USI

myk

There was a USI re-affiliation debate last week in DCU.

Interesting to note that, the SU exec in St Pat's Drumcondra are leading a campaign to disaffiliate from USI at the moment. NUI Maynooth recently voted to re-affiliate. Maynooth left the same year that DCU left.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Vote-Yes-to-Independence-from-USI/107745485931245?v=wall&ref=nf

Having some knowledge of the USI, knowing some people involved, I can just say that it is a waste. They seem to be like an ordinary students union but their egos are 10 times bigger. I really don't want any money being diverted away from DCU and into their pockets so please Mr. Conlon, **** off.

Green Hand Guy

Deleted User wrote: »

Having some knowledge of the USI, knowing some people involved, I can just say that it is a waste. They seem to be like an ordinary students union but their egos are 10 times bigger. I really don't want any money being diverted away from DCU and into their pockets so please Mr. Conlon, **** off.

Exactly. And, if anything, this blatant agenda of the College View's has put me even more off the idea.

Alan Keegan made his position on it clear when running for president, and the student body voted for him. The College View was elected by one society, and yet feel they have the right to campaign on behalf of everyone for something it seems only people on their editorial team want. It's very off-putting and very tabloidy, which is a shame because once you get past the first five pages of the paper there's usually some pretty decent content.

robby^5

The College View is completely biased in a lot of areas such as the USI debate, I wouldn't listen to single thing they have to say about USI. Their agenda is as clear as day to anyone who reads it regularly.

If the students want to rejoin USI then it will be evident that they want to, CV doesn't need to keep bombarding us with articles about USI each and every week. It's a real let down as there are some great articles in there.

Foxkehs

Deleted User wrote: »

Having some knowledge of the USI, knowing some people involved, I can just say that it is a waste. They seem to be like an ordinary students union but their egos are 10 times bigger. I really don't want any money being diverted away from DCU and into their pockets so please Mr. Conlon, **** off.

Actually, it was arranged that 'Mr.Conlon' was going to speak AGAINST USI in the debate but he was working. It would have been a tag team of McClave and Conlon. Pity. However, McClave did fantastically.

myk

Foxkehs wrote: »

Actually, it was arranged that 'Mr.Conlon' was going to speak AGAINST USI in the debate but he was working. It would have been a tag team of McClave and Conlon. Pity. However, McClave did fantastically.

The USI speakers did a pretty decent job and it seems like they will have a good team for next year.

The problem is that even with a good team, they aren't worth the affiliation fee and there is a big risk that in the near future they will go back to having a poor or terrible team, like they have had in the recent past.

phantom_lord

so we have to pay an affiliation fee, and what do we get exactly?

myk

phantom_lord wrote: »

so we have to pay an affiliation fee, and what do we get exactly?

Boozey weekends in a four star hotel, paid for by DCU students if you are delegate to USI Congress

http://www.sin.ie/cms/view/956/

MonaghanPenguin

Foxkehs wrote: »

It would have been a tag team of McClave and Conlon.

Lets get ready to rumble!

I think a 3 v 3 debate might have made things a bit more spicey. Also it's a pity that we didn't have some one from our sister college St. Pat's to speak as to why they're pulling out this year. Overall though I think it was a pretty interesting discussion. I know I'm a little biased but I didn't feel USI put up a very good argument as to why we should rejoin.

I would say though that if USI pushed through the reforms that it needs that DCU should consider joining then. But only then.

myk

MonaghanPenguin wrote: »

Lets get ready to rumble!

I think a 3 v 3 debate might have made things a bit more spicey. Also it's a pity that we didn't have some one from our sister college St. Pat's to speak as to why they're pulling out this year. Overall though I think it was a pretty interesting discussion. I know I'm a little biased but I didn't feel USI put up a very good argument as to why we should rejoin.

I would say though that if USI pushed through the reforms that it needs that DCU should consider joining then. But only then.

Or someone from UL SU, our sister university, to discuss why they aren't even considering it.

The best suggestion I heard was that DCU SU should draw up a list of what they want from USI, a terms of service showing what reform they want, what level of service, input and costs. And that re-affiliation be based on that, and similarly DCU re-affiliated and that at a later stage if USI fail to provide, that it would trigger a dis-affiliation referendum.

Even having said all that, the affiliation fee is huge and I'm not sure that it couldn't be spent more effectively locally.

Oh and on St Pat's

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Vote-Yes-to-Independence-from-USI/107745485931245?v=wall&ref=ts

Choc123

myk wrote: »

Or someone from UL SU, our sister university, to discuss why they aren't even considering it.

UL is not a "sister" university of DCU.

And on that point, ULSU are not pro reafilliation for many reasons but one of them is that due to their geographic location, they don't feel USI will do much for them and also it is felt in UL that USI aren't particularly pushed about getting them back for example..there has been no effort by USI to enter UL for a debate in on the issue like there has been in DCU.

On the point of the CV being overly pro USI, they have also run articles like this one which quite clearly is not favourable towards the organisation.

myk

Choc123 wrote: »

UL is not a "sister" university of DCU.

Sure it is, both colleges were granted University status at the same time. They have more in common with DCU than any of the other universities; their youth and focus on vocational courses.

Carri

myk wrote: »

Sure it is, both colleges were granted University status at the same time. They have more in common with DCU than any of the other universities; their youth and focus on vocational courses.

Thats like saying I'm the sister of every single person born on July 4th who also has blonde hair. Which is totally not true.

USI seems to have alot of money involved, along with alot of rabble.. I think we should hold off for now.

Landa2

MonaghanPenguin wrote: »

I would say though that if USI pushed through the reforms that it needs that DCU should consider joining then. But only then.

Agreed, as it stands right now we have more reasons not to be a part of USI.. although there is talk of a massive restructure, but again i wouldn't hold my breath on that..

Green Hand Guy

Choc123 wrote: »

UL is not a "sister" university of DCU.
On the point of the CV being overly pro USI, they have also run articles like this one which quite clearly is not favourable towards the organisation.

Yes, but all you have to do is look back a few weeks (the issue before the election one. 4 weeks ago I think) to see their special USI Propoganda issue, featuring page after page of pro-USI articles, the return of the letters page (with the only letter being from someone from USI) and all kinds of telling-us-what-we-should-think-rather-than-reporting-the-news fun.

phantom_lord

phantom_lord wrote: »

what do we get exactly?

.

More gob****e students fighting among eachother to be the very best they can possibly be and also get their mugshots in as many papers as possible...

thusspakeblixa

Choc123 wrote: »

I assure you there is no "fighting" amongst college view writers. As always Cynical Ru, you make some extremely useless points.

I'm fairly sure he was talking about the USI...

Landa2

Just got home from work, my sister was in the sitting room talking about USI's visit to the St Pats campus today (and yesterday). Ok, this is basically what she said..

Yesterday USI appeared on campus toting posters and flyers to campaign for a yes vote in tomorrows referendum keeping St Pats in the USI. These materials contained public attacks on the much loved St Pats SU President, saying stuff along the lines of PERSON has attended a total of 0 meetings this year.. Stick it to PERSON by voting to stay in USI..

Suffice to say when it came to the debate today they were effectively laughed off stage..

Is this the USI we want to be joining, a USI that attacks people that dont see things like the want them to be seen.. I dont think so, what they have done in Pats is an absolute disgrace..

MonaghanPenguin

Landa2 wrote: »

Just got home from work, my sister was in the sitting room talking about USI's visit to the St Pats campus today (and yesterday). Ok, this is basically what she said..

Yesterday USI appeared on campus toting posters and flyers to campaign for a yes vote in tomorrows referendum keeping St Pats in the USI. These materials contained public attacks on the much loved St Pats SU President, saying stuff along the lines of PERSON has attended a total of 0 meetings this year.. Stick it to PERSON by voting to stay in USI..

Suffice to say when it came to the debate today they were effectively laughed off stage..

Is this the USI we want to be joining, a USI that attacks people that dont see things like the want them to be seen.. I dont think so, what they have done in Pats is an absolute disgrace..

This is one of my biggest problems with USI, with a large amount of sabbats, ten currently, they can't afford to hire a professional who can actually run effective campaign.

Choc123

thusspakeblixa wrote: »

I'm fairly sure he was talking about the USI...

Apologies. deleted

vinnyb

Do the SU want a proper debate? When I offered to approach a 3 times USI Officer (including 1 time president) and former DCU student who currently sits on the board of USI on behalf of the SU with regards to taking part in any debate I was subtly dismissed.

Also with regards to USI I personally am undecided on the issue however one thing I have noted is how positive USI is for the Irish language. It is no coincedence that ourselves and UL are the two worst SUs in the country for the Irish language, fact!!!

Tiroskan

vinnyb wrote: »

Do the SU want a proper debate? When I offered to approach a 3 times USI Officer (including 1 time president) and former DCU student who currently sits on the board of USI on behalf of the SU with regards to taking part in any debate I was subtly dismissed.

Also with regards to USI I personally am undecided on the issue however one thing I have noted is how positive USI is for the Irish language. It is no coincedence that ourselves and UL are the two worst SUs in the country for the Irish language, fact!!!

Umm, actually, I completely fail to see how DCU and UL's failings regarding the Irish language have anything at all to do with whether or not we're a part of USI. Which would, in fact, make it a coincidence.

Feel free to explain, however.

Diarmsquid

Landa2 wrote: »

Just got home from work, my sister was in the sitting room talking about USI's visit to the St Pats campus today (and yesterday). Ok, this is basically what she said..

Yesterday USI appeared on campus toting posters and flyers to campaign for a yes vote in tomorrows referendum keeping St Pats in the USI. These materials contained public attacks on the much loved St Pats SU President, saying stuff along the lines of PERSON has attended a total of 0 meetings this year.. Stick it to PERSON by voting to stay in USI..

Suffice to say when it came to the debate today they were effectively laughed off stage..

Is this the USI we want to be joining, a USI that attacks people that dont see things like the want them to be seen.. I dont think so, what they have done in Pats is an absolute disgrace..

I don't think that's bad campaigning on USI's part. Pat's SU have been running the campaign that they see no return for the €11,000 they pay every year, but if the President has in fact not attended a single USI meeting, how can they expect to gain anything? It's the SU Presidents fault as much as USI's, if not more so.

A valid point to raise I'd have thought.

Green Hand Guy

Tiroskan wrote: »

Umm, actually, I completely fail to see how DCU and UL's failings regarding the Irish language have anything at all to do with whether or not we're a part of USI. Which would, in fact, make it a coincidence.

Feel free to explain, however.

I agree.

Also, I'm in college to learn computers, not Irish. And a large proportion of students aren't even from Ireland. It really annoys me how some Irish-speakers can't just be content to speak it themselves and feel they have to force it on the rest of us. Had enough of that in secondary school.

Cy_Revenant

Diarmsquid wrote: »

I don't think that's bad campaigning on USI's part. Pat's SU have been running the campaign that they see no return for the €11,000 they pay every year, but if the President has in fact not attended a single USI meeting, how can they expect to gain anything? It's the SU Presidents fault as much as USI's, if not more so.

A valid point to raise I'd have thought.

Not entirely.

I can't see this campaign to withdraw from USI as something which has grown from a semester of getting nothing back. If there's really a feeling for disenfranchisement, then it must have started before the current Union President's time in office, surely?

MonaghanPenguin

Cy_Revenant wrote: »

Not entirely.

I can't see this campaign to withdraw from USI as something which has grown from a semester of getting nothing back. If there's really a feeling for disenfranchisement, then it must have started before the current Union President's time in office, surely?

When I was starting my year in DCU I met the outgoing Pat's president and she was adamant that the best thing for St. Pat's would be to leave USI and that they got nothing out of it. So it goes back three years at least.

MonaghanPenguin

vinnyb wrote: »

Do the SU want a proper debate? When I offered to approach a 3 times USI Officer (including 1 time president) and former DCU student who currently sits on the board of USI on behalf of the SU with regards to taking part in any debate I was subtly dismissed.

Well it probably had to do with the fact that they'd gotten a fair representation from USI as it was. The incoming USI President, Deputy President and Welfare Officers, as well as the out going Eastern Area Officer and the outgoing NUIM President (who led the reaffiliation charge down there) were all there present and either made speeches or were allowed contribute to the open floor discussion. They hardly stacked the odds against USI.

vinnyb

Green Hand Guy wrote: »

I agree.

Also, I'm in college to learn computers, not Irish. And a large proportion of students aren't even from Ireland. It really annoys me how some Irish-speakers can't just be content to speak it themselves and feel they have to force it on the rest of us. Had enough of that in secondary school.

Thats lovely to hear your here to learn computers, I'm here to learn business. Yet if as an Irish speaker (thats right its mad to think that Irish is actually a language not a subject) I wish to fight for my constitutional rights as an Irishman why does it affect you. Did anyone in DCU ever make you speak Irish? No. So who forced it on you? A sub-total of no one. Just because you don't want to speak Irish doesn't mean you can't recognise its importance as our national language.

In response to an earlier question about relevance of USI to Irish

Because USI is at the forefront of many Irish language schemes, recently last weekend 250000 students in Ireland were represented by USI at Ardfheis Conradh na Gaeilge, where was DCUSU's representation?

USI had a voice on the Executive Committee that organised Rith 2010, one of the most vibrant things that has happened the Irish language in many years.

USI has fought for Irish Language living schemes in all its member colleges, where is ours? Why should an Irish man have to live through the medium of English in his own country if he doesn't want to?

USI has initiated a scheme to spread visibilty of Irish speakers amongst 3rd level students by introducing bands for Irish speakers so they can recognise each other. Where are our bands? Even though they were requested from the SU.

vinnyb

vinnyb wrote: »

...

€11000 for colourful posters...I want more than that. Vinny, we have a very active Cumann Gaelach that should sort you out. It's €4.

Landa2

vinnyb wrote: »

Thats lovely to hear your here to learn computers, I'm here to learn business. Yet if as an Irish speaker (thats right its mad to think that Irish is actually a language not a subject) I wish to fight for my constitutional rights as an Irishman why does it affect you. Did anyone in DCU ever make you speak Irish? No. So who forced it on you? A sub-total of no one. Just because you don't want to speak Irish doesn't mean you can't recognise its importance as our national language.

Ok, this is all a little extreme.. I am also here to learn computers, i also would like to learn more of my national language, all around me people are calling it a dead language and i disagree completely.. its our language, heritage and culture..

But, again im in college to do something specific.. USI throwing resources into irish language development that could have gone elsewhere seems pointless in third level education.. at this stage the majority of people either know irish or they dont, i cant see anyone picking up an extra learning outcome on top of everything else they have to do.. i agree that money should be put into learning and promoting irish but this money should have been put in in primary and second level education tracks..

Now i am in a somewhat unique position, i am now in DCU but i was in DIT previous to this and i must say in all my time in DIT i didn't see any USI campaign in English let alone Irish, this may have changed since but that was my experience..

On a previous point, on top of our very active Cumann Gaelach.. DCU have also put a lot of time and resources into developing their Fiontar course structure allowing study in Irish in ether of the business or computing streams..

Landa2

vinnyb wrote: »

In response to an earlier question about relevance of USI to Irish

Because USI is at the forefront of many Irish language schemes, recently last weekend 250000 students in Ireland were represented by USI at Ardfheis Conradh na Gaeilge, where was DCUSU's representation?

USI had a voice on the Executive Committee that organised Rith 2010, one of the most vibrant things that has happened the Irish language in many years.

USI has fought for Irish Language living schemes in all its member colleges, where is ours? Why should an Irish man have to live through the medium of English in his own country if he doesn't want to?

USI has initiated a scheme to spread visibilty of Irish speakers amongst 3rd level students by introducing bands for Irish speakers so they can recognise each other. Where are our bands? Even though they were requested from the SU.

Now onto this.. Ok yes there are a lot of very good schemes out there and its great to see USI getting involved.. my question though is how many of their electorate were they representing on these committees, how many of their electorate took part in these events, i would be in favor of the USI representing everyone but as previously stated the individual colleges have their own representation structures..

Now onto your other more unique points.. The living policy USI have promoted is in fact in place in DCU for the past few years, you can in fact opt to live with other Irish speaking people if you indicate you want to on your application for campus res.. **This by the way is a LEGAL requirement of all colleges..**

The last point you made is verging on the introduction of godwin's law to this thread but i will side step it.. I dont see separating and Irish and English speakers, and giving them a sign that they are different as a promotion of the irish language.. I personally see these schemes as a means to separate Irish and English speaking students, or at least thats what it sounds like.. ok f*ck it its nigh-on segregation of the two communities.. How does this help promote the Irish language??

g5fd6ow0hseima

I dont take a blind bit of interest in the whole USI issue, but I will say it is annoying my hole. So, I ask one thing:

Can someone please explain to me why DCU should re-join, and how we will benefit from doing so. I see nothing wrong with the current SU here in DCU. They're doing all one can expect from a student union. Why the need to ally themselves with this executive?

vinnyb

Landa2 wrote: »

Now onto this.. Ok yes there are a lot of very good schemes out there and its great to see USI getting involved.. my question though is how many of their electorate were they representing on these committees, how many of their electorate took part in these events, i would be in favor of the USI representing everyone but as previously stated the individual colleges have their own representation structures..

Now onto your other more unique points.. The living policy USI have promoted is in fact in place in DCU for the past few years, you can in fact opt to live with other Irish speaking people if you indicate you want to on your application for campus res.. **This by the way is a LEGAL requirement of all colleges..**

The last point you made is verging on the introduction of godwin's law to this thread but i will side step it.. I dont see separating and Irish and English speakers, and giving them a sign that they are different as a promotion of the irish language.. I personally see these schemes as a means to separate Irish and English speaking students, or at least thats what it sounds like.. ok f*ck it its nigh-on segregation of the two communities.. How does this help promote the Irish language??

How is it segregation? Its creating a place where Irish citizens who wish to speak their native language on a daily basis.

Also I believe you are misinformed, this is the first year that Campus Res have made an offer to students to live through Irish fufilling a legal requirement introduced indirectly under the official langauges act 2003. Also as a person who sits on the university board which interacts with legal requirements in relation to the Irish language and I am yet to see any proof of your statement that the aforementioned clause fufils any legal requirement which is relevant to all universities.

I don't think a lot of people understand that as an Irish person me and many of my friends would love the support to live our dailly lives through Irish, something which is currently impossible in DCU yet is possible in many other USI colleges who provide better support for the Irish langauge.

And as for the Cumann Gaelach in DCU, yes we are active, however we receive little to no support from internal sources in the college. The Cumann Gaelach is Trinity and UCD are amongst the biggest societies in there respective colleges. Trinity was 3rd last yr behind only the Hist and the Phil, which shows what an adequately supported Cumann can achieve but thats a different story

Furthermore Fiontar is a school who operate through the medium of the Irish language, it offers business and journalism streams. However why is it if you want to do a science degree or a nursing degree in DCU thats isn't available anywhere in the country through Irish taht you shouldn't get the chance to interact with Irish as your dailly langauge outside the academic sphere. Many people come here from the Gaeltacht who believe it or not are often more comfortable speaking Irish than English yet this isn't recognised or catered for in living arrangements.

david.doyle

vinnyb wrote: »

And as for the Cumann Gaelach in DCU, yes we are active, however we receive little to no support from internal sources in the college. The Cumann Gaelach is Trinity and UCD are amongst the biggest societies in there respective colleges. Trinity was 3rd last yr behind only the Hist and the Phil, which shows what an adequately supported Cumann can achieve but thats a different story

I'm sorry, what?

Where do you think an Cumann Gaelach receive their funding? Nach bhfuil clue ar bith agat faoin coras ata ann i DCU?

As a member of the Societies and Publications Committee I find it baffling that you could actually say that an cumann receieves 'little to no' support from internal sources in the college. Grant allocations are publically available and a simple glance will show you very clearly that support is received.

Even as recently as two weeks ago postering policy within the office of student life was reformed to allow for a double in postering finances for those wishing to produce posters as gaeilge chomh maith.

You can't simply throw accusations around about 'not getting enough support' when there are clearly other issues to examine within the organisation in question.

My opinions on gaeilge sa coras oideachas are no secret but I'm not even bothered going into right now, I just had to comment on the insanity that is your accusation that an cumann gaelach receive no support.

Madness.

phantom_lord

vinnyb wrote: »

Thats lovely to hear your here to learn computers, I'm here to learn business. Yet if as an Irish speaker (thats right its mad to think that Irish is actually a language not a subject) I wish to fight for my constitutional rights as an Irishman why does it affect you. Did anyone in DCU ever make you speak Irish? No. So who forced it on you? A sub-total of no one. Just because you don't want to speak Irish doesn't mean you can't recognise its importance as our national language.

In response to an earlier question about relevance of USI to Irish

Because USI is at the forefront of many Irish language schemes, recently last weekend 250000 students in Ireland were represented by USI at Ardfheis Conradh na Gaeilge, where was DCUSU's representation?

USI had a voice on the Executive Committee that organised Rith 2010, one of the most vibrant things that has happened the Irish language in many years.

USI has fought for Irish Language living schemes in all its member colleges, where is ours? Why should an Irish man have to live through the medium of English in his own country if he doesn't want to?

USI has initiated a scheme to spread visibilty of Irish speakers amongst 3rd level students by introducing bands for Irish speakers so they can recognise each other. Where are our bands? Even though they were requested from the SU.

really weak reason to join imo. not trying to be rude or anything but the vast majority of the student body doesn't have any interest in this.

vinnyb

david.doyle wrote: »

I'm sorry, what?

Where do you think an Cumann Gaelach receive their funding? Nach bhfuil clue ar bith agat faoin coras ata ann i DCU?

As a member of the Societies and Publications Committee I find it baffling that you could actually say that an cumann receieves 'little to no' support from internal sources in the college. Grant allocations are publically available and a simple glance will show you very clearly that support is received.

Even as recently as two weeks ago postering policy within the office of student life was reformed to allow for a double in postering finances for those wishing to produce posters as gaeilge chomh maith.

You can't simply throw accusations around about 'not getting enough support' when there are clearly other issues to examine within the organisation in question.

My opinions on gaeilge sa coras oideachas are no secret but I'm not even bothered going into right now, I just had to comment on the insanity that is your accusation that an cumann gaelach receive no support.

Madness.

David that isn't a reference to the SPC it is however a reference to the SU who reneged on various promises this year, such as agreements which had been made during Seachtain na Gaeilge and more importantly a lack of a clear Bord na Gaeilge nó Roinn na Gaeilge san ollscoil seo who provide an energy, financial assistance and a strong lobbying body. Fair enough Fiontar is there but are they happy to be seen as Roinn na Gaeilge? No and why should they be, they are a school who function through the medium of Irish which is inherently different.

With an indifferent SU and lack of proper support from the university how will Irish in this university be put on a par with Irish in all the USI universities, at least USI have shown they care about Irish, have DCUSU?

Is it right that the Cumann Gaelach is the main lobbying body for Irish language rights in DCU? Should the function of our society not be to run social activities through the medium of Irish instead wasting time and energy doing lobby work that DCUSU isn't happy to do or isn't happy to give the support structures to a DCUSU Irish Officer to do on their behalf, if they ain't happy to do it then I'm happy to let USI do it on our behalf.

myk

vinnyb wrote: »

David that isn't a reference to the SPC it is however a reference to the SU who reneged on various promises this year, such as agreements which had been made during Seachtain na Gaeilge and more importantly a lack of a clear Bord na Gaeilge nó Roinn na Gaeilge san ollscoil seo who provide an energy, financial assistance and a strong lobbying body. Fair enough Fiontar is there but are they happy to be seen as Roinn na Gaeilge? No and why should they be, they are a school who function through the medium of Irish which is inherently different.

With an indifferent SU and lack of proper support from the university how will Irish in this university be put on a par with Irish in all the USI universities, at least USI have shown they care about Irish, have DCUSU?

Is it right that the Cumann Gaelach is the main lobbying body for Irish language rights in DCU? Should the function of our society not be to run social activities through the medium of Irish instead wasting time and energy doing lobby work that DCUSU isn't happy to do or isn't happy to give the support structures to a DCUSU Irish Officer to do on their behalf, if they ain't happy to do it then I'm happy to let USI do it on our behalf.

The old SU constitution (2001-2005ish) had a bilingual policy, as did those that came before it. I don't know what the position of the current SU constitution is, but if its an issue you care about you should be lobbying Union Council on it. I believe the constitution is being reviewed continuously.

When you say that there has been no internal support in the college for Cumann Gaelach you are being very disingenuous. The SPC is the main supporting and funding agency for societies on campus. And blaming this supposed lack of support for the reason that DCU Cumann Gaelach isn't as successful as similar societies in Trinity and UCD stinks of misplaced self pity.

myk

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/pages/Vote-Yes-to-Independence-from-USI/107745485931245?v=wall&ref=ts

It seems like the Student body of St Pats have voted by a Saddam Hussein style majority to leave USI.

1,100 votes to leave and less than 40 votes to stay in. How many students go to St Pat's? That seems like a massive turn out for them.

vinnyb

myk wrote: »

The old SU constitution (2001-2005ish) had a bilingual policy, as did those that came before it. I don't know what the position of the current SU constitution is, but if its an issue you care about you should be lobbying Union Council on it. I believe the constitution is being reviewed continuously.

When you say that there has been no internal support in the college for Cumann Gaelach you are being very disingenuous. The SPC is the main supporting and funding agency for societies on campus. And blaming this supposed lack of support for the reason that DCU Cumann Gaelach isn't as successful as similar societies in Trinity and UCD stinks of misplaced self pity.

I think you will find that financial assistance was one of three things i mentioned which are lacking by the lack of the relevant structures. Yet you chose to ignore a more prominent point, should a society be the main lobbying body for Irish language rights in this college? No

Interesting you mention period pre-2005 when there was more adequate support from the Union for Irish, now I wasn't around then but I do no that for a stage An Cumann Gaelach was the 2nd biggest society in DCU with over 400 members, this year with a 60% growth we reached about 200 hundred, does that show what can be achieved with relevant support structures?

Also with regards to people who are sayin this a weak argument to join USI, one would be foolish to build a whole argument based on Irish, however it could be used as part of a more complete argument.

myk

vinnyb wrote: »

I think you will find that financial assistance was one of three things i mentioned which are lacking by the lack of the relevant structures. Yet you chose to ignore a more prominent point, should a society be the main lobbying body for Irish language rights in this college? No

why is the society the main lobbying body for the Irish language in the college?

you say that Cumann Gaelach should be a social society not a lobbying body and yet say it is disadvantaged because there aren't specific unnamed structures in the college. It seems to be a bit of a contradiction to me.

oh and saying that the society receives little or no support internally in the college is a massive sweeping statement which of course should be challenged. I notice you haven't withdrawn it or acknowledged your mistake.

vinnyb wrote: »

Interesting you mention period pre-2005 when there was more adequate support from the Union for Irish, now I wasn't around then but I do no that for a stage An Cumann Gaelach was the 2nd biggest society in DCU with over 400 members, this year with a 60% growth we reached about 200 hundred, does that show what can be achieved with relevant support structures?

Do you know what years those were? I think you are asserting a causal link between the two without any evidence.

vinnyb

myk wrote: »

why is the society the main lobbying body for the Irish language in the college?

you say that Cumann Gaelach should be a social society not a lobbying body and yet say it is disadvantaged because there aren't specific unnamed structures in the college. It seems to be a bit of a contradiction to me.

oh and saying that the society receives little or no support internally in the college is a massive sweeping statement which of course should be challenged. I notice you haven't withdrawn it or acknowledged your mistake.



Do you know what years those were? I think you are asserting a causal link between the two without any evidence.

Not 100% percent i do know that a man called Darren Ó Rodaigh was in charge of the Cumann around the turn of the millenium and he gave me them figures, I also know that in 2004 the Cumann hosted a formal ball attended by over 350 DCU students. I was simply questioning is it relevant

Myk without trying to be disrespectful you don't seem to understand the basic point being made with regards to lobbying for language rights and structures. Someone has to do it or else we will never get anywhere. In my opinion the SU should be to the forefront but they are not, USI could be but we are not members, therefore an onus is left on us to do it.

For such an outrageous sweeping statement I have yet to see you challenge it? Also something you seem to fail to understand is that with increased support comes increased participation. Currently for many people An Cumann Gaelach is viewed as a social extension of Fiontar students, which in itself is a self fufilling prophecy. By creating a new focus for the Irish language in a properly run residency scheme which place heavy emphasis on attracting students who dont do Irish in their degree but recognise the importance of the language as their favored medium of education, you are taking ownership of the Irish language in DCU from the Fiontar students and giving it back to the greater student body.

myk

vinnyb wrote: »

Myk without trying to be disrespectful you don't seem to understand the basic point being made with regards to lobbying for language rights and structures. Someone has to do it or else we will never get anywhere. In my opinion the SU should be to the forefront but they are not, USI could be but we are not members, therefore an onus is left on us to do it.

Well who should take action about it? The SU in DCU is a democratic body. Union Council is made up of class reps. The Exec are voted in directly. If its an issue that you care about raise it at Union Council, raise it at election time. Others who care about it should raise it to. You can't blame SU exec members for not taking the lead on these issues if there haven't been enough students raising these issues with them.

I mean do you know if there is an Irish language bi-lingual policy in the SU constitution, and if not do you know when it has been dropped and for what reason? Were you in DCU at the time of the last constitutional referendum? Have you involved yourself in any of the reviews of the SU constitution?

vinnyb

myk wrote: »

Well who should take action about it? The SU in DCU is a democratic body. Union Council is made up of class reps. The Exec are voted in directly. If its an issue that you care about raise it at Union Council, raise it at election time. Others who care about it should raise it to. You can't blame SU exec members for not taking the lead on these issues if there haven't been enough students raising these issues with them.

I mean do you know if there is an Irish language bi-lingual policy in the SU constitution, and if not do you know when it has been dropped and for what reason? Were you in DCU at the time of the last constitutional referendum? Have you involved yourself in any of the reviews of the SU constitution?

The above issues have been raised with this years Exec on numerous occasions. We would like to think that Irish had an increased profile in this years election than in previous, thanks to David and also our willingness to bring it to the forefront through putting questions through and about Irish in public places showing people cared. I am not a constitutional buff but as far as I am aware the constitution lacks bi-lingual policy because if it does then its unconstitutional in itself because there is not a leagan gaeilge of the constitution available. I wasn't around last time round and neither was the Cumann which was all but defunct in the year of the last constitutional referendum showing what can happen when there is no one left to lobby.

I have spoken to quite a few of the constitutional committee review members outlining my views and also written a letter to them outlining my disatisfaction with the current role of the Irish Officer and that it is quite worrying how far behind the other universities with regards to Irish we are.

phantom_lord

vinnyb wrote: »

Yet you chose to ignore a more prominent point, should a society be the main lobbying body for Irish language rights in this college? No

Why not? I don't understand why you seem to think there's an obligation on the su to do this.

vinnyb wrote: »

Also with regards to people who are sayin this a weak argument to join USI, one would be foolish to build a whole argument based on Irish, however it could be used as part of a more complete argument.

why when only a small minority are interested in it?

vinnyb

phantom_lord wrote: »

Why not? I don't understand why you seem to think there's an obligation on the su to do this.



why when only a small minority are interested in it?

Cos its there job to represent their students and the rights of their students, one international student comes and says he isn't getting equality then there is a ho-ha, one Irish speaking student comes and says he isn't getting equality and its like yeah well no one cares, hardly logical.

Green Hand Guy

vinnyb wrote: »

one international student comes and says he isn't getting equality then there is a ho-ha, one Irish speaking student comes and says he isn't getting equality and its like yeah well no one cares

That's a pretty strong claim. Do you have any examples to back it up?

vinnyb

Green Hand Guy wrote: »

That's a pretty strong claim. Do you have any examples to back it up?

Look right this is just going around in circles

At the end of the day are the University fufilling their legislative obligation under Article 12(e) of the Universities Act 1997?

to promote the official languages of the State, with special regard to the preservation, promotion and use of the Irish language and the preservation and promotion of the distinctive cultures of Ireland,

Furthermore as a representative body of the students are the SU endearing to ensure that the State are fufilling there legislative obligations to the best of there ability?

The point I simply wished to make was that I feel USI currently recognise the importance of this article in a way DCUSU don't.

Landa2

Agreed this is a massive circle, this forum is about the USI not Irish language representation in DCU..

This is a valid reason to join USI, but i don't see why you cant lobby this with the incoming SU, as it is too late for the current to look at implementing it.. But yes it is something USI put more resources into..

So yeah, USI.. St Pats yesterday voted by a 95% majority for Independence from the USI..

Che Guevara

myk wrote: »

Even having said all that, the affiliation fee is huge and I'm not sure that it couldn't be spent more effectively locally.

How much is the affiliation fee (per student)?

Fiftysix

the blood of a virgin