after the next general election....

great_pretender

what are the chances that Fianna Fail will disassemble and cease to be?

what are the chances of a new political party being established to fill the void?

kraggy

Disassemble? Cease to be?

Fianna Fáil will get 25% of the vote in the next election, if not more.

No sign of them going anywhere.

biko

The chances are slim

PeterIanStaker

While I'd like them to go the way of the Irish Parlimentary Party, its extremely unlikely that they'll cease to exist. Which is unfortunate.

bazmaiden

dont think so,

they will probably just call themselves the "moving forward party" from now on

Biggins

great_pretender wrote: »

what are the chances that Fianna Fail will disassemble and cease to be?

what are the chances of a new political party being established to fill the void?

As Biko said, slim, very slim.
FF in particular are ruthless when it comes to stomping out any upcoming possible threats.

bonerm

great_pretender wrote: »

what are the chances that Fianna Fail will disassemble and cease to be?

What are the chances of turkeys voting for Xmas?

Biggins

bonerm wrote: »

What are the chances of turkeys voting for Xmas?

Dunno - but turkey's vote for Fianna Fail!
..So there might still be hope yet!

bonerm

It took plenty of gunfire to form them. I'd imagine it'll take plenty more to get rid of them.

El Siglo

Not a chance, Fianna Fáil are like the Catholic Church - everyone hates them now but will still turn to them when it suits. I detest Fianna Fáil but there's enough fucking idiots in this country that will vote for them.

PeterIanStaker

El Siglo wrote: »

Not a chance, Fianna Fáil are like the Catholic Church - everyone hates them now but will still turn to them when it suits. I detest Fianna Fáil but there's enough fucking idiots in this country that will vote for them.

As the song says, Sad but True.

25% is obviously 25% too much, but never underestimate stupidity, and also remember that the weak minded can be very stubborn.

rossie1977

you are kidding right

fianna fail will win next election, 90% of their supporters won't change sides because

1.they believe fianna fail to be the only true irish party, dev and all that :rolleyes:
2.fine gael are the blueshirts and thus voting for them is anti-irish, labour are a bunch of commie socialists
3.the others would do a worse job, all the others do is moan and complain
4.ah sure its not fianna fail/haugheys, berties fault :mad:
5.i have voted fianna fail all my life, my parents voted fianna fail, not going to change now

ask a fianna fail supporter 40 or over why they vote the way they do and i guarantee at least 1 of these will crop up

PeterIanStaker

rossie1977 wrote: »

1.they believe fianna fail to be the only true irish party, dev and all that :rolleyes:
2.fine gael are the blueshirts and thus voting for them is anti-irish, labour are a bunch of commie socialists
3.the others would do a worse job, all the others do is moan and complain
4.ah sure its not fianna fail/haugheys, berties fault :mad:
5.i have voted fianna fail all my life, my parents voted fianna fail, not going to change now

5 reasons why my above post is valid. Thanks:D

problemchimp

rossie1977 wrote: »

you are kidding right

fianna fail will win next election, 90% of their supporters won't change sides because

1.they believe fianna fail to be the only true irish party, dev and all that :rolleyes:
2.fine gael are the blueshirts and thus voting for them is anti-irish, labour are a bunch of commie socialists
3.the others would do a worse job, all the others do is moan and complain
4.ah sure its not fianna fail/haugheys, berties fault :mad:
5.i have voted fianna fail all my life, my parents voted fianna fail, not going to change now

ask a fianna fail supporter 40 or over why they vote the way they do and i guarantee at least 1 of these will crop up

Very sad but very true.

great_pretender

I think that public opinion is very much anti FF now.. they have the knack of breaking the bad news after the election, but with our new financial regulator in place... and doing his job by the looks of it, there is no way FF can keep any of his actions and recommendations out of the headlines... it will be impossible for them to put a positive spin on things....

and if what happened last week in Ennis at the TUI rally is anything to gauge FF's popularity by, then I think the 25% of supporters they say they have, were sitting very tight mouthed in the audience of 400+ who were in attendance...

25% of the vote? I beg to differ

If there was ever a time for a new political party with a fresh manifesto, it is now

orourkeda

great_pretender wrote: »

what are the chances that Fianna Fail will disassemble and cease to be?

what are the chances of a new political party being established to fill the void?

And have another PD Party? I don't think so.

There's more chance of them winning the next election than going out of business so to speak

Biggins

What I have noticed is that FF folk are now trying to run themselves as independents now while FF are getting such a bad name.
So at the next election, watch out. Many will try to pull the wool over the eyes of the public yet again.
And once there is a chance that the FF org can gain a foothold again, the sudden "independents" (but once FF) will be back to them in a flash.

For example, there is one well known character in Co Louth that ran some time back for a local council position. He (and his other half) was and is FF true and true, but prior to his putting his name forwards for selection by the public, he was suddenly an independent.
I know this person very well and I have no doubts - whatsoever - that if tomorrow FF was in favour again, he would switch alliance faster than a pope could smuggle Bishop Casey out of Ireland again.

El Siglo

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

As the song says, Sad but True.

25% is obviously 25% too much, but never underestimate stupidity, and also remember that the weak minded can be very stubborn.

And also easily manipulated, as put forward by this idea and practiced by this chap.

paddyland

If de Valera was still around, what would he do?

He'd do what he did before, simply walk away from Fianna Fáil, and start a new party.

And screw the country all over again.

rossie1977

great_pretender wrote: »

If there was ever a time for a new political party with a fresh manifesto, it is now

adding another centre left party into a sea of centre left parties isn't going to change anything

RMD

I'd quite like to see a party with balls appear and take control of this country, because right now the vast majority of politicians in the Dail are a pack of idiots without the balls to do something about this country and the mess it's in.

Bring in Fascism I say.

corkcomp

El Siglo wrote: »

Not a chance, Fianna Fáil are like the Catholic Church - everyone hates them now but will still turn to them when it suits. I detest Fianna Fáil but there's enough fucking idiots in this country that will vote for them.

my thoughs exactly .. I wouldnt be a bit surprised if they managed to get voted in again along with some small party dumb enough to enter a coalition + some independants..

galwayrush

paddyland wrote: »

If de Valera was still around, what would he do?

He'd do what he did before, simply walk away from Fianna Fáil, and start a new party.

And screw the country all over again.

The Church would also have total controll over him, like they had when he was around.

El Siglo

If you want FF out, you have to have a revolution. They're too well established to be voted out. Sounds mad but like everything else that's wrong with this country, changing the systems in place is required.

galwayrush

El Siglo wrote: »

If you want FF out, you have to have a revolution. They're too well established to be voted out. Sounds mad but like everything else that's wrong with this country, changing the systems in place is required.

I blame inbreeding.:pac:

rossie1977

RMD wrote: »

Bring in Fascism I say.

fascism would never work in this country

for one we as a people are just not patriotic enough, second we don't have any identifiable enemies as such, no jews, no commies, no arabs, no catalyans and our military is too weak to implement any type of fascism

El Siglo

rossie1977 wrote: »

fascism would never work in this country

Certainly not...:rolleyes:

rossie wrote:

for one we as a people are just not patriotic enough,

We're not in the traditional DeValera sense anymore.

rossie wrote:

second we don't have any identifiable enemies as such, no jews, no commies, no arabs, no catalyans

You've forgotten this group and this group... they're kind of like our 'Jews'...;)

rossie wrote:

and our military is too weak to implement any type of fascism

So was this military until uncle Adolf came along.

aDeener

El Siglo wrote: »

Certainly not...:rolleyes:



We're not in the traditional DeValera sense anymore.



You've forgotten this group and this group... they're kind of like our 'Jews'...



So was this military until uncle Adolf came along.

thats some serious bull right there, especially the latter

galwayrush

:pac:

El Siglo wrote: »

[

So was this military until uncle Adolf came along.

If Hitler was Irish, he would have had to emigrate.:pac:

El Siglo

aDeener wrote: »

thats some serious bull right there, especially the latter

How is it bull?
RC supported the blueshirts and generally speaking they're pretty fascist in their outlook.
The Wehrmacht was originally weak prior to Hitler coming into power, that's probably one of the main reasons why a load of staff officers supported the Nazis in the first place.
Travellers and Protestants have been a minority in Ireland for a long time, so if some Fascist group did come to power, next to non-nationals and immigrants, these groups would be targeted as well.

aDeener

El Siglo wrote: »

How is it bull?
RC supported the blueshirts and generally speaking they're pretty fascist in their outlook.
The Wehrmacht was originally weak prior to Hitler coming into power, that's probably one of the main reasons why a load of staff officers supported the Nazis in the first place.
Travellers and Protestants have been a minority in Ireland for a long time, so if some Fascist group did come to power, next to non-nationals and immigrants, these groups would be targeted as well.

just because they are minority does not mean they are automatically going to be targetted, who is going to target them on a large scale? jesus, comparing them to the jews is fcuking retarded

Biggins

Its just an opinion but its not really in the long run that FF needs to be changed but more so, civil transparencies that need to be undertaken, evoked, and subsequently maintained.

Be it FF, FG, Labour or the local loony Muppet Fascist Gay and Lesbian Party branch or whatever that is trying to take control of the council, county and state - they all should be brought to adhere to a form of civil accountability.

Presently what we have in existence is window-dressing. Pure window dressing.
One simple example of this is the clocking in system now at the Dail. They have to clock in but don't have to clock out!!!
Still this system alone was made public with big drama as if to say "look, we are doing something. We are responding to your demands!"
- Rubbish -

As long as the present form of jokeable accountability and in-transparency exists, no matter what party falls into the next government seats, they too will take advantage of the current accountability (or effective lack of one) situation and use the broken system to their best ability. Power indeed corrupts by its very nature.

As for FF (I don't want to digress too much from the beaten track - I could but I won't), they will by hook or crook at the next election try to gain or retain as much power as possible at local levels as they have done since the foundation of the state.
They don't do this alone. All the other parties will try similar ...and thus we have the far too many abuses of the system and the bad consequences that we, the taxpayer, are retroactively forking out for.

If there is to be change in the long term - in the short term FIRSTLY, FF has to go.
Secondly, the rule book about transparency in the way business, political parties, unions, banks and civil service departments to begin with - has to be thrown out the bloody window and re-written from scratch.
Why?
Because the present system of rules has that many twists and turns, added addendum's, convoluted inserted clauses that suit one more than another - that the whole present system is a sad Irish joke - and seen so internationally.
...And as a poster in the last few days has pointed out, even the Greeks in their unholy bigger mess, consider themselves lucky that "they are not Ireland!"

Don't tell me that any one alternative fascist/socialist/democratic/loony org is going to bring about drastic changes upon one being kicked out and replaced by another alternative.

Sure we can kick out the parties like a dose of playing a never-ending game of musical chairs - but until we, the people address the underlying problem and not the "stop-gaps", we are only fooling ourselves that a change of party will bring about all the answers to our countries needs.

...its just one mans opinion though and not necessarily correct.

El Siglo

aDeener wrote: »

just because they are minority does not mean they are automatically going to be targetted, who is going to target them on a large scale? jesus, comparing them to the jews is fcuking retarded

Well, given in this hypothetical fascist coup, I'd imagine some group playing on the historical aspect of Protestants being associated with the landed class or some equally retarded conspiracy theory (just like what happened in Germany with "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and the "Jewish Conspiracy" etc...). And they would be targeted. Sure, Protestant schools managers have complained about the budget cuts to their schools on the basis that they're a minority etc... and that it was discrimination. So if some extremist, nationalist, fascist group did come into power, would it be impossible to see an extension of discrimination?
And yes, because they're a minority, they would be automatically targeted by a fascist government. Seriously, have you not read anything by Gramsci or even what fascism entails? "A singular collective identity", of course every minority or indeed anyone who doesn't 'fit in' to the ascribed identity purported by such a government is going to be targeted.

aDeener

El Siglo wrote: »

Well, given in this hypothetical fascist coup, I'd imagine some group playing on the historical aspect of Protestants being associated with the landed class or some equally retarded conspiracy theory (just like what happened in Germany with "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and the "Jewish Conspiracy" etc...). And they would be targeted. Sure, Protestant schools managers have complained about the budget cuts to their schools on the basis that they're a minority etc... and that it was discrimination. So if some extremist, nationalist, fascist group did come into power, would it be impossible to see an extension of discrimination?
And yes, because they're a minority, they would be automatically targeted by a fascist government. Seriously, have you not read anything by Gramsci or even what fascism entails? "A singular collective identity", of course every minority or indeed anyone who doesn't 'fit in' to the ascribed identity purported by such a government is going to be targeted.

who are these fascists that could come into power? you said the protestants are our jews, is that not way over the top?
just because the protestant schools claim it is discrimation does not make the decision discrimatory in nature

El Siglo

aDeener wrote: »

who are these fascists that could come into power? you said the protestants are our jews, is that not way over the top?
just because the protestant schools claim it is discrimation does not make the decision discrimatory in nature

Well considering we're playing on bullshit religions now, I'd say it would a mixture of groups in an umbrella organisation. Few parties like this, probably the "Irish National Party" (they had a website but it was shut down apparently) and this mixed in with Fine Gael or some main stream party that has has a right-wing economic policy and possibly a pro-corporationist view of a state.
Honestly it could be any mixture of parties, with the usual ingredients indicative of Irish fascist thought would remain; Catholic and nationalist.
I was actually joking comparing Protestants to Jews, but in fairness this country was under the thumb of the Catholic church for so long, and sectarianism wasn't so restricted to the North. And as a comparison of population in scale, it's apt. Obviously, not in terms of discrimination (I don't think DeV et al. threw them into concentration camps).
The point I was making is that, if some fascist group did get into power, it wouldn't be a far flung stretch of the imagination to think that Protestants along with other minorities would become targets.
It doesn't mean a decision was discriminatory but it's still discrimination. Think of the traveller wedding. We all hear the stories of hotels and pubs coming along and refusing to host a traveller wedding because they're afraid of a fight starting etc... This is a decision based on the potential event of a fight, but not on the hatred of a culture or people. However, it's still seen and it would be argued in court as being discriminatory.

Amhran Nua

rossie1977 wrote: »

1.they believe fianna fail to be the only true irish party, dev and all that :rolleyes:
2.fine gael are the blueshirts and thus voting for them is anti-irish, labour are a bunch of commie socialists
3.the others would do a worse job, all the others do is moan and complain
4.ah sure its not fianna fail/haugheys, berties fault :mad:
5.i have voted fianna fail all my life, my parents voted fianna fail, not going to change now

The above might be true for the tiny minority of hardcore FF voters, but at the end of the day, its the parish pump that is responsible.

Here's how it works - A TD does the small favours for big families, fixes the fences, sees that the potholes are filled in and that our Johnny gets off his parking ticket. After that it doesn't matter if he's with FF, FG, Labour, or whoever, the local constituency will still vote for him.

"He's been good for our area" is the poison that is dragging the country down. Most people who vote FF wouldn't know a FF policy from a hole in the wall, and FF know it well. Most people vote for the TD that did them the most favours, and is known in the area as such.

This is why national FF policies are apparently random and based on the squeakiest wheel getting the grease principle, leaving us with a monster deficit and bank bailouts from the pension fund - they genuinely don't really care, because they know what it takes to get re-elected, and thats to appease the parish pump.

hooradiation

El Siglo wrote: »

Travellers and Protestants have been a minority in Ireland for a long time, so if some Fascist group did come to power, next to non-nationals and immigrants, these groups would be targeted as well.

To be fair if a party ran on a manifesto of "getting rid of" travelers and other 'scum' then most of AH would sprout a tent worthy of the Galway races.

Dohnny Jepp

The only thing i dislike more than FF is FG :P

Noreen1

great_pretender wrote: »

what are the chances that Fianna Fail will disassemble and cease to be?

what are the chances of a new political party being established to fill the void?

Without a new party, there is no chance that Fianna Fail will cease to be.
People will still say "Ah, sure they're all the same.....they'll promise you the World until they're elected.."

Meanwhile, many of them will invite TDs/Councillers from every party in "For a cup of Tea", and extract promises of favours from all of them!:D Then vote for whoever they were going to vote for in the first place........

The majority will vote for whoever "fixed the road, sorted out "them blo*dy forms" yada, yada.......

If a new party were formed - Well, it would probably generate a lot of discussion, some of the disenchanted would "vote for change" and the "Cute Hoors" would decide to "Wait and see what they're made of, first......" :D:D

Looks like we're not going to see Fianna Fail disappear yet - more's the pity...

Noreen

Noreen1

orourkeda wrote: »

And have another PD Party? I don't think so.

There's more chance of them winning the next election than going out of business so to speak

Er, you do realise you just wrecked my chances of a good nights sleep?:D:D
I'll have nightmares all night now!:D

bonerm

Dohnny Jepp wrote: »

The only thing i dislike more than FF is FG :P

Really? I dislike them both about the same. Have to admit the facist state idea does grow more appealing with each passing year. If a facist state does require some group to focus persecution upon then perhaps we could use FF/FG members as the target? That way there'd be no innocent victims.

goat2

rossie1977 wrote: »

you are kidding right

fianna fail will win next election, 90% of their supporters won't change sides because

1.they believe fianna fail to be the only true irish party, dev and all that :rolleyes:
2.fine gael are the blueshirts and thus voting for them is anti-irish, labour are a bunch of commie socialists
3.the others would do a worse job, all the others do is moan and complain
4.ah sure its not fianna fail/haugheys, berties fault :mad:
5.i have voted fianna fail all my life, my parents voted fianna fail, not going to change now

ask a fianna fail supporter 40 or over why they vote the way they do and i guarantee at least 1 of these will crop up

5 is the answer i heard at the last election, which means these people are not single minded, or dont have a mind

Capt'n Midnight

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Here's how it works - A TD does the small favours for big families, fixes the fences, sees that the potholes are filled in and that our Johnny gets off his parking ticket. After that it doesn't matter if he's with FF, FG, Labour, or whoever, the local constituency will still vote for him.

"He's been good for our area" is the poison that is dragging the country down. Most people who vote FF wouldn't know a FF policy from a hole in the wall, and FF know it well. Most people vote for the TD that did them the most favours, and is known in the area as such.

This is why national FF policies are apparently random and based on the squeakiest wheel getting the grease principle, leaving us with a monster deficit and bank bailouts from the pension fund - they genuinely don't really care, because they know what it takes to get re-elected, and thats to appease the parish pump.

FF are populist, they will promise anything to anyone in order to get elected.

Problem is people with short memories believe them.



An old trick my mum told me was a politician would have a deal with the local postman. If a letter with a harp appeared the postman was to tell the politician who it was addressed to and to delay delivery for a few days. In the meantime the politician would happen to meet the addressee and no doubt the topic would turn to something or other and the politician would look into it but wouldn't promise anything.
And low and behold a few days later a letter would arrive.

Tigger

ff own the country they will win or nearely win the next election

alias141282

I think its possible they could get back in.

It would be a national tragedy and I would seriously consider emigrating, but it could happen.

Amhran Nua

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

FF are populist, they will promise anything to anyone in order to get elected.

True enough. The problem with FF isn't so much the promises they make before the election, its the promises they make to anyone who shouts loudly enough or pays enough after the election.

To be honest they barely exist as a political party at all in terms of having a direction for the country in mind, they are more the union for people who desperately want to get re-elected, and don't care beyond that.

Noreen1

Personally, I'd love to see a new party emerge. I don't believe Public disenchantment with the political process will ever be alleviated, otherwise.

Whether such a party could gain sufficient votes is the question?
The last local elections proved that a lot of traditional FF voters have "changed their coat". There is an opportunity here. But the Party policy, and the candidates would have to be able to appeal sufficiently to the traditional FF grassroots, as well as other potential supporters, and also be honest and realistic about what is required for "Recovery". That's a pretty tough call!:eek:



Noreen

great_pretender

bear in mind what our children's children will have to cough up for in years to come, as a result of our present government's economic policy

http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

and they can still be accepted as a legitimate political party after all this?

They have driven this country into the ground

Noreen1

great_pretender wrote: »

bear in mind what our children's children will have to cough up for in years to come, as a result of our present government's economic policy

http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

and they can still be accepted as a legitimate political party after all this?

They have driven this country into the ground

They never had an economic policy. They had a "Let's get re-elected" policy - and it worked :mad::mad:

Even worse - assuming they're not re-elected, any party that makes a serious attempt to alleviate our debt, will be penalised in the following election, and that pattern may will continue.
We could end up with Political instability for years........

Hmmm....... Maybe change the thread title to read " How should we disband the FF party, and make sure they never, ever re-form?.....

Seriously, I wish we could put the leaders of said "Party" in jail.

Noreen

Dravokivich

"Alot Done, More to Do"

That slogan from their last campaign should of been a clue...