USI

Landa2 wrote: »

Now onto this.. Ok yes there are a lot of very good schemes out there and its great to see USI getting involved.. my question though is how many of their electorate were they representing on these committees, how many of their electorate took part in these events, i would be in favor of the USI representing everyone but as previously stated the individual colleges have their own representation structures..

Now onto your other more unique points.. The living policy USI have promoted is in fact in place in DCU for the past few years, you can in fact opt to live with other Irish speaking people if you indicate you want to on your application for campus res.. **This by the way is a LEGAL requirement of all colleges..**

The last point you made is verging on the introduction of godwin's law to this thread but i will side step it.. I dont see separating and Irish and English speakers, and giving them a sign that they are different as a promotion of the irish language.. I personally see these schemes as a means to separate Irish and English speaking students, or at least thats what it sounds like.. ok f*ck it its nigh-on segregation of the two communities.. How does this help promote the Irish language??

How is it segregation? Its creating a place where Irish citizens who wish to speak their native language on a daily basis.

Also I believe you are misinformed, this is the first year that Campus Res have made an offer to students to live through Irish fufilling a legal requirement introduced indirectly under the official langauges act 2003. Also as a person who sits on the university board which interacts with legal requirements in relation to the Irish language and I am yet to see any proof of your statement that the aforementioned clause fufils any legal requirement which is relevant to all universities.

I don't think a lot of people understand that as an Irish person me and many of my friends would love the support to live our dailly lives through Irish, something which is currently impossible in DCU yet is possible in many other USI colleges who provide better support for the Irish langauge.

And as for the Cumann Gaelach in DCU, yes we are active, however we receive little to no support from internal sources in the college. The Cumann Gaelach is Trinity and UCD are amongst the biggest societies in there respective colleges. Trinity was 3rd last yr behind only the Hist and the Phil, which shows what an adequately supported Cumann can achieve but thats a different story

Furthermore Fiontar is a school who operate through the medium of the Irish language, it offers business and journalism streams. However why is it if you want to do a science degree or a nursing degree in DCU thats isn't available anywhere in the country through Irish taht you shouldn't get the chance to interact with Irish as your dailly langauge outside the academic sphere. Many people come here from the Gaeltacht who believe it or not are often more comfortable speaking Irish than English yet this isn't recognised or catered for in living arrangements.

myk wrote: »

The old SU constitution (2001-2005ish) had a bilingual policy, as did those that came before it. I don't know what the position of the current SU constitution is, but if its an issue you care about you should be lobbying Union Council on it. I believe the constitution is being reviewed continuously.

When you say that there has been no internal support in the college for Cumann Gaelach you are being very disingenuous. The SPC is the main supporting and funding agency for societies on campus. And blaming this supposed lack of support for the reason that DCU Cumann Gaelach isn't as successful as similar societies in Trinity and UCD stinks of misplaced self pity.

I think you will find that financial assistance was one of three things i mentioned which are lacking by the lack of the relevant structures. Yet you chose to ignore a more prominent point, should a society be the main lobbying body for Irish language rights in this college? No

Interesting you mention period pre-2005 when there was more adequate support from the Union for Irish, now I wasn't around then but I do no that for a stage An Cumann Gaelach was the 2nd biggest society in DCU with over 400 members, this year with a 60% growth we reached about 200 hundred, does that show what can be achieved with relevant support structures?

Also with regards to people who are sayin this a weak argument to join USI, one would be foolish to build a whole argument based on Irish, however it could be used as part of a more complete argument.

myk wrote: »

why is the society the main lobbying body for the Irish language in the college?

you say that Cumann Gaelach should be a social society not a lobbying body and yet say it is disadvantaged because there aren't specific unnamed structures in the college. It seems to be a bit of a contradiction to me.

oh and saying that the society receives little or no support internally in the college is a massive sweeping statement which of course should be challenged. I notice you haven't withdrawn it or acknowledged your mistake.



Do you know what years those were? I think you are asserting a causal link between the two without any evidence.

Not 100% percent i do know that a man called Darren Ó Rodaigh was in charge of the Cumann around the turn of the millenium and he gave me them figures, I also know that in 2004 the Cumann hosted a formal ball attended by over 350 DCU students. I was simply questioning is it relevant

Myk without trying to be disrespectful you don't seem to understand the basic point being made with regards to lobbying for language rights and structures. Someone has to do it or else we will never get anywhere. In my opinion the SU should be to the forefront but they are not, USI could be but we are not members, therefore an onus is left on us to do it.

For such an outrageous sweeping statement I have yet to see you challenge it? Also something you seem to fail to understand is that with increased support comes increased participation. Currently for many people An Cumann Gaelach is viewed as a social extension of Fiontar students, which in itself is a self fufilling prophecy. By creating a new focus for the Irish language in a properly run residency scheme which place heavy emphasis on attracting students who dont do Irish in their degree but recognise the importance of the language as their favored medium of education, you are taking ownership of the Irish language in DCU from the Fiontar students and giving it back to the greater student body.

myk wrote: »

Well who should take action about it? The SU in DCU is a democratic body. Union Council is made up of class reps. The Exec are voted in directly. If its an issue that you care about raise it at Union Council, raise it at election time. Others who care about it should raise it to. You can't blame SU exec members for not taking the lead on these issues if there haven't been enough students raising these issues with them.

I mean do you know if there is an Irish language bi-lingual policy in the SU constitution, and if not do you know when it has been dropped and for what reason? Were you in DCU at the time of the last constitutional referendum? Have you involved yourself in any of the reviews of the SU constitution?

The above issues have been raised with this years Exec on numerous occasions. We would like to think that Irish had an increased profile in this years election than in previous, thanks to David and also our willingness to bring it to the forefront through putting questions through and about Irish in public places showing people cared. I am not a constitutional buff but as far as I am aware the constitution lacks bi-lingual policy because if it does then its unconstitutional in itself because there is not a leagan gaeilge of the constitution available. I wasn't around last time round and neither was the Cumann which was all but defunct in the year of the last constitutional referendum showing what can happen when there is no one left to lobby.

I have spoken to quite a few of the constitutional committee review members outlining my views and also written a letter to them outlining my disatisfaction with the current role of the Irish Officer and that it is quite worrying how far behind the other universities with regards to Irish we are.

phantom_lord wrote: »

Why not? I don't understand why you seem to think there's an obligation on the su to do this.



why when only a small minority are interested in it?

Cos its there job to represent their students and the rights of their students, one international student comes and says he isn't getting equality then there is a ho-ha, one Irish speaking student comes and says he isn't getting equality and its like yeah well no one cares, hardly logical.

Green Hand Guy wrote: »

That's a pretty strong claim. Do you have any examples to back it up?

Look right this is just going around in circles

At the end of the day are the University fufilling their legislative obligation under Article 12(e) of the Universities Act 1997?

to promote the official languages of the State, with special regard to the preservation, promotion and use of the Irish language and the preservation and promotion of the distinctive cultures of Ireland,

Furthermore as a representative body of the students are the SU endearing to ensure that the State are fufilling there legislative obligations to the best of there ability?

The point I simply wished to make was that I feel USI currently recognise the importance of this article in a way DCUSU don't.