Electric car, Would you buy one.

alex73 · 19-04-2010 10:01PM

vinylmesh wrote: »

I think it's great that the government are finally taking the initiative on something. We really need to free ourselves from our dependance on oil. If i had money to buy a car and if this was in my price range I'd seriously consider getting it.

I wonder how many people on this thread also give out that the government never do anything pro-active...

I also think its a step forward, better to be doing something proactive. And regardless of Fianna Fail, Greens or any other party at the end of the day we import all our petrol.

I think its a game of wait and see.. Many ideas like the Phone and TV at the beginning were see as jokes, but we all use them today. I suppose in 20 years we could be all driving them. But today as it stands they are expensive and its a Gamble to buy one without the infrastructure in place. but then again do you waste money on instrasture that we may not use?

Pure_Cork · 19-04-2010 10:03PM

vinylmesh wrote: »

I think it's great that the government are finally taking the initiative on something. We really need to free ourselves from our dependance on oil. If i had money to buy a car and if this was in my price range I'd seriously consider getting it.

I wonder how many people on this thread also give out that the government never do anything pro-active...

The government will be building a lot of new power stations so?

kraggy · 19-04-2010 10:03PM

Can someone please explain to me how these are good for the environment. Surely the saving on emissions from the car are negated by the emissions from the power plant (assuming the power plant burns fossil fuels)?

crosstownk · 19-04-2010 10:04PM

some website wrote:

Low Operating Cost Means High Savings are Possible
It is important to note that the vehicle price does not include the lithium-ion battery. This will be leased to motorists at €1200 a year. But with running costs as little as 3 cents/mile compared to 15c/mile for petrol/diesel it is possible to break even at 12,000km per year or just 30km/day. With the average vehicle in Ireland covering 17,000km per year at present according to the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, the potential savings are considerable. (Drivers of electric vehicles must pay €1,200 annual fee for battery rental, Paul Melia, Irish Independent, Saturday March 27 2010)

Read more at Suite101: Ireland to be Test Bed for Electric Vehicle Roll-Out http://energy-conservation.suite101.com/article.cfm/ireland-to-be-test-bed-for-electric-vehicle-roll-out#ixzz0la9wxQqB

Full article here > http://energy-conservation.suite101.com/article.cfm/ireland-to-be-test-bed-for-electric-vehicle-roll-out

alex73 · 19-04-2010 10:06PM

kraggy wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me how these are good for the environment. Surely the saving on emissions from the car are negated by the emissions from the power plant (assuming the power plant burns fossil fuels)?

We could in theory have 50% of our electricity from Wind and Wave power. and we all know we have a lot of wind.

Also if our houses were properly insulated and with a solar power cell we could save 15 to 20% on our electricity bills.

pcardin · 19-04-2010 10:23PM

alex73 wrote: »

We could in theory have 50% of our electricity from Wind and Wave power. and we all know we have a lot of wind.

Also if our houses were properly insulated and with a solar power cell we could save 15 to 20% on our electricity bills.

Yes but then Irish government wil start to introduce Wind&Wave Tax, Solar Power tax etc.

Overheal · 19-04-2010 10:23PM

kraggy wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me how these are good for the environment. Surely the saving on emissions from the car are negated by the emissions from the power plant (assuming the power plant burns fossil fuels)?

Assuming its a coal plant, Money Point, etc. etc. and not a Wind Farm, you still gain efficiency.

Coal is not exactly Gas, or Nuclear, or even Hydro, which are far more reactionary in how quickly you can adjust the output of the system. Its all just a matter of how much gas you inject into the system; how you adjust the control rods; or how much water you allow to pass through the turbine from reservoir.

Your Coal Fireplace for instance, takes a long time to heat up, and a long time to cool off. Plants have to anticipate electricity usage. And when they underestimate, you get a blackout, or a brownout. I can think of a few incidents. Anyway, it can take time before coal reaches critical temperature and begins its reaction. And once this happens, it takes even longer for the reaction to finish.

Anyway, in order to avoid blackouts and brownouts, you will often burn a margin of coal above what you might need to provide all the needs of the grid at the given timeframe. So arguably, a lot of electricity is in the grid during off-peak hours, already being wasted, that could be used to charge an electric vehicle. Which is about as expensive Joule-wise as charging an electric forklift - which many industries already use! Dun dun dunnn!

Pure_Cork · 19-04-2010 10:23PM

kraggy wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me how these are good for the environment. Surely the saving on emissions from the car are negated by the emissions from the power plant (assuming the power plant burns fossil fuels)?

Yeah, essentially shifting the point of combustion. To get a proper picture you also have to look at the energy involved in the manufacture and disposal (and etc.) of cars.

alex73 wrote: »

We could in theory have 50% of our electricity from Wind and Wave power. and we all know we have a lot of wind.

We could all get on bikes and generate electricity with peddle power.

alex73 wrote: »

Also if our houses were properly insulated and with a solar power cell we could save 15 to 20% on our electricity bills.

Not sure what this has to do with electric cars. How long does it take for a solar panel to pay for itself? What's involved in manufacturing and disposal?

Sea Sharp · 19-04-2010 10:33PM

Won't be getting one of those any time soon.
Maybe when 5+% of people are driving them and the infrastructure is in place. Electric cars are only going to improve with time and I can see them replacing fossil fuel cars by 2040.

There is a good chance that by 2020 they will be selling electric cars with greater mile-range per charge than normal cars with a full tank.

goingpostal · 19-04-2010 10:36PM

Well let me see. An untested, new, unreliable, GAAAAY, car with very limited range promoted by GREENA FAIL vs the internal combustion engine, which we have been perfecting for over 100 years. Hmmmmmm, not much of a choice really. Even with the 5,000 grant they are still a huge gamble. I'd rather spend 900 euro on a 1995 Toyota Corolla that will run forever.

bob50 · 19-04-2010 10:41PM

Short and sweet i will never buy an electric car

Im not interested in the enviorment and this talk about global warming is hocus pocus

kraggy · 19-04-2010 10:57PM

alex73 wrote: »

We could in theory have 50% of our electricity from Wind and Wave power. and we all know we have a lot of wind.

Also if our houses were properly insulated and with a solar power cell we could save 15 to 20% on our electricity bills.

Overheal wrote: »

Assuming its a coal plant, Money Point, etc. etc. and not a Wind Farm, you still gain efficiency.

Coal is not exactly Gas, or Nuclear, or even Hydro, which are far more reactionary in how quickly you can adjust the output of the system. Its all just a matter of how much gas you inject into the system; how you adjust the control rods; or how much water you allow to pass through the turbine from reservoir.

Your Coal Fireplace for instance, takes a long time to heat up, and a long time to cool off. Plants have to anticipate electricity usage. And when they underestimate, you get a blackout, or a brownout. I can think of a few incidents. Anyway, it can take time before coal reaches critical temperature and begins its reaction. And once this happens, it takes even longer for the reaction to finish.

Anyway, in order to avoid blackouts and brownouts, you will often burn a margin of coal above what you might need to provide all the needs of the grid at the given timeframe. So arguably, a lot of electricity is in the grid during off-peak hours, already being wasted, that could be used to charge an electric vehicle. Which is about as expensive Joule-wise as charging an electric forklift - which many industries already use! Dun dun dunnn!

Thanks guys. Makes a little more sense now.

tomhappens · 19-04-2010 11:13PM

Drove one recently. They are very fast and powerful. They have 0-100% power available once you touch the throttle. Quite unusually tbh. They don't require the build up in torque that ICE (Internal combustion engine) vehicles require.

It will be a little like all new technologies. Slow up take but inevitably as the technology gets better, so will the uptake. Much like mobile phones, PC's etc etc.

Worth noting that this is not really a Green party thing but more driven by car manufacturers due to Ireland being a small island with a fairly savvy population and having one main electricity provider owning the national grid.

FunnyStuff · 19-04-2010 11:19PM

alex73 wrote: »

and we all know we have a lot of wind.

Harney the bitch!!!

mickdw · 19-04-2010 11:32PM

They will be fine for someone with a charge point at home & travelling about 30 miles each way per day. It will work in that case.
I certainly wouldnt buy one if I needed the full reported range a Im quite sure it wont be there whe needed. If you need to recharge on your journey, forget about it. Half hour charge at high speed charge point which doesnt exist yet. I cannot see too many fat charge points until there is demand for them. When the demand is there, it is likely there will be someone ele having a half hour charge just whe you need it.
The cars are also very much too expensive. All you are really getting is a city / commuter car. These would need to retail at about €15k for sure but even with all the government funding, they are nowhere near that.

Lu Tze · 19-04-2010 11:41PM

Does anybody know how the battery life holds out? After a year are youl likely to only be getting 70 miles as opposed to the 100 miles when new?

bnt · 19-04-2010 11:42PM

I'll almost certainly be getting one, but I can't say when, because I won't need a car of any sort in the near future. But I want to have it as part of a transport system e.g. if I have to go to Cork for some reason I'd expect to get the train and rent a car there cheaply. This idea of one car type, for all trips short and long, is part of the problem in my opinion.

It has sod-all to do with Irish politics - what do Nissan or Renault care about the little Irish Green Party, compared to the rest of Europe? This little backwater market won't be dictating what they sell: get over yerselves.

squod · 19-04-2010 11:58PM

l

alex73 · 20-04-2010 07:05PM

Lu Tze wrote: »

Does anybody know how the battery life holds out? After a year are youl likely to only be getting 70 miles as opposed to the 100 miles when new?

The battery is changed every year.

20-04-2010 07:11PM

Not any time soon but with improvements in range, battery weight, battery life etc. I'd have no problem getting one.

Overheal · 20-04-2010 07:18PM

Lu Tze wrote: »

Does anybody know how the battery life holds out? After a year are youl likely to only be getting 70 miles as opposed to the 100 miles when new?

My understanding is you Lease the Lithium Ion battery separately. Hence you would get it swapped regularly.

Its still gonna last you several years. A laptop battery SHOULD last normally 3-4 years. Mine sure has. But most people never take the thing off the plug. It ruins the battery life. I doubt youd see the same habit in an electric car though. Pretty impractical to drive on the plug.

Liam Byrne · 20-04-2010 07:25PM

Aside from the car and the crap range, how the hell do you install the charge point a home, and what does it cost, and is it tamper-proof, and can you stop some other gob****e plugging in and charging at your expense ?

And what about all those people in badly-planned estates where they can't park anywhere near their house, or those in apartments who park - if they're lucky - in a multi-storey ?

I doubt the snots have even considered any of the above issues.

Overheal · 20-04-2010 07:44PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Aside from the car and the crap range, how the hell do you install the charge point a home, and what does it cost, and is it tamper-proof, and can you stop some other gob****e plugging in and charging at your expense ?

Padlock the charge port? Pincode? ED-209?

And what about all those people in badly-planned estates where they can't park anywhere near their house, or those in apartments who park - if they're lucky - in a multi-storey ?

Don't buy electric yet?

I doubt the snots have even considered any of the above issues.

And how dare Steve Jobs make an iPad that people below the poverty line cant buy, too? Doesnt mean everyone and their granny wont get a hold of one in 5-10 years.

Liam Byrne · 20-04-2010 07:47PM

Overheal wrote: »

Padlock the charge port?

That only attempts to answer - badly - one of the issues in that sentence......what will it cost, etc ?

And my point was that it's not going to be padlocked while you're charging your car overnight, so there's nothing to stop someone disconnecting yours and connecting theirs, or just some local ASBO candidates disconnecting yours so that you're screwed in the morning. How does a padlock solve either of those ?

Overheal wrote: »

Don't buy electric yet?

What does "yet" have to do with it, if that's where they live ?

Overheal wrote: »

And how dare Steve Jobs make an iPad that people below the poverty line cant buy, too? Doesnt mean everyone and their granny wont get a hold of one in 5-10 years.

An iPad isn't a necessity in Ireland. A car pretty much is.

And with the new taxes on standard cars where you're being fleeced until you change, the Greens are ensuring that you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

Overheal · 20-04-2010 07:58PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

An iPad isn't a necessity in Ireland. A car pretty much is.

No. Its not. The Car is not even remotely as essential to daily life in Ireland as it is the US. England and France too for that matter, get on pretty well without cars for the most part. If you dont have a car in the US, even a little piece of ****, $300 beater, you're in real trouble. Its just how the place is lain out. America's Suburban sprawl; **** is just Not Generally Designed for foot traffic. No such thing as a Town Centre. I miss such things.

And with the new taxes on standard cars where you're being fleeced until you change, the Greens are ensuring that you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

Cant speak to that.

Liam Byrne · 20-04-2010 08:01PM

Overheal wrote: »

No. Its not. The Car is not even remotely as essential to daily life in Ireland as it is the US.

I have no idea what the U.S. has to do with this discussion, or what "not as essential" even means (considering something is either essential or its not)

I don't know where you're living, but I can tell you for a fact that a car is an absolute essential in most parts of Ireland.

Overheal · 20-04-2010 08:15PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

That only attempts to answer - badly - one of the issues in that sentence......what will it cost, etc ?

Can't help you there.

And my point was that it's not going to be padlocked while you're charging your car overnight, so there's nothing to stop someone disconnecting yours and connecting theirs, or just some local ASBO candidates disconnecting yours so that you're screwed in the morning. How does a padlock solve either of those ?

http://www.amazon.com/MM510C-Weatherproof-Outdoor-Receptacle-Protector/dp/B001JEPX4Y

+

Padlock

= Win.

You could also very easily distinguish through the plug itself the ID of the vehicle being charged. Similarly my Jeep Key knows the difference between my key and a duplicate someone made of my key at Lowe's, thanks to RFID.

dlofnep · 20-04-2010 08:29PM

If the infrastructure was setup all over Ireland at the mo, I would. When it does - I'd be interested. Green, and cheap!

Liam Byrne · 20-04-2010 08:39PM

Overheal wrote: »

http://www.amazon.com/MM510C-Weatherproof-Outdoor-Receptacle-Protector/dp/B001JEPX4Y

+

Padlock

= Win.

I don't see a facility to padlock that while it's plugged in, but I do take your point.

I would still say that the plastic is easily broken / vandalised, so your other suggestion would also be required in order to ensure that someone didn't just break the plastic and plug in their car.

Overheal wrote: »

You could also very easily distinguish through the plug itself the ID of the vehicle being charged. Similarly my Jeep Key knows the difference between my key and a duplicate someone made of my key at Lowe's, thanks to RFID.

And I'm not saying that it's not technically possible, either; I just don't believe that all of this has been thought through by those proposing it.

Nuttzz · 20-04-2010 11:46PM

Im going to buy one as soon as they become available and then run over John Gromley on his mountain bike

"Thats a shame John, you'd of hear me if it was a diesel"

Electric car, Would you buy one.

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