Gardaí want fingerprints taken in all arrests

Prof.Badass · 14-04-2010 02:34PM

Bonito wrote: »

So you believe prints should only be taken in a caught red handed situation?

Sorry, i assumed the article was about them being entered into a long term database. After reading the article again, it's not clear, although i fear the worst.

If the guards could show how these prints could be of benifit to the specific case and if they were not allowed to use these prints for anything other than the specific case at hand, then yes, i wouldn't have a problem.

However, if these prints are going to be entered into a long term database and used in "fingerprint sweeps" for every crime committed in the country, then i would oppose this measure. To enter such a database you'd have to at least have a conviction.

robinph · 14-04-2010 02:37PM

My fingerprints and dna are mine, the powers that be have no right to know anything about them. If they suspect me of having done something naughty they they can come and ask if they can compare my fingerprints and dna to the evidence that they have to prove if I did that naughty thing or not, if I didn't then they have no reason to keep those details on record and they should be destroyed.

Fingerprints are a rubbish way of proving you are who you say you are if you've been arrested and taken to a station, much cheaper, quicker and simpler ways of proving who most people are.

MagicSean · 14-04-2010 02:39PM

robinph wrote: »

My fingerprints and dna are mine, the powers that be have no right to know anything about them. If they suspect me of having done something naughty they they can come and ask if they can compare my fingerprints and dna to the evidence that they have to prove if I did that naughty thing or not, if I didn't then they have no reason to keep those details on record and they should be destroyed.

Fingerprints are a rubbish way of proving you are who you say you are if you've been arrested and taken to a station, much cheaper, quicker and simpler ways of proving who most people are.

Like what?

MagicSean · 14-04-2010 02:40PM

hooradiation wrote: »

Don't be silly.

Also "getting of on a technicality" is a Hollywood myth. There is no such thing.

Yes there is. I've seen it plenty of times.

Sofa King Great · 14-04-2010 02:40PM

robinph wrote: »

much cheaper, quicker and simpler ways of proving who most people are.

Such as?

Edit: K Mac just before me!

Biggins · 14-04-2010 02:42PM

I have no problems with it what so ever.

All crimes starts somewhere. Be it climbing over a garden wall and breaking in, vandalising property, cars, etc or terrorising or fighting - if your stupid enough to warrant being hauled into a police station, you are asking to be documented - that included fingerprints.

If your starting out to be trouble - you might as well be kept an eye on.
Criminals all start out somewhere with some minor act(s). Why not have the Gardi gain an advantage for once?
Those that don't want the Gardi to have an advantage, I'd have to question "why?" and the motive behind that feeling in some cases!

* Maybe if you keep out of subsequent trouble, after ten years for example, your prints are destroyed from files?

Morlar · 14-04-2010 02:42PM

Sofa King Great wrote: »

Such as?

I am waiting on someone to say ESB Bill or xtravision card.

hooradiation · 14-04-2010 02:46PM

k_mac wrote: »

Yes there is. I've seen it plenty of times.

Go on then. Lets hear it.

Biggins wrote: »

Those that don't want the Gardi to have an advantage, I'd have to question "why?" and the motive behind that feeling in some cases!

Wow, that a new shitty low, even for you.

Wile E. Coyote · 14-04-2010 02:47PM

hooradiation wrote: »

Don't be silly.

Also "getting of on a technicality" is a Hollywood myth. There is no such thing.

Ok if not on a 'technicality' how about a lack of evidence?

3,000 cases weren't brought to court in 2007 because of it. Couldn't find anything more up to date.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0728/dpp.html

robinph · 14-04-2010 02:47PM

k_mac wrote: »

Like what?

AGS: Who are you?
Me: robinph.
AGS: Lets see some id?
Me: Here you go.

Overheal · 14-04-2010 02:47PM

People make it sound like an invasion of privacy in the same way as someone rooting through your trash, watching you shower, and inspecting what you buy at Tesco.

Its a Fingerprint. Mine have been on file in Washington State since the early 90s. Im sure that after that it was added to the Federal Grid. This has never been a problem. Mostly because I've never tried to murder anyone or burgle anything.

Morlar · 14-04-2010 02:49PM

hooradiation wrote: »

Go on then. Lets hear it.

Or let's not and say we did ?

Honestly you are trying to say there is no such thing as a person getting off on a technicality so maybe you prove your assertion rather than try to make everyone else prove the opposite of what you have claimed.

Either you are going to drag this thread down an alleyway over 'the definition of a technicality vs a loophole' or just otherwise bore us all to death. imo.

sam34 · 14-04-2010 02:49PM

robinph wrote: »

AGS: Who are you?
Me: robinph.
AGS: Lets see some id?
Me: Here you go.

right

cause people never forge ID

robinph · 14-04-2010 02:52PM

sam34 wrote: »

right

cause people never forge ID

I don't have any forged ID. What reason have they got to think that it might be forged?

hooradiation · 14-04-2010 02:52PM

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

Ok if not on a 'technicality' how about a lack of evidence?

3,000 cases weren't brought to court in 2007 because of it. Couldn't find anything more up to date.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0728/dpp.html

Still not "getting off on a technicality".
Like i said, it's a myth. It's something that's used in films as a way to have the protagonist has a reason to spend the next 90 minutes killing people without having the audience question the morality of what he's doing.

There are badly presented cases, cases where the evidence was shoddy and cases where people just didn't do their damn job. There has never been anyone exonerated because of a technicality.

General Zod · 14-04-2010 02:53PM

Slugs wrote: »

"**** the children"

You'd definitely get fingerprinted if you were arrested for that.

MagicSean · 14-04-2010 02:53PM

hooradiation wrote: »

Go on then. Lets hear it.

Wow, that a new shitty low, even for you.

Hear what? Just go to a court and watch some cases and you'll see technicalities being argued. People rarely get off because they are innocent.

robinph wrote: »

AGS: Who are you?
Me: robinph.
AGS: Lets see some id?
Me: Here you go.

And if someone doesn't have ID with them?

sam34 · 14-04-2010 02:54PM

robinph wrote: »

I don't have any forged ID. What reason have they got to think that it might be forged?

if someone was a criminal trying to conceal their real identity they might well have reason to have forged id

Wile E. Coyote · 14-04-2010 02:54PM

robinph wrote: »

AGS: Who are you?
Me: robinph.
AGS: Lets see some id?
Me: Here you go.

You'd be on here making a case for fingerprinting if they were to announce that they wanted everyone to carry ID at all times.

ArmaniJeanss · 14-04-2010 02:56PM

Biggins wrote: »

I'd have to question "why?" and the motive behind that feeling in some cases!

Eh, about 20 people have answered the 'why' in the thread already.
Because we don't see why the gardai should get to take fingerprints of people who are not subsequently charged with an offence (in other words people who leave the station without a stain on their character).

robinph · 14-04-2010 02:57PM

k_mac wrote: »

And if someone doesn't have ID with them?

But I do have ID with me, what reason have they got to take my fingerprints?

Sykk · 14-04-2010 02:57PM

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

people who leave the station without a stain on their character).

Skidmarks?

Wile E. Coyote · 14-04-2010 02:58PM

hooradiation wrote: »

Still not "getting off on a technicality".
Like i said, it's a myth. It's something that's used in films as a way to have the protagonist has a reason to spend the next 90 minutes killing people without having the audience question the morality of what he's doing.

There are badly presented cases, cases where the evidence was shoddy and cases where people just didn't do their damn job. There has never been anyone exonerated because of a technicality.

Did I quote a 'technicality' again or did I show figures for 'lack of evidence'?

Are you trying to say now that people don't get off due to lack of evidence?

ilovemybrick · 14-04-2010 03:00PM

Gaz wrote: »

I would go one further and get a DNA database of every person in the country ...

Only the guilty have something to hide.

Only the free have anything to lose.

Biggins · 14-04-2010 03:00PM

hooradiation wrote: »

Wow, that a new shitty low, even for you.

I won't expect any less of a comment from you towards me.
Go get that chip off your shoulder would you please about me!
ANY opportunity to have a go, you will.

Wile E. Coyote · 14-04-2010 03:01PM

robinph wrote: »

But I do have ID with me, what reason have they got to take my fingerprints?

Your really not getting the whole 'ID can be forged' bit are you?

MagicSean · 14-04-2010 03:02PM

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Eh, about 20 people have answered the 'why' in the thread already.
Because we don't see why the gardai should get to take fingerprints of people who are not subsequently charged with an offence (in other words people who leave the station without a stain on their character).

You still don't get it. Someone who is arrested and questioned but not charged can already have their fingerprints taken. Someone who is arrested to be charged straight away can't. The law is slightly backwards in this instance.

robinph wrote: »

But I do have ID with me, what reason have they got to take my fingerprints?

Maybe your i.d. is fake? Maybe it belongs to someone you look like? Maybe you are not the only person to get arrested and everyone else might not be so obliging to carry id when committing a crime.

Biggins · 14-04-2010 03:03PM

k_mac wrote: »

You still don't get it. Someone who is arrested and questioned but not charged can already have their fingerprints taken. Someone who is arrested to be charged straight away can't. The law is slightly backwards in this instance.

Maybe your i.d. is fake? Maybe it belongs to someone you look like? Maybe you are not the only person to get arrested and everyone else might not be so obliging to carry id when committing a crime.

Exactly. Well said. Some don't get that though.

ArmaniJeanss · 14-04-2010 03:03PM

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

Are you trying to say now that people don't get off due to lack of evidence?

People should be found not guilty or cases thrown out if there is 'lack of evidence'?

I don't see any circumstances where giving the guards tis new power would change any of these cases.

Prof.Badass · 14-04-2010 03:03PM

General Zod wrote: »

You'd definitely get fingerprinted if you were arrested for that.

Not if he's a priest :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:!!!

lololololol

amidoinitrite?

Gardaí want fingerprints taken in all arrests

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