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What is this???

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Comments

  • #92
    Vinoveritas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 64 ✭✭Vinoveritas


    Attol wrote: »
    ......
    by getting themselves involved in this campaign they've instantly made themselves very unpopular tbh.

    I think you will find that this discussion/debate/action is not about winning a popularity contest. It is about fair and reasonable access to services through the medium of our native tongue!

    The Irish language community have taken a stand for something that they feel passionate about, and it must be argued that their actions took courage and commitment. Instead of "shooting the messengers" the SU should be big enough to look at the actions (or lack of) that allowed this situation to reach boiling point. And yes both sides could have handled the matter in a more judicious manner - but sure it is always easy be wise in hindsight!!

    And no, I personally am not an Irish speaker - but I would like the choice to be, and I would like to think that all of us who are interested in developing our Irish language skills are not limited in our choice of 3rd level college.

    To my thinking prospective students of DCU who are interested in maintaining their Irish language skills may be wise to look to other colleges that look after the needs of their Irish speaking community i.e. Trinity http://www.tcd.ie/gaeloifig/en/

    Enough said!!


  • #93
    irish_boy90
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 589 ✭✭✭irish_boy90


    Vinoveritas wrote: »
    I think you will find that this discussion/debate/action is not about winning a popularity contest. It is about fair and reasonable access to services through the medium of our native tongue!

    The Irish language community have taken a stand for something that they feel passionate about, and it must be argued that their actions took courage and commitment. Instead of "shooting the messengers" the SU should be big enough to look at the actions (or lack of) that allowed this situation to reach boiling point. And yes both sides could have handled the matter in a more judicious manner - but sure it is always easy be wise in hindsight!!

    And no, I personally am not an Irish speaker - but I would like the choice to be, and I would like to think that all of us who are interested in developing our Irish language skills are not limited in our choice of 3rd level college.

    To my thinking prospective students of DCU who are interested in maintaining their Irish language skills may be wise to look to other colleges that look after the needs of their Irish speaking community i.e. Trinity http://www.tcd.ie/gaeloifig/en/

    Enough said!!

    If you want to learn Irish go take classes, it's not up to the SU to teach it to you. If you all want more irish on campus get involved and hold your own Irish events with societies instead of trying to force it upon everyone.


  • #94
    gizmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    Vinoveritas wrote: »
    And no, I personally am not an Irish speaker - but I would like the choice to be, and I would like to think that all of us who are interested in developing our Irish language skills are not limited in our choice of 3rd level college.

    To my thinking prospective students of DCU who are interested in maintaining their Irish language skills may be wise to look to other colleges that look after the needs of their Irish speaking community i.e. Trinity http://www.tcd.ie/gaeloifig/en/

    Enough said!!

    The links you have provided to the services in Trinity have nothing to do with the SU so it is completely irrelevant in this context.

    Also, regarding that last link...
    The student Cumann Gaelach is the largest student Irish society in the country- over 1,000 students registered as members in 2007-2008.
    How many members does our CG have?


  • #95
    llortaton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭llortaton


    gizmo wrote: »

    How many members does our CG have?

    190.


  • #96
    g5fd6ow0hseima
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,787 ✭✭✭g5fd6ow0hseima


    irish_boy90 wrote: »
    If you want to learn Irish go take classes, it's not up to the SU to teach it to you. If you all want more irish on campus get involved and hold your own Irish events with societies instead of trying to force it upon everyone.

    The logic behind this whole thing seems to be that if the SU make some token gesture towards the Irish language, it will somehow help to spread the language throughout the college. How this will happen, I dont know. Maybe there's a hope that students (who already have enough on their plate) might rekindle their passion upon seeing the odd bi-lingual SU poster. It's nice to see optimism.


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  • #97
    Tiroskan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭Tiroskan


    Vinoveritas wrote: »
    The Irish language community have taken a stand for something that they feel passionate about, and it must be argued that their actions took courage and commitment.

    Uh, no, they started a facebook page. I know all about standing up for what you believe in; I went to a gaelscoil, which had to be set up and founded by the community and then supported for years by donations until they finally got enough money to build a new school, until which we were looked down on and sneered at by the other, better off schools because we had no facilities and we used to get our uniforms dirty at lunch because the grounds we had to play in were in bits. That's courage and commitment.

    If the people who started the facebook page and joined were that enthusiastic and interested, they'd be out there getting **** done instead of whinging.


  • #98
    maitiu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭maitiu


    Tiroskan wrote: »
    If the people who started the facebook page and joined were that enthusiastic and interested, they'd be out there getting **** done instead of whinging.

    The facebook page is merely a means of promoting the campaign, there's no point in 'getting **** done' if no one knows about it.


  • #99
    Hauk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 588 ✭✭✭Hauk


    We should rejoin the Commonwealth.


  • #100
    mehfesto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭mehfesto


    There's an interview with them here. Good read, too.


  • #101
    Vinoveritas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 64 ✭✭Vinoveritas


    mehfesto wrote: »
    There's an interview with them here. Good read, too.

    I agree...well worth checking out!!:)


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  • #102
    hots
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭hots


    As a non-Irish speaker i guess i'm not exactly clued in at all in this debate, but I've read as much as possible from both sides (i thought the interview link above was quite interesting) but i can't get over the fact that Irish as a language is dying out, and probably for good reason...
    Of course culture is important but surely promoting having a *true* second language would be more beneficial to students in reality? If every student say spoke French/German/Spanish/Japanese or one of the likes at least it would be useful as a career prospect.
    The use of Irish in adult life, imo, is generally out of sympathy for the language. Would it be more efficient to do it in English? Probably, but we'd better keep trying to keep it alive for the sake of it.
    By all means the IrishSoc's should hold events and i think they do very well for it but I don't believe it should have any more priority over and other languages. Yes Irish is our "first" language, but is it really??


  • #103
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    hobbit of the shire wrote: »
    Of course culture is important but surely promoting having a *true* second language would be more beneficial to students in reality? If every student say spoke French/German/Spanish/Japanese or one of the likes at least it would be useful as a career prospect.

    Yeah right. Everyone in the world should just speak English. Those languages will soon be obsolete. A huge number of people in France, Germany, Spain and Japan can speak English, so surely it would make sense for them to just abandon their native languages and adopt English instead? After all, they should consider their career prospects!
    hobbit of the shire wrote:
    Yes Irish is our "first" language, but is it really??

    No, we've already established that it's not your first language unless you use it more than any other.


  • #104
    g5fd6ow0hseima
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,787 ✭✭✭g5fd6ow0hseima


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yeah right. Everyone in the world should just speak English. Those languages will soon be obsolete. A huge number of people in France, Germany, Spain and Japan can speak English, so surely it would make sense for them to just abandon their native languages and adopt English instead? After all, they should consider their career prospects!

    How can you compare the likes of those countries to Ireland? Both French and Spanish are spoken on three continents. The influence of the English
    language on the domestic populations is not as encroaching as you might imagine. Everybody in these countries speaks their native tongue as their first language. Remember - they are learning English out of necessity, and that's all English is to them - imperative.

    Yeah, it would be great to speak Irish, but surely you will agree there are more important languages to learn? Personally I see little practical usage with the Irish language, so I beg the question, are we learning it for the sake of it?


  • #105
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Alexa Cold Treasurer wrote: »
    How can you compare the likes of those countries to Ireland? Both French and Spanish are spoken on three continents. The influence of the English
    language on the domestic populations is not as encroaching as you might imagine. Everybody in these countries speaks their native tongue as their first language. Remember - they are learning English out of necessity, and that's all English is to them - imperative. Yeah, it would be great to speak Irish, but surely you will agree there are more important languages to learn? Personally I see little practical usage with the Irish language, so I beg the question, are we learning it for the sake of it?

    I was deliberately exaggerating. :pac:

    However, I can see the logic in my facetiousness. If you really think about it, the only language anyone should bother learning is English. Eventually, all languages except one will become extinct - English is the most likely candidate for natural selection.

    The state teaches it for the sake of it and most people learn Irish because they are forced to do so by the state, but some people genuinely like the language and would prefer to use it instead of English.


  • #106
    mehfesto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭mehfesto


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I was deliberately exaggerating. :pac:

    Eventually, all languages except one will become extinct - English is the most likely candidate for natural selection.

    What's that based on???


  • #107
    irish_boy90
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 589 ✭✭✭irish_boy90


    mehfesto wrote: »
    What's that based on???

    ..The world is becoming smaller, its easier than ever to talk to people all over the world. If you don't think this will affect languages you are a fool.


  • #108
    Vinoveritas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 64 ✭✭Vinoveritas


    Deleted User wrote: »
    ... If you really think about it, the only language anyone should bother learning is English. Eventually, all languages except one will become extinct - English is the most likely candidate for natural selection....

    Based on the above argument we shall all need to invest in a good chinese dictionary, as there are more than one billion chinese speakers in the world versus half a billion English speakers!!

    In a hundred ++ years from now will we have English speaking students lobbying to have their voices heard in a predominantly chinese speaking culture!! 可笑


  • #109
    mehfesto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭mehfesto


    irish_boy90 wrote: »
    ..The world is becoming smaller, its easier than ever to talk to people all over the world. If you don't think this will affect languages you are a fool.

    I'm not doubting globalization has had and will have an influence on language.
    I'm just questioning the lengths it will go. I seriously doubt that Spanish, Mandarin, Urdu will just become extinct because of trade and industry.

    So you're suggesting billions of people will just drop their native tongue in favour for English as is suggested?

    iu por Esperanto?


  • #110
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Vinoveritas wrote: »
    Based on the above argument we shall all need to invest in a good chinese dictionary, as there are more than one billion chinese speakers in the world versus half a billion English speakers!!

    In a hundred ++ years from now will we have English speaking students lobbying to have their voices heard in a predominantly chinese speaking culture!! 可笑

    English has between 0.5 and 1.8b speakers. Chinese languages have ~1.6b. However, English is the most commonly used language in science, business, entertainment media and on the Internet. Additionally, everyone wants to speak English because it's the language of the most powerful greatest nation on Earth, the United States!

    Ohhh say can you see...
    mehfesto wrote:
    So you're suggesting billions of people will just drop their native tongue in favour for English as is suggested?

    Ireland did just that.


  • #111
    Scráib
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 593 ✭✭✭Scráib


    For some reason when you put the topics of 'Irishness' and The Irish Language on the internet it always degenerates into a pretty heated and ridiculous debate pretty fast.

    Here's my two cents: DCU SU doesn't need an Irish Language Officer, the Union is there to represent every student as a group and not individual sub groups individually. The clubs and socs end is there to do that by providing an outlet for it.

    This brings me to my next point: The Cumann Gaelach. This soc is there to promote Irish Culture. That being the language, the craic, the likes of traditional music (Is TradSoc still around?) sessions and all things good about Ireland and the Irish. If you want to promote the language then do it through this group. Yes it has it's issues but of all the socs in DCU it has the most potential, I feel, for being the best one out there.

    That said it's not without it's problems. These days no-one who isn't in Fiontar will go near it, because everyone thinks it's a clique. I should know, three years ago when I was in DCU I was on the committee a few times and that was always the main complaint by non-members about us. Of course it's hard not to be a clique when no-one who isn't Fiontar will approach the group. It's a catch-22.

    As a final point: I like the nods to Irish around the campus, bilingual signs etc. are important symbols. Maybe lose the SU officer but make some effort to clearly identify DCU as a proper Irish college.


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  • #112
    mehfesto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭mehfesto


    Deleted User wrote: »

    Ireland did just that.

    Choosing to and being forced to are entirely different things.
    And they're on vastly different scales - a million Irish don't compare to 1/3 of the world speaking Spanish, Urdu and Mandarin.

    Anyway, it's all besides the original point


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