Confirmation: FF are an anti-democratic party

steelcityblues · 05-05-2010 07:57PM #1

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0505/breaking63.html

Confirmation, or indeed the final confirmation, that when those who have said long before me on these boards that FF do not really accept the democratic mandate, were not engaging in hyperbole!

The former TD in Donegal SW has returned to the Brussels gravy train for nearly a year and yet the date for individual voters to express their mandate needs more time? Bull!

I wonder how many people who still had quiet thoughts of voting for FF changed their mind based on tonight's vote.

If anyone is passing Leinster House, make sure an FFer gets a good verbal roasting before they escape!

Scarab80 · 05-05-2010 08:06PM

There is a serious flaw in our constitution if it allows for a seat to be left empty for this amount of time.

Cowen is unbelieveable "It is a matter for the House to decide these matters. It is not a matter for Government", yet the house votes under the whip!

Apart from 2 eejits who pressed the wrong button!

“The two of us were located side-by-side. We were talking. We’d arrived late and we pressed the wrong button.”

That says it all really.

danman · 05-05-2010 08:07PM

I'd love to see this by-election.
SF seem to think that they have it in the bag, considering Pearse Doherty just missed out in the last GE.

But they fail to see that in a by-election, all the votesare for only 1 seat.
He got a lot of first preferances in the GE, but very little transfers.

I'm not sure about this, can someone confirm, but is the quota larger in a by-election?
So the winner will depend on transfers.

There are too many FG and FF voters in Donegal to allow a SFer to win.

Pearse Doherty has more chance during the GE, but a bad result in a "by" may be counterproductive to SF in a following GE.

SeaFields · 05-05-2010 08:15PM

Add this to a very long list of things that will be put before the people when there is a new government (provided it ain't the shower that are in there now!)...exactly what Caoimhín O Caoláin said this evening....i.e. a change in the Constitution so that a by-election will be held within a fixed time period of a seat being vacated.

All of these things need to be changed to that they wont be at the disposal of FF if they ever get into government again.

The opposition and media need to put serious pressure for these election to be held.

Fratton Fred · 05-05-2010 08:15PM

Does this mean we are saving one TD's wages?

Sounds like a win if we are.

Essexboy · 05-05-2010 08:22PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Does this mean we are saving one TD's wages?

Sounds like a win if we are.

But we are losing on a Ministerial and TD's pensions!

PS The word is CRESCENT

Scarab80 · 05-05-2010 08:28PM

danman wrote: »

I'm not sure about this, can someone confirm, but is the quota larger in a by-election?
So the winner will depend on transfers.

Yes the quota is the number of votes divided by the number of seats plus one.

rightwingdub · 05-05-2010 09:52PM

We have too many TDS in this country full stop. The government shouldn't even call for aby election, Donegal south west is adequately represented with the idiot Coughlan and McGinley.

Overheal · 05-05-2010 10:03PM

Scarab80 wrote: »

“The two of us were located side-by-side. We were talking. We’d arrived late and we pressed the wrong button.”

"We don't know how to operate a simple mechano-electronic device, we dont know what we're voting on, and we don't have the decency to arrive on time for that thing that we didnt know what it was."

I either call bullsh!t or hope for their sakes they remember which pedal is the brake on their way home.

Liam Byrne · 05-05-2010 10:34PM

Overheal wrote: »

I either call bullsh!t or hope for their sakes they remember which pedal is the brake on their way home.

Or which side of the dual-carraigeway to drive on.......oh hang on - he was probably at home dossing again......

Gurgle · 06-05-2010 08:57AM

Tis possible I'm misinformed, but 3 seats going to anyone but FF would put the government on the very brink, right?

Biggins · 06-05-2010 09:33AM

I'm disgusted to the core of their actions - and whats more I have stated so on my site (www.unitedpeople.ie).
Its absolutely disgusting - I might be wrong in my words used but its the way I feel!

Pigs - the whole lot of them!

Eliot Rosewater · 06-05-2010 09:36AM

I wouldn't imagine so. The Government tied this vote, but if the two FF members had voted the correct way it would have been a margin of 4 votes. Thus an extra 3 seats for the opposition will still eave them with a 1 vote margin.

That is to ignore everyone else that didn't turn up.

Liam Byrne · 06-05-2010 09:37AM

Gurgle wrote: »

Tis possible I'm misinformed, but 3 seats going to anyone but FF would put the government on the very brink, right?

One would suspect that this is the reasoning behind Cowen's refusal to hold the by-election.

I would definitely swear that if it were the other way around that FF would be screaming blue murder and corruption, two-faced hypocrites that they are.

Sulmac · 06-05-2010 11:19AM

If there is going to be a referendum on the children's rights amendment to the Constitution and/or the Dublin mayoral election later this year, they will have a very difficult time trying to justify not holding the three outstanding by-elections (Donegal South-West, Dublin South, Waterford) on the same day. That's not to say they won't try though.

Liam Byrne · 06-05-2010 11:21AM

I also can't help wondering why none of the FF members came out and admitted that they "voted the wrong way" on NAMA or Anglo....

Can we have a re-vote on those, just in case there's an outbreak of ethics in FF at the mo ?

MrDarcy · 06-05-2010 12:02PM

This electronic voting mistake in the Dail yesterday could have opened up a whole constitutional can of worms if the motion had been defeated, accidently or not... The constitution states that the Taoiseach MUST go to the Aras and seek a dissolution of the Dail from the president if he or she loses the support of the majority of Dail Eireann.

It would been interesting to see how this panned out if the motion yesterday had been defeated, albeit accidently. The constitutional imperative placed upon the Taoiseach to go to the President if defeated in a motion brought before the Dail seems to be absolute and there doesn't seem to be a provision for "ah I pressed the wrong button"...

Laminations · 06-05-2010 12:09PM

I'd like to see one of the FF fanboys come on here and defend this bull from the government. Total contempt for the electorate in a effort to hold power. Another example of party before country.

steelcityblues · 06-05-2010 12:11PM

If only George Lee didn't leave in a huff a few months ago!

mike65 · 06-05-2010 12:14PM

The opposition can't move another motion on Donegal SW for 6 months but they can move on Dublin South East and Waterford and so should do so over the next two weeks.

amen · 06-05-2010 12:33PM

The constitution states that the Taoiseach MUST go to the Aras and seek a dissolution of the Dail from the president if he or she loses the support of the majority of Dail Eireann

I believe that is only in the case of a finance bill proposed by the government.

TDs can propose private member bills which can pass/fail but have no effect on the government

scr123 · 06-05-2010 01:53PM

I do sincerely wish contributors to message boards such as this would take a break from the chair and the computer and pay a visit to the real world of politics and economics.
We elect 166 people to form a government to run our country and its my belief our politicians do this to the best of their ability. We engage in a lot of party politics nonsense but at the end of the day our politicians are united in the belief the country comes first. We have problems now and no matter what party is in power those problems have to be tackled, the solutions applied will essentially be the same from all the parties.
Holding 3 bye-elections now will be highly disruptive and costly and if the truth were told unnecessary as the constituencies involved are fully represented. My gut feeling is the government will get another Budget trhough the Dail and then go to the country. They will do so in a manner that will be helpful to the Green Party who have been so heroic in putting the country first. I say this even though staunch FF

steelcityblues · 06-05-2010 01:55PM

scr123 wrote: »

I do sincerely wish contributors to message boards such as this would take a break from the chair and the computer and pay a visit to the real world of politics and economics.
We elect 166 people to form a government to run our country and its my belief our politicians do this to the best of their ability. We engage in a lot of party politics nonsense but at the end of the day our politicians are united in the belief the country comes first. We have problems now and no matter what party is in power those problems have to be tackled, the solutions applied will essentially be the same from all the parties.
Holding 3 bye-elections now will be highly disruptive and costly and if the truth were told unnecessary as the constituencies involved are fully represented. My gut feeling is the government will get another Budget trhough the Dail and then go to the country. They will do so in a manner that will be helpful to the Green Party who have been so heroic in putting the country first. I say this even though staunch FF

"This message has been approved by the friends and supporters of Brian Cowen!"

mike65 · 06-05-2010 01:56PM

*bursts out laughing*

/did you trek over from P.ie by any chance?

Biggins · 06-05-2010 01:56PM

scr123 wrote: »

I do sincerely wish contributors to message boards such as this would take a break from the chair and the computer and pay a visit to the real world of politics and economics.
We elect 166 people to form a government to run our country and its my belief our politicians do this to the best of their ability. We engage in a lot of party politics nonsense but at the end of the day our politicians are united in the belief the country comes first. We have problems now and no matter what party is in power those problems have to be tackled, the solutions applied will essentially be the same from all the parties.
Holding 3 bye-elections now will be highly disruptive and costly and if the truth were told unnecessary as the constituencies involved are fully represented. My gut feeling is the government will get another Budget trhough the Dail and then go to the country. They will do so in a manner that will be helpful to the Green Party who have been so heroic in putting the country first. I say this even though staunch FF

* sigh *

Still can't believe FF voters are that non-open to alternative views of their leaders actions.
It's like a horse wearing blinkers.

Nijmegen · 06-05-2010 02:06PM

scr123 wrote: »

I do sincerely wish contributors to message boards such as this would take a break from the chair and the computer and pay a visit to the real world of politics and economics.
We elect 166 people to form a government to run our country and its my belief our politicians do this to the best of their ability. We engage in a lot of party politics nonsense but at the end of the day our politicians are united in the belief the country comes first. We have problems now and no matter what party is in power those problems have to be tackled, the solutions applied will essentially be the same from all the parties.
Holding 3 bye-elections now will be highly disruptive and costly and if the truth were told unnecessary as the constituencies involved are fully represented. My gut feeling is the government will get another Budget trhough the Dail and then go to the country. They will do so in a manner that will be helpful to the Green Party who have been so heroic in putting the country first. I say this even though staunch FF

It is our constitutional right to have full representation in every constituency as mandated by the rules.

It is not up for discussion whether or not one has an opinion on whether or not a constituency is properly represented. It is enshrined in the constitution and the laws of this country that we all deserve representation, and what that representation should consist of.

What is being done here is a loophole is being used to prevent the government majority from slimming further.

At this point things are so tight that if a FF TD took a heart attack he'd probably be wheeled into the Dail on a drip to cast votes.

Laminations · 06-05-2010 02:30PM

Laminations wrote: »

I'd like to see one of the FF fanboys come on here and defend this bull from the government.

scr123 wrote: »

We elect 166 people to form a government to run our country and its my belief our politicians do this to the best of their ability. We engage in a lot of party politics nonsense but at the end of the day our politicians are united in the belief the country comes first. We have problems now and no matter what party is in power those problems have to be tackled, the solutions applied will essentially be the same from all the parties.
Holding 3 bye-elections now will be highly disruptive and costly and if the truth were told unnecessary as the constituencies involved are fully represented. F

I should be careful what I wish for!! Your justification of the government bending the constitutional rights of the people is heart warming. Keep up the good work

Overheal · 06-05-2010 02:36PM

Biggins wrote: »

I'm disgusted to the core of their actions - and whats more I have stated so on my site (www.unitedpeople.ie).

I couldnt peg it for a while... but that picture of Gormley reminds me of Hannibal Lecter.

Liam Byrne · 06-05-2010 02:46PM

scr123 wrote: »

Holding 3 bye-elections now will be highly disruptive and costly and if the truth were told unnecessary as the constituencies involved are fully represented.

Define "fully represented" ?

scr123 wrote: »

They will do so in a manner that will be helpful to the Green Party who have been so heroic in putting the country first. I say this even though staunch FF

Hmmm.....interesting interpretation of "putting the country first".

Is there any chance that this opinion is because you are staunch FF, given that it has kept them in power ?

Skrynesaver · 06-05-2010 03:18PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Define "fully represented" ?

Sure haven't they sweary Mary and the good Doctor Jim, why would they need another representative :mad:

DeVore · 06-05-2010 05:33PM

Weird thing is.... right now, even this government is better then no government. We need the pretence of having our sh*t together. An election now would be a disaster (and God knows I want an election!).

You don't change horses mid-apocalypse.

DeV

Confirmation: FF are an anti-democratic party

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