Custom .223 Re-Barrel

Tackleberrywho · 12-05-2010 01:35AM #1

Folks
I'm going to re-barrel my .223 Remington 700 VSSF II.

Question what is the best twist weight to go with?

I still want to shoot Foxes and long range bunnies and I would like to stay with 55grain Hornady moly ammo.
But if you Target guys can educate a hunter like me by all means.

Do any of the Target community cross purpose on varminting lines?
I was looking at 24 inch barrel maybe a kreiger 1/14 twist to stabilize the 55grain more.

Will this set up work? Or are my twist rates off?

thanks
TB

customrifle · 12-05-2010 03:56AM

Hi Tackleberry, a 1/9 twist would let you shoot from the low 50gr to the high 60 grainers in the 223 I had a tikka tactical in 223 with this twist and it loved the 53 and 55 gr hornadys and the 64gr federals. I take it that Figgy will be doin the work for you he s done couple rifles for me and they unreal accurate.The 22/250 he did will do consistant sub half inch groups at 300 yards. Give me shout if you fancy shot out of them i do be back in athlone good bit herself is in collage there.

Tackleberrywho · 12-05-2010 09:53AM

customrifle wrote: »

Hi Tackleberry, a 1/9 twist would let you shoot from the low 50gr to the high 60 grainers in the 223 I had a tikka tactical in 223 with this twist and it loved the 53 and 55 gr hornadys and the 64gr federals. I take it that Figgy will be doin the work for you he s done couple rifles for me and they unreal accurate.The 22/250 he did will do consistant sub half inch groups at 300 yards. Give me shout if you fancy shot out of them i do be back in athlone good bit herself is in collage there.

customrifle wrote: »

Hi Tackleberry, a 1/9 twist would let you shoot from the low 50gr to the high 60 grainers in the 223 I had a tikka tactical in 223 with this twist and it loved the 53 and 55 gr hornadys and the 64gr federals. I take it that Figgy will be doin the work for you he's done couple rifles for me and they unreal accurate.The 22/250 he did will do consistant sub half inch groups at 300 yards. Give me shout if you fancy shot out of them i do be back in athlone good bit herself is in collage there.

Cool, yeah it is Figgy that is doin it. I have seen your 5 shot group @300 it's as the Yanks would say awesome!:D:D:D He has it on the door for all to see!!;)

That would be really cool CR about trying yours. I'd supply a box of 55grainer Hornady and see how she goes:D:D
Any pics of your rifles pre and post to give me an idea?
your thoughts on barrrel length too please! Short and thick or long and not so thick etc

I want to put a mod on it too, so I'd love to know if you use any Mod's on yours:):)

clivej · 12-05-2010 10:41AM

Tack with a 1 in 14 twist your limiting yourself to the lower weight heads, 50-55gr. The faster twist rates will get you shooting longer ranges and heavier heads. My CZ varmint 1-9 twist will shoot from 40gr up to about the 75gr weight. I only use 40gr to 55gr anyway.
Anything with more weight your need a 1-7 or 1-8 twist rate.

It wasn't me! · 12-05-2010 10:52AM

1:14" is a traditional twist for the .22-250 and the Swift, as they reach higher velocities, so you can have a slower twist to stabilise the same bullet. With a 24" barrel, you might be okay for anything up to about 55 or 60gr in a .223, but give yourself the extra legroom of a 1:12" or 1:9" for the comfort. Somewhere in the middle would be an excellent compromise, but I've seen clive shoot brilliant groups with 40gr in his 1:9", and it'll handle up to 75gr as well, so it's the best all-rounder I think.

Tackleberrywho · 12-05-2010 10:56AM

clivej wrote: »

Tack with a 1 in 14 twist your limiting yourself to the lower weight heads, 50-55gr. The faster twist rates will get you shooting longer ranges and heavier heads. My CZ varmint 1-9 twist will shoot from 40gr up to about the 75gr weight. I only use 40gr to 55gr anyway.
Anything with more weight your need a 1-7 or 1-8 twist rate.

Do you shoot over 300 metres with yours clive? How does 55grain in a fast twist group @300

I would prefer to use the 55grain ammo but to not limit myself to 55grain.
I have used 75grain ammo before in my Remmy 1/12 twist and they did not group well.

http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/RapidCat/catalog/pagetemplate.cfm?template=/RapidCat/common/viewPage.cfm&PageId=3390&CompanyId=1246

Kreiger are available in a huge range of twist rates between 5 and 14 so I have a lot of scope to work with, but that also makes decesion making harder:eek:

It wasn't me! · 12-05-2010 11:19AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=563oE6h9o1g

They're getting some good groups here shooting 80gr bullets from a .223 at 600 yards with irons. Twists are about 7.5-8", so a 9" will handle 75s, and well.

Tackleberrywho · 12-05-2010 11:35AM

It wasn't me! wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=563oE6h9o1g

They're getting some good groups here shooting 80gr bullets from a .223 at 600 yards with irons. Twists are about 7.5-8", so a 9" will handle 75s, and well.

I still want to use it for Varminting so i'm not sure on the heavier grain 75+ etc.

As is the point of aim between 0-200 is +/- 1.4 inches and down 7" @300

I'm not sure 600 is where i want to go as my reading is to date, to get a bullet to be stable at that range it's 100 & 200 are not great.

i have seen CR's 5 shot group @300 and it is very impressive with the .22-250
I'd be very happy if mine can do sub 1/2 inch @300 when re-barreled.

Does any of the target world guys use their rig's in the field for bunnies grey crow etc?

Also is 24" the only length for that calibre?
What are my options with twist and length combinations?
Rifle as is is long as it's currently 24" with a 5" Moderator

It wasn't me! · 12-05-2010 11:42AM

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I still want to use it for Varminting so i'm not sure on the heavier grain 75+ etc.

As is the point of aim between 0-200 is +/- 1.4 inches and down 7" @300

I'm not sure 600 is where i want to go as my reading is to date, to get a bullet to be stable at that range it's 100 & 200 are not great.

i have seen CR's 5 shot group @300 and it is very impressive with the .22-250
I'd be very happy if mine can do sub 1/2 inch @300 when re-barreled.

Does any of the target world guys use their rig's in the field for bunnies grey crow etc?

Also is 24" the only length for that calibre?
What are my options with twist and length combinations?
Rifle as is is long as it's currently 24" with a 5" Moderator

If you get a 1:9", like Clive's, it will stabilise 40gr rounds up to about 75gr, so you can use your 55gr or whatever you want for varminting, then still use the 75s or whatever suits you for long range target shooting. And there's no reason your 600 yard load won't shoot at 100 yards. In fact, if it won't shoot at 100, I wouldn't even go near a 600 yard range with it. 1/2" at 300m is about .15 MOA, so yeah, that's utterly exceptional.

Tackleberrywho · 12-05-2010 12:01PM

It wasn't me! wrote: »

If you get a 1:9", like Clive's, it will stabilise 40gr rounds up to about 75gr, so you can use your 55gr or whatever you want for varminting, then still use the 75s or whatever suits you for long range target shooting. And there's no reason your 600 yard load won't shoot at 100 yards. In fact, if it won't shoot at 100, I wouldn't even go near a 600 yard range with it. 1/2" at 300m is about .15 MOA, so yeah, that's utterly exceptional.

now the next question is barrel length and fluted or not fluted?
I like fluted barrels "Why I think they are mightee purdy"

I hear ya on the heat up faster/Cool down faster gig. I also hear ya on the stabilization of the barrel craic for the added rigidity.

I'd love to see a few pics of .223 success stories and a few pics of groups would be nice too:D:D:D

dwighet · 12-05-2010 01:10PM

26 inch tube and a 1 in 9 twist.....
Fluted to keep the weight down....
Keep the same contour as your rem barrel....

Tackleberrywho · 12-05-2010 01:28PM

dwighet wrote: »

26 inch tube and a 1 in 9 twist.....
Fluted to keep the weight down....
Keep the same contour as your rem barrel....

I like the way you are thinking, I just double checked, my current barrel is 26" so I could live with a slightly heavier rig.

Do you use yourself for varminting??

tomcat220t · 12-05-2010 01:45PM

As above ,26" fluted varmint barrel .All ya need now is get it done in .204

Tackleberrywho · 12-05-2010 01:57PM

tomcat220t wrote: »

As above ,26" fluted varmint barrel .All ya need now is get it done in .204

N'ah
.223 is what suits for now, no messing with licenses and forms keep its simple, just increase accuracy.

I was just looking at Remington.com and they chamber my rifle in .17 fireball in 1/9 twist (but why not the .223 in the same twist if it is so good?). I have a lot to learn about these twist rates in different calibres when I think about changing barrel and barrel lengths.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-vs-sf-ii.aspx

Action/Barrel Length Caliber Twist
Bolt 26" 17 Remington Fireball 9"
Bolt 26" 204 Ruger 12"
Bolt 26" 220 Swift 14"
Bolt 26" 223 Remington 12"
Bolt 26" 22-250 Remington 14"

dwighet · 12-05-2010 02:01PM

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I like the way you are thinking, I just double checked, my current barrel is 26" so I could live with a slightly heavier rig.

Do you use yourself for varminting??

I use a rem R-15 in 223...
But if I was to go a bolt gun It would be a 26 inch tube,hs presision stock,rem action trued,jewell trigger,nightforce nxs 5.5-22x50,third eye tactical rail and rings....
It would be a clone of my 300 win mag
But im happy enough with my r-15 for the time being...

It wasn't me! · 12-05-2010 02:05PM

There's a different twist rate in the .17 Fireball because it's a different calibre.

Tackleberrywho · 12-05-2010 02:08PM

dwighet wrote: »

I use a rem R-15 in 223...
But if I was to go a bolt gun It would be a 26 inch tube,hs presision stock,rem action trued,jewell trigger,nightforce nxs 5.5-22x50,third eye tactical rail and rings....
But I'm happy enough with my r-15 for the time being...

Well I have a Nightforce NXS 8-32x56, burris tactical mounts rings, Timney trigger 1.5lbs break and an ASE ULTRA. on a 26 inch fluted factory remmy

I'd love to just go that little bit further!

Getting her rebeded at the moment. That's what put the barrel into my head as I saw Figgy AKA Fergal White has a load of shiny barrels in stock

Tackleberrywho · 12-05-2010 02:10PM

It wasn't me! wrote: »

There's a different twist rate in the .17 Fireball because it's a different calibre.

Well that I know Sherlock.
I'm not that thick usually!:D

I want to know if the 1/9 is so good why don't Remington use it on the .223 VSSF II?

It wasn't me! · 12-05-2010 02:14PM

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Well that I know Sherlock.
I'm not that thick usually!:D

I want to know if the 1/9 is so good why don't Remington use it on the .223 VSSF II?

Because it's a varminting rig, not a target gun. If it were designed to shoot heavier bullets, it would have a faster twist. The reason they're common in Europe and not in the US is the fact that people over here have been using them for small deer species like roe, and are familiar with chucking heavier bullets from a .22 centrefire to do so. That's why Tikka and co. offer the option of the faster twist, while US companies tend not to, with fast twist .22 cal barrels an aftermarket product for the most part. Savage is a departure from the norm on this, but they obviously view their varminting guns as entry-level target rifles as well.

Tackleberrywho · 12-05-2010 02:25PM

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Because it's a varminting rig, not a target gun. If it were designed to shoot heavier bullets, it would have a faster twist. The reason they're common in Europe and not in the US is the fact that people over here have been using them for small deer species like roe, and are familiar with chucking heavier bullets from a .22 centrefire to do so. That's why Tikka and co. offer the option of the faster twist, while US companies tend not to, with fast twist .22 cal barrels an aftermarket product for the most part. Savage is a departure from the norm on this, but they obviously view their varminting guns as entry-level target rifles as well.

Well that would make more sense, friends of mine Bow hunt in the US just bring a .357mag or .44mag with them in case they meet critters that want to annoy them, wolverine etc. A very different strategy than Europe so the varmint .223 round would make sense using the 55grain in that case.

So a 1/9 is looking good in 26" Fluted.
Now is Kreiger my best option. I hear there is another make the name escapes me that are from Oz are just as good if not better.

I'd still like to hear of a custom .223 twist conversion Varmint/target success story.

It wasn't me! · 12-05-2010 02:28PM

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Well that would make more sense, friends of mine Bow hunt in the US just bring a .357mag or .44mag with them in case they meet critters that want to annoy them, wolverine etc. A very different strategy than Europe so the varmint .223 round would make sense using the 55grain in that case.

So a 1/9 is looking good in 26" Fluted.
Now is Kreiger my best option. I hear there is another make the name escapes me that are from Oz are just as good if not better.

I'd still like to hear of a custom .223 twist conversion Varmint/target success story.

You thinking of Tru-Flite? Kiwi if I'm not mistaken. Be careful with that distinction!

Krieger, Lilja, Lothar Walther, Border, Shilen and a host of others all make a top-notch barrel. Hard to pick a best of the bunch really. Do you intend going stainless or chrom-moly?

customrifle · 12-05-2010 02:42PM

Hi TB, my 250 started off same as yours, a remy vssf II, I was just never that impressed with how it shot as a factory gun, more disappointed to be honest. Thats when I spoke the Fig about rebarrel. So he blueprinted the action and put on a 1/11 twist border barrel 1.25" in diameter.
Initially I had rifle sitting in an accuracy int stock but wanted that for another project so Figgy opened up the barrel channel on the hs stock from the vssf and dropped 250 into it. I have to say it looks way better:) and is much lighter for carrying in the field. I dont use a mod on it but man im thinkin about coz the 250 is loud on a calm night:eek:.
As for the group on target thats a 3 shot one I was thinkin that day about sending another couple into it but was gettin excited when i saw all holes together and thought id f#*k it up ha ha. Since then ive gotten some "better" ammo which would be more consistant. im waiting on some thats been measured to chamber perfectly in rifle so it ll be 10 shot groups ill be goin for then and goin to try her out to 600.
I can drop it into Fig anytime you like man and you can inspect it youself. One thing id say is if you want just a target gun the full weight barrel is great but if your going doin alot of walking with it then get the barrel with a remington varmint contour.

Tackleberrywho · 12-05-2010 02:46PM

It wasn't me! wrote: »

You thinking of Tru-Flite? Kiwi if I'm not mistaken. Be careful with that distinction! Krieger, Lilja, Lothar Walther, Border, Shilen and a host of others all make a top-notch barrel. Hard to pick a best of the bunch really. Do you intend going stainless or chrom-moly?

Don't know, It's a whole new world and price thing.
Its a trueflight alright yes KIWI now that you say it I remember.

Chrome-Moly I know nothing about not ever having one before.
I see they do not seem to offer a 1/9
.224 centrefire 1-7" 6 groove, 1-8", 1-12" up to 30"

I've e-mailed them for some feedback.

Tackleberrywho · 12-05-2010 02:53PM

customrifle wrote: »

Hi TB, my 250 started off same as yours, a remy vssf II, I was just never that impressed with how it shot as a factory gun, more disappointed to be honest. Thats when I spoke the Fig about rebarrel. So he blueprinted the action and put on a 1/11 twist border barrel 1.25" in diameter.
Initially I had rifle sitting in an accuracy int stock but wanted that for another project so Figgy opened up the barrel channel on the hs stock from the vssf and dropped 250 into it. I have to say it looks way better:) and is much lighter for carrying in the field. I dont use a mod on it but man im thinkin about coz the 250 is loud on a calm night:eek:.
As for the group on target thats a 3 shot one I was thinkin that day about sending another couple into it but was gettin excited when i saw all holes together and thought id f#*k it up ha ha. Since then ive gotten some "better" ammo which would be more consistant. im waiting on some thats been measured to chamber perfectly in rifle so it ll be 10 shot groups ill be goin for then and goin to try her out to 600.
I can drop it into Fig anytime you like man and you can inspect it youself. One thing id say is if you want just a target gun the full weight barrel is great but if your going doin alot of walking with it then get the barrel with a remington varmint contour.

I think i will follow your lead to the letter. My rifle is heavy enough as standard. I might be in Figgy's this evening if you are around. I know he is on the range today but with them showers of rain falling that could be knocked on the head!

I like burstin grey's and mag's rabbits and foxes, but I might venture to the range every now and then.
I'm not big on ranges as its so hard to get to do what I want to do. I'll go moderated so when zeroing its very annoying when .270's or .30-06's are fired beside when all my baby does is whip crack:D:D

Although I sometimes go mid week to counteract this.

customrifle · 12-05-2010 02:57PM

I work nights man ill leave it with him at w end for you to take look at if that suits

Tackleberrywho · 12-05-2010 02:59PM

customrifle wrote: »

I work nights man ill leave it with him at w end for you to take look at if that suits

Cool, I have to call in Sat evening anyway!
I;m off work at the minute, I have 1st exam Sat eve, I keep finding myself spending more time on boards though these days

:D:D

clivej · 12-05-2010 04:14PM

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Do you shoot over 300 metres with yours clive? How does 55grain in a fast twist group @300

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

now the .........................

I'd love to see a few pics of .223 success stories and a few pics of groups would be nice too:D:D:D

OK Tack here goes.

Factory Rifle and Factory ammo from the bench.
Federal V-Shock 40gr BT @300m

Americal Eagle 50gr Flat Base HP @ 300. 1" x 3 shot group is the best yet.

I have fitted the Burris Exstream mounts to the CZ varmint have to zero now.

And test out the new LED Cree P4 220 lumen torch. Good out to 150-200m from the back garden.

Tackleberrywho · 12-05-2010 04:21PM

clivej wrote: »

OK Tack here goes.

Factory Rifle and Factory ammo from the bench.
Federal V-Shock 40gr BT @300m
Nice Rig Clive, Did you consider a fancy smancy barrel?

I'm hoping to improve on that with a custom barrel. It should in Theory anyway, practice may be different:D
See in background fellow boards customrifle .22-250 5 shot group on the fox Target also at 300.

clivej · 12-05-2010 04:32PM

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

clivej wrote: »

OK Tack here goes.

Factory Rifle and Factory ammo from the bench.
Federal V-Shock 40gr BT @300m
Nice Rig Clive, Did you consider a fancy smancy barrel?

I'm hoping to improve on that with a custom barrel. It should in Theory anyway, practice may be different:D
See in background fellow boards customrifle .22-250 5 shot group on the fox Target also at 300.

Nice Rig Clive, Did you consider a fancy smancy barrel?
"NO"

See in background fellow boards customrifle .22-250 5 shot group on the fox Target also at 300.
And the difference at 300m is what 1/2" and €2000 not for me I'm sorry to say.

Tackleberrywho · 12-05-2010 04:36PM

clivej wrote: »

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Nice Rig Clive, Did you consider a fancy smancy barrel?
"NO"

See in background fellow boards customrifle .22-250 5 shot group on the fox Target also at 300.
And the difference at 300m is what 1/2" and €2000 not for me I'm sorry to say.

who said €2k?? more like €650 or there abouts Clive. I'm not made of money!

I'm just trying to cut my cloth to my measure.
I rate that as a fair price to rub shoulders with some of the target boys accuracy

clivej · 12-05-2010 04:48PM

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

clivej wrote: »

who said €2k?? more like €650 or there abouts Clive. I'm not made of money!

I'm just trying to cut my cloth to my measure.
I rate that as a fair price to rub shoulders with some of the target boys accuracy

I know but at 300m and 1/2" the fox won't know the difference of what hit him will it.

You need to think about what your gona use it for Hunting or Target. Then you will be able to cut your cloth better.

:eek::eek: COS you can't cut it both ways. :eek::eek:

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Custom .223 Re-Barrel

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