Wages

Gilligan.Mark

What would a new graduate Biomedical Engineer with a Masters expect to earn starting off?

Any experience? Because otherwise for a grad I'd put around the €30,000, and probably less.

Gilligan.Mark

a 5 month placement but that equats to nothing effectively

godtabh

I'd be more worried about getting the first job. Once you have that get the experience and then start worrying about salary.

Changes from industry to industry but the range is probably €25-35k but expect something at the lower end

Gilligan.Mark

Thanks for the info. Appreciate it

x in the city

Gilligan.Mark wrote: »

What would a new graduate Biomedical Engineer with a Masters expect to earn starting off?

salary below 30k is ridiculous tbh

kippy

x in the city wrote: »

salary below 30k is ridiculous tbh

Welcome to the real world.

Offy

x in the city wrote: »

salary below 30k is ridiculous tbh

Why are so many Irish people willing to settle for rubish wages? Do we Irish have no self respect? I recently saw a protest in Greece where someone was carrying a sign the read "We will not take this, we are not Irish". I recently quit a job that paid 34k, I was meant to recieve a pay rise after a six months trail period. Instead of a pay rise I was asked to wait another six months as the company wasnt doing well. The company not doing well did not stop the owner from taking a holiday in Florida in January. To make it absolutly clear to all, I now recieve €8 less a week on social welfare. My advice to young engineers: Never work for an Irish company or any company that Enterprise Ireland support. The wages are always low in my experience.

Aka Ishur

Offy wrote: »

Why are so many Irish people willing to settle for rubish wages? Do we Irish have no self respect? I recently saw a protest in Greece where someone was carrying a sign the read "We will not take this, we are not Irish". I recently quit a job that paid 34k, I was meant to recieve a pay rise after a six months trail period. Instead of a pay rise I was asked to wait another six months as the company wasnt doing well. The company not doing well did not stop the owner from taking a holiday in Florida in January. To make it absolutly clear to all, I now recieve €8 less a week on social welfare. My advice to young engineers: Never work for an Irish company or any company that Enterprise Ireland support. The wages are always low in my experience.

Bet you're proud every day to wake up so full of self respect. Did you put self respect in the job gap of your CV? And how do your references fare? Silly advice from a scrounger in my opinion.

CoalBucket

Offy wrote: »

I recently quit a job that paid 34k To make it absolutly clear to all, I now recieve €8 less a week on social welfare.

If it paid 34k a year even before tax it works out about €600 - €700 a week. Where are you signing on and getting €600 a week

Offy wrote: »

My advice to young engineers: Never work for an Irish company or any company that Enterprise Ireland support. The wages are always low in my experience.

Don't take this personally but I hope nobody takes your advice. For anybody to go on the live register voluntarily is an insult. Having been working in Engineering for over 12 years and been made redundant, my advice to young engineers is if you get a job, cherish it.

I was unemployed for nearly 5 months before getting work, not in Engineering, but I am damn glad to be back working.

mathew

I think I'd prefer to be getting the 8euro more and doing something I enjoy doing.
I'm spending 4 years + studying in college because I love engineering and want to do it.
Even if you dont enjoy it, Im sure going to work and interacting with people beats sitting on the couch all day sponging off the state.
Why not use the skill you spent 4 years of your life learning???

kippy

Offy wrote: »

Why are so many Irish people willing to settle for rubish wages? Do we Irish have no self respect? I recently saw a protest in Greece where someone was carrying a sign the read "We will not take this, we are not Irish". I recently quit a job that paid 34k, I was meant to recieve a pay rise after a six months trail period. Instead of a pay rise I was asked to wait another six months as the company wasnt doing well. The company not doing well did not stop the owner from taking a holiday in Florida in January. To make it absolutly clear to all, I now recieve €8 less a week on social welfare. My advice to young engineers: Never work for an Irish company or any company that Enterprise Ireland support. The wages are always low in my experience.

What is rubbish about 34K a year?
You'll that for the OP's skillset and experience thats a pretty decent wage in general and probably above average.
If you think that is a bad wage in Ireland I can almost guarantee you it is lower elsewhere for a similiar skillset and experience level. We do after all have some of the highest wages in the world, private AND public sector.

Offy

Aka Ishur wrote: »

Bet you're proud every day to wake up so full of self respect. Did you put self respect in the job gap of your CV? And how do your references fare? Silly advice from a scrounger in my opinion.

Insult the post not the poster dude, MOD time you stepped in?????

Offy

CoalBucket wrote: »

If it paid 34k a year even before tax it works out about €600 - €700 a week. Where are you signing on and getting €600 a week



Don't take this personally but I hope nobody takes your advice. For anybody to go on the live register voluntarily is an insult. Having been working in Engineering for over 12 years and been made redundant, my advice to young engineers is if you get a job, cherish it.

I was unemployed for nearly 5 months before getting work, not in Engineering, but I am damn glad to be back working.

I have a government pension and with it I can also claim Jobseekers Benefit. All in it works out at just over €600.
Ive twenty years experience in engineering and at that level €34k is an insult. I agreed to it for six months, not indefinitely. If the company in question paid rates that are reflected in the Engineers Ireland salary surveys (or anywhere near them) I would still be working for them.

Offy

mathew wrote: »

I think I'd prefer to be getting the 8euro more and doing something I enjoy doing.
I'm spending 4 years + studying in college because I love engineering and want to do it.
Even if you dont enjoy it, Im sure going to work and interacting with people beats sitting on the couch all day sponging off the state.
Why not use the skill you spent 4 years of your life learning???

4 years of my life? I have clocked up twice that in higher education since I did the leaving cert some twenty years ago.
Sponging of the state??? Are you trying to imply I shouldnt claim back on all the PRSI and tax Ive paid over the last twenty years? Not only do I think Im entitled to make a claim I know Im entitled to. Sorry if that rubs you the wrong way but look at it like this. The tax man is entitled to take tax from me when I am working so but what logic to you determine that I shouldnt take back what Im entitled to? By your logic the tax man is a sponger living off everyone hard work. Sponging off the state lol, the state never gave me anything for nothing.

mathew

i'm pretty sure thats not the purpose of tax....

langdang

Offy wrote: »

My advice to young engineers: Never work for an Irish company [.....]. The wages are always low in my experience.

I agree! Never mind the fact that many of them are run as personal fiefdoms rather than professional outfits.

Anyway, wages - smart economy my backside, how do you encourage intelligent people into science/technology/engineering, if after all their hard work in getting a technical degree and working a 39 hour week all year round, they find out that teacher with a pass degree in arse-ology and a Hdip is starting on more money, guaranteed increments and all summer off?

Woden

Offy wrote: »

Insult the post not the poster dude, MOD time you stepped in?????

Please do not back seat moderate. You used the appropriate channel for raising the issue already which I appreciate.

Lets keep it civil please folks.

Offy

mathew wrote: »

i'm pretty sure thats not the purpose of tax....

Actually it is one of the intended purposes of tax.
"PAYE stands for Pay As You Earn. As the name suggests, this means that every time your employer pays you your wages or salary he or she must deduct tax and pay it to Revenue. The PAYE system was devised to make it easier for employees, pensioners and directors to pay their tax by spreading the payment evenly over the tax year, rather than having to face a single tax bill once per year."
http://www.revenue.ie/en/personal/circumstances/moving/working-an-employer.html

Offy

Woden wrote: »

Please do not back seat moderate. You used the appropriate channel for raising the issue already which I appreciate.

Lets keep it civil please folks.

Apologies.

Stacks Mad

langdang wrote: »

I agree! Never mind the fact that many of them are run as personal fiefdoms rather than professional outfits.

Anyway, wages - smart economy my backside, how do you encourage intelligent people into science/technology/engineering, if after all their hard work in getting a technical degree and working a 39 hour week all year round, they find out that teacher with a pass degree in arse-ology and a Hdip is starting on more money, guaranteed increments and all summer off?

It really is depressing, having spent 4 years with no money in college and now am working in a medical device company for minimum wage , all I'll say is thank god for mammy!!
In op 25-30k starting off show me and Id give my body up for that wage as I'm so unhappy in my current job.
THANK GOD FOR DRINK!!!!!

kippy

langdang wrote: »

I agree! Never mind the fact that many of them are run as personal fiefdoms rather than professional outfits.

Anyway, wages - smart economy my backside, how do you encourage intelligent people into science/technology/engineering, if after all their hard work in getting a technical degree and working a 39 hour week all year round, they find out that teacher with a pass degree in arse-ology and a Hdip is starting on more money, guaranteed increments and all summer off?

Is it the fault of the state that some Engineers working in Private industry are not being paid as well as they think they should?
If Engineers feel hard done by in their career they could use their engineering skills in the educational area.


At the end of the day and I have said this umpteen times, if you are not happy with your lot in your career or lack thereof, theres feck all point blaming anyone else. You need to re evaluate your career and education choices as well as what is important to you, then you make decisions based on that.
Perhaps theres too many engineers out there for the number of jobs available, making it an employers market, if thats the case you need to diversify. I know of people who have changed career and career paths a number of times in their lives, its not easy but what do you want?

Offy

kippy wrote: »

Is it the fault of the state that some Engineers working in Private industry are not being paid as well as they think they should?

Partly yes, it is. They set the wages in the companies that they are supporting, not the company directors. UNLESS you dont need their money, then its solely down to the company directors. As the EI companies are getting employees at rock bottom prices others follow. Years of college should have some kind of reward at the end of it, whats the point if you can earn more money by not going to college?

kippy wrote: »

If Engineers feel hard done by in their career they could use their engineering skills in the educational area.

For some of us engineering is a vocation.

kippy wrote: »

At the end of the day and I have said this umpteen times, if you are not happy with your lot in your career or lack thereof, theres feck all point blaming anyone else. You need to re evaluate your career and education choices as well as what is important to you, then you make decisions based on that.

Thats exactly what I am doing, so as I am doing as you advise whats your problem? Perhaps you think Im unreasonable for not working full time and going to college full time? Or is it simply because Im willing to claim what Im entitled to. If that be the case perhaps politics would be a more suitable profession for you rather than engineering?

kippy wrote: »

Perhaps theres too many engineers out there for the number of jobs available, making it an employers market, if thats the case you need to diversify. I know of people who have changed career and career paths a number of times in their lives, its not easy but what do you want?

See above.

kippy

Offy wrote: »

Partly yes, it is. They set the wages in the companies that they are supporting, not the company directors. UNLESS you dont need their money, then its solely down to the company directors. As the EI companies are getting employees at rock bottom prices others follow. Years of college should have some kind of reward at the end of it, whats the point if you can earn more money by not going to college?


For some of us engineering is a vocation.


Thats exactly what I am doing, so as I am doing as you advise whats your problem? Perhaps you think Im unreasonable for not working full time and going to college full time? Or is it simply because Im willing to claim what Im entitled to. If that be the case perhaps politics would be a more suitable profession for you rather than engineering?


See above.

I dont get your first point at all. You are somehow "blaming" the State for the engineers in private industry earning less than they think they should?

I never said it wasnt a vocation for ye, just throwing in the education side of things as something else to try with yer vocation.

I amn't knocking you for claiming your social welfare when not working......I have not problem at all with that, I questioned your attitude earlier in the thread, that may have been unfair so I apologies.

I amn't a politician (not sure why this is relevant) and I am't an engineer.
I'm just someone who, after my leaving cert (in which I had no actual career guidance and hadnt seen a PC from one end of the year to the next) decided to do a science subject in college. I was woefully uninterested in the subject matter and dropped out, worked in a mundane job (building laptops) for a year, decided IT was for me.
Went back to college. Did a course where there was a segment of work experience. After two years I got a job back where I worked on work experience. Salary at the time, €15K (2001 was the year)(in Dublin) left after a while, moved into a few jobs, worked my ass off in them, spent as much of the companies money on professional exams and quals until about 4 years ago (2006) paying a massive 24K, despite me having numerous professional qualifications, experience and a college education. I finished that job in 2007 on about 28K but everything about the job bar the social life sucked. I moved on, and eventually got a job where I feel I am appreciated and paid accordingly, I work damn hard for it as well.

Spending 2.3.4 years in college does not, nor should it, guarantee anything.
Sure it may have in the few years we had some level of fake prosperity but in general it wont.
More and more people are highly skilled and qualified now, and there are more out there in one field over another, we are also in a recession and employers will cut what they can.
Thats the reality, I am sorry but thats tough on most people.

To me, for the majority of my working life 30K was well over what I earned, even taking inflation/deflation into account. I had college and professional certs AND at various stages of work experience, as well as everything else. I kept moving jobs, performing better than other "perceived" more qualified people in interviews and kept improving myself.

langdang

kippy wrote: »

Is it the fault of the state that some Engineers working in Private industry are not being paid as well as they think they should?
If Engineers feel hard done by in their career they could use their engineering skills in the educational area.

At the end of the day and I have said this umpteen times, if you are not happy with your lot in your career or lack thereof, theres feck all point blaming anyone else. You need to re evaluate your career and education choices as well as what is important to you, then you make decisions based on that.

I wasn't saying x should be paid y, the wages are crap and I pretty much accept that. I'm saying the salaries paid to many engineers in the "smart economy" shows the government soundbites to be pure spoof. Not blaming the state for our wages, just for run-away rise of living costs for many years - they drove people out of the smart economy all along, you could have earned more using quarter of your brain in many other jobs. We're lucky we have a smart economy at all and there they are spoofing that the "smart economy" will save us all! They nearly killed it!

I happen to enjoy my work but I can only dream of some day earning what an operator in an ESB powerstation earns!

kippy

langdang wrote: »

I wasn't saying x should be paid y, the wages are crap and I pretty much accept that. I'm saying the salaries paid to many engineers in the "smart economy" shows the government soundbites to be pure spoof. Not blaming the state for our wages, just for run-away rise of living costs for many years - they drove people out of the smart economy all along, you could have earned more using quarter of your brain in many other jobs. We're lucky we have a smart economy at all and there they are spoofing that the "smart economy" will save us all! They nearly killed it!

I happen to enjoy my work but I can only dream of some day earning what an operator in an ESB powerstation earns!

I agree with the smark economy conjob. Its a lot of nonsense allright.

Sadly - years in college+experience does not always equal the highest wage.
Just as some of our politicians and their cronies on various boards and in various state agencies. Most of them havent arently exactly the most intelligent of people.
Take a look at some decisions made by said politicians for examples of such, and these guys are on serious money.

Offy

kippy wrote: »

I agree with the smark economy conjob. Its a lot of nonsense allright.

Honestly I dont feel I could put it better than that.

kippy wrote: »

Sadly - years in college+experience does not always equal the highest wage.

I know that, ten years ago I earned over €50k with just vocational qualifications, since I got the degree I havent earned anywhere near that.

kippy wrote: »

Just as some of our politicians and their cronies on various boards and in various state agencies. Most of them havent arently exactly the most intelligent of people.
Take a look at some decisions made by said politicians for examples of such, and these guys are on serious money.

Again I couldnt agree more. The point Im trying to make is that its these 'politicians and their cronies on various boards and in various state agencies' that are dictating to small Irish companies what to pay their employees. In order to get that 'serious money' they have to cut costs in the companies that they are involved with. Those cost cuts are why engineering wages are low in small Irish companies. Thats why I hold the government, in part, responsible for low engineering wages in Ireland.

Gurgle

Offy wrote: »

I recently quit a job that paid 34k... I now recieve €8 less a week on social welfare. My advice to young engineers:...

You're not qualified to give advice to anyone. You'd rather live on handouts than work for a decent wage.

My advice is: You should have stayed in that job until you learned enough to be useful. Then you would see the money going up.

Tora Bora

Offy wrote: »

I have a government pension and with it I can also claim Jobseekers Benefit. All in it works out at just over €600.
Ive twenty years experience in engineering and at that level €34k is an insult. I agreed to it for six months, not indefinitely. If the company in question paid rates that are reflected in the Engineers Ireland salary surveys (or anywhere near them) I would still be working for them.

I'm in human resources. First thing to get straight, is the quality of the graduates presenting themselves for interview with masters degrees in a whole range of engineering disciplines. They have the papers and they talk the talk, BUT when they get into the workplace, a significant percentage are not fit for purpose. Another significant percentage show good potential but have a long way to go, before they can justify anything above €22k. A minority are simply best of class and even if they start on €22k, will quickly get up the salary scale because they do the business.

Engineering graduates of all types need to start thinking low €20k's starting.

The boom is over. The days of cheap credit and easy money is over. Buisnesses are seriously focusing on cost and competitiveness. There is no logic in paying a graduate engineer in ROI more than similar guy in UK.

Welcome to the new real world.

Offy

Gurgle wrote: »

My advice is: You should have stayed in that job until you learned enough to be useful. Then you would see the money going up.

That assumption is based on what?

Offy

Tora Bora wrote: »

The boom is over. The days of cheap credit and easy money is over. Buisnesses are seriously focusing on cost and competitiveness. There is no logic in paying a graduate engineer in ROI more than similar guy in UK.

Welcome to the new real world.

With all due respect the cost of living in the UK is very different to the cost of living in Ireland. The low 20k's (of any other figure for that matter) will strech a lot further in the UK than it will in Ireland.

PeakOutput

Are you trying to imply I shouldnt claim back on all the PRSI and tax Ive paid over the last twenty years?

correct

Offy wrote: »

The tax man is entitled to take tax from me when I am working so but what logic to you determine that I shouldnt take back what Im entitled to?

you chose to leave your job you shouldnt be entitled to anything

By your logic the tax man is a sponger living off everyone hard work. Sponging off the state lol, the state never gave me anything for nothing.

was primary and secondary education not free when you attended? when did free college fees come in?

i guess you dont use the roads and bridges or any public transport or anything like that either

For some of us engineering is a vocation.

not for you though seen as your willing to give it up so easily

Thats exactly what I am doing, so as I am doing as you advise whats your problem?

you should pay for it yourself

i was pretty sure that if you left a job voluntarily you werent entitled to **** from the dole, if that is not the case it certainly should be

Offy

PeakOutput wrote: »

correct



you chose to leave your job you shouldnt be entitled to anything



was primary and secondary education not free when you attended? when did free college fees come in?

i guess you dont use the roads and bridges or any public transport or anything like that either



not for you though seen as your willing to give it up so easily



you should pay for it yourself

i was pretty sure that if you left a job voluntarily you werent entitled to **** from the dole, if that is not the case it certainly should be

ehh ya ok, lets just agree to disagree.

Gurgle

Offy wrote: »

That assumption is based on what?

12 years working in engineering, performance related pay increments and grade progression and one instance of 'I'm off' being answered with 'how much to stay?'.

There is no excuse for quitting a €34k job to live on welfare. The fact that its both possible and financially viable is the very definition of whats wrong with this country in general and the welfare system in particular.

You wouldn't have been so quick to pack in that job if you were going to be doing community work to qualify for your welfare payments.

Maybe I have too much pride, wanting to pay my own way through life, but I would rather (and have done) manual labour for minimum wage than claim welfare.

Offy

Gurgle wrote: »

12 years working in engineering, performance related pay increments and grade progression and one instance of 'I'm off' being answered with 'how much to stay?'.

If you read through this thread you will see I was only with that company for just over a year. I told the company at the interview stage that I was going to be returning to college and asked if that would be a problem to do as an employee. They said it wasnt a problem and one of their engineers had just completed his masters while working for them. I was asked to wait a year before applying and I agreed. Then the company started to loose money so that was scraped. I accepted a low wage because I wanted a masters, once the masters was ruled out I saw no reason to stay. Added to that people were been let go so I decided to make other plans. The project I was working on was through testing and about to be put on an assembly line. They spent four years working on this project before I started working for them. At the end of the four years they had a prototype that didnt function or meet BS standards. I spent a year making changes. Now they have a product that passes BS standards and functions as intended. You can accuse me of been useless all you like but the fact of the matter is I gave the company exactly what they asked for. A product that functions to specification and meets BS standards which is something none of the other engineers that worked on that project could do. The projest I was working on was through testing and about to be put on an assembly line. In the twenty plus years that the company is operating they have only designed three of these devices that went to market so there was little point in me staying, they probably wont design another of those devices for years to come and it is a very specilist field of engineering. This company is owned by a man that writes BS standards so they know their stuff. I did what they couldnt do so if I am a useless engineer then what does that make the other engineers that worked on that project? Based on that achievement alone I totally dismiss your accusation.

Gurgle wrote: »

There is no excuse for quitting a €34k job to live on welfare. The fact that its both possible and financially viable is the very definition of whats wrong with this country in general and the welfare system in particular.

Im not making excuses, Im stating facts. Perhaps that is exactly whats wrong with this country, perhaps not.

Gurgle wrote: »

You wouldn't have been so quick to pack in that job if you were going to be doing community work to qualify for your welfare payments.

If circumstances were different of course my decisions would be different. But there not!

Gurgle wrote: »

Maybe I have too much pride, wanting to pay my own way through life, but I would rather (and have done) manual labour for minimum wage than claim welfare.

To much pride can be a bad thing.

Gurgle

Offy wrote: »

At the end of the four years they had a prototype that didnt function or meet BS standards. I spent a year making changes. Now they have a product that passes BS standards and functions as intended. You can accuse me of been useless all you like but the fact of the matter is I gave the company exactly what they asked for.

I am fully aware of the issues involved in getting products to comply with standards. I respectfully withdraw the implication that you were useless, there were some leftovers stuck in my head from another thread.

However I stand by my other comments, an underpaid job is better than no job.

Offy wrote: »

To much pride can be a bad thing.

In this circumstance?

Turbulent Bill

Tora Bora wrote: »

I'm in human resources. First thing to get straight, is the quality of the graduates presenting themselves for interview with masters degrees in a whole range of engineering disciplines. They have the papers and they talk the talk, BUT when they get into the workplace, a significant percentage are not fit for purpose. Another significant percentage show good potential but have a long way to go, before they can justify anything above €22k. A minority are simply best of class and even if they start on €22k, will quickly get up the salary scale because they do the business.

Engineering graduates of all types need to start thinking low €20k's starting.

The boom is over. The days of cheap credit and easy money is over. Buisnesses are seriously focusing on cost and competitiveness. There is no logic in paying a graduate engineer in ROI more than similar guy in UK.

Welcome to the new real world.

I'd agree with 'pay for performance' in theory (especially for inexperienced staff), but in the vast majority of companies employees who start on low salaries stay on low salaries, and people are well aware of this. Assuming that a graduate is 30% more efficient/valuable/productive at the end of their first year (rough guess), I find it hard to believe that they climb the salary scale at the same rate.

In the long term depressing salaries will lead to an engineering brain-drain, as people turn to better-earning and easier-to-perform alternatives. There's a few years of cheap unemployed engineers left, but why would the next generation sign up for engineering, even as a vocation, for €22k?

x in the city

x in the city wrote: »

salary below 30k is ridiculous tbh

There are engineers with a couple of years experience on less in med devices and pharma companies throughout the country.

Turbulent Bill

Offy wrote: »

I told the company at the interview stage that I was going to be returning to college and asked if that would be a problem to do as an employee. They said it wasnt a problem and one of their engineers had just completed his masters while working for them. I was asked to wait a year before applying and I agreed. Then the company started to loose money so that was scraped. I accepted a low wage because I wanted a masters, once the masters was ruled out I saw no reason to stay.

This is the kernel of it. Most engineering companies now have to cut costs, and training/CPD is always one of the first of these. From the sounds of it the company agreed to the masters in good faith, got caught in the recession and had to change plan - that's just life.

It's a sad reflection both on the economy and the social welfare system that you can walk away from a €34k job and be no worse off. I don't blame you for doing it, but it shouldn't be possible in the first place. Personally I would have stuck with the job, in order to feel productive, keep skills, earn my keep etc.

You sound like you like engineering - do the masters and voluntary work until you find a suitably paid job?

BeeDI

If I were to leave a €30k plus job, no matter what the circumstances, I would have to have a screw loose ........... in fact I would have to have the entire mechanism keeping my little brain inside my skull, completely displaced from its anchor :rolleyes:

Of course that would not apply to clever guys, who know infinitely more than I would!

Still though, I'm right in this one. :D:D

kippy

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

I'd agree with 'pay for performance' in theory (especially for inexperienced staff), but in the vast majority of companies employees who start on low salaries stay on low salaries, and people are well aware of this. Assuming that a graduate is 30% more efficient/valuable/productive at the end of their first year (rough guess), I find it hard to believe that they climb the salary scale at the same rate.

In the long term depressing salaries will lead to an engineering brain-drain, as people turn to better-earning and easier-to-perform alternatives. There's a few years of cheap unemployed engineers left, but why would the next generation sign up for engineering, even as a vocation, for €22k?

I'd agree with your first point, based on personal experience.
That means that you need to move companies early in your career to get the best wages until you find one where you'll be well rewarded at. Thats not just an engineering thing either.

Offy

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

This is the kernel of it. Most engineering companies now have to cut costs, and training/CPD is always one of the first of these. From the sounds of it the company agreed to the masters in good faith, got caught in the recession and had to change plan - that's just life.

It's a sad reflection both on the economy and the social welfare system that you can walk away from a €34k job and be no worse off. I don't blame you for doing it, but it shouldn't be possible in the first place. Personally I would have stuck with the job, in order to feel productive, keep skills, earn my keep etc.

You sound like you like engineering - do the masters and voluntary work until you find a suitably paid job?

Would you believe that I have offered to do exactly that with a few local engineering companies, only one has gotten back to me so far and that was a rejection.

Offy

kippy wrote: »

I'd agree with your first point, based on personal experience.
That means that you need to move companies early in your career to get the best wages until you find one where you'll be well rewarded at. Thats not just an engineering thing either.

Thats why I left!!! I started on a low wage, they broke the agreement (not through any fault of their own) and Im not willing to put my education on the back burner for another year or 2 years or 3 years or whatever it takes for that company to recover. As a long term prospect I dont see anything appealing about working there and Im not getting any younger.

Gurgle

kippy wrote: »

That means that you need to move companies early in your career to get the best wages until you find one where you'll be well rewarded at.

Traditionally, the done thing is to stay in your current job until you've found another one to go to.

kippy

Gurgle wrote: »

Traditionally, the done thing is to stay in your current job until you've found another one to go to.

Yep,
Completely aware of that and I appreciate the relevance of that comment in the context of this post.

Offy

Gurgle wrote: »

Traditionally, the done thing is to stay in your current job until you've found another one to go to.

So Im not traditional! Look Gurgle and kippy we both have different views on wages in Ireland, lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that? At the end of the day I havent broken any laws or rules by quitting a job and as far as Im concerned Id sooner focus on my education than my career. I apprecate that not everyone is addicted to education but I am. Another way of looking at this situation if you like is this:
The company identified a specialist need for one of their products. They sucessfully recruited an engineer that could meet those needs. Once the need was meet I was no longer required. Any other tasks that were assigned to me could be better completed by their existing engineers. They are letting people go and having to pay redundancies, by quitting I saved them that extra payment. I also created an opening for an engineer that could serve their present needs with greater efficiency and expertise that I could should they decide they require someone to fill my boots. As I said earlier they only ever brought three of these devices to market and the new device meets the new standard. That standard might not be changed for years to come. Until it is they dont need someone with my skill set. They gave me a nice reference too so they dont seem to upset with me leaving. Thats the way it is no matter if you like it or not.
On a separate issue, if anyone doesnt like the fact that Im entitled to claim of social welfare then take it up with politicians, I didnt create the system that we live in so I dont accept responsibility for it. Having a go at me because I use the system to my advantage will not stop me using the system nor will it change the system.

kippy

Offy wrote: »

So Im not traditional! Look Gurgle and kippy we both have different views on wages in Ireland, lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that? At the end of the day I havent broken any laws or rules by quitting a job and as far as Im concerned Id sooner focus on my education than my career. I apprecate that not everyone is addicted to education but I am. Another way of looking at this situation if you like is this:
The company identified a specialist need for one of their products. They sucessfully recruited an engineer that could meet those needs. Once the need was meet I was no longer required. Any other tasks that were assigned to me could be better completed by their existing engineers. They are letting people go and having to pay redundancies, by quitting I saved them that extra payment. I also created an opening for an engineer that could serve their present needs with greater efficiency and expertise that I could should they decide they require someone to fill my boots. As I said earlier they only ever brought three of these devices to market and the new device meets the new standard. That standard might not be changed for years to come. Until it is they dont need someone with my skill set. They gave me a nice reference too so they dont seem to upset with me leaving. Thats the way it is no matter if you like it or not.
On a separate issue, if anyone doesnt like the fact that Im entitled to claim of social welfare then take it up with politicians, I didnt create the system that we live in so I dont accept responsibility for it. Having a go at me because I use the system to my advantage will not stop me using the system nor will it change the system.

To be honest with you, the whole attitude seems to be worse than that of the worst of the public servants I have met. One word, entltement, both in your work live and social welfare dealings.

Offy

kippy wrote: »

To be honest with you, the whole attitude seems to be worse than that of the worst of the public servants I have met. One word, entltement, both in your work live and social welfare dealings.

Offy exits stage left.
Bye.