Irish Coursing Club offer €20,000 Reward

stevoman · 13-04-2010 12:30pm #1

Just to highlight this if anyone knows anything.

Copied from NARGC Website.

REWARD
Irish Coursing Club offers €20,000 Reward

...for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the person(s) responsible for the injury and suffering of the hare released on video by Association of Hunt Saboteurs, alleging to be at Powerstown Park, Clonmel, Co. Tipperary on February 2010.

The hare in this video, which was released on the Youtube website eight weeks following the National Meeting, is clearly restrained with a wire or thin cord, and appears to be convulsing. Closer inspection will show the hare is trying to escape from being restrained, and is possibly partly sedated or poisoned. Claims are made this video was taken during the third day of the National Coursing Meeting, February 3, 2010, but due to the constant presence of paddock stewards/other personnel, and other related details, this is extremely unlikely. A break-in to the hare park prior to the National Meeting was previously reported to the Gardai. The Gardai at Clonmel are currently investigating this act of cruelty.

The Irish Coursing Club unreservedly condemns the maltreatment of this hare. We strongly urge anyone with relevant information to come forward on whoever perpetrated this act of cruelty to discredit coursing.

Please contact the Clonmel Detective Branch Office 052 6122222 or the Garda Confidential number 1800 666111

Further Information:

DJ Histon
Irish Coursing Club
087-6358127

PaulB91 · 13-04-2010 12:49pm

i'm confuselled

are the "Irish Coursing Club " saying that the sabateurs tied up the hare and released the video ? can't see the video in work

Whispered · 13-04-2010 1:11pm

I'd imagine they somehow got the video and released it?

Nice to see them taking responsibility and trying to weed out the worse of them. I can never understand how such things are overlooked. Same as dog fighting. Ok there may be one or 2 hard hearted people in a group who think it's ok, sort of ring leaders. But why do the rest just stand by and allow it to happen. It's horrific.

Vel · 13-04-2010 1:24pm

Funny how they are never so quick to offer rewards for information that might lead them to the people who dump their greyhounds in terrible conditions :rolleyes:

Trying to pass this off as them being concerned about the alleged cruelty or mistreatment of a hare is laughable. Its so transparent and self-serving.

The €20,000 would be much better donated to some of the rescues who mop up the dogs once they are surplus to the requirements of this industry.

Whispered · 13-04-2010 1:51pm

On the other hand though. If they are seen to be actively seeking out the worst offenders it might put others off.

It may be self serving, but it's not necessarily a bad thing.

stevoman · 13-04-2010 1:53pm

vel wrote:

Funny how they are never so quick to offer rewards for information that might lead them to the people who dump their greyhounds in terrible conditions

Trying to pass this off as them being concerned about the alleged cruelty or mistreatment of a hare is laughable. Its so transparent and self-serving.

The €20,000 would be much better donated to some of the rescues who mop up the dogs once they are surplus to the requirements of this industry.

ah c'mon now talk about tarring all the one people with the same brush.

thats only biiter talk, i know umpteen people who treat their lurchers and greyhounds like kids as opposed to people who treat them unkindly.

seamus · 13-04-2010 2:11pm

Agreed with Vel. This is shameless PR, trying to give the impression that this was an "outside job".

€20k would be much better served if they donated it to one of the Greyhound-specific rescues out there.

stevoman · 13-04-2010 2:24pm

seamus wrote:

Agreed with Vel. This is shameless PR, trying to give the impression that this was an "outside job".

€20k would be much better served if they donated it to one of the Greyhound-specific rescues out there.

If you are going to make accusations like that, methinks it would be a good idea to back it up with some proof.

EGAR · 13-04-2010 2:26pm

I am confused. So setting dogs after a hare in an enclosed area is ok and doesn't consitute cruelty?

Vel · 13-04-2010 2:28pm

helena.ryan wrote: »

On the other hand though. If they are seen to be actively seeking out the worst offenders it might put others off.

It may be self serving, but it's not necessarily a bad thing.

I don't understand fully what you mean though. They are alleging that animal rights campaigners did this, not someone from inside the industry, so its not like they are standing up and taking a stand against one of their own

cos!! · 13-04-2010 3:40pm

If you watch the video you can clearly see a wire around the hares neck, its disgusting how far antis will go!

ppink · 13-04-2010 4:39pm

what i cannot understand about this video clip is how someone could film that without calling a vet.

Whispered · 14-04-2010 2:52pm

Vel wrote: »

I don't understand fully what you mean though. They are alleging that animal rights campaigners did this, not someone from inside the industry, so its not like they are standing up and taking a stand against one of their own

Oh I thought that the video was released by a sab.

Sorry, my mistake.

In that case :mad:

Discodog · 14-04-2010 7:10pm

Well it is nice that the Hare Video issue has it's own thread. The actual video is 40 minutes long. It was filmed by two Swedish students who's details have been given to the Guards long ago - their names are even on a public website. The full video is with the Garda Commissioner who has been asked to investigate a breach of Coursing regulations.

Whether or not there is a snare, cable, string etc is totally unclear from the video. There is a dark area on the neck of the hair but it could be a shadow as it is too wide to be a snare or wire. One of the arguments is that a muzzled Greyhound cannot harm a Hare. The video does show what appears to be a collision between the Greyhound, the Hare & a post. A 30 kg plus dog packs quite a punch.

The ICC version is that two people smuggled a drugged Hare into a Coursing meet. They then managed to deposit the Hare into an enclosure full of Hares that were being guarded by stewards. They then had to wait for the Hare to recover - anyone who has anaesthetised a wild animal knows that this has a very variable time frame. Once the Hare recovered they had to film it struggling till it died - could of taken hours with no one noticing ?.
Finally they had to remove the dead Hare & snare/wire & smuggle them back out again.

All of this had to be done in a compound that is guarded because under Coursing rules the stewards are responsible for the well being of the Hares. It was also during a major Coursing event that was being watched by thousands of people. The students paid to get in & entered/left via the entrances. Their video shows all aspects of coursing & they claim that they openly filmed the Hare enclosure from a public area using a telephoto lens.

The other possible version of events is that the Hare collided with a pole & sustained a brain or spinal injury. It was then left to suffer. This would be a major breach of Coursing regulations & would constitute cruelty. If true then it could result in serious sanctions against the stewards or ICC.

I would love €20,000 of the ICC money but the likelihood of a trial, let alone any conviction is nil.

Sigma Force · 14-04-2010 11:52pm

Bit hypocritical, considering what they do to hares themselves.

ppink · 15-04-2010 7:36am

Discodog wrote: »

Well it is nice that the Hare Video issue has it's own thread. The actual video is 40 minutes long. It was filmed by two Swedish students who's details have been given to the Guards long ago - their names are even on a public website. The full video is with the Garda Commissioner who has been asked to investigate a breach of Coursing regulations.

Whether or not there is a snare, cable, string etc is totally unclear from the video. There is a dark area on the neck of the hair but it could be a shadow as it is too wide to be a snare or wire. One of the arguments is that a muzzled Greyhound cannot harm a Hare. The video does show what appears to be a collision between the Greyhound, the Hare & a post. A 30 kg plus dog packs quite a punch.

The ICC version is that two people smuggled a drugged Hare into a Coursing meet. They then managed to deposit the Hare into an enclosure full of Hares that were being guarded by stewards. They then had to wait for the Hare to recover - anyone who has anaesthetised a wild animal knows that this has a very variable time frame. Once the Hare recovered they had to film it struggling till it died - could of taken hours with no one noticing ?.
Finally they had to remove the dead Hare & snare/wire & smuggle them back out again.

All of this had to be done in a compound that is guarded because under Coursing rules the stewards are responsible for the well being of the Hares. It was also during a major Coursing event that was being watched by thousands of people. The students paid to get in & entered/left via the entrances. Their video shows all aspects of coursing & they claim that they openly filmed the Hare enclosure from a public area using a telephoto lens.

The other possible version of events is that the Hare collided with a pole & sustained a brain or spinal injury. It was then left to suffer. This would be a major breach of Coursing regulations & would constitute cruelty. If true then it could result in serious sanctions against the stewards or ICC.

I would love €20,000 of the ICC money but the likelihood of a trial, let alone any conviction is nil.

This still does not answer why these people would video an animal suffering/ in pain/ dying and not report it to anyone or call a vet, surely if thing were as they said they could film wiht one hand and phone a vet/the guards with the other?

Discodog · 15-04-2010 8:28am

Vel wrote: »

Funny how they are never so quick to offer rewards for information that might lead them to the people who dump their greyhounds in terrible conditions :rolleyes:

Trying to pass this off as them being concerned about the alleged cruelty or mistreatment of a hare is laughable. Its so transparent and self-serving.

The €20,000 would be much better donated to some of the rescues who mop up the dogs once they are surplus to the requirements of this industry.

The IGB do give a staggering 2% of race winnings to welfare. That tells you how much they really care about the dogs.

Graces7 · 15-04-2010 8:59am

They use LIVE HARES?

Surely this is not so in the UK?

That is appalling.

stevoman · 15-04-2010 10:20am

Yes hares are used but the dogs are muzzelled. In the Uk it is in fact now banned under the hunting act, though coursing in the UK did not involve muzzling dogs.

Here's some food for thought though. I have come across this report and read it and it made for some interesting reading.

http://www.wildlifeextra.com/do/ecco.py/view_item?listid=1&listcatid=1&listitemid=6688#cr

I read the full report from the university and it was very insightful. It seemed to be in depth research into the matter.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 15-04-2010 5:00pm

Graces7 wrote: »

They use LIVE HARES?

Surely this is not so in the UK?

That is appalling.

Yes! I think you are confusing Grayhound Racing and Coursing.

Discodog · 15-04-2010 5:37pm

ppink wrote: »

This still does not answer why these people would video an animal suffering/ in pain/ dying and not report it to anyone or call a vet, surely if thing were as they said they could film wiht one hand and phone a vet/the guards with the other?

I seem to recall reading that they did tell the stewards. Calling a vet or the Guards would be pointless & as Swedish nationals they may not of even known the number of a vet. The Hare appears to die very quickly. I have rescued live rabbits that have been snared for long enough that the wire has cut deep into their neck but they have still been alive.

However whoever or whatever killed the Hare it was in the custody of the ICC & they have total responsibility for it's well being.

The research is nothing new. If you want to find the biggest pheasant population you look at shoots where the pheasants are bred & their natural predators are killed.

Coursing groups do the same for Hares. As you will see from the video there are lots of Hares in the enclosure. These are wild animals that have to be trapped/caught before the "event". So it would be expected that the coursers would encourage Hare breeding etc to ensure that they have enough to course with. One could almost argue that, like Stags, Hares are "farmed" for Coursing.

Cos: as for your wire I have shown this video to a few wildlife vets in the UK. They all agree that the video is inconclusive. Should the ICC ever get to a Court with this I have no doubt that there would be a stalemate with expert testimony on both sides.

Tinytony · 26-04-2010 12:20pm

It is disgraceful that so-called animal lovers would stoop to something like this. Then again these so called activists have shown little regard for wildlife in the past, so why would they start now.

They thought they had come up with a clever little plan to try to show coursing in a bad light but it has back-fired spectacularly. It's a pity this video didn't emerge before these very same people went on Frontline claiming to be animal lovers.

Vel · 26-04-2010 2:03pm

Tinytony wrote: »

it has back-fired spectacularly.

How so? Are you saying that just because the ICC have reported it to the police? Nothing has been proved and I'm reliably informed that the ICC haven't received any worthwhile information, despite their 'generous' reward offer.

Don't kid yourself into the thinking the general public are as outraged at this as all the pro coursers who feel so hard done by! This may still bubbling away on forums devoted to coursing and greyhound racing but apart from that its a distant memory to most who might have read about it in the paper or wherever. But if the pro-coursers want to keep telling themselves that the general public are as outraged as they are, then far be it from me to let them think otherwise!

Tinytony · 26-04-2010 4:17pm

Of course it back-fired.

The aim of the video was to show coursing in a bad light but the only people who have come out of this looking bad are the anti's who staged the video and strangled that hare.

Discodog · 26-04-2010 5:55pm

I have offered the ICC the names of the students who took the video (it's on a public website & has been given to the Guards) but I am not getting €20,000. As they clearly have some spare money I back Vel's idea of giving it to the welfare fund.

Vel · 27-04-2010 8:17am

Tinytony wrote: »

Of course it back-fired.

The aim of the video was to show coursing in a bad light but the only people who have come out of this looking bad are the anti's who staged the video and strangled that hare.

In your opinion, it shows them in a bad light. As nothing has been proven it doesn't make me or those I have asked think of the antis in a bad light. In fact, a quick survey of my office yesterday and its the people who participate in coursing who they see in a bad light

You seem to have some kind of inside information on this video as you are so adament it was staged. I hope you have passed that on to the ICC?

BryanL · 27-04-2010 12:28pm

Discodog wrote: »

Calling a vet or the Guards would be pointless & as Swedish nationals they may not of even known the number of a vet.

The Hare appears to die very quickly.

There are plenty of gardai at the coursing meet in Clonmel, it would have been very easy to have made contact with one.

The hare, does not appear to die quickly, it appears to come back to LIFE!

Discodog · 27-04-2010 8:53pm

BryanL wrote: »

There are plenty of gardai at the coursing meet in Clonmel, it would have been very easy to have made contact with one.

The hare, does not appear to die quickly, it appears to come back to LIFE!

So these guys broke into the compound whilst there were plenty of Gardai there as well as security stewards ?. They must of been the Swedish SAS. Where is the Hare & the Wire or did they break back in to take them away ?. This would of provided conclusive evidence yet it does not exist.

Anyone looking objectively must see the whole ICC story as utterly unbelievable.

ppink · 28-04-2010 7:46am

Discodog wrote: »

I seem to recall reading that they did tell the stewards. Calling a vet or the Guards would be pointless & as Swedish nationals they may not of even known the number of a vet.
The research is nothing new. If you want to find the biggest pheasant population you look at shoots where the pheasants are bred & their natural predators are killed.

Discodog wrote: »

So these guys broke into the compound whilst there were plenty of Gardai there as well as security stewards ?. They must of been the Swedish SAS. Where is the Hare & the Wire or did they break back in to take them away ?. This would of provided conclusive evidence yet it does not exist.

Anyone looking objectively must see the whole ICC story as utterly unbelievable.

i am looking objectively at it and honestly i do not buy it for one second that they could not have contacted someone instead of continuing with this filming...or if there are two of them one could have contacted someone while the other kept filming. i know Powerstown Park very well and it would have been possible for one to remain hidden to an extent while filming if anyone heeded their call to help the animal.
I also agree that anytime there is an event...race meet or whatever at Powerstown Park there are stewards all over the place so not being able to contact someone is no excuse.

Discodog · 28-04-2010 9:10am

ppink wrote: »

i am looking objectively at it and honestly i do not buy it for one second that they could not have contacted someone instead of continuing with this filming...or if there are two of them one could have contacted someone while the other kept filming. i know Powerstown Park very well and it would have been possible for one to remain hidden to an extent while filming if anyone heeded their call to help the animal.
I also agree that anytime there is an event...race meet or whatever at Powerstown Park there are stewards all over the place so not being able to contact someone is no excuse.

Who says that they didn't contact anyone ?. I have not read their statements, maybe you have. Perhaps they did & no one did anything about it. You keep stating how there are stewards all over the place yet no one saw the supposed planting of the Hare, the filming, or it's removal. According to the ICC both students were fully occupied with one filming & the other pulling a wire.

The fact remains that at a Coursing meet it is the duty of all these stewards to ensure the safe keeping of the Hares at all times which clearly they did not do.

It wasn't me! · 28-04-2010 9:42pm

Discodog wrote: »

The fact remains that at a Coursing meet it is the duty of all these stewards to ensure the safe keeping of the Hares at all times which clearly they did not do.

To be honest, that's a cop out. I don't have an opinion on whether there was interference on the anti-coursing side for the creation of propaganda, but if there was, you're saying that it's the stewards' fault for failing to stop them, rather than their fault for doing it in the first place. That's a really ridiculous line of argument.

Irish Coursing Club offer €20,000 Reward

Comments