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after the next general election....

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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Its just an opinion but its not really in the long run that FF needs to be changed but more so, civil transparencies that need to be undertaken, evoked, and subsequently maintained.

    Be it FF, FG, Labour or the local loony Muppet Fascist Gay and Lesbian Party branch or whatever that is trying to take control of the council, county and state - they all should be brought to adhere to a form of civil accountability.

    Presently what we have in existence is window-dressing. Pure window dressing.
    One simple example of this is the clocking in system now at the Dail. They have to clock in but don't have to clock out!!!
    Still this system alone was made public with big drama as if to say "look, we are doing something. We are responding to your demands!"
    - Rubbish -

    As long as the present form of jokeable accountability and in-transparency exists, no matter what party falls into the next government seats, they too will take advantage of the current accountability (or effective lack of one) situation and use the broken system to their best ability. Power indeed corrupts by its very nature.

    As for FF (I don't want to digress too much from the beaten track - I could but I won't), they will by hook or crook at the next election try to gain or retain as much power as possible at local levels as they have done since the foundation of the state.
    They don't do this alone. All the other parties will try similar ...and thus we have the far too many abuses of the system and the bad consequences that we, the taxpayer, are retroactively forking out for.

    If there is to be change in the long term - in the short term FIRSTLY, FF has to go.
    Secondly, the rule book about transparency in the way business, political parties, unions, banks and civil service departments to begin with - has to be thrown out the bloody window and re-written from scratch.
    Why?
    Because the present system of rules has that many twists and turns, added addendum's, convoluted inserted clauses that suit one more than another - that the whole present system is a sad Irish joke - and seen so internationally.
    ...And as a poster in the last few days has pointed out, even the Greeks in their unholy bigger mess, consider themselves lucky that "they are not Ireland!"

    Don't tell me that any one alternative fascist/socialist/democratic/loony org is going to bring about drastic changes upon one being kicked out and replaced by another alternative.

    Sure we can kick out the parties like a dose of playing a never-ending game of musical chairs - but until we, the people address the underlying problem and not the "stop-gaps", we are only fooling ourselves that a change of party will bring about all the answers to our countries needs.

    ...its just one mans opinion though and not necessarily correct.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,803 ✭✭✭El Siglo


    aDeener wrote: »
    just because they are minority does not mean they are automatically going to be targetted, who is going to target them on a large scale? jesus, comparing them to the jews is fcuking retarded

    Well, given in this hypothetical fascist coup, I'd imagine some group playing on the historical aspect of Protestants being associated with the landed class or some equally retarded conspiracy theory (just like what happened in Germany with "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and the "Jewish Conspiracy" etc...). And they would be targeted. Sure, Protestant schools managers have complained about the budget cuts to their schools on the basis that they're a minority etc... and that it was discrimination. So if some extremist, nationalist, fascist group did come into power, would it be impossible to see an extension of discrimination?
    And yes, because they're a minority, they would be automatically targeted by a fascist government. Seriously, have you not read anything by Gramsci or even what fascism entails? "A singular collective identity", of course every minority or indeed anyone who doesn't 'fit in' to the ascribed identity purported by such a government is going to be targeted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    El Siglo wrote: »
    Well, given in this hypothetical fascist coup, I'd imagine some group playing on the historical aspect of Protestants being associated with the landed class or some equally retarded conspiracy theory (just like what happened in Germany with "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and the "Jewish Conspiracy" etc...). And they would be targeted. Sure, Protestant schools managers have complained about the budget cuts to their schools on the basis that they're a minority etc... and that it was discrimination. So if some extremist, nationalist, fascist group did come into power, would it be impossible to see an extension of discrimination?
    And yes, because they're a minority, they would be automatically targeted by a fascist government. Seriously, have you not read anything by Gramsci or even what fascism entails? "A singular collective identity", of course every minority or indeed anyone who doesn't 'fit in' to the ascribed identity purported by such a government is going to be targeted.

    who are these fascists that could come into power? you said the protestants are our jews, is that not way over the top?
    just because the protestant schools claim it is discrimation does not make the decision discrimatory in nature


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,803 ✭✭✭El Siglo


    aDeener wrote: »
    who are these fascists that could come into power? you said the protestants are our jews, is that not way over the top?
    just because the protestant schools claim it is discrimation does not make the decision discrimatory in nature

    Well considering we're playing on bullshit religions now, I'd say it would a mixture of groups in an umbrella organisation. Few parties like this, probably the "Irish National Party" (they had a website but it was shut down apparently) and this mixed in with Fine Gael or some main stream party that has has a right-wing economic policy and possibly a pro-corporationist view of a state.
    Honestly it could be any mixture of parties, with the usual ingredients indicative of Irish fascist thought would remain; Catholic and nationalist.
    I was actually joking comparing Protestants to Jews, but in fairness this country was under the thumb of the Catholic church for so long, and sectarianism wasn't so restricted to the North. And as a comparison of population in scale, it's apt. Obviously, not in terms of discrimination (I don't think DeV et al. threw them into concentration camps).
    The point I was making is that, if some fascist group did get into power, it wouldn't be a far flung stretch of the imagination to think that Protestants along with other minorities would become targets.
    It doesn't mean a decision was discriminatory but it's still discrimination. Think of the traveller wedding. We all hear the stories of hotels and pubs coming along and refusing to host a traveller wedding because they're afraid of a fight starting etc... This is a decision based on the potential event of a fight, but not on the hatred of a culture or people. However, it's still seen and it would be argued in court as being discriminatory.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    1.they believe fianna fail to be the only true irish party, dev and all that :rolleyes:
    2.fine gael are the blueshirts and thus voting for them is anti-irish, labour are a bunch of commie socialists
    3.the others would do a worse job, all the others do is moan and complain
    4.ah sure its not fianna fail/haugheys, berties fault :mad:
    5.i have voted fianna fail all my life, my parents voted fianna fail, not going to change now
    The above might be true for the tiny minority of hardcore FF voters, but at the end of the day, its the parish pump that is responsible.

    Here's how it works - A TD does the small favours for big families, fixes the fences, sees that the potholes are filled in and that our Johnny gets off his parking ticket. After that it doesn't matter if he's with FF, FG, Labour, or whoever, the local constituency will still vote for him.

    "He's been good for our area" is the poison that is dragging the country down. Most people who vote FF wouldn't know a FF policy from a hole in the wall, and FF know it well. Most people vote for the TD that did them the most favours, and is known in the area as such.

    This is why national FF policies are apparently random and based on the squeakiest wheel getting the grease principle, leaving us with a monster deficit and bank bailouts from the pension fund - they genuinely don't really care, because they know what it takes to get re-elected, and thats to appease the parish pump.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    El Siglo wrote: »
    Travellers and Protestants have been a minority in Ireland for a long time, so if some Fascist group did come to power, next to non-nationals and immigrants, these groups would be targeted as well.

    To be fair if a party ran on a manifesto of "getting rid of" travelers and other 'scum' then most of AH would sprout a tent worthy of the Galway races.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭Dohnny Jepp


    The only thing i dislike more than FF is FG :P


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    what are the chances that Fianna Fail will disassemble and cease to be?

    what are the chances of a new political party being established to fill the void?


    Without a new party, there is no chance that Fianna Fail will cease to be.
    People will still say "Ah, sure they're all the same.....they'll promise you the World until they're elected.."

    Meanwhile, many of them will invite TDs/Councillers from every party in "For a cup of Tea", and extract promises of favours from all of them!:D Then vote for whoever they were going to vote for in the first place........

    The majority will vote for whoever "fixed the road, sorted out "them blo*dy forms" yada, yada.......

    If a new party were formed - Well, it would probably generate a lot of discussion, some of the disenchanted would "vote for change" and the "Cute Hoors" would decide to "Wait and see what they're made of, first......" :D:D:D

    Looks like we're not going to see Fianna Fail disappear yet - more's the pity...

    Noreen


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    orourkeda wrote: »
    And have another PD Party? I don't think so.

    There's more chance of them winning the next election than going out of business so to speak

    Er, you do realise you just wrecked my chances of a good nights sleep?:D:D
    I'll have nightmares all night now!:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭bonerm


    The only thing i dislike more than FF is FG :P

    Really? I dislike them both about the same. Have to admit the facist state idea does grow more appealing with each passing year. If a facist state does require some group to focus persecution upon then perhaps we could use FF/FG members as the target? That way there'd be no innocent victims.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭goat2


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    you are kidding right

    fianna fail will win next election, 90% of their supporters won't change sides because

    1.they believe fianna fail to be the only true irish party, dev and all that :rolleyes:
    2.fine gael are the blueshirts and thus voting for them is anti-irish, labour are a bunch of commie socialists
    3.the others would do a worse job, all the others do is moan and complain
    4.ah sure its not fianna fail/haugheys, berties fault :mad:
    5.i have voted fianna fail all my life, my parents voted fianna fail, not going to change now

    ask a fianna fail supporter 40 or over why they vote the way they do and i guarantee at least 1 of these will crop up

    5 is the answer i heard at the last election, which means these people are not single minded, or dont have a mind


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,589 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    Here's how it works - A TD does the small favours for big families, fixes the fences, sees that the potholes are filled in and that our Johnny gets off his parking ticket. After that it doesn't matter if he's with FF, FG, Labour, or whoever, the local constituency will still vote for him.

    "He's been good for our area" is the poison that is dragging the country down. Most people who vote FF wouldn't know a FF policy from a hole in the wall, and FF know it well. Most people vote for the TD that did them the most favours, and is known in the area as such.

    This is why national FF policies are apparently random and based on the squeakiest wheel getting the grease principle, leaving us with a monster deficit and bank bailouts from the pension fund - they genuinely don't really care, because they know what it takes to get re-elected, and thats to appease the parish pump.
    FF are populist, they will promise anything to anyone in order to get elected.

    Problem is people with short memories believe them.



    An old trick my mum told me was a politician would have a deal with the local postman. If a letter with a harp appeared the postman was to tell the politician who it was addressed to and to delay delivery for a few days. In the meantime the politician would happen to meet the addressee and no doubt the topic would turn to something or other and the politician would look into it but wouldn't promise anything.
    And low and behold a few days later a letter would arrive.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,701 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    ff own the country they will win or nearely win the next election


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 290 ✭✭alias141282


    I think its possible they could get back in.

    It would be a national tragedy and I would seriously consider emigrating, but it could happen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    FF are populist, they will promise anything to anyone in order to get elected.
    True enough. The problem with FF isn't so much the promises they make before the election, its the promises they make to anyone who shouts loudly enough or pays enough after the election.

    To be honest they barely exist as a political party at all in terms of having a direction for the country in mind, they are more the union for people who desperately want to get re-elected, and don't care beyond that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    Personally, I'd love to see a new party emerge. I don't believe Public disenchantment with the political process will ever be alleviated, otherwise.

    Whether such a party could gain sufficient votes is the question?
    The last local elections proved that a lot of traditional FF voters have "changed their coat". There is an opportunity here. But the Party policy, and the candidates would have to be able to appeal sufficiently to the traditional FF grassroots, as well as other potential supporters, and also be honest and realistic about what is required for "Recovery". That's a pretty tough call!:eek:



    Noreen


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14 great_pretender


    bear in mind what our children's children will have to cough up for in years to come, as a result of our present government's economic policy

    http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

    and they can still be accepted as a legitimate political party after all this?

    They have driven this country into the ground


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    bear in mind what our children's children will have to cough up for in years to come, as a result of our present government's economic policy

    http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

    and they can still be accepted as a legitimate political party after all this?

    They have driven this country into the ground

    They never had an economic policy. They had a "Let's get re-elected" policy - and it worked :mad::mad:

    Even worse - assuming they're not re-elected, any party that makes a serious attempt to alleviate our debt, will be penalised in the following election, and that pattern may will continue.
    We could end up with Political instability for years........

    Hmmm....... Maybe change the thread title to read " How should we disband the FF party, and make sure they never, ever re-form?.....

    Seriously, I wish we could put the leaders of said "Party" in jail.

    Noreen


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    "Alot Done, More to Do"

    That slogan from their last campaign should of been a clue...


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