How bad is emigration in Ireland?

kraggy · 25-04-2010 11:30PM

deadhead13 wrote: »

I wasn't suggesting it was the sole factor, but it was the most significant one. Yes, France and Germany are in recession but they haven't experience anything like the drop of 7.1% in GDP and 11.3% in GNP, since 2008, that we have (which is a record btw). Construction output fell by 32.3% over the same period,

I know you weren't, but my post was also replying to brianthebard's post which I believe to be wrong.

He said that the recession is because of the property collapse. I was just saying that it wasn't the only reason and that we would have gone into recession anyway.

Stephen Gately · 25-04-2010 11:33PM

Emigration is so bad, people are leaving the country because of it. Ronan told me so he did.

Fear Uladh · 25-04-2010 11:40PM

Stephen Gately wrote: »

Emigration is so bad, people are leaving the country because of it. Ronan told me so he did.

Ronan is a medium?!

Stephen Gately · 25-04-2010 11:49PM

Chillaxe wrote: »

Ronan is a medium?!

Did Mikey tell you that? Gosh No! He's small.

McCruiskeen · 25-04-2010 11:57PM

AARRRRGH wrote: »

If those who are unemployed emigrated it would be great for all. They would have better lives and the state wouldnt have to support them.

That is a ridiculous statement. Are you saying that if you lose your job you should just get the **** outta Ireland you sponger. Why would people have better lives if they left Ireland? You don't have a very good attitude. Things are bad at the moment but this is just a blip and things will pick up.

I'm in my late twenties and I know tonnes of people who have left and are planning to leave. It is people at this age that are being hardest hit imo.

RolandIRL · 26-04-2010 12:03AM

AARRRRGH wrote: »

If those who are unemployed emigrated it would be great for all. They would have better lives and the state wouldnt have to support them.

and what about people who've built up a life in ireland, who have a home and family to consider? not everyone is free and easy to move around. they need to be home close to their family to support them. and for loads of people, ireland is the only home they've known. they're not going to get up and emigrate just because of a recession. those old enough to remember other recessions like the oil crisis in the 70's know that the recession isn't going to last forever and things will pick up. there's no point in moving for these people.

johnnyjb · 26-04-2010 12:19AM

danbohan wrote: »

anybody under 30 single with no ties here who is unemployed for 6 months or more and is still here with no future lacks ambition .

I think thats a totally wrong generalization. I fit all the above but want to stay here and maybe get a house and settle down. Public service workers hoping dole birds head off so their wages dont get cut want this.

Im not heading off just to make a few politicians look like they balanced the books when all they did is encourage what has been happening since the begining of this state Emmigration !!

Pingu-D · 26-04-2010 05:45AM

To be honest its rampant in some places, a group of 22 people from my secondary school all left for Australlia because they had trouble finding work here. Sad thing is there all from the same village as well and all between the ages of 18 to 20!

syklops · 26-04-2010 06:16AM

johnnyjb wrote: »

I think thats a totally wrong generalization. I fit all the above but want to stay here and maybe get a house and settle down. Public service workers hoping dole birds head off so their wages dont get cut want this.

Im not heading off just to make a few politicians look like they balanced the books when all they did is encourage what has been happening since the begining of this state Emmigration !!

How are you planning on getting a house for yourself when you are on the dole and have been for the last 6 months? Do you not think it would be better to go elsewhere for a few years, save some money, then come back and get your house?

DamoDLK · 26-04-2010 07:18AM

McCruiskeen wrote: »

That is a ridiculous statement. Are you saying that if you lose your job you should just get the **** outta Ireland you sponger. Why would people have better lives if they left Ireland? You don't have a very good attitude. Things are bad at the moment but this is just a blip and things will pick up.

I'm in my late twenties and I know tonnes of people who have left and are planning to leave. It is people at this age that are being hardest hit imo.

+1, Agreed, a possible lost generation.

I'll be returning to Ireland next month after my year in Oz, hoping that things will pick up soon, defo don't want to be sitting on my ar$e doing nothing for 6 months after i get back. But if things don't pick up i'll probably be applying for a skilled migrant visa for Oz... sad times when this might be the only viable option.

Mister men · 26-04-2010 08:30AM

Personally i know five friends who have up and left. Two have gone to Canada and the rest to America. Can't blame them really as there really is nothing here for them at all in terms of jobs. One guy has had to leave his wife and two kids here. In my opinion if it was'nt for emigration the unemployment figures would be close to 750,000 and i think the goverment is only to happy for people to up sticks and relocate. Sad times tbh.

danbohan · 26-04-2010 09:34AM

johnnyjb wrote: »

I think thats a totally wrong generalization. I fit all the above but want to stay here and maybe get a house and settle down. Public service workers hoping dole birds head off so their wages dont get cut want this.

Im not heading off just to make a few politicians look like they balanced the books when all they did is encourage what has been happening since the begining of this state Emmigration !!

good for you , for your loyalty and patriotism what will ireland offer you ?, everything will change ?, no more gombeen land ? no more jobs for the boys ? no more cosy cartels ? , maybe i am just an old cynic , but is now as ever has been ever shall be, gombeen world without end , amen ,
and your right about the public sector workers they are all part of the system that has created this mess as it was in previous generations .

Pittens · 26-04-2010 10:22AM

To be honest its rampant in some places, a group of 22 people from my secondary school all left for Australlia because they had trouble finding work here.

Well, I hope they come back to Ireland ( saying that I may not). These trips for a year or two should be welcome.

Modern emigration is not the same as the fifties, or the eighties even. The reason why people emigrate from down the country more readily is simple: people born in the country have to move anyway, and if there are no jobs in Dublin, you move to London or Boston.

The difference is slight. City living away from home, people from your village around somewhere, make friends over time. Getting home to Donegal from London is about the same as getting from Dublin.

We should try not to get so sentimental this time, as we found last time ( unlike previous generations) once the Irish economy booms people come back.

who the fug · 26-04-2010 10:33AM

Pittens wrote: »

We should try not to get so sentimental this time, as we found last time ( unlike previous generations) once the Irish economy booms people come back.

Only know two people who went home of the crowd I grew up with, most of us stayed abroad as we looked at the shower in the Dail, and knew it was only a matter of time before they **** up big time.

whiteman19 wrote: »

n. those old enough to remember other recessions like the oil crisis in the 70's know that the recession isn't going to last forever and things will pick up. there's no point in moving for these people.

That one more or less lasted from 1973 to 1993, so are you prepared to wait that long

who the fug · 26-04-2010 10:34AM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Surely its a bit sensationalist to assume that emigration is always a "problem"

Glad to see Brian has found a way to channel his thoughts to us from the other side

johnnyjb · 26-04-2010 01:26PM

syklops wrote: »

How are you planning on getting a house for yourself when you are on the dole and have been for the last 6 months? Do you not think it would be better to go elsewhere for a few years, save some money, then come back and get your house?

Ive no problem with people emmigrating,was thinking of it even before the bubble burst.But im not gonna be made feel im a burden to my own country.I have no mortgage and live with parents but just cause im not as in dire need of more money as others doesnt mean i should be classed as "lacks ambition"

I hate when people do something and cant see why others dont copy. If every one followed you across europe youd be telling them to f off back to ireland. Id love to just leave this mock society where money rules us and just live in a forrest hunting and not worrying about how much money i have to buy expensive useless objects and show off.

Any one coming??

syklops · 26-04-2010 01:41PM

johnnyjb wrote: »

Ive no problem with people emmigrating,was thinking of it even before the bubble burst.But im not gonna be made feel im a burden to my own country.I have no mortgage and live with parents but just cause im not as in dire need of more money as others doesnt mean i should be classed as "lacks ambition"

I hate when people do something and cant see why others dont copy. If every one followed you across europe youd be telling them to f off back to ireland. Id love to just leave this mock society where money rules us and just live in a forrest hunting and not worrying about how much money i have to buy expensive useless objects and show off.

Any one coming??

Its not about feeling like your a burden, its about yourself. Your own self pride. Are you not bored on the dole? Hanging around at home all day. In some ways your very lucky to be living at home, so the dole money goes further and you can save some of it, but as for saving for a house you will be on the dole a very long time saving for a house.

AckwelFoley · 26-04-2010 03:11PM

danbohan wrote: »

you see brianthebard , hes not a fianna fail voter , which probably means hes a member of the other dysfunctional and quite mad species on this island , a public sector employee

No, sadly not.

No free lunch here either.

Currently im a minimum wage grunt at a private sector firm.

I however did make prudent financial decisions when the boom was in full swing, realised it wasnt going to last and made sure that when "that day came" i would be financialy secure. I am. I dont thank the government.. in tha same way i wouldnt balme them if i was fool hardy enough to get amortgage i couldnt afford and bought a property at inflated prices.

The government didnt stifle the property boom, im not quite sure they should have, but i think they should have used the resources they gained from it better, ie... use it to set up other job creating structures for when it collapsed.

My problem with the oppsition other than FG is that they want to take money from the wealthy people that create 80% of the tax revenue and give it to pay over paid civil servants and fat cnuts that dont want to work have 8 kids and 2 holidays and of course bogus asylum seerkers.. yes this government already do that but with a socialist leftwing government it would be much worse

danbohan · 26-04-2010 04:06PM

snyper wrote: »

No, sadly not.

No free lunch here either.

Currently im a minimum wage grunt at a private sector firm.

I however did make prudent financial decisions when the boom was in full swing, realised it wasnt going to last and made sure that when "that day came" i would be financialy secure. I am. I dont thank the government.. in tha same way i wouldnt balme them if i was fool hardy enough to get amortgage i couldnt afford and bought a property at inflated prices.

The government didnt stifle the property boom, im not quite sure they should have, but i think they should have used the resources they gained from it better, ie... use it to set up other job creating structures for when it collapsed.

My problem with the oppsition other than FG is that they want to take money from the wealthy people that create 80% of the tax revenue and give it to pay over paid civil servants and fat cnuts that dont want to work have 8 kids and 2 holidays and of course bogus asylum seerkers.. yes this government already do that but with a socialist leftwing government it would be much worse

dont be under any illusions that fine gael wont continue to do exactly what Fianna fail do in relation to the public sector , they will protect and pamper , after all most politicians are ex public service .
as for the left wing loons in labour , sinn fein etc , well we would be Greece in a few months with those idiots . as for the greens , no words possible .

Tchaikovsky · 26-04-2010 08:14PM

Is the current emigration rate similar to the immigration (from non-EU people) rate? I wouldn't be surprised if it was. Crazy stuff.

Anyway, yep I'm off in a few months to some Spanish-speaking country. I'll probably move around a bit and take it from there.
It just breaks my heart living in my home country right now, so I think it'll be better for my overall health to view it from afar.

Tchaikovsky · 26-04-2010 08:15PM

danbohan wrote: »

dont be under any illusions that fine gael wont continue to do exactly what Fianna fail do in relation to the public sector , they will protect and pamper , after all most politicians are ex public service .
as for the left wing loons in labour , sinn fein etc , well we would be Greece in a few months with those idiots . as for the greens , no words possible .

Never mind, give them a chance and..
VOTE FIANNA FAIL AND THE GREENS INTO OBLIVION IN THE NEXT GENERAL ELECTION.

deadhead13 · 26-04-2010 08:38PM

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

Is the current emigration rate similar to the immigration (from non-EU people) rate? I wouldn't be surprised if it was. Crazy stuff.

Non-EU residents need a work permit. 7,942 of which were issued last year, which is 41% down on 2008. So the answer to your question is - no.

Tchaikovsky · 26-04-2010 09:06PM

Not including the amount who came here and are working/claiming welfare here illegally.

Mr. Presentable · 26-04-2010 09:10PM

It's not bad enough. We need to get shot of the unemployed and the burden they place on our system. Also, if all the Liverpool and Man U fans fu&&ed off and became local to their clubs we'd be happier and better off because they spend all their disposable on replica shirts and Sky subs

deadhead13 · 26-04-2010 10:07PM

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

Not including the amount who came here and are working/claiming welfare here illegally.

And how many of them are there then?

mfceiling · 26-04-2010 10:23PM

Looks like i'm off to london on wed for work cause there is nothing here.

Yes the government have to take the lion's share of the blame - remember bertie ahern - "The Taoiseach has said he does not see a great problem with the levels of borrowing to buy property. Mr Ahern said there had been predictions of a huge downturn in 2005. He added the bad advice given by so many resulted in some people making mistakes when they should have bought property last year. "

On the other side of the election we'll get back to normality. And I think that normality will be the soft landing. The construction projections were that we will move from something like 93,000 houses to 80-something. Now that's not going to create any kind of a difficulty."

"Sitting on the sidelines, cribbing and moaning is a lost opportunity. I don't know how people who engage in that don't commit suicide because frankly the only thing that motivates me is being able to actively change something."

:rolleyes:

26-04-2010 10:48PM

deadhead13 wrote: »

Non-EU residents need a work permit. 7,942 of which were issued last year, which is 41% down on 2008. So the answer to your question is - no.

Chances are that most of those were US, Can, AUS etc

Pride Fighter · 26-04-2010 10:56PM

I have several friends that have left or are leaving.

It is very sad. Fianna Fail are basically saying f*** off to the nations young by slashing the dole for under 25's. I have heard that 60,000 left Ireland last year. 30,000 of those are returning to Eastern Europe. The other 30,000 are Irish. They are mostly under 30, most have either a degree or a trade. Most would never ever vote for Fianna Fail.

Its a bloody shame too. Many of those in a job here in Ireland got it due to a Fianna Fail family connection. These people will still vote Fianna Fail, when what should happen is that the cowards and traitors that Fianna Fail are should be all imprisoned for the corruption, cronyism that they espouse. Will it happen? Not likely.

Tchaikovsky · 27-04-2010 01:38AM

deadhead13 wrote: »

And how many of them are there then?

Unfortunately I haven't had time to do a head-count and it's hard to get statistics for people who are here ILLEGALLY.

Father Damo · 27-04-2010 08:41AM

Stinicker wrote: »

When I worked with a few Polish lads in a hotel alot of the Irish completely shunned them only having anything to do with them on a professional level. Every morning I'd have the fry with them in the canteen and we all got on grand.

Oh now come on like. Plenty of foreign people in Ireland were very insular.

I am heading to Australia in July for a holiday with a view to returning in 2011 for a year or two, I would be perfectly happy to have no contact with any Irish over there and I cringe when I see the Irish Soccer or GAA wearing jersey types who head for the 1st Irish bar and get pissed.

We dont want to meet D4s with a self hatred of where they are from either mate. Dont bother trying to get a paddy to hook you up with work.

How bad is emigration in Ireland?

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