Wages

Gilligan.Mark · 06-05-2010 08:02PM #1

What would a new graduate Biomedical Engineer with a Masters expect to earn starting off?

06-05-2010 09:03PM

Any experience? Because otherwise for a grad I'd put around the €30,000, and probably less.

Gilligan.Mark · 06-05-2010 09:21PM

a 5 month placement but that equats to nothing effectively

godtabh · 07-05-2010 08:56AM

I'd be more worried about getting the first job. Once you have that get the experience and then start worrying about salary.

Changes from industry to industry but the range is probably €25-35k but expect something at the lower end

Gilligan.Mark · 07-05-2010 09:43AM

Thanks for the info. Appreciate it

x in the city · 08-05-2010 01:34AM

Gilligan.Mark wrote: »

What would a new graduate Biomedical Engineer with a Masters expect to earn starting off?

salary below 30k is ridiculous tbh

kippy · 08-05-2010 01:37AM

x in the city wrote: »

salary below 30k is ridiculous tbh

Welcome to the real world.

Offy · 13-05-2010 07:30PM

x in the city wrote: »

salary below 30k is ridiculous tbh

Why are so many Irish people willing to settle for rubish wages? Do we Irish have no self respect? I recently saw a protest in Greece where someone was carrying a sign the read "We will not take this, we are not Irish". I recently quit a job that paid 34k, I was meant to recieve a pay rise after a six months trail period. Instead of a pay rise I was asked to wait another six months as the company wasnt doing well. The company not doing well did not stop the owner from taking a holiday in Florida in January. To make it absolutly clear to all, I now recieve €8 less a week on social welfare. My advice to young engineers: Never work for an Irish company or any company that Enterprise Ireland support. The wages are always low in my experience.

Aka Ishur · 13-05-2010 07:41PM

Offy wrote: »

Why are so many Irish people willing to settle for rubish wages? Do we Irish have no self respect? I recently saw a protest in Greece where someone was carrying a sign the read "We will not take this, we are not Irish". I recently quit a job that paid 34k, I was meant to recieve a pay rise after a six months trail period. Instead of a pay rise I was asked to wait another six months as the company wasnt doing well. The company not doing well did not stop the owner from taking a holiday in Florida in January. To make it absolutly clear to all, I now recieve €8 less a week on social welfare. My advice to young engineers: Never work for an Irish company or any company that Enterprise Ireland support. The wages are always low in my experience.

Bet you're proud every day to wake up so full of self respect. Did you put self respect in the job gap of your CV? And how do your references fare? Silly advice from a scrounger in my opinion.

CoalBucket · 13-05-2010 08:00PM

Offy wrote: »

I recently quit a job that paid 34k To make it absolutly clear to all, I now recieve €8 less a week on social welfare.

If it paid 34k a year even before tax it works out about €600 - €700 a week. Where are you signing on and getting €600 a week

Offy wrote: »

My advice to young engineers: Never work for an Irish company or any company that Enterprise Ireland support. The wages are always low in my experience.

Don't take this personally but I hope nobody takes your advice. For anybody to go on the live register voluntarily is an insult. Having been working in Engineering for over 12 years and been made redundant, my advice to young engineers is if you get a job, cherish it.

I was unemployed for nearly 5 months before getting work, not in Engineering, but I am damn glad to be back working.

mathew · 13-05-2010 08:05PM

I think I'd prefer to be getting the 8euro more and doing something I enjoy doing.
I'm spending 4 years + studying in college because I love engineering and want to do it.
Even if you dont enjoy it, Im sure going to work and interacting with people beats sitting on the couch all day sponging off the state.
Why not use the skill you spent 4 years of your life learning???

kippy · 13-05-2010 10:40PM

Offy wrote: »

Why are so many Irish people willing to settle for rubish wages? Do we Irish have no self respect? I recently saw a protest in Greece where someone was carrying a sign the read "We will not take this, we are not Irish". I recently quit a job that paid 34k, I was meant to recieve a pay rise after a six months trail period. Instead of a pay rise I was asked to wait another six months as the company wasnt doing well. The company not doing well did not stop the owner from taking a holiday in Florida in January. To make it absolutly clear to all, I now recieve €8 less a week on social welfare. My advice to young engineers: Never work for an Irish company or any company that Enterprise Ireland support. The wages are always low in my experience.

What is rubbish about 34K a year?
You'll that for the OP's skillset and experience thats a pretty decent wage in general and probably above average.
If you think that is a bad wage in Ireland I can almost guarantee you it is lower elsewhere for a similiar skillset and experience level. We do after all have some of the highest wages in the world, private AND public sector.

Offy · 13-05-2010 11:47PM

Aka Ishur wrote: »

Bet you're proud every day to wake up so full of self respect. Did you put self respect in the job gap of your CV? And how do your references fare? Silly advice from a scrounger in my opinion.

Insult the post not the poster dude, MOD time you stepped in?????

Offy · 13-05-2010 11:51PM

CoalBucket wrote: »

If it paid 34k a year even before tax it works out about €600 - €700 a week. Where are you signing on and getting €600 a week

Don't take this personally but I hope nobody takes your advice. For anybody to go on the live register voluntarily is an insult. Having been working in Engineering for over 12 years and been made redundant, my advice to young engineers is if you get a job, cherish it.

I was unemployed for nearly 5 months before getting work, not in Engineering, but I am damn glad to be back working.

I have a government pension and with it I can also claim Jobseekers Benefit. All in it works out at just over €600.
Ive twenty years experience in engineering and at that level €34k is an insult. I agreed to it for six months, not indefinitely. If the company in question paid rates that are reflected in the Engineers Ireland salary surveys (or anywhere near them) I would still be working for them.

Offy · 13-05-2010 11:58PM

mathew wrote: »

I think I'd prefer to be getting the 8euro more and doing something I enjoy doing.
I'm spending 4 years + studying in college because I love engineering and want to do it.
Even if you dont enjoy it, Im sure going to work and interacting with people beats sitting on the couch all day sponging off the state.
Why not use the skill you spent 4 years of your life learning???

4 years of my life? I have clocked up twice that in higher education since I did the leaving cert some twenty years ago.
Sponging of the state??? Are you trying to imply I shouldnt claim back on all the PRSI and tax Ive paid over the last twenty years? Not only do I think Im entitled to make a claim I know Im entitled to. Sorry if that rubs you the wrong way but look at it like this. The tax man is entitled to take tax from me when I am working so but what logic to you determine that I shouldnt take back what Im entitled to? By your logic the tax man is a sponger living off everyone hard work. Sponging off the state lol, the state never gave me anything for nothing.

mathew · 14-05-2010 08:04AM

i'm pretty sure thats not the purpose of tax....

langdang · 14-05-2010 08:25AM

Offy wrote: »

My advice to young engineers: Never work for an Irish company [.....]. The wages are always low in my experience.

I agree! Never mind the fact that many of them are run as personal fiefdoms rather than professional outfits.

Anyway, wages - smart economy my backside, how do you encourage intelligent people into science/technology/engineering, if after all their hard work in getting a technical degree and working a 39 hour week all year round, they find out that teacher with a pass degree in arse-ology and a Hdip is starting on more money, guaranteed increments and all summer off?

Woden · 14-05-2010 12:17PM

Offy wrote: »

Insult the post not the poster dude, MOD time you stepped in?????

Please do not back seat moderate. You used the appropriate channel for raising the issue already which I appreciate.

Lets keep it civil please folks.

Offy · 14-05-2010 01:50PM

mathew wrote: »

i'm pretty sure thats not the purpose of tax....

Actually it is one of the intended purposes of tax.
"PAYE stands for Pay As You Earn. As the name suggests, this means that every time your employer pays you your wages or salary he or she must deduct tax and pay it to Revenue. The PAYE system was devised to make it easier for employees, pensioners and directors to pay their tax by spreading the payment evenly over the tax year, rather than having to face a single tax bill once per year."
http://www.revenue.ie/en/personal/circumstances/moving/working-an-employer.html

Offy · 14-05-2010 01:50PM

Woden wrote: »

Please do not back seat moderate. You used the appropriate channel for raising the issue already which I appreciate.

Lets keep it civil please folks.

Apologies.

Stacks Mad · 19-05-2010 06:22PM

langdang wrote: »

I agree! Never mind the fact that many of them are run as personal fiefdoms rather than professional outfits.

Anyway, wages - smart economy my backside, how do you encourage intelligent people into science/technology/engineering, if after all their hard work in getting a technical degree and working a 39 hour week all year round, they find out that teacher with a pass degree in arse-ology and a Hdip is starting on more money, guaranteed increments and all summer off?

It really is depressing, having spent 4 years with no money in college and now am working in a medical device company for minimum wage , all I'll say is thank god for mammy!!
In op 25-30k starting off show me and Id give my body up for that wage as I'm so unhappy in my current job.
THANK GOD FOR DRINK!!!!!

kippy · 19-05-2010 07:07PM

langdang wrote: »

I agree! Never mind the fact that many of them are run as personal fiefdoms rather than professional outfits.

Anyway, wages - smart economy my backside, how do you encourage intelligent people into science/technology/engineering, if after all their hard work in getting a technical degree and working a 39 hour week all year round, they find out that teacher with a pass degree in arse-ology and a Hdip is starting on more money, guaranteed increments and all summer off?

Is it the fault of the state that some Engineers working in Private industry are not being paid as well as they think they should?
If Engineers feel hard done by in their career they could use their engineering skills in the educational area.

At the end of the day and I have said this umpteen times, if you are not happy with your lot in your career or lack thereof, theres feck all point blaming anyone else. You need to re evaluate your career and education choices as well as what is important to you, then you make decisions based on that.
Perhaps theres too many engineers out there for the number of jobs available, making it an employers market, if thats the case you need to diversify. I know of people who have changed career and career paths a number of times in their lives, its not easy but what do you want?

Offy · 19-05-2010 11:34PM

kippy wrote: »

Is it the fault of the state that some Engineers working in Private industry are not being paid as well as they think they should?

Partly yes, it is. They set the wages in the companies that they are supporting, not the company directors. UNLESS you dont need their money, then its solely down to the company directors. As the EI companies are getting employees at rock bottom prices others follow. Years of college should have some kind of reward at the end of it, whats the point if you can earn more money by not going to college?

kippy wrote: »

If Engineers feel hard done by in their career they could use their engineering skills in the educational area.

For some of us engineering is a vocation.

kippy wrote: »

At the end of the day and I have said this umpteen times, if you are not happy with your lot in your career or lack thereof, theres feck all point blaming anyone else. You need to re evaluate your career and education choices as well as what is important to you, then you make decisions based on that.

Thats exactly what I am doing, so as I am doing as you advise whats your problem? Perhaps you think Im unreasonable for not working full time and going to college full time? Or is it simply because Im willing to claim what Im entitled to. If that be the case perhaps politics would be a more suitable profession for you rather than engineering?

kippy wrote: »

Perhaps theres too many engineers out there for the number of jobs available, making it an employers market, if thats the case you need to diversify. I know of people who have changed career and career paths a number of times in their lives, its not easy but what do you want?

See above.

kippy · 20-05-2010 12:38AM

Offy wrote: »

Partly yes, it is. They set the wages in the companies that they are supporting, not the company directors. UNLESS you dont need their money, then its solely down to the company directors. As the EI companies are getting employees at rock bottom prices others follow. Years of college should have some kind of reward at the end of it, whats the point if you can earn more money by not going to college?

For some of us engineering is a vocation.

Thats exactly what I am doing, so as I am doing as you advise whats your problem? Perhaps you think Im unreasonable for not working full time and going to college full time? Or is it simply because Im willing to claim what Im entitled to. If that be the case perhaps politics would be a more suitable profession for you rather than engineering?

See above.

I dont get your first point at all. You are somehow "blaming" the State for the engineers in private industry earning less than they think they should?

I never said it wasnt a vocation for ye, just throwing in the education side of things as something else to try with yer vocation.

I amn't knocking you for claiming your social welfare when not working......I have not problem at all with that, I questioned your attitude earlier in the thread, that may have been unfair so I apologies.

I amn't a politician (not sure why this is relevant) and I am't an engineer.
I'm just someone who, after my leaving cert (in which I had no actual career guidance and hadnt seen a PC from one end of the year to the next) decided to do a science subject in college. I was woefully uninterested in the subject matter and dropped out, worked in a mundane job (building laptops) for a year, decided IT was for me.
Went back to college. Did a course where there was a segment of work experience. After two years I got a job back where I worked on work experience. Salary at the time, €15K (2001 was the year)(in Dublin) left after a while, moved into a few jobs, worked my ass off in them, spent as much of the companies money on professional exams and quals until about 4 years ago (2006) paying a massive 24K, despite me having numerous professional qualifications, experience and a college education. I finished that job in 2007 on about 28K but everything about the job bar the social life sucked. I moved on, and eventually got a job where I feel I am appreciated and paid accordingly, I work damn hard for it as well.

Spending 2.3.4 years in college does not, nor should it, guarantee anything.
Sure it may have in the few years we had some level of fake prosperity but in general it wont.
More and more people are highly skilled and qualified now, and there are more out there in one field over another, we are also in a recession and employers will cut what they can.
Thats the reality, I am sorry but thats tough on most people.

To me, for the majority of my working life 30K was well over what I earned, even taking inflation/deflation into account. I had college and professional certs AND at various stages of work experience, as well as everything else. I kept moving jobs, performing better than other "perceived" more qualified people in interviews and kept improving myself.

langdang · 20-05-2010 09:22AM

kippy wrote: »

Is it the fault of the state that some Engineers working in Private industry are not being paid as well as they think they should?
If Engineers feel hard done by in their career they could use their engineering skills in the educational area.

At the end of the day and I have said this umpteen times, if you are not happy with your lot in your career or lack thereof, theres feck all point blaming anyone else. You need to re evaluate your career and education choices as well as what is important to you, then you make decisions based on that.

I wasn't saying x should be paid y, the wages are crap and I pretty much accept that. I'm saying the salaries paid to many engineers in the "smart economy" shows the government soundbites to be pure spoof. Not blaming the state for our wages, just for run-away rise of living costs for many years - they drove people out of the smart economy all along, you could have earned more using quarter of your brain in many other jobs. We're lucky we have a smart economy at all and there they are spoofing that the "smart economy" will save us all! They nearly killed it!

I happen to enjoy my work but I can only dream of some day earning what an operator in an ESB powerstation earns!

kippy · 20-05-2010 09:33AM

langdang wrote: »

I wasn't saying x should be paid y, the wages are crap and I pretty much accept that. I'm saying the salaries paid to many engineers in the "smart economy" shows the government soundbites to be pure spoof. Not blaming the state for our wages, just for run-away rise of living costs for many years - they drove people out of the smart economy all along, you could have earned more using quarter of your brain in many other jobs. We're lucky we have a smart economy at all and there they are spoofing that the "smart economy" will save us all! They nearly killed it!

I happen to enjoy my work but I can only dream of some day earning what an operator in an ESB powerstation earns!

I agree with the smark economy conjob. Its a lot of nonsense allright.

Sadly - years in college+experience does not always equal the highest wage.
Just as some of our politicians and their cronies on various boards and in various state agencies. Most of them havent arently exactly the most intelligent of people.
Take a look at some decisions made by said politicians for examples of such, and these guys are on serious money.

Offy · 20-05-2010 10:22AM

kippy wrote: »

I agree with the smark economy conjob. Its a lot of nonsense allright.

Honestly I dont feel I could put it better than that.

kippy wrote: »

Sadly - years in college+experience does not always equal the highest wage.

I know that, ten years ago I earned over €50k with just vocational qualifications, since I got the degree I havent earned anywhere near that.

kippy wrote: »

Just as some of our politicians and their cronies on various boards and in various state agencies. Most of them havent arently exactly the most intelligent of people.
Take a look at some decisions made by said politicians for examples of such, and these guys are on serious money.

Again I couldnt agree more. The point Im trying to make is that its these 'politicians and their cronies on various boards and in various state agencies' that are dictating to small Irish companies what to pay their employees. In order to get that 'serious money' they have to cut costs in the companies that they are involved with. Those cost cuts are why engineering wages are low in small Irish companies. Thats why I hold the government, in part, responsible for low engineering wages in Ireland.

Gurgle · 20-05-2010 10:29AM

Offy wrote: »

I recently quit a job that paid 34k... I now recieve €8 less a week on social welfare. My advice to young engineers:...

You're not qualified to give advice to anyone. You'd rather live on handouts than work for a decent wage.

My advice is: You should have stayed in that job until you learned enough to be useful. Then you would see the money going up.

Tora Bora · 20-05-2010 10:44AM

Offy wrote: »

I have a government pension and with it I can also claim Jobseekers Benefit. All in it works out at just over €600.
Ive twenty years experience in engineering and at that level €34k is an insult. I agreed to it for six months, not indefinitely. If the company in question paid rates that are reflected in the Engineers Ireland salary surveys (or anywhere near them) I would still be working for them.

I'm in human resources. First thing to get straight, is the quality of the graduates presenting themselves for interview with masters degrees in a whole range of engineering disciplines. They have the papers and they talk the talk, BUT when they get into the workplace, a significant percentage are not fit for purpose. Another significant percentage show good potential but have a long way to go, before they can justify anything above €22k. A minority are simply best of class and even if they start on €22k, will quickly get up the salary scale because they do the business.

Engineering graduates of all types need to start thinking low €20k's starting.

The boom is over. The days of cheap credit and easy money is over. Buisnesses are seriously focusing on cost and competitiveness. There is no logic in paying a graduate engineer in ROI more than similar guy in UK.

Welcome to the new real world.

Offy · 20-05-2010 10:58AM

Gurgle wrote: »

My advice is: You should have stayed in that job until you learned enough to be useful. Then you would see the money going up.

That assumption is based on what?

Offy · 20-05-2010 11:01AM

Tora Bora wrote: »

The boom is over. The days of cheap credit and easy money is over. Buisnesses are seriously focusing on cost and competitiveness. There is no logic in paying a graduate engineer in ROI more than similar guy in UK.

Welcome to the new real world.

With all due respect the cost of living in the UK is very different to the cost of living in Ireland. The low 20k's (of any other figure for that matter) will strech a lot further in the UK than it will in Ireland.

Wages

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