Are all degrees created equal?

seraphimvc

a degree nowadays is nothing.everyone has a degree now

working experience is the key.

Lollymcd

So have I got it right, an arts degree from UCG and NUIM are the same but one from Trinity is better than both??? What's the difference between a degree in accountancy from DBS and one from DIT? With some relevent work experience are they the same?

bnt

If I was a hiring employer, I'd definitely want to know that the candidate's degree included decent results in some Maths subjects. I'm not just talking about Pure Maths, or even Maths-intensive degrees (Sciences, Engineering), but I'd want to see some elementary Calculus and Statistics, the kind of courses you do in e.g. Economics or Computer Science. Even the UCD Liberal Arts programme has a suitable option.

I've met too many students who took LC Maths badly and ran as far away from it as they could, leaving them basically innumerate, unable to deal with anything involving numbers. Like it or not, the real world runs on numbers.

PeakOutput

PeakOutput wrote: »

anyone who gets into harvard can afford to go

its called a student loan and with their earning potential upon graduation its easily doable(the average starting salary for mba's upon graduation was something like 120Kdollars)

I know what a student loan is, I have one. I don't care what the earning potential is, I would not be comfortable borrowing 50K a year for tuition (or whatever it is) and then even more money for living expenses. Are you seriously telling me you'd be happy to have 250,000 dollars hanging over you at the age of 22? You don't know what life is going to throw at you, something could happen which meant you couldn't work in the field you wanted or even work at all. Maybe you wouldn't graduate for whatever reason. Borrowing huge amounts of money is not a decision to take lightly because 'sure, I'll earn it all back'. Even having 16,000 euro to pay back is bad enough and that's pocket change to most American grads. Given a choice between going to Trinity for free, or for very low fees and getting into huge amounts of debt to go to Harvard, I think I'd take Trinity every time. Remember that Americans don't have that choice. Even crappy local colleges in the US charge more than Trinity. If you want to go to any remotely prestigious college, you have to fork out loads of it, so why not a little more to go to Harvard? It's just not the same situation.

davyjose

Harvard business school graduates walk into jobs earning 80/90 grand per annum.
You don't understand how lucrative that kind of a degree is, if you'd choose Trinity.

PeakOutput

[quote=[Deleted User];65740663]I know what a student loan is, I have one. I don't care what the earning potential is, I would not be comfortable borrowing 50K a year for tuition (or whatever it is) and then even more money for living expenses. Are you seriously telling me you'd be happy to have 250,000 dollars hanging over you at the age of 22? You don't know what life is going to throw at you, something could happen which meant you couldn't work in the field you wanted or even work at all. Maybe you wouldn't graduate for whatever reason. Borrowing huge amounts of money is not a decision to take lightly because 'sure, I'll earn it all back'. Even having 16,000 euro to pay back is bad enough and that's pocket change to most American grads. Given a choice between going to Trinity for free, or for very low fees and getting into huge amounts of debt to go to Harvard, I think I'd take Trinity every time. Remember that Americans don't have that choice. Even crappy local colleges in the US charge more than Trinity. If you want to go to any remotely prestigious college, you have to fork out loads of it, so why not a little more to go to Harvard? It's just not the same situation.[/QUOTE]

i guess it depends on what you want

if i decide to do the post grad im thinking about ill probably be 150-180K in debt coming out of it, ill be 26/27 though i probably wouldnt have done it at 22

and yes you do have to fork out loads if you go to a top school you get what you pay for imo

dfx-

neil_18_ wrote: »

"Daddy can't buy you cop on in Trinity College"


I go to DIT... I'd imagine that looking at a CV with the Trinity equivilent of my course would look better on paper.

It doesn't. The standard of practical knowledge in science in more prestigious universities is shocking to say the least.

thetonynator

[quote=[Deleted User];65739082]Not really. Most Irish people just couldn't afford to go to Harvard. I wanted to but there was no way it was ever happening. American kids can do it because their parents save from birth or they get financial aid. I applied to colleges in the US and I got accepted but I couldn't afford it so that was that. I do think that Irish students studying in the UK is realistic and I don't know why more of them don't do it. The fees aren't too high and it's easy to get back and forth.[/QUOTE]


Not at the moment it isn't . . .

davyjose

davyjose wrote: »

Harvard business school graduates walk into jobs earning 80/90 grand per annum.
You don't understand how lucrative that kind of a degree is, if you'd choose Trinity.

Did you read anything I posted? You don't know for sure where your life is going to take you. Something awful could happen and then you're stuck with 300,000 of debt and no job. And yes, I know people this has happened to. And secondly, Harvard isn't the only place where graduates can walk into high paying jobs. Plenty of Trinity students do, and Oxbridge students and Imperial College students and the list goes on. They didn't pay 6 figures for their degrees. Why would you? If you're American, college is going to cost a fortune anyway, but why choose to go somewhere so expensive when you really don't have to?

PeakOutput

PeakOutput wrote: »

i guess it depends on what you want

if i decide to do the post grad im thinking about ill probably be 150-180K in debt coming out of it, ill be 26/27 though i probably wouldnt have done it at 22

and yes you do have to fork out loads if you go to a top school you get what you pay for imo

You do have to fork out loads to get a well paying job? That's one of the funniest things I've ever heard. You are aware that Cambridge is number 2 in the world, ahead of all the expensive American colleges except Harvard? Do you think their grads go to work in Burger King when they graduate?

Psychedelic

PeakOutput wrote: »

if you want an average degree that will get you an average job with average pay in average ireland then pick any of our uni's or dit(which is a university fyi)

DIT is not a university. Like WIT, DIT has applied for university status:
http://www.independent.ie/education/latest-news/dit-plans-to-make-fresh-bid-for-university-status-115803.html

There is a higher education report to be published next month which could decide the WIT and DIT applications for university status.

chocgirl

My 2 cents on the original questions:

All Irish universities are not the same, there are variations between courses in different unis and some are more sought after than others depending on the course in question.

All of the universities seem to be well respected, internationally Trinity is the most respected by far and scores well in International league tables.

I think in general if you have to pay for a private college in Ireland it's because you didn't do well enough to go to one of the others. You're paying for a poorer education. Obviously there are exceptions to that!

RichTea

chocgirl wrote: »

All of the universities seem to be well respected, internationally Trinity is the most respected by far.

Go on then, back that up.

Lollymcd

chocgirl wrote: »

I think in general if you have to pay for a private college in Ireland it's because you didn't do well enough to go to one of the others. You're paying for a poorer education. Obviously there are exceptions to that!

I'm curious what the exceptions are

RichTea

RichTea wrote: »

Go on then, back that up.

What's the competition?

RichTea

[quote=[Deleted User];65743237]What's the competition?[/QUOTE]

DCU, UCD, NUIG, UCC, UL.

Bring me up something that shows that nothing compares with your college or your particular course in that college in Ireland.

melekalikimaka

i know for a fact pharmacy jobs had 'trinity grad only' on them a few years back.

PeakOutput

PeakOutput wrote: »

they didnt name it or say why besides that they have found their graduates to be of unacceptable quality

edit; i think they named trinity and dcu and maybe ul as having good quality and they said they give graduates from the others a chance accept for one they didnt name it though

I remember listening to the boss of Google Ireland a few months ago on the radio, during the debate on grade inflation. I'm sure he said they only accept graduates from TCD, UCD and UCC.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i know for a fact pharmacy jobs had 'trinity grad only' on them a few years back.

Did they want to experiment on them? :P

RichTea

RichTea wrote: »

DCU, UCD, NUIG, UCC, UL.

Bring me up something that shows that nothing compares with your college or your particular course in that college in Ireland.

You're asking for data that just doesn't exist. Do you honestly think that most American/French/British employers have heard of NUIG or DCU? Seriously? Trinity has an outstanding international reputation outside Ireland and having worked abroad and having many friends abroad, it's pretty much the only Irish university people have heard of. Some have heard of UCD, but that's pretty much it, with the exception of courses in specific fields (animation, for example). I would say this even if I hadn't gone to Trinity, and I very nearly didn't. Anyone who thinks NUIG is as internationally respected as TCD is deluded. Honestly. I'm not commenting on the quality of the institution, I'm commenting on how respected each college is. Here in the UK, Trinity is seen as almost an equal of Oxbridge. I have friends here who went to DIT and Maynooth and NOBODY has ever heard of them. Not employers, not academics and certainly not the general public. Just like the University of Hull is not as internationally renowned as Oxford and SUNY Binghamton is not as respected as Yale. That's how it is.

RichTea

[quote=[Deleted User];65744151]You're asking for data that just doesn't exist. Do you honestly think that most American/French/British employers have heard of NUIG or DCU? Seriously? Trinity has an outstanding international reputation [/QUOTE]

Exactly. It's entirely subjective. Trinity does have a bigger international reputation than the other universities, but that doesn't say much about the standard of teaching or whatever. A lot of the universities in Ireland are better than Trinity in certain areas (EG the Masters School of Business in UCD is, subjectively again, one of the top 10 in the world, DCU's MA in Journalism is very highly regarded, then there's UL's Engineering etc etc), of course Trinity's also better in a lot of areas and has the bonus of being a tourist attraction which does boost it's reputation a lot.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing Trinity at all. A lot of friends and family go there. But you really do need to take a look at the course before you can say that Trinity is the best.

opinion guy

[quote=[Deleted User];65744151]You're asking for data that just doesn't exist. Do you honestly think that most American/French/British employers have heard of NUIG or DCU? Seriously? Trinity has an outstanding international reputation outside Ireland and having worked abroad and having many friends abroad, it's pretty much the only Irish university people have heard of. Some have heard of UCD, but that's pretty much it, with the exception of courses in specific fields (animation, for example). I would say this even if I hadn't gone to Trinity, and I very nearly didn't. Anyone who thinks NUIG is as internationally respected as TCD is deluded. Honestly. I'm not commenting on the quality of the institution, I'm commenting on how respected each college is. Here in the UK, Trinity is seen as almost an equal of Oxbridge. I have friends here who went to DIT and Maynooth and NOBODY has ever heard of them. Not employers, not academics and certainly not the general public. Just like the University of Hull is not as internationally renowned as Oxford and SUNY Binghamton is not as respected as Yale. That's how it is.[/QUOTE]


Yeah I think thats true enough. I once did an interview for a masters in London and was asked in more or less sneery terms why I hadn't gone to Trinity as if it was the only place that counted. Needless to say - didn't get it

bnt

If a corporate employer really thinks that Trinity is the only Irish university of note, then that's their loss, not yours. If Trinity is the Harvard of Ireland, then UCD is the Yale, UL is the Notre Dame, UCC is the Cornell, and DIT is the MIT. I don't think I'd compare DCU to Princeton, though ... :pac:

PS: A UCD education was good enough for the CEO of Chevron Corp. in the USA - David O'Reilly, who retired last year after a decade at the top of the US oil industry.

PeakOutput

[quote=[Deleted User];65741733]You do have to fork out loads to get a well paying job? That's one of the funniest things I've ever heard.[/quote]

well you must of heard it in your own head, read what you quoted again i didnt mention jobs

You are aware that Cambridge is number 2 in the world, ahead of all the expensive American colleges except Harvard? Do you think their grads go to work in Burger King when they graduate?

tbh i didnt know cambridge was so reasonably priced but it dosnt offer the course im looking for which is why i didnt look any further at that particular college

london business school and oxford and possibly london school of economics have courses im interested in and the costs for those are slightly cheaper but comparable to the cost of going to mit and probably more expensive then going to ucla or berkley

Psychedelic wrote: »

DIT is not a university.

i was told 6 years ago wheni studied there for 2 weeks before dropping out it had univeristy statusbut wiki says this

The institution sought university status in 1996; although the application was declined, the institution now has powers comparable to those of a university, and its degrees are recognised as such in Ireland. The institution recently confirmed that it is applying for university status again

the degrees recognised as such i dont understand maybe thats what they said but i take it back anyway

[quote=[Deleted User];65744151]Anyone who thinks NUIG is as internationally respected as TCD is deluded.[/quote]

comlpetely agree

Here in the UK, Trinity is seen as almost an equal of Oxbridge

weather they believe that or not aside its certainly not true that trinity is the equal of oxbridge overall

Penisland

Irish people criticizing each other..........trying to one up another..............no :rolleyes:

PeakOutput

bnt wrote: »

If Trinity is the Harvard of Ireland

being the 'harvard of ireland means sweet **** all its still an average college (with some great departments and research behind it no doubt)

PS: A UCD education was good enough for the CEO of Chevron Corp. in the USA - David O'Reilly, who retired last year after a decade at the top of the US oil industry.

ah of course it was the 3/4 years he spent in ucd that made him ceo not the 32 years of working for the company how silly of me to assume there were other considerations in place for that job besides were you went to college

he effectively did 8 highly specialised phd's(working in the job for 32 years) in the time between leaving ucd and becoming ceo

PeakOutput

Penisland wrote: »

Irish people criticizing each other..........trying to one up another..............no :rolleyes:

and just to be clear so people dont think this is what im doing

i have alot of respect for the majority of graduates from each university particularly the ones in dublin and particularly ucd and trinity i jsut dont agree with comparing their educations to anything close to an oxford or cambridge or lse or lbs or mit or harvard education

and again im talking about post grad stuff here in the main not undergrads who matter little in the grand scheme of things

El Siglo

bnt wrote: »

If a corporate employer really thinks that Trinity is the only Irish university of note, then that's their loss, not yours. If Trinity is the Harvard of Ireland, then UCD is the Yale, UL is the Notre Dame, UCC is the Cornell, and DIT is the MIT. I don't think I'd compare DCU to Princeton, though ... :pac:

PS: A UCD education was good enough for the CEO of Chevron Corp. in the USA - David O'Reilly, who retired last year after a decade at the top of the US oil industry.

All that I can think of here is this dialogue from American Psycho:

Patrick Bateman: He was into that whole Yale thing.
Donald Kimball: Yale thing?
Patrick Bateman: Yeah, Yale thing.
Donald Kimball: What whole Yale thing?
Patrick Bateman: Well, for one thing, I think he was probably a closet homosexual who did a lot of cocaine. That whole Yale thing.

Good comparisons though!

bnt

PeakOutput wrote: »

being the 'harvard of ireland means sweet **** all its still an average college (with some great departments and research behind it no doubt)

ah of course it was the 3/4 years he spent in ucd that made him ceo not the 32 years of working for the company how silly of me to assume there were other considerations in place for that job besides were you went to college

he effectively did 8 highly specialised phd's(working in the job for 32 years) in the time between leaving ucd and becoming ceo

Exactly. So, in that light, how is a TCD degree so much better than a UCD degree? Or a degree from any university? O'Reilly joined Chevron with a B.Sc, but what happened later is to his credit, not UCD's. An undergraduate degree is a start, it doesn't define your career forever, so that London employer who ignores everyone but Trinity is shooting himself in the foot, long-term. If you choose Trinity on that basis alone, you might end up working for a plonker like that. :cool:

PeakOutput

bnt wrote: »

Exactly. So, in that light, how is a TCD degree so much better than a UCD degree? Or a degree from any university? O'Reilly joined Chevron with a B.Sc, but what happened later is to his credit, not UCD's. An undergraduate degree is a start, it doesn't define your career forever, so that London employer who ignores everyone but Trinity is shooting himself in the foot, long-term. If you choose Trinity on that basis alone, you might end up working for a plonker like that. :cool:

ah ok i get what you mean now

the degree dosnt define your career no

BUT

i imagine it wasnt entry level postions that the person who only considers trinity grads for more likely middle to upper management or equivalant

an undergrad degree generally gets you into an entry level position postgrads can make you suitable and have you considered for higher positions and the value of post grads varies far far more than the value of undergrads between colleges