Gardaí want fingerprints taken in all arrests

galwayrush · 14-04-2010 11:09PM

kuntboy wrote: »

Not surprised most people on here think this is OK, because most Irish people are morons.

No, most Irish people are law abiding citizens, and have nothing to fear.:cool:

Run_to_da_hills · 14-04-2010 11:20PM

galwayrush wrote: »

No, most Irish people are law abiding citizens, and have nothing to fear.:cool:

Depends on the law and how it is enforced, if it goes down the UK route there will be quite a lot of people having their finger prints swabbed for trivial matters such as leaving a wheely bin slightly overflowing or placed out on the wrong day.

goat2 · 14-04-2010 11:23PM

Bonito wrote: »

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Can't see myself giving the guards a reason to take my prints.

i am all for it

galwayrush · 14-04-2010 11:24PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Depends on the law and how it is enforced, if it goes down the UK route there will be quite a lot of people having their finger prints swabbed for trivial matters such as leaving a wheely bin slightly overflowing or placed out on the wrong day.

Well, those bastards certainly deserve it.:pac:

Traumadoc · 14-04-2010 11:33PM

They have it in the US for years, thats why they have such a low crime rate:rolleyes:

If it is to be a deterent I doubt it will work.
If its to make crime detection easier please provide data that the detection/conviction rate for crime will be improved. Otherwise it may be a waste of resources.

(You could just as easy argue to fingerprint all members of a certain ethnic minority group.)

Spacedog · 14-04-2010 11:34PM

galwayrush wrote: »

No, most Irish people are law abiding citizens, and have nothing to fear.:cool:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0414/garda.html

Superintendents say too much of their time is spent on investigations for the Garda Ombudsman, which the Commission should carry out instead.

Example. An honest farmer in Mayo protesting a corrupt Government/Garda/Company gets arrested to silence him, takes a few kicks in the cell, goes to court, no charge, reports to Garda Ombudsman, Ombudsman says to Garda Superintendent 'investigate this', Superintendent says 'everythings fine' in report, Ombudsman sticks his name on the coverpage and releases it to the media as an "independent investigation".

The Garda will leave you alone if you sit down shut up and do what you're told, if you cross them, or if or disagree with their values, you have no protection.

The Gardai who batton charged and assaulted the protestors against apartheid in the 80s are happily enjoying their retirement.

The Gardai are people like anyone else, they understandably put covering their own arses ahead of the public intrest. They have a tough job, and they cut corners in their role of protecting the public and civil liberties laws in order to protect one another. It's a human to do, but mistakes will always me made and excessive powers like this will be abused.

sdanseo · 14-04-2010 11:39PM

I actually think this is a good idea. If you don't commit a crime then you'll have nothing to worry about, and if you do then you simply won't stand as much of a chance of getting off the hook. More criminals off the streets, job done. Fair play.

If you're worried about this as a breach of privacy - I could understand if private enterprise or criminals etc got hold of my prints but I'm not going to kick up a fuss if the Gardaí get them.

Pygmalion · 15-04-2010 12:14AM

Serious question:
Gardaí/CIA/Zionists/Soviets have your fingerprints.
How does this negatively affect you any more than them having a photograph of you, your date of birth or anything else on file in every government computer (slight exaggeration but you get the point)?

Not saying you're wrong, but I sincerely fail at seeing how you could possibly be right and would like to be informed.
If the answer is "But, like, I don't want THE MAN to know about me", then I suggest you cancel your passport and driving licence immediately

A_Border_Bandit · 15-04-2010 12:17AM

I'm in favour! If you have nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear...

robinph · 15-04-2010 12:34AM

Pygmalion wrote: »

"But, like, I don't want THE MAN to know about me"

Doesn't matter how much you might trust "THE MAN" who is in power today to not do anything dodgy with having that much information on the population. It's "THE MAN" who might be in power tomorrow that I don't trust, and by then it is far too late to take it back.

Sonnenblumen · 15-04-2010 12:46AM

.[/QUOTE]

Criminals have nothing to fear!

Sonnenblumen · 15-04-2010 12:48AM

kuntboy wrote: »

Not surprised most people on here think this is OK, because most Irish people are morons.

does it also include he-shes?

strobe · 15-04-2010 01:51AM

How could it be considered an invasion of privacy? Do you think the gardai are going to be in the station at night maturbating to printouts of your finger prints or something?

Pygmalion · 15-04-2010 02:18AM

robinph wrote: »

Doesn't matter how much you might trust "THE MAN" who is in power today to not do anything dodgy with having that much information on the population. It's "THE MAN" who might be in power tomorrow that I don't trust, and by then it is far too late to take it back.

The question isn't whether you trust them, the question is why a fingerprint supposedly gives them the power to become a Stalinist state.

Why do people so gladly hand over their name, address, date of birth, photos of themselves etc. etc. and kick up a fuss when they ask for a fingerprint.
I imagine this hypothetical government (and I'm not making fun, I can't say it'll never happen) can do a lot more with a photo of you and directions to your house than they can with a fingerprint, yet no-one claims that taking a passport photo is setting us up for Hitler 2.0
IMO it's just "OMG NEW TECHNOLOGY, SURELY THERE'S SOME WAY IT CAN BE USED TO DESTROY OUR FREEDOM, EVEN IF NO-ONE KNOWS HOW"

2Scoops · 15-04-2010 05:33AM

TheNog wrote: »

If a person who has been fingerprinted and is subseuently found innocent in court, the fingerprints are then destroyed. They are only stored if you are found guilty.

That is not actually true. They are kept at the discretion of the Gardaí, though you can request to the Garda Commissioner that they be destroyed. No guarantee they'll say yes, and most people couldn't be arsed writing a letter tbh. :pac:

Hagar · 15-04-2010 08:44AM

So in future when the Gardaí find fingerprints at a crimescene instead of having to compare them with a fingerprint database of say 100,000 convicted criminals they will now have to trawl through maybe 300,000 sets of prints many of which will belong to people who have never been convicted of anything.

The efficiency of the system could be improved slightly by carrying out the checking in a darkened room by partially sighted Gardaí wearing welding goggles.

Wile E. Coyote · 15-04-2010 01:36PM

Hagar wrote: »

So in future when the Gardaí find fingerprints at a crimescene instead of having to compare them with a fingerprint database of say 100,000 convicted criminals they will now have to trawl through maybe 300,000 sets of prints many of which will belong to people who have never been convicted of anything.

The efficiency of the system could be improved slightly by carrying out the checking in a darkened room by partially sighted Gardaí wearing welding goggles.

You do realise that the prints would be stored and checked on a COMPUTER, great little machine thats been around for a few years now. You may have heard of them! Your not going to have a Guard sitting on his ar*e for days going through 300,000 sets of prints with a magnifying glass! :rolleyes:

Run_to_da_hills · 15-04-2010 01:41PM

Finger print scanning. :eek:

Wile E. Coyote · 15-04-2010 01:43PM

robinph wrote: »

Doesn't matter how much you might trust "THE MAN" who is in power today to not do anything dodgy with having that much information on the population. It's "THE MAN" who might be in power tomorrow that I don't trust, and by then it is far too late to take it back.

I hate to burst your paranoia bubble but 'THE MAN' is not out to get you. In fact he probably doesn't know/care that you even exist.

It's about time this country moved into the 21st Century and if that involves keeping fingerprints of anyone thats ever been arrested then thats the way it should go. If someone wanted to stich you up then they will do it anyway whether they've your prints or not.

People throw around far more sensitive information every day whether it be writing a cheque, opening a bank account or even disposing of their mail.

Miss_Ellie · 15-04-2010 02:01PM

I'm just shocked that fingerprints aren't already being taken from everybody who is arrested!!!!!!

Flipping heck!!!!

:eek:

robinph · 15-04-2010 02:06PM

Pygmalion wrote: »

The question isn't whether you trust them, the question is why a fingerprint supposedly gives them the power to become a Stalinist state.

Why do people so gladly hand over their name, address, date of birth, photos of themselves etc. etc. and kick up a fuss when they ask for a fingerprint.
I imagine this hypothetical government (and I'm not making fun, I can't say it'll never happen) can do a lot more with a photo of you and directions to your house than they can with a fingerprint, yet no-one claims that taking a passport photo is setting us up for Hitler 2.0
IMO it's just "OMG NEW TECHNOLOGY, SURELY THERE'S SOME WAY IT CAN BE USED TO DESTROY OUR FREEDOM, EVEN IF NO-ONE KNOWS HOW"

It's not actually the fingerprints that people have a problem with, it's the continued accumulation of all this data into one central database that is the issue. This fingerprint thing is not even going to be part of that at this stage, but each extra thing they collect about you, and people then willingly give, then makes the next thing that much easier for them to take.

Yes the government have lots of various bits of information on all of us, but they are all separate and each department only has the information that is actually relevant to them. The passport office does not need to know the state of any welfare claims, and the welfare office does not need to know the biometrics taken from a photo of me on the passport. Once you start putting all these things together into one big database you should be very scared of what a government might then do with that information. If not this current government, but the next one.

Of course someone will also then go and leave their laptop in the back seat of a taxi as well and then the information is free for anyone else to get as well.

Hagar · 15-04-2010 02:15PM

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

You do realise that the prints would be stored and checked on a COMPUTER, great little machine thats been around for a few years now. You may have heard of them! Your not going to have a Guard sitting on his ar*e for days going through 300,000 sets of prints with a magnifying glass! :rolleyes:

We are talking about the same Gardai who have to use their own mobile phones because their communications system is shambles? The same Gardai who are struggling with the Pulse system? I'm not confident in their technological expertise.

Bob Z · 15-04-2010 02:48PM

k_mac wrote: »

The point of taking fingerprints of everyone who is arrested would be to eliminate the possability of someone giving a false name or address.

how often does this happen?

Selected · 15-04-2010 02:49PM

Jesus people - it's not as if they're looking for DNA!

doncarlos · 15-04-2010 02:54PM

Bonito wrote: »

What exactly is your objection to giving your prints to the guardaí if you commit a crime?

There is a big difference between being arrested and committing a crime. Plenty of innocent people are arrested.

robinph · 15-04-2010 02:56PM

Selected wrote: »

Jesus people - it's not as if they're looking for DNA!

Some time later....

"But they already have everyone's fingerprints on file, what difference does it make now if they have our DNA as well?"

Selected · 15-04-2010 03:09PM

robinph wrote: »

"But they already have everyone's fingerprints on file, what difference does it make now if they have our DNA as well?"

DNA profiling.:eek:

syklops · 15-04-2010 04:02PM

k_mac wrote: »

Anything which has a punishment of five years or more on first conviction.

So in this country basically only serious things like mass murder and Genocide.

syklops · 15-04-2010 04:13PM

Hagar wrote: »

We are talking about the same Gardai who have to use their own mobile phones because their communications system is shambles? The same Gardai who are struggling with the Pulse system? I'm not confident in their technological expertise.

Its not the expertise thats the problem its the infrastructure. The reason they use their mobiles is because the comms net can be listened in on by anyone with a scanner that you can buy off ebay or build easily enough. Thats not down to technical expertise, thats bad management, planning, and probably funding.

Hagar · 15-04-2010 04:55PM

No offence intended to individual Gardaí btw. It's the management organization I'm scornful of.

Gardaí want fingerprints taken in all arrests

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