Gardaí want fingerprints taken in all arrests

MagicSean · 14-04-2010 03:56PM

Horse_box wrote: »

Say if I got caught having a leak down an alley way at 4am because there is no public toilets in the area. This is breaking the law, a law nearly everyone has broken at some stage

Should I have to give finger prints if I were to get caught performing a basic bodily function because there is no public toilets?

In some states in America that would get you on the sex offenders register.

rasper · 14-04-2010 04:00PM

k_mac wrote: »

You assume that everyone arrested is innocent as you are. Newsflash gardaí have no interest in arresting innocent people despite what you might read on indymedia.

Frank McBrearty Jrn in Donegal might just be one of the many to disagree with you their

Run_to_da_hills · 14-04-2010 04:01PM

sam34 wrote: »

where's run to da hills when you need him :pac:

Wile E. Coyote · 14-04-2010 04:04PM

Horse_box wrote: »

Say if I got caught having a leak down an alley way at 4am because there is no public toilets in the area. This is breaking the law, a law nearly everyone has broken at some stage

Should I have to give finger prints if I were to get caught performing a basic bodily function because there is no public toilets?

Try using the facilities in the pub/club you've just come from instead of pi**ing in the streets and then blaming the fact that there's no public toilets!

Horse_box · 14-04-2010 04:37PM

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

Try using the facilities in the pub/club you've just come from instead of pi**ing in the streets and then blaming the fact that there's no public toilets!

I always make sure to take a leak before coming out of a venue. Still though, I would have to go again soon after leaving the club. No public toilets around. What am I to do?

MagicSean · 14-04-2010 04:43PM

Horse_box wrote: »

I always make sure to take a leak before coming out of a venue. Still though, I would have to go again soon after leaving the club. No public toilets around. What am I to do?

Don't drink so much. If you caught someone pissing up against your property would you be happy with that excuse?

Prof.Badass · 14-04-2010 04:50PM

k_mac wrote: »

And everyone who has been arrested to be charged has committed a crime. That is why they are being arrested.

*facepalm*

Horse_box · 14-04-2010 04:53PM

k_mac wrote: »

Don't drink so much. If you caught someone pissing up against your property would you be happy with that excuse?

Does a drain really count as someones property?

Saying don't drink so much is a ridiculous argument anyway. What if I was in town, not drinking at all and had to go for a piss when everywhere was closed. Should I have to hold it in and damage my body/bladder? You've never taken a leak outside ever?

Manic Moran · 14-04-2010 04:54PM

fingerprinting is already very common in garda stations, but they destroy them after a length of time,

This seems to be the best answer: Run a non-stored check against file prints, see if any hit. If not, nothing is kept in the system.

If anyone's curious, statisticians have concluded that you can start to get meaningful numbers of hits on evidence found at crime scenes once you've enrolled about 5% of a population into a biometrics database. Don't understand how, myself, but that's what they tell me.

NTM

pickarooney · 14-04-2010 05:31PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

If anyone's curious, statisticians have concluded that you can start to get meaningful numbers of hits on evidence found at crime scenes once you've enrolled about 5% of a population into a biometrics database. Don't understand how, myself, but that's what they tell me.

NTM

Did they tell you which 5% of the population that was though?

crossmolinalad · 14-04-2010 06:22PM

Morlar wrote: »

I am waiting on someone to say ESB Bill or xtravision card.

Passports like the dutch
Everyone in Holland who wants a new passport or id card needs to give 4 fingerprints
Two are going into your passport included a chip with all of your details and two prints are going into a central data base
Theyre bussy to organize that system for all of the eu countries

Slugs · 14-04-2010 06:31PM

crossmolinalad wrote: »

Passports like the dutch
Everyone in Holland who wants a new passport or id card needs to give 4 fingerprints
Two are going into your passport included a chip with all of your details and two prints are going into a central data base
Theyre bussy to organize that system for all of the eu countries

I guess I won't be getting anyone of those soon...

TheNog · 14-04-2010 06:38PM

MaybeLogic wrote: »

This is one of the reasons why I would be against fingerprinting of innocent (yet to be proven guilty/charged with minor crime) people...

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/29/1941206

Am I not a sovereign individual with rights as to the uses and abuses of my body?* Why as an innocent person should I allow somebody to file and store a copy of what is essentially my private property.
A bad road to start down, imo.

*(no I'm not or I could take whatever drugs I wanted, without it constituting a crime)

If a person who has been fingerprinted and is subseuently found innocent in court, the fingerprints are then destroyed. They are only stored if you are found guilty.

Lastly storing of fingerprints of people found guilty of an indictable offence has been happening here for many years.

TheNog · 14-04-2010 06:41PM

rasper wrote: »

Frank McBrearty Jrn in Donegal might just be one of the many to disagree with you their

That was about 12 yrs ago now and was a huge miscarraige of justice. Thankfully alot of lessons were learned from that to prevent something like this happening again.

14-04-2010 06:45PM

Since it came up earlier, I recommend reading this on the subject of "nothing to hide" "only the guilty..." etc

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565

Mike 1972 · 14-04-2010 08:15PM

Noting to hide = nothing to fear ?

TheNog wrote: »

That was about 12 yrs ago now and was a huge miscarraige of justice. Thankfully alot of lessons were learned from that to prevent something like this happening again.

Er werent the same things said RE: Nicky Kelly ?

hooradiation · 14-04-2010 08:27PM

Biggins wrote: »

Do me and the rest of us a favour - go back and state what I've actually WRITTEN.

Please note I said "SOME" - but hell, lets gloss over that for the sake of having yet another dig and rewording my words.
I used to that from you.

The fact that you felt the need to said it at all is what's pathetic.

It doesn't matter if you added a some, the very notion that you're comfortable with trying to create a connection between anyone who opposes this idea and criminals is the problem.

TheNog · 14-04-2010 08:28PM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Er werent the same things said RE: Nicky Kelly ?

I honestly dont know but I can tell there has been massive advances in procedures and investigative techniques since the Donegal thing.

Biggins · 14-04-2010 08:48PM

hooradiation wrote: »

The fact that you felt the need to said it at all is what's pathetic.

It doesn't matter if you added a some, the very notion that you're comfortable with trying to create a connection between anyone who opposes this idea and criminals is the problem.

"Need to said (???) it"

I DID NOT add a "some" (would the mods please note this lying garbage ONCE AGAIN).
Only spellings was corrected. "Some" has been there since the original posting.
Kop yourself on.

READ MY FCUKIN' POST AGAIN.
I DID NOT SAY "ANYONE"
I SAID "SOME" - and I later explain who those "SOME" is.

Go and read the fcukin' post that's written - not the blind schite you want to read only and make up the rest.

Chuchoter · 14-04-2010 08:59PM

Sounds good to me, but they should bring in DNA as well. Unless you're planning on robbing a bank or murdering someone it shouldn't really matter whether or not they have your prints

MagicSean · 14-04-2010 09:02PM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Noting to hide = nothing to fear ?

Er werent the same things said RE: Nicky Kelly ?

That was even longer ago. And im sure the use of fingerprinting would only have helped him.

TheZohanS · 14-04-2010 09:10PM

Horse_box wrote: »

Say if I got caught having a leak down an alley way at 4am because there is no public toilets in the area. This is breaking the law, a law nearly everyone has broken at some stage

Should I have to give finger prints if I were to get caught performing a basic bodily function because there is no public toilets?

Havent head of many people getting arrested for having a leak in public tbh.

Mike 1972 · 14-04-2010 09:11PM

I know of a few ^^^

k_mac wrote: »

That was even longer ago. And im sure the use of fingerprinting would only have helped him.

You mean like in the way that it didnt ?

Tail Wagger · 14-04-2010 09:15PM

I can't really see any problem with cops having ones finger prints on file.
Lots of reasons for this, deaths in unusual circumstances. If you haven't done anything wrong you will have nothing to worry about.

What about all these people who have previously committed crimes in the past and go on unpunished, look at the crimes that could be solved with some people moving from Country to Country... Remember it all starts with taking a €5 out of you mothers purse!

Tail Wagger · 14-04-2010 09:24PM

Horse_box wrote: »

Say if I got caught having a leak down an alley way at 4am because there is no public toilets in the area. This is breaking the law, a law nearly everyone has broken at some stage

Should I have to give finger prints if I were to get caught performing a basic bodily function because there is no public toilets?

This is always the point, especially in little old Ireland . You know your not allowed to pee in a public place and because you think it was only a pee you shouldn't get done. I'm sure there not going to haul you to a Garda station to finger print you { all you'll need is a tissue to get your wet finger prints) do you think you should get off without a fine, say €30?

LionelNashe · 14-04-2010 09:28PM

TheZohan wrote: »

Havent head of many people getting arrested for having a leak in public tbh.

I know two. A guy who was pissing in the middle of the Navan Rd outside Cabra Garda station, from what I heard. And a friend who got langered and separated from the group in London and was spotted by some cops and taken down the station 'til he sobered up.

I have an idea - People caught pissing in public should have their d*%ks photographed and entered into a database to see if they have been caught pissing before.

Overheal · 14-04-2010 09:30PM

Taking the public piss example: assume all your prints are on file. Its up to the Gardai to prove it was you. That means dusting for figerprints on an outside wall, exposed to the elements (ha!) on a surface that dozens of people come in contact with. Come on. You're getting yourselves wound up worrying about this. You can't be convicted purely because of a fingerprint match.

Also consider that its impossible to extract a fingerprint off most surfaces, like textiles, brick, etc.

lugha · 14-04-2010 09:52PM

TheZohan wrote: »

Havent head of many people getting arrested for having a leak in public tbh.

There was a chap in Dublin a few years back who was done for doing his business. As punishment he was made stand next to at ATM for a night with a placard explaining what a naughty boy he was.

I can't say I am terribly convinced by the potential abuse threat. If a police officer, or anyone in position of authority want to abuse their position and stitch someone up, they are already ample low tech ways to do so. If there was a national fingerprint database, what abuse could be perpetrated that couldn't be perpetrated now, possibly with a little more effort?

And even if something is compromised by having such a database, you have to consider if this is not more than balanced by the potential gains. The murderers of Sinead O'Neill and Phylis Murphy might never have been caught if the relevant authorities were inhibited by privacy concerns.

RMD · 14-04-2010 09:57PM

Horse_box wrote: »

Say if I got caught having a leak down an alley way at 4am because there is no public toilets in the area. This is breaking the law, a law nearly everyone has broken at some stage

Should I have to give finger prints if I were to get caught performing a basic bodily function because there is no public toilets?

How many people do you know have been put in cuffs and taken off to the station for a public piss? Personally, I know 0, all I know who have been caught in the act have had a slap on the wrist and a few choice words, that's it.

If it's bad enough that you must end up in the station, IMO you must have your fingerprints taken.

kuntboy · 14-04-2010 11:04PM

Not surprised most people on here think this is OK, because most Irish people are morons.

Gardaí want fingerprints taken in all arrests

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