Should Irish be mandatory at second level?

Hank_Jones · 29-04-2010 08:10PM

It should certainly be mandatory. Regardless of how little people use it, it is still our national language and is a major part of our heritage.
I haven't used leaving cert maths since I left school, does that mean I should have been able to drop that?
I do think that they should be pushing foreign languages more to the fore though.
Really wish I was fluent in French at this stage, or at least some foreign language,
that's the problem with speaking English, you can get away with not having to learn any other language.

Seaneh · 29-04-2010 08:10PM

It should not be thought in primary schools (except gaelscoils) at all.

It should be introduced at secondary level but only as an option. It should be thought conversationally until junior cert and then in the last two years introduce the grammar etc.

When you learn to speak any language you learn it quicker when you speak it first before getting caught up in grammatical structures.

SomeFool · 29-04-2010 08:23PM

I think one language (with english) of the students choice would be a better system than forcing an unused language on uninterested pupils. Being able to speak a major european language is a far greater asset to somebody leaving school and looking for a job than a background in Irish is.

whadabouchasir · 29-04-2010 08:33PM

IMO if it was made optional then feck all people would do it.this year i did chemistry through Irish as one of my modules in college.Of the few hundred people that could have done it less than ten actually sat an exam in it.Even less did physics through Irish.

eightyfish · 29-04-2010 09:00PM

Absoultely hated being forced to learn useless Irish for the leaving. I wanted to go to UCD and to do an IT degree at the time (1999), and you had to have pass Irish as a minimum. To study computers FFS!

Anyway, I achieved a good leaving cert apart from an awful Irish result. I ended up waiting until I was a mature student to go to college. The experience has made me detest the Irish language deep in my bones. If it wasn't compulsory, I probably wouldn't feel this way.

Noreen1 · 29-04-2010 09:04PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

I don't even know what "Ciúnis Bothar Cailín Bainne" means....

It means Silence Road Girl Milk.

:D
On the other hand, you scored 75% for spelling.

I think it should remain compulsory up to Junior cert level. I also think that the literature should be dropped entirely. Like most others who support Irish, I believe the focus needs to be on conversational Irish. When you can speak a language, the grammar comes naturally.

I actually had a conversation with someone, mainly through Irish, a couple of weeks ago. What made this conversation unusual was the fact that this man moved to the area, and didn't speak a word of Irish.
He decided to learn Irish, persuaded some native speakers with whom he was working to speak to him only in Irish, and was capable of having a conversation through Irish, with a native speaker, in a matter of months!

It can be done!

Noreen

Creed Bratton · 29-04-2010 09:18PM

I think the government is trying to encourage the improvement of spoken Irish because the orals for the Leaving Cert are going to be worth 40% of the test from next year which is good compared to the 15% it is now.

Fukuyama · 29-04-2010 10:24PM

dlofnep wrote: »

Speak for yourself. I'm an Irish speaker, and I see the merit in optional Irish for the leaving cert. I'm more interested in the Irish curriculum being revamped to focus on spoken Irish, rather than wasting their time of poetry.

When the population of Ireland has a firm grasp of the Irish language, then we can worry about poetry. But right now - the only priority should be to at least allow children to have the ability to speak it.

What he said.

Chuchoter · 29-04-2010 10:41PM

It should be mandatory to learn a language of some kind, but bonus points should be given if you take honours Irish. I'm not saying this because I hate Irish either, I'm actually pretty good, I just think its stupid most of class time is taken up by people who aren't in the slightest bit interested in learning it.

Riddle101 · 29-04-2010 10:45PM

Irish should be just as mandatory as English. It is after all our native language. You could make arguments about it, but I still think it should be mandatory. You wouldn't see any other country putting little emphasis on their language.

LpPepper · 29-04-2010 11:13PM

I think it should be optional . Im in 3rd year atm and the course and exams are layed out as if Irish is your main language , even though its not . Like in the papers they have questions on poems and stories like english where they should make it like german and french with comprehensions and letters and notes.

It shouldnt be compulsary and should be optional as its just expected you speaker fluent irish

Thats what i think anyway being a current JC student

Risteard · 29-04-2010 11:15PM

I think it should be mandatory until Junior Cert and that the course should all be about grammar and oral. For the leaving cert it should be optional.

Noreen1 · 30-04-2010 12:33PM

Sitec wrote: »

I think they should have a choice between German, French or Irish. That way everyone wins. You can still do Irish if you want too.

If the choice were between German, French, or Irish, it would only serve to write Irish off entirely as an option for those considering third level education, since most (if not all?) colleges have a foreign language at leaving cert level as an entry requirement.

Noreen

PeterIanStaker · 30-04-2010 12:53PM

Riddle101 wrote: »

You wouldn't see any other country putting little emphasis on their language.

Very few countries are encouraged to hate themselves by their own media as much as we are.

Mike 1972 · 30-04-2010 02:29PM

Riddle101 wrote: »

Irish should be just as mandatory as English. It is after all our native language.

No its not !

DingChavez · 30-04-2010 02:49PM

Irish should be mandatory but they should change the curriculum so its all spoken.

I remember Irish in school was just learning off vocalubary and memorising essays or ****ty poems so you can pass the test. It was a load of crap. It annoys me how badly its taught.

kuntboy · 30-04-2010 03:10PM

Every Irish teacher I ever had was a complete psycho who would fly into a crazed rage when returning bad homework. They had no patience and couldn't understand why everyone else didn't love the language and all the gaelgorie "oirish" bo11ox that went with it. What a waste of time. How dare you waste our time with your jingoistic political agenda. How fukcing dare you. Other countries laugh at us, as usual.

Noreen1 · 30-04-2010 03:13PM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

No its not !

Why ever not?

Noreen

Jim236 · 30-04-2010 03:15PM

Definitely, its our native language and the 1st official language of the country. Its a huge part of our identity and even though most people don't speak it as their first language, we see it every day around us in sport, the media etc.

Its one of the few things that separates us from our British neighbours and makes us different and we should try retain it as much as possible and not let it slip away.

But that said, the way the language is being taught needs to completely change. They need to separate Irish into 2 subjects - Oral and written Irish, and Irish literature. Its stupid that students are expected to learn the same level of literature as Gaeilge as they are in English. The oral and written Irish subject should then be mandatory, and will put a large emphasis on actually speaking the language and knowing how to write it. Students can then take up Irish literature as an optional subject if they want.

Mike 1972 · 30-04-2010 03:19PM

Because (like most people born in Ireland) English is my native language.

Jim236 · 30-04-2010 03:27PM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Because (like most people born in Ireland) English is my native language.

What makes you think you can speak for the people of Ireland? Yeh don't speak for me anyway...

OxfordComma · 30-04-2010 03:32PM

I don't think Irish should be mandatory (certainly not for the Leaving Cert, anyways), unless of course the curriculum is HEAVILY modified - get rid of all the mind-numbingly boring poetry, drama and novels, and start teaching it properly.

Forcing people to study a boring and outmoded syllabus in an attempt to "make people speak Irish" makes absolutely no sense. It's kind of like, "Ok, very few people speak Irish in normal situations, so let's sort this out by forcing people to study an impractical and uninteresting Irish syllabus!" It's totally illogical. If people really want Irish to become a commonly used, living language, then start teaching students properly! I did HL Irish for the LC, and I'm pretty much incapable of having a conversation in Irish with someone.

I still don't think Irish should be mandatory though - it has been for decades now, and hasn't actually made the use of Irish in day to day life any more common. I completely empathise with people who are immensely sad that our native language is dying out, but trying to keep Irish alive through a boring and unappealing curriculum isn't going to work.

Mike 1972 · 30-04-2010 03:35PM

Jim236 wrote: »

What makes you think you can speak for the people of Ireland? Yeh don't speak for me anyway...

Where did I suggest that I did ? I never claimed to unlike one or two posters above .....

Riddle101 wrote: »

It is after all our native language.

Noreen1 · 30-04-2010 03:35PM

Fair enough. English may be your native language - Irish is mine. Why don't we both just accept that Irish is the National language of Ireland - will that be acceptable?

Noreen

BlaasForRafa · 30-04-2010 03:38PM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Because (like most people born in Ireland) English is my native language.

Absolutely, learning Irish was a complete waste of time. Beyond "An bhfuil cead agam dul go dti an leithreas" I couldn't utter a sentance of Irish. Secondary school was particularly awful as we had a succession of deranged individuals trying to teach us who had obviously been driven mad by decades of indifference, those who went to a particular school in Blaatown might remember "Click", "Rocks" and "The Lizard"

Forcing people to learn utter sh*te like Peig and the poetry of Padraic O Conaire was completely pointless when the vast majority of the class could barely speak or write the language and had less than zero interest. The only thing that I can remember about Peig is that she had a couple of dozen sons who kept falling off cliffs.

Jim236 · 30-04-2010 03:47PM

BlaasForRafa, that seems to be the problem. Its the literature thats turning so many students off learning the language. Most of the people I've talked to about this say they'd love to be fluent in Irish but never liked it at school. Thats where it needs to change, they need to get rid of the literature aspect of the subject, and have that as a separate subject by itself which students can take up as an option like geography, history, engineering etc.

To say the language itself though is a waste of time is way off the mark. Its a huge part of our identity, and something we take for granted for still being around. Without Irish, we'd be no different to Britain, because its not just the language that separates us, but everything thats based around the language such as the GAA etc. Even the dialect of English we all speak uses phrases from the Irish language.

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Where did I suggest that I did ? I never claimed to unlike one or two posters above .....

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Because (like most people born in Ireland) English is my native language.

English might be your native language, but Irish is mine.

bigbadbear · 30-04-2010 03:48PM

Who didn't hate it in school?? People only see it as a good thing when they leave school and grow up. Its not there to help you when you need to use it.

It's there because it's our language and part of what is Irish History. Its also a wonderful language in structure and use of phrases.

Its a pity the way it is thought in our schools. I say start teaching it like the European languages are thought. if you want to study Irish folklore or things like that then you should choose to do it yourself.

I also think the poll is slightly biased due to the nature of boards.

Mike 1972 · 30-04-2010 03:53PM

Jim236 wrote: »

English might be your native language, but Irish is mine.

Fair enough.

Im glad to hear it really given your poor comprehension of words like

Riddle101 wrote: »

our.

and

Mike 1972 wrote: »

most.

Irish_wolf · 30-04-2010 03:53PM

Definitely keep it mandatory Irish is a great language once you get passed the horrible anglicised words (fairailte wtf?) and the crappy poetry.

I believe that Irish should have the same curriculum as french or german where there is a large focus on more conversational and practical uses for the language, and if someone wishes to take a course in irish history and literature they can take it in college or as an extra course for the leaving cert like ancient greek or something.

Then if you are really interested in it you can go to college and become an irish writer or w/e.

It'll never happen though.

bigbadbear · 30-04-2010 03:58PM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Fair enough.

Im glad to hear it really given your poor comprehension of words like ....................

No need to be a smart arsé.

+ irish people's native language is irish im sorry to inform you. Your location is Antrim. does that mean you are of british descent?

Should Irish be mandatory at second level?

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