Are all degrees created equal?

The Big Red Button · 08-05-2010 04:27PM

I can only speak from my own experiences here.

I started (and dropped out of) degree courses in both TCD and NUIG, before finishing a Business Studies degree course last year in Sligo IT. I found the standard of lecturing to be far higher in Sligo IT than in the other two places - there really was no comparison at all. And yes, the course had more of a practical element to it, with lots of emphasis on continuous assessment and project work. Also, I did a six-month work placement programme as part of my course, which I wouldn't have had the opportunity to do if I'd stuck with the courses in TCD or NUIG.

I was offered a good few interviews (and positions) in final year, with both smaller firms and with some of the biggest graduate employers in the country. I found that the interviewers were far more interested in my work experience, extra-cirricular activities and in my knowledge and opinions of the current business environment, rather than in the details of my course. My work experience seemed to be the most important thing, though ... I doubt I'd have even been offered the interviews if it hadn't been for the work placement I'd done.

I know that this is purely anecdotal evidence, but in my opinion, the college from which you got your degree really shouldn't hold you back in your chosen career if you did a relevant course and got a decent final degree mark in it. If you are convincing enough in your CVs/application forms, you'll get the employers interested and you will get asked for interview. Similarly, I agree that having TCD/UCD/wherever on your CV might get you to the interview stage more easily, but it's not going to guarantee you a job offer once you get that far.

El Siglo · 08-05-2010 05:06PM

I'm going to discuss two different academics I came across, this is just my opinion so don't take it as gospel!;) I'm hoping to start a PhD in Queen's in September, my supervisor did is undergrad at Keele, MSc at Salford and PhD at Reading. Now, he's easily one of the most respected academics and scientists in his field. He's unbelievably well connected and has written over a hundred peer reviewed articles.
When I was working in as an activity leader in London two summers ago my main boss was an English teacher in Italy. He did his undergrad at Christ Church Oxford and his PhD at King's College Cambridge. He's written feck all article because twenty years ago he gave up on everything, left his marriage and went to live in Italy teaching English with a TEFL Cert. He's making money and is also well connected.
The point of these two examples is, the one who went to the so called "unknown colleges" actually made use of his qualifications and has given back more than he's gotten out of them. The other Oxbridge graduate has pretty much pissed away the education he got and is working in a job that doesn't even require a degree.
Ranking colleges and all of this stuff is ridiculous, if you are willing to work and go the extra mile, it doesn't matter whether you went to TCD or NUIG because all these places are really is a pile of buildings, bricks, computers and labs. Some places will have certain pieces of equipment, but that's why you collaborate with one another.

Openmp · 08-05-2010 06:10PM

University education is not about the coursework, it's the state of mind that you acquire after 3 or 4 years being immersed alongside bright people and being intellectually guided by even brighter people. It's also about the social network.

Trinity is the best university in Ireland because it attracts the best. The intricacies of the coursework is comparable to that in other institutions, but the state of mind, the experience and the prestige ain't.

This idea that a senior lecturer in Tipp Inst is paid the same as a senior lecturer at Trinity is a load of politically-driven egalitarian codswollop. But Trinity compensates for it in that you are in the heart of an intellectual and social network that you just won't get anywhere else in the country.

We're not all the same. Get over it.

The prevailing tone of this thread is that universities exist to serve the needs of the economy. This is only part of their role. I'd suggest reading John Henry Newman's "The Idea of a University". If you want to get a qualification, go attend any of the ITs dotted around the county and go home at 5 pm every evening to watch TV, tend to your interests in tattoos or whatever floats your boat. If you want an education, go to a university with a good reputation for attracting and retaining the best.

MagicMarker · 08-05-2010 06:13PM

Openmp wrote: »

University education is not about the coursework, it's the state of mind that you acquire after 3 or 4 years being immersed alongside bright people and being intellectually guided by even brighter people. It's also about the social network.

Trinity is the best university in Ireland because it attracts the best. The intricacies of the coursework is comparable to that in other institutions, but the state of mind, the experience and the prestige ain't.

This idea that a senior lecturer in Tipp Inst is paid the same as a senior lecturer at Trinity is a load of politically-driven egalitarian codswollop. But Trinity compensates for it in that you are in the heart of an intellectual and social network that you just won't get anywhere else in the country.

We're not all the same. Get over it.

The prevailing tone of this thread is that universities exist to serve the needs of the economy. This is only part of their role. I'd suggest reading John Henry Newman's "The Idea of a University". If you want to get a qualification, go attend any of the ITs dotted around the county and go home at 5 pm every evening to watch TV, tend to your interests in tattoos or whatever floats your boat. If you want an education, go to a university with a good reputation for attracting and retaining the best.

Arse.

epgc3fyqirnbsx · 08-05-2010 06:15PM

Openmp wrote: »

University education is not about the coursework, it's the state of mind that you acquire after 3 or 4 years being immersed alongside bright people and being intellectually guided by even brighter people. It's also about the social network.

Trinity is the best university in Ireland because it attracts the best. The intricacies of the coursework is comparable to that in other institutions, but the state of mind, the experience and the prestige ain't.

This idea that a senior lecturer in Tipp Inst is paid the same as a senior lecturer at Trinity is a load of politically-driven egalitarian codswollop. But Trinity compensates for it in that you are in the heart of an intellectual and social network that you just won't get anywhere else in the country.

We're not all the same. Get over it.

The prevailing tone of this thread is that universities exist to serve the needs of the economy. This is only part of their role. I'd suggest reading John Henry Newman's "The Idea of a University". If you want to get a qualification, go attend any of the ITs dotted around the county and go home at 5 pm every evening to watch TV, tend to your interests in tattoos or whatever floats your boat. If you want an education, go to a university with a good reputation for attracting and retaining the best.

Philosophy student perhaps? Like a bit of Nietzche do ya??

Openmp · 08-05-2010 06:15PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Arse.

How very egalitarian of you.

hada · 08-05-2010 06:16PM

Openmp wrote: »

University education is not about the coursework, it's the state of mind that you acquire after 3 or 4 years being immersed alongside bright people and being intellectually guided by even brighter people. It's also about the social network.

Trinity is the best university in Ireland because it attracts the best. The intricacies of the coursework is comparable to that in other institutions, but the state of mind, the experience and the prestige ain't.

This idea that a senior lecturer in Tipp Inst is paid the same as a senior lecturer at Trinity is a load of politically-driven egalitarian codswollop. But Trinity compensates for it in that you are in the heart of an intellectual and social network that you just won't get anywhere else in the country.

We're not all the same. Get over it.

The prevailing tone of this thread is that universities exist to serve the needs of the economy. This is only part of their role. I'd suggest reading John Henry Newman's "The Idea of a University". If you want to get a qualification, go attend any of the ITs dotted around the county and go home at 5 pm every evening to watch TV, tend to your interests in tattoos or whatever floats your boat. If you want an education, go to a university with a good reputation for attracting and retaining the best.

/facepalm

MagicMarker · 08-05-2010 06:18PM

Openmp wrote: »

How very egalitarian of you.

I take that as a compliment.

Openmp · 08-05-2010 06:18PM

Valentino Strong Beeswax wrote: »

Philosophy student perhaps? Like a bit of Nietzche do ya??

You mean the discredited nihilist guy who was a bit of a nut-job? And no, contrary to your silly little assertion, I'm not philosophy student.

MagicMarker · 08-05-2010 06:20PM

Openmp wrote: »

You mean the discredited nihilist guy who was a bit of a nut-job? And no, contrary to your silly little assertion, I'm not a philosophy student.

Oh my, you forgot to add the 'a'. How embarrassing for you.

Openmp · 08-05-2010 06:21PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

I take that as a compliment.

Ah yes, an ideological boy wonder. So how will you achieve your goal of ensuring that everyone equal and nobody dares acquire more wealth than his neighbour? How about a bit of socialism or Marxism imposed on the population perhaps? lol

Openmp · 08-05-2010 06:22PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Oh my, you forgot to add the 'a'. How embarrassing for you.

Apologies kind sir. I forgot I was submitting an article to Physical Review Letters.

hada · 08-05-2010 06:24PM

Openmp wrote: »

Ah yes, an ideological boy wonder. So how will you achieve your goal of ensuring that everyone equal and nobody dares acquire more wealth than his neighbour? How about a bit of socialism or Marxism imposed on the population perhaps? lol

You're a silly billy. *wags finger*

And because I go to a university that "is heart of an intellectual and social network that you just won't get anywhere else in the WORLD", it makes you seem even more like a silly billy. :pac:

MagicMarker · 08-05-2010 06:25PM

Openmp wrote: »

Ah yes, an ideological boy wonder. So how will you achieve your goal of ensuring that everyone equal and nobody dares acquire more wealth than his neighbour? How about a bit of socialism or Marxism imposed on the population perhaps? lol

I just believe in equal rights and opportunities, do you not?

Sid_Justice · 08-05-2010 06:27PM

Openmp wrote: »

The prevailing tone of this thread is that universities exist to serve the needs of the economy. This is only part of their role. I'd suggest reading John Henry Newman's "The Idea of a University". If you want to get a qualification, go attend any of the ITs dotted around the county and go home at 5 pm every evening to watch TV, tend to your interests in tattoos or whatever floats your boat. If you want an education, go to a university with a good reputation for attracting and retaining the best.

University's attract researchers to lead research groups. At least, in Science, Maths and Engineering that's what they do. The quality of a lecturers research is broadly irrelevant to the quality of the undergraduate teaching. Firstly, most PIs don't even lecture.

Having said that, I think it is best to surround yourself with people of the highest calibre. Thus, I'd rather take lectures with people really interested in the topic who actively chose to take the course rather than some empty headed educational tourists in college because their friends are.

evercloserunion · 08-05-2010 06:28PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Oh my, you forgot to add the 'a'. How embarrassing for you.

He obviously went to an IT. We wouldn't have his kind in Trinity, you may rest assured.

Openmp · 08-05-2010 06:31PM

hada wrote: »

You're a silly billy. *wags finger*

And because I go to a university that "is heart of an intellectual and social network that you just won't get anywhere else in the WORLD", it makes you seem even more like a silly billy. :pac:

Let me guess. You get the commuter train home at 5 every evening? You treat the Pav as a public house and invite all your non-student friends along to drink Bavs that you purchased in the Centra?

hada · 08-05-2010 06:34PM

Openmp wrote: »

Let me guess. You get the commuter train home at 5 every evening? You treat the Pav as a public house and invite all your non-student friends along to drink Bavs that you purchased in the Centra?

You've got me in one. I'm astounded.

Tip #1 re boards: Always read previous posts in thread before making assumptions.

Openmp · 08-05-2010 06:35PM

Sid_Justice wrote: »

University's [sic] attract researchers to lead research groups. At least, in Science, Maths and Engineering that's what they do. The quality of a lecturers research is broadly irrelevant to the quality of the undergraduate teaching. Firstly, most PIs don't even lecture.

Having said that, I think it is best to surround yourself with people of the highest calibre. Thus, I'd rather take lectures with people really interested in the topic who actively chose to take the course rather than some empty headed educational tourists in college because their friends are.

First of all, you're making a load of irrelevant and inchorent statements that are meaningless.

I'll pick you up on one of your little flippant comments though: I can just imagine the outrage that would be cause if I referred to students at ITs as "empty headed". It seems this kind of sentiment is an acceptable prejudice; just not the other way around.

epgc3fyqirnbsx · 08-05-2010 06:45PM

Just reading all of your posts, they all revolve around Trinity. Well done for getting there, you must be quite the scholar, but it doesn't really make you the master of the universe that you think you are.
That is what the rest of your life is for and what it is possible for anyone to achieve depends very little on what university they go to (and I hasten to add that Trinity isn't a university, it's a 'college')

Sid_Justice · 08-05-2010 06:46PM

Openmp wrote: »

First of all, you're making a load of irrelevant and inchorent statements that are meaningless.

I'll pick you up on one of your little flippant comments though: I can just imagine the outrage that would be cause if I referred to students at ITs as "empty headed". It seems this kind of sentiment is an acceptable prejudice; just not the other way around.

You implied a very close link between the pulling power of a university and the quality of its teaching. This, as anyone who actually attended a university would know, is not necessarily true. On another irrelevant and meaningless note (but hopefully not incoherent this time around) a British Trinity fellow told me he applied for his position over all other institutes in Ireland due to its non-Roman Catholic and non-nationalist history. Some prejudices are more acceptable than other its seems.

PeakOutput · 08-05-2010 07:24PM

Valentino Strong Beeswax wrote: »

Just reading all of your posts, they all revolve around Trinity. Well done for getting there, you must be quite the scholar, but it doesn't really make you the master of the universe that you think you are.
That is what the rest of your life is for and what it is possible for anyone to achieve depends very little on what university they go to (and I hasten to add that Trinity isn't a university, it's a 'college')

:rolleyes: trinity is a university, in fact its irelands oldest university

also the person your talking to dosnt currently attend trinity if you did actually read all of his posts you would have noticed were he goes

epgc3fyqirnbsx · 08-05-2010 07:28PM

PeakOutput wrote: »

:rolleyes: trinity is a university, in fact its irelands oldest university

also the person your talking to dosnt currently attend trinity if you did actually read all of his posts you would have noticed were he goes

I was referencing one of his past posts from the TCD forum where he said that trinners is actually a college

Sid_Justice · 08-05-2010 07:36PM

Trinity college Dublin is the sole constituent college of the University of Dublin.

University College Dublin was a constituent college of the National University of Ireland.

King's College is one of many constituent colleges of the University of Cambridge.

Thirdfox · 08-05-2010 07:37PM

Valentino Strong Beeswax wrote: »

I was referencing one of his past posts from the TCD forum where he said that trinners is actually a college

News to me, I'd always assumed that Trinity College was the sole college in the University of Dublin. So Trinity College is a legal university too? How does that tie into the University of Dublin naming system?

Elliemental · 08-05-2010 07:46PM

Lollymcd wrote: »

Are all Irish universities the same? Are some colleges respected more than others? If you pay for your third level qualification are you desperate or privileged?

Doesn't it depend more on the subject you take? I mean Media Studies is basically a fancy name for television watching skills, whereas Astro Physics may be regarding as being rather more academic.

Jeebus · 08-05-2010 07:54PM

Openmp wrote: »

University education is not about the coursework, it's the state of mind that you acquire after 3 or 4 years being immersed alongside bright people and being intellectually guided by even brighter people. It's also about the social network.

Trinity is the best university in Ireland because it attracts the best. The intricacies of the coursework is comparable to that in other institutions, but the state of mind, the experience and the prestige ain't.

This idea that a senior lecturer in Tipp Inst is paid the same as a senior lecturer at Trinity is a load of politically-driven egalitarian codswollop. But Trinity compensates for it in that you are in the heart of an intellectual and social network that you just won't get anywhere else in the country.

We're not all the same. Get over it.

The prevailing tone of this thread is that universities exist to serve the needs of the economy. This is only part of their role. I'd suggest reading John Henry Newman's "The Idea of a University". If you want to get a qualification, go attend any of the ITs dotted around the county and go home at 5 pm every evening to watch TV, tend to your interests in tattoos or whatever floats your boat. If you want an education, go to a university with a good reputation for attracting and retaining the best.

Lol, fail.

You do realise Trinity has an awful reputation for a lot of its courses, in Ireland and abroad ? I was going to study medicine in Trinity, but decided against it on the basis that the Medicine course they run there has quite a bad reputation.

Clearly they do teach a good course in trolling though so...kudos.

Sid_Justice · 08-05-2010 08:01PM

Which medical school did you intend instead?

Killer Pigeon · 08-05-2010 08:12PM

Jeebus wrote: »

Lol, fail.

You do realise Trinity has an awful reputation for a lot of its courses, in Ireland and abroad ? I was going to study medicine in Trinity, but decided against it on the basis that the Medicine course they run there has quite a bad reputation.

Clearly they do teach a good course in trolling though so...kudos.

I think this is a good point actually. Trinity has always been the best in Ireland for particular subject areas for which it has been renowned, such as the Arts and Humanities. Since the Arts and Humanities have always been an integral part of Irish education historically this is why Trinity has been at the forefront of Irish education. However, I don't think that Trinity has been as well regarded as other Irish universities when it comes to Business, Engineering and Science. These are areas that have far more impact on the economy.

Jeebus · 08-05-2010 08:17PM

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Which medical school did you intend instead?

Was accepted into UCC, which was my first choice. Decided to do a computing degree first, since I enjoy programming. Will probably try and go into graduate medicine after (definitely will attempt it, at least), if I don't get in, I will go for the undergrad course and then hopefully work in research - the reasoning behind my incredibly expensive education !

Are all degrees created equal?

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