Electric car, Would you buy one.

alex73

The goverment has announced a 5000 euro Grant for the 1st 2000 customers who buy the new electric cars. (Renault Leaf I think)

I suppose its fine for those who already have a car and want to show off the new electric car. But for your ordinary Paddy blogs its not practical.

Out of interests who many boards readers will buy the new cars?

Don't get me wrong I think they are a good idea (if they could be charge quickly) but I can't see myself me the 1st to buy one.

mikom

alex73 wrote: »

Out of interests who many boards readers will buy the new cars?

Me no know.

bluto63

With the grant, a large amount of people will get them which will encourage setting up a proper system to charge the cars. I think it's a good idea

But I won't be voting since I can't see myself getting a car of any form in the foreseeable future.

Blobby George

Some yuppies will probably pick up a few as a second car but they just aren't practical for people making long journeys.

o1s1n

"Hello, i'm an electric car. I don't drive very fast or go very far. And if you drive me, people will think you're GAAAY."

TheZohanS

It's hard enough to remember to charge my phone, don't need the headache of having to charge a car.

Too much hassle.

Overheal

Leaf is an electric car zero-emission electric cars driven 80kW. 160km cruising power and quick-charge to 80% capacity of less than 30 minutes. With a top speed was mentioned more than this indicates 140km/jam not just city-car.

If it really has 100 mile range, it could be worthwhile. But, its not exactly a Chevy Volt (the Volt has a gas generator backup) and so you really do run the risk of dying on the road, and the compulsion to charge up for ~30 minutes at a time during a lengthy trip.

Probably would do fine for most commuters (even in dark winter - expect half the range when the headlights, wipers and radio are on?) but I dont see anyone jumping on board: its a Zero Emissions vehicle [the Leaf] for the sake of being Zero Emissions. The Volt, and Extended Range Electric Vehicles (EREVs) at least attempt to sanely address practicality and fuel economy.

squod

Green party can bite my ass. No to electric cars if buying one means I'm on their side.

Son Of A Vidic

If I was offered one for free by the government, I wouldn't touch it. Now if it could match the speed of my current car and it's fuel tank range, well then maybe. At the moment it's just a bull$h1t, unpractical excuse for a car so I'll be 'steering' clear of it.

alex73

o1s1n wrote: »

"Hello, i'm an electric car. I don't drive very fast or go very far. And if you drive me, people will think you're GAAAY."

well to balance the discussion (and I am not rushing to buy it) but the speeds are that same as a regular car. up to 140km per hr. speed is not the issue for me, its the range you can travel, and speed of recharge. But I suppose for Dublin it would be fine, but I don't live in Dublin...

PeterIanStaker

I'll promise to buy an electric car if the Greens gimme the five grand

alwaysadub

I won't be running out to buy one, but if,and when, they manage to make one thats fast and reliable, and can go for more than a few hours without needing to be charged, then maybe i'd think about it.
Provided they haven't bumped up the price of the electricity needed to charge the stupid thing!

PK2008

I dont really care about the environment

alex73

squod wrote: »

Green party can bite my ass. No to electric cars if buying one means I'm on their side.

I don't mind the Green Party idealism, I suppose better to fail than have not done anything at all, But they honestly only think about the people in Dublin.

Kasabian

alex73 wrote: »

well to balance the discussion (and I am not rushing to buy it) but the speeds are that same as a regular car. up to 140km per hr. speed is not the issue for me, its the range you can travel, and speed of recharge. But I suppose for Dublin it would be fine, but I don't live in Dublin...

Yah the range would be a major issue for me also , how long does it take to charge one of these cars

alex73

lonad wrote: »

Yah the range would be a major issue for me also , how long does it take to charge one of these cars

They said with a fast charge 30 mins, now can you imagine a car with kids waiting 30mins to recharge your car?? Its the 160Km range and speed of recharge that gets me. I could not get to Mullingar from Castlebar without stopping for 30mins to recharge. I see the greens point, we have to drive interest. but even with the 5000 euro grant the Renault leaf is still as expensive as a normal car.

At the end of the day is really only a dubliners car for upper middle class who can afford to buy new cars.

Fear Uladh

Out of pure hatred of the green party im going to buy the car that guzzles more petrol than a ten ton lorry.

mikom

alex73 wrote: »

I don't mind the Green Party idealism, I suppose better to fail than have not done anything at all, But they honestly only think about the people in Dublin.

Yep, basically their dream is to have everybody living in apartments in cities whilst the countryside returns to a nature reserve complete with mounds of bramble, wild boar, and sabre tooth tigers.

alex73

Chillaxe wrote: »

Out of pure hatred of the green party im going to buy the car that guzzles more petrol than a ten ton lorry.

I get the point, but I suppose in Hindsight, if there ever will be a new middle east war and oil hits $200 a barrel the only cars running will the the electric ones... And they will be laughing a our posts..

Fear Uladh

alex73 wrote: »

I get the point, but I suppose in Hindsight, if there ever will be a new middle east war and oil hits $200 a barrel the only cars running will the the electric ones... And they will be laughing a our posts..

We have bikes dont we?;)

Pure_Cork

My petrol car is more environmentally friendly than electric cars, but if the Green Party want to give me money to do more damage to the environment I'd consider getting one for a laugh.

Kasabian

alex73 wrote: »

They said with a fast charge 30 mins, now can you imagine a car with kids waiting 30mins to recharge your car?? Its the 160Km range and speed of recharge that gets me. I could not get to Mullingar from Castlebar without stopping for 30mins to recharge. I see the greens point, we have to drive interest. but even with the 5000 euro grant the Renault leaf is still as expensive as a normal car.

At the end of the day is really only a dubliners car for upper middle class who can afford to buy new cars.

30 mins isn't bad if you plan it into your journey time but I reckon you are right , it really is a city car till the range can be improved.

Anyway I'd imagine they are very quiet and i would miss the sound of the engine as you change up the gears.

Atlantic Dawn

Give users of electric cars free onstreet parking and let them use the bus lanes, this will make them catch on, otherwise can't see them selling at the current price.

TPD

Could they not have battery swap stations rather than recharge stations? Let the station charge the batteries all day, only takes two seconds to swap when you need more power.

I dunno what size the batteries are though, mightn't be feasible.

alex73

lonad wrote: »

30 mins isn't bad if you plan it into your journey time but I reckon you are right , it really is a city car till the range can be improved.

Anyway I'd imagine they are very quiet and i would miss the sound of the engine as you change up the gears.

Actually the cars generate a sound similar to normal car, it was one of the issues that people could not hear them coming.

alex73

TPD wrote: »

Could they not have battery swap stations rather than recharge stations? Let the station charge the batteries all day, only takes two seconds to swap when you need more power.

I dunno what size the batteries are though, mightn't be feasible.

Thats not a bad idea!!, Battery cell swap like gas cylinders being returned once empty,

You might be onto a winner here. The batteries are big, but a 15kg backup battery cell could be swapped.

biko

Although a e-car would be very ok for most peoples daily commute to work every day it seems people a) don't want some futuristic looking yoke, and b) are afraid to run out of electricity somehow in mid-town traffic.
Some cars charge quicker than others, for instance Phoenix SUV has a 100 mile range (that's 3/4 of the way from Galway to Dublin) and can charge 95% in 10 mins while you have coffee.
More info
www.mygreenwheels.com/ev-comparison-guide

Prof.Badass

I think it's great that the government are finally taking the initiative on something. We really need to free ourselves from our dependance on oil. If i had money to buy a car and if this was in my price range I'd seriously consider getting it.

I wonder how many people on this thread also give out that the government never do anything pro-active...

Lu Tze

I think the fast charge (30mins) is only available on three phase power, so at home its going to take hours...

Lu Tze

vinylmesh wrote: »

We really need to free ourselves from our dependance on oil.

I'll wait for a nuclear fusion powered car

Prof.Badass

TPD wrote: »

Could they not have battery swap stations rather than recharge stations? Let the station charge the batteries all day, only takes two seconds to swap when you need more power.

I dunno what size the batteries are though, mightn't be feasible.

That's an idea that's been discussed before and definitely one which will become the standard when (hopefully) electric cars catch on. Definitely feasible in theory, maybe not for this specific car. Says on wikipedia home charging would take 8 hours here (16 in the US coz they're crap :P).

alex73

vinylmesh wrote: »

I think it's great that the government are finally taking the initiative on something. We really need to free ourselves from our dependance on oil. If i had money to buy a car and if this was in my price range I'd seriously consider getting it.

I wonder how many people on this thread also give out that the government never do anything pro-active...

I also think its a step forward, better to be doing something proactive. And regardless of Fianna Fail, Greens or any other party at the end of the day we import all our petrol.

I think its a game of wait and see.. Many ideas like the Phone and TV at the beginning were see as jokes, but we all use them today. I suppose in 20 years we could be all driving them. But today as it stands they are expensive and its a Gamble to buy one without the infrastructure in place. but then again do you waste money on instrasture that we may not use?

Pure_Cork

vinylmesh wrote: »

I think it's great that the government are finally taking the initiative on something. We really need to free ourselves from our dependance on oil. If i had money to buy a car and if this was in my price range I'd seriously consider getting it.

I wonder how many people on this thread also give out that the government never do anything pro-active...

The government will be building a lot of new power stations so?

kraggy

Can someone please explain to me how these are good for the environment. Surely the saving on emissions from the car are negated by the emissions from the power plant (assuming the power plant burns fossil fuels)?

crosstownk

some website wrote:

Low Operating Cost Means High Savings are Possible
It is important to note that the vehicle price does not include the lithium-ion battery. This will be leased to motorists at €1200 a year. But with running costs as little as 3 cents/mile compared to 15c/mile for petrol/diesel it is possible to break even at 12,000km per year or just 30km/day. With the average vehicle in Ireland covering 17,000km per year at present according to the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, the potential savings are considerable. (Drivers of electric vehicles must pay €1,200 annual fee for battery rental, Paul Melia, Irish Independent, Saturday March 27 2010)



Read more at Suite101: Ireland to be Test Bed for Electric Vehicle Roll-Out http://energy-conservation.suite101.com/article.cfm/ireland-to-be-test-bed-for-electric-vehicle-roll-out#ixzz0la9wxQqB

Full article here > http://energy-conservation.suite101.com/article.cfm/ireland-to-be-test-bed-for-electric-vehicle-roll-out

alex73

kraggy wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me how these are good for the environment. Surely the saving on emissions from the car are negated by the emissions from the power plant (assuming the power plant burns fossil fuels)?

We could in theory have 50% of our electricity from Wind and Wave power. and we all know we have a lot of wind.

Also if our houses were properly insulated and with a solar power cell we could save 15 to 20% on our electricity bills.

pcardin

alex73 wrote: »

We could in theory have 50% of our electricity from Wind and Wave power. and we all know we have a lot of wind.

Also if our houses were properly insulated and with a solar power cell we could save 15 to 20% on our electricity bills.

Yes but then Irish government wil start to introduce Wind&Wave Tax, Solar Power tax etc.

Overheal

kraggy wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me how these are good for the environment. Surely the saving on emissions from the car are negated by the emissions from the power plant (assuming the power plant burns fossil fuels)?

Assuming its a coal plant, Money Point, etc. etc. and not a Wind Farm, you still gain efficiency.

Coal is not exactly Gas, or Nuclear, or even Hydro, which are far more reactionary in how quickly you can adjust the output of the system. Its all just a matter of how much gas you inject into the system; how you adjust the control rods; or how much water you allow to pass through the turbine from reservoir.

Your Coal Fireplace for instance, takes a long time to heat up, and a long time to cool off. Plants have to anticipate electricity usage. And when they underestimate, you get a blackout, or a brownout. I can think of a few incidents. Anyway, it can take time before coal reaches critical temperature and begins its reaction. And once this happens, it takes even longer for the reaction to finish.

Anyway, in order to avoid blackouts and brownouts, you will often burn a margin of coal above what you might need to provide all the needs of the grid at the given timeframe. So arguably, a lot of electricity is in the grid during off-peak hours, already being wasted, that could be used to charge an electric vehicle. Which is about as expensive Joule-wise as charging an electric forklift - which many industries already use! Dun dun dunnn!

Pure_Cork

kraggy wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me how these are good for the environment. Surely the saving on emissions from the car are negated by the emissions from the power plant (assuming the power plant burns fossil fuels)?

Yeah, essentially shifting the point of combustion. To get a proper picture you also have to look at the energy involved in the manufacture and disposal (and etc.) of cars.

alex73 wrote: »

We could in theory have 50% of our electricity from Wind and Wave power. and we all know we have a lot of wind.

We could all get on bikes and generate electricity with peddle power.

alex73 wrote: »

Also if our houses were properly insulated and with a solar power cell we could save 15 to 20% on our electricity bills.

Not sure what this has to do with electric cars. How long does it take for a solar panel to pay for itself? What's involved in manufacturing and disposal?

Sea Sharp

Won't be getting one of those any time soon.
Maybe when 5+% of people are driving them and the infrastructure is in place. Electric cars are only going to improve with time and I can see them replacing fossil fuel cars by 2040.

There is a good chance that by 2020 they will be selling electric cars with greater mile-range per charge than normal cars with a full tank.

goingpostal

Well let me see. An untested, new, unreliable, GAAAAY, car with very limited range promoted by GREENA FAIL vs the internal combustion engine, which we have been perfecting for over 100 years. Hmmmmmm, not much of a choice really. Even with the 5,000 grant they are still a huge gamble. I'd rather spend 900 euro on a 1995 Toyota Corolla that will run forever.

bob50

Short and sweet i will never buy an electric car

Im not interested in the enviorment and this talk about global warming is hocus pocus

kraggy

alex73 wrote: »

We could in theory have 50% of our electricity from Wind and Wave power. and we all know we have a lot of wind.

Also if our houses were properly insulated and with a solar power cell we could save 15 to 20% on our electricity bills.

Overheal wrote: »

Assuming its a coal plant, Money Point, etc. etc. and not a Wind Farm, you still gain efficiency.

Coal is not exactly Gas, or Nuclear, or even Hydro, which are far more reactionary in how quickly you can adjust the output of the system. Its all just a matter of how much gas you inject into the system; how you adjust the control rods; or how much water you allow to pass through the turbine from reservoir.

Your Coal Fireplace for instance, takes a long time to heat up, and a long time to cool off. Plants have to anticipate electricity usage. And when they underestimate, you get a blackout, or a brownout. I can think of a few incidents. Anyway, it can take time before coal reaches critical temperature and begins its reaction. And once this happens, it takes even longer for the reaction to finish.

Anyway, in order to avoid blackouts and brownouts, you will often burn a margin of coal above what you might need to provide all the needs of the grid at the given timeframe. So arguably, a lot of electricity is in the grid during off-peak hours, already being wasted, that could be used to charge an electric vehicle. Which is about as expensive Joule-wise as charging an electric forklift - which many industries already use! Dun dun dunnn!

Thanks guys. Makes a little more sense now.

tomhappens

Drove one recently. They are very fast and powerful. They have 0-100% power available once you touch the throttle. Quite unusually tbh. They don't require the build up in torque that ICE (Internal combustion engine) vehicles require.

It will be a little like all new technologies. Slow up take but inevitably as the technology gets better, so will the uptake. Much like mobile phones, PC's etc etc.

Worth noting that this is not really a Green party thing but more driven by car manufacturers due to Ireland being a small island with a fairly savvy population and having one main electricity provider owning the national grid.

FunnyStuff

alex73 wrote: »

and we all know we have a lot of wind.

Harney the bitch!!!

mickdw

They will be fine for someone with a charge point at home & travelling about 30 miles each way per day. It will work in that case.
I certainly wouldnt buy one if I needed the full reported range a Im quite sure it wont be there whe needed. If you need to recharge on your journey, forget about it. Half hour charge at high speed charge point which doesnt exist yet. I cannot see too many fat charge points until there is demand for them. When the demand is there, it is likely there will be someone ele having a half hour charge just whe you need it.
The cars are also very much too expensive. All you are really getting is a city / commuter car. These would need to retail at about €15k for sure but even with all the government funding, they are nowhere near that.

Lu Tze

Does anybody know how the battery life holds out? After a year are youl likely to only be getting 70 miles as opposed to the 100 miles when new?

bnt

I'll almost certainly be getting one, but I can't say when, because I won't need a car of any sort in the near future. But I want to have it as part of a transport system e.g. if I have to go to Cork for some reason I'd expect to get the train and rent a car there cheaply. This idea of one car type, for all trips short and long, is part of the problem in my opinion.

It has sod-all to do with Irish politics - what do Nissan or Renault care about the little Irish Green Party, compared to the rest of Europe? This little backwater market won't be dictating what they sell: get over yerselves.

squod

l

alex73

Lu Tze wrote: »

Does anybody know how the battery life holds out? After a year are youl likely to only be getting 70 miles as opposed to the 100 miles when new?

The battery is changed every year.

Not any time soon but with improvements in range, battery weight, battery life etc. I'd have no problem getting one.