote: »

I suppose the difference is, I am less principled such is my distaste with the current government and their total disconnection with the collective public feeling. I will support (within reason) whatever means necessary to get this government out. A peaceful protest is not worth anything. A burning car or a scuffle gets a lot more press attention AND government attention. sad but true.

And whos car will you burn?

prinz · 18-05-2010 10:59AM

General Zod wrote: »

When has that ever happened in dublin before?

In addition, the windows of several businesses, including Foot Locker, Schuh, and Ulster Bank near O'Connell Bridge, were smashed and at least one shop (Footlocker shoe shop) was looted

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Dublin_riots

Fuhrer · 18-05-2010 11:07AM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Considering your complete opposition to protests, may I ask when YOU intend to do? Other than drop your trousers and bend over?

ahh, what do you know. More "If you dont protest then you're bending over and taking it" from the typical public sector gimmie gimmie gimmie lot.

Heres the real truth, I want more cuts, I want your wages slashed to the bone, the dole halved and the majority of PS admin jobs privatized. I hope the guards can have some fun smashing a few heads open at this "Protest"

Lux23 · 18-05-2010 11:09AM

I don't think this lot are genuinely upset by NAMA or the bank bailout and if they really wanted to get people out on the streets why have they taken so long to get organised. The economic tide is turning and numbers brokers and independent economists including the EU experts have said Ireland will emerge from the recession in Q3/Q4 and that the economy is likely to grow 2/3% next year. We are still looking at cuts and there will be more unemployment but these guys are way behind the times.

I am as angry as the next Irish citizen about how the banks have been bailed out while ordinary hard working people lose their jobs and homes but I don't see how storming the Dáil will make things any better. They have every right to protest but violence will win them no sympathy, there are tens of thousands of desperate people around Ireland who would love to run riot but they have more respect for their country and its taxpayers to create even more expense for them.

General Zod · 18-05-2010 11:12AM

Confab wrote: »

Three or four years ago.

There was no looting during the Love Ulster riot. I won't diagree that one of tha major reasons for the trouble was that a load of scumbags to the chance to wreck thge gaff, but there wasn't any actual looting done.

100gSoma · 18-05-2010 11:12AM

k_mac wrote: »

And whos car will you burn?

I've purchased a scrapper for 500euro to make my point. It's even NCT'd. I will then pay for the clean up the next day.

Kintarō Hattori · 18-05-2010 11:13AM

When is this protest supposed to start?

Fuhrer · 18-05-2010 11:14AM

General Zod wrote: »

There was no looting during the Love Ulster riot. I won't diagree that one of tha major reasons for the trouble was that a load of scumbags to the chance to wreck thge gaff, but there wasn't any actual looting done.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2006/0726/1153813780599_pf.html

MagicSean · 18-05-2010 11:15AM

100gSoma wrote: »

I've purchased a scrapper for 500euro to make my point. It's even NCT'd. I will then pay for the clean up the next day.

No you'll happily burn some poor minimum wage paid workers car. You'll smash up shops and attack random people for no reason. Who can forget the "orange-bastard" Charlie Bird attack at the Dublin riots. That's mob intelligence for you and thats why violent protest doesn't work.

Krusader · 18-05-2010 11:16AM

Fuhrer wrote: »

ahh, what do you know. More "If you dont protest then you're bending over and taking it" from the typical public sector gimmie gimmie gimmie lot.

Heres the real truth, I want more cuts, I want your wages slashed to the bone, the dole halved and the majority of PS admin jobs privatized. I hope the guards can have some fun smashing a few heads open at this "Protest"

Brian Cowen is that you?

General Zod · 18-05-2010 11:17AM

Fuhrer wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2006/0726/1153813780599_pf.html

Thanks for a proper cite that wasn't wikipedia.

Fuhrer · 18-05-2010 11:18AM

Crosáidí wrote: »

Brian Cowen is that you?

Yeah it is, how are you buddy?

100gSoma · 18-05-2010 11:19AM

Fuhrer wrote: »

ahh, what do you know. More "If you dont protest then you're bending over and taking it" from the typical public sector gimmie gimmie gimmie lot.

As I said, normal private sector workers are impotent and thus will actually rely on the public sector unions to bring down this government. That does not mean I want their wages upped. but hey, if they can use their significant numbers and influence to get cowen et al out, great job. bigger picture etc.

Lux23 wrote: »

I don't think this lot are genuinely upset by NAMA or the bank bailout and if they really wanted to get people out on the streets why have they taken so long to get organised.

your right. It's not all about NAMA. It's a generalized social unease brought about by the fact that the poor people of this country are bailing out the rich. People don't need to understand the maths or accounting involved to understand that the bankers and developers who crated this crisis are still living 5 star lives and playing golf in Vilamoura while the average joe has seen his income cut, or worse his job evaporate and his mortgage rates go up and a raft of other taxes be imposed on him. what did average Joe do to deserve this. Nothing! The banks threw money at him. 100% loans etc. go on Joe, have some money. and now he has to pay back 81 billion of bad debts? It's typical robin hood rich raping the poor stuff. People don't know the details but they know their backside is sore.... that is all.

prinz · 18-05-2010 11:19AM

General Zod wrote: »

There was no looting during the Love Ulster riot. I won't diagree that one of tha major reasons for the trouble was that a load of scumbags to the chance to wreck thge gaff, but there wasn't any actual looting done.

Oh really...

18. Ion Brodescu (24), Summerhill, Dublin.

The former Moldovan trainee police officer was given a one-year sentence for burglary of two Dublin city centre shops during the riots.

25. A 16-year-old from Georgia who took part in looting during the riots was given an eight-month suspended sentence, on condition of good behaviour. The teenager was living in Ireland without any parents. [Was 17 when charged, 16 at the time of incident.]

26. A 16-year-old homeless boy was charged with taking part in looting during the riots. He was charged with burglary of the Footlocker Shop on O'Connell Street but the judge directed he be released without charge

http://www.tribune.ie/archive/article/2009/jan/11/the-26-who-were-convicted-for-their-part-in-the-20/

Behind the lines of the rioters, looting broke out. Although I didn't observe it, witnesses report that several women from the inner city were seen filling bags full of shoes from the shops and engaging in a bit of 'discount shopping'. The police were not even nearly in a position to do anything about it.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/74528

Soon after, two or three youths starting hurling bricks at the Schuh shopfront. Within minutes the windows had been smashed in, with floods of rioters streaming in and looting the shop. Subsequently the front of Foot Locker was also kicked in with a small group of rioters pulling up steel barricades and slipping into the store.
Clothes and shoes from both of the shops was soon strewn across the street with one young boy - no older than 13 - leaving Schuh with two bags filled with shoes.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/how-an-ugly-and-organised-mob-fought-for-the-city-127098.html

Sounds like looting to me.

Fuhrer · 18-05-2010 11:20AM

100gSoma wrote: »

As I said, normal private sector workers are impotent and thus will actually rely on the public sector unions to bring down this government. That does not mean I want their wages upped. but hey, if they can use their significant numbers and influence to get cowen et al out, great job. bigger picture etc.

Ah, my mistake.

I forgot that Unions control the general election.

Fuhrer · 18-05-2010 11:21AM

100gSoma wrote: »

It's a generalized social unease brought about by the fact that the poor people of this country are bailing out the rich.

How much of the bailout money is coming from the poor do you reckon? Proportionately?

Banned Account · 18-05-2010 11:26AM

A protest will change nothing, we will all wake up tomorrow morning to the same old crap. The reason that the protest will change nothing is that it is (despite being billed as a pro-jobs protest) an anti - bailout/nama/government march. One of the speakers is a recent evictee protesting about her eviction.

All i hear and see about this protest and it's organisers is negative sentiment at the current situation, I see nothing positive, no alternatives to the status quo, just an excuse to have a mindless rant. I do realise that in a democracy, one is perfectly entitled to have a mindless rant, but don't get incensed when people get annoyed with you for being a ranting nuisance.

If all the time and effort out into organising and edfending this pointless event were to be put into creating a workable alternative to present to the people, you would have a lot more support, heck, I might even march with you to present the document to the government. I suspect though, that an alternative will not be found because no-one has come up with a palatable one.

"We have to be wary of too facile explanations: too many begin with the excessive greed of the bankers. That may be true but it does not provide much of a basis for reform. Bankers acted greedily because they had incentives and opportunities to do so, and that is what has to be changed. Besides, the basis of capitalism is the pursuit of profit: should we blame the bankers for doing (perhaps a little bit better) what everyone in the market economy is supposed to be doing?" - Joseph Stiglitz, from Freefall

MagicSean · 18-05-2010 11:28AM

None. Its the suckers in the middle who are bailing out the rich and poor.

Fuhrer · 18-05-2010 11:30AM

k_mac wrote: »

None. Its the suckers in the middle who are bailing out the rich and poor.

Is there anywhere that has a breakdown of where the tax will be taken from?

Id like to know, usually the people who complain about their tax being used to bail out banks are those who contribute little, nothing or simply take money out of the economy

Degsy · 18-05-2010 11:31AM

Fuhrer wrote: »

ahh, what do you know. More "If you dont protest then you're bending over and taking it" from the typical public sector gimmie gimmie gimmie lot.

Heres the real truth, I want more cuts, I want your wages slashed to the bone, the dole halved and the majority of PS admin jobs privatized. I hope the guards can have some fun smashing a few heads open at this "Protest"

Ah but you have no power to demand anything..the Public Sector unions have a membership in the hundreds of thousands..what support do you have?
How do you think you can negotiate cuts with the govt?
you're angry internet man..but nobody is listening to you.

ScumLord · 18-05-2010 11:33AM

darkman2 wrote: »

I am very concerned about the damage a riot or anything resembling it beamed around the world would do to Ireland - we will be immediately put into the dangerous category with Greece (the British press in particular would be salavating sensing the blood of another EU state) and the consequences would be far far worse then what even the most irresponsible and stupid top bank officials have done to this country.

But that's our job in Europe, we go out with the Italians and the Greek to distract the rest of the world while the Germans and other boring counties come up with some super plan to get us out of the mess, we're like Europes Murdock of the A team.

What are we going to do with the sh*t stirrers after tomorrow?

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