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Anglo to put €700m into Quinn

13

Comments

  • #62
    maninasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,635 ✭✭✭maninasia


    jimmysull wrote: »
    Read my post again, I never called it a "small" mistake. It was a huge mistake, not arguing with you there but it is in contrast to what have been a lot of good decisions over nearly 50 years. you don't grow a multibillion business from nothing if you make bad decisions all the time

    Right he had some business acumen but his business investments seemed to be dependent on one way bets mostly. He should have diversified out of Ireland or English speaking countries...same mistake they all made.

    I'm wondering why the massive bet on Anglo. Did he think he had some inside info, that he could make a killing? Did he want the investment in Anglo to get access to soft credit for his other businesses (he must have had a bad need for credit to expand as quickly as he did). Did he get suckered in by easy money during the Celtic Tiger, but even if he did, why 25%

    What was the angle for such a foolish bet?


  • #63
    oceanclub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Lemlin wrote: »
    Yes, the jobs will move to somewhere like India, where Hibernian have all their call centres.

    It costs the government 20,000 per person on the dole they reckon. If Quinn Group goes that 5,500 people at 20,000 a year = 110,000,000.
    That's why something needs to be done to save the jobs.

    So in order to save €110 million(*), we're paying €700 million?

    Can you run through the maths of that one again?

    P.

    (*) And this is the based on the assumption that not one of the people laid off will not be employed anywhere else, despite the obvious fact that there will be bigger market for insurers.


  • #64
    jmayo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,224 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Another twist in the tale of the Quinn group saga.

    Interesting times. I wonder whats really going on there. Effectively another nationalised company, one wonders where it will end.

    Can we get the thread titke changed to read ?

    Anglo to put €700 million of taxpayers money into enterprises that owe them billions already.


    By getting Anglo to invest the money it is effectively saying that the Irish taxpayers are now funding the quinn group i.e. bailout.

    Who's next, who is going to be the next connect individual who is going to be bailed out by Anglo ?
    maninasia wrote: »
    Right he had some business acumen but his business investments seemed to be dependent on one way bets mostly. He should have diversified out of Ireland or English speaking countries...same mistake they all made.

    I'm wondering why the massive bet on Anglo. Did he think he had some inside info, that he could make a killing? Did he want the investment in Anglo to get access to soft credit for his other businesses (he must have had a bad need for credit to expand as quickly as he did). Did he get suckered in by easy money during the Celtic Tiger, but even if he did, why 25%

    What was the angle for such a foolish bet?

    I think he might have copped on to how the Icelandic rich boys were buying tup banks to use them as their private funds to buy the world.
    Funny their banks ended in disaster as well.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • #65
    Lemlin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,256 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    oceanclub wrote: »
    So in order to save €110 million(*), we're paying €700 million?

    Can you run through the maths of that one again?

    P.

    (*) And this is the based on the assumption that not one of the people laid off will not be employed anywhere else, despite the obvious fact that there will be bigger market for insurers.

    The maths of it is that we are looking at 110 million per year, not just a once off figure of 110 million.

    As for us assuming that the majority of the workers will not be employed elsewhere, there's a 14% unemployment rate at the minute for a reason. And that unemployment rate doesn't look like improving anytime soon - there are very few jobs out there.

    There will be bigger market for insurers alright. Bigger market for insurers like Aviva who have their staff in India. There'll also be a better market for them to push up their prices.

    As well as that, there's the loss to the border areas. One placard being held up at the rally on Tuesday stated "100 Longford engineers rely on the Quinn group". There were also various other companies there who have all said they will be under threat or will have jobs under threat if the economic activity Quinn provides to the region goes.

    I understand your point about 700 million to save 5500 jobs but how many jobs did putting 22 billion into Anglo save??
    Anglo want Quinn Insurance because its a company making profit, despite the solvency problems. It's a company that is making 20 million to 30 million a month. Therefore Anglo know they won't be long getting their 700 million back.


  • #66
    Bugnug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 602 ✭✭✭Bugnug


    IveSeenFire wrote: »
    It was my understanding that Quinn brought down Anglo when he decided to sell a huge amount of shares at once thus devaluing Anglo shares and causing instant collapse.

    Jimmy

    Quinn is not a victim of fradulent behaviour by Anglo, get a grip, he is one of the architects of the whole catastrophy and whats worse if this tidy little set up didn;t come crashing down around them due to the economic collapse they would all be still at it Quinn included. This guy is a as guilty as Fitzpatrick Drum and all of the other cronies.


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  • #67
    oceanclub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Lemlin wrote: »
    The maths of it is that we are looking at 110 million per year, not just a once off figure of 110 million.

    So not one of these 5,000 people will manage to get a job in the next seven years?

    And why just the Quinn group? Why should the state not stump up €140,000 to save the job of every other worker who's been laid of?

    And the figure looks like it will be more than merely €140,000; according to the irisheconomy.ie blog, it could be an astonshing €354,000 per worker:
    1.9 bn is what is being proposed as the payment for a part-share in the Quinn group with those gamblers and now, it appears, extortionists (or should that be contortionists?) the Quinn Gang.

    1.2 bn to pay off other banks and the bondholders and 700 mn to make it a solvent company again.

    And all to save Anglo 2.8 bn it has already burned. Or indeed, not to save it. Just to avoid a balance sheet incident.

    This is the same pointless waste of real money for imaginary gain that the subordinate debt buyback was. The intangible in pursuit of the unaccountable…

    As for the smokescreen of the 5,000 jobs, 1.9 bn is 345,000 per job… Given that some of the jobs are in Northern Ireland, why are we doing all the stumping up? Marian Harkin on Primetime said that 11 mn sterling and 7 mn euro paid in taxes each year by employees. If she is right with those figures (which I doubt) that’s an average of abut 3,500 euro per job… hardly the high value jobs that are being claimed…

    P.


  • #68
    jmayo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,224 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Lemlin wrote: »
    The maths of it is that we are looking at 110 million per year, not just a once off figure of 110 million.

    As for us assuming that the majority of the workers will not be employed elsewhere, there's a 14% unemployment rate at the minute for a reason. And that unemployment rate doesn't look like improving anytime soon - there are very few jobs out there.

    There will be bigger market for insurers alright. Bigger market for insurers like Aviva who have their staff in India. There'll also be a better market for them to push up their prices.

    As well as that, there's the loss to the border areas. One placard being held up at the rally on Tuesday stated "100 Longford engineers rely on the Quinn group". There were also various other companies there who have all said they will be under threat or will have jobs under threat if the economic activity Quinn provides to the region goes.

    I understand your point about 700 million to save 5500 jobs but how many jobs did putting 22 billion into Anglo save??
    Anglo want Quinn Insurance because its a company making profit, despite the solvency problems. It's a company that is making 20 million to 30 million a month. Therefore Anglo know they won't be long getting their 700 million back.

    There is one big fly in the ointment and that is a lot of the quinn group jobs are unsustainable.
    These companies are I bet loosing money already.

    There is a hugely decreased market for some of the primary products produced by the big companies in the quinn group.
    Then add in how many people in the quinn group work in hospitality industry i.e. the pubs and hotels.

    People are deluding themselves if they think that the quinn group can be saved with no major loss of jobs.

    As for quinn insurance I reckon there is no way most punters will trust them if the quinn family is anyway involved.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • #69
    Lemlin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,256 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    oceanclub wrote: »
    So not one of these 5,000 people will manage to get a job in the next seven years?

    And why just the Quinn group? Why should the state not stump up €140,000 to save the job of every other worker who's been laid of?

    And the figure looks like it will be more than merely €140,000; according to the irisheconomy.ie blog, it could be an astonshing €354,000 per worker:



    P.

    I didn't say none would if you read my point. I said the majority wouldn't. Would you disagree?

    Also, I've pointed to plenty of other jobs outside the 5,500 that would be lost yet you have also failed to pick up on that point. The employees pay 11 million and 7 million in taxes as well as pumping money into their local towns. Why were Cavan Chamber of Commercee and Enniskillen town organising marches? For the good of their health?
    As well as that the Quinn Group has paid a substantial amount of tax over the years and continues to do so.

    You miss a vital point there, according to irisheconomy.ie it "could" be that much. There are plenty of economists willing to throw out the worst figures possible and plenty like you willing to lap it up.

    I've also pointed out that the company is running at a profit so the State have every chance of getting their 700 million back, and getting it back quickly with profits of 20 to 30 million a month.

    I'm waiting until the court case on Monday. The truth about the company accounts will come out then, good or bad. I don't think it will be as bad as some of the papers are printing.


  • #70
    Lemlin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,256 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    jmayo wrote: »
    There is one big fly in the ointment and that is a lot of the quinn group jobs are unsustainable.
    These companies are I bet loosing money already.

    There is a hugely decreased market for some of the primary products produced by the big companies in the quinn group.
    Then add in how many people in the quinn group work in hospitality industry i.e. the pubs and hotels.

    People are deluding themselves if they think that the quinn group can be saved with no major loss of jobs.

    As for quinn insurance I reckon there is no way most punters will trust them if the quinn family is anyway involved.


    The Group as a whole is running at a profit because of the major money making divisions - wind farms, the bottle marking factory and, believe it or not, the cement factory was still making a profit. Other parts of the business were struggling but there was enough there to support the jobs form other parts of the Group.
    The problem though is that the Insurance company is the biggets profit maker and was supporting other areas so, if it falls, the whole lot could go and that's the point people are making. That is why the threat is to the 5500 jobs and not just the 2800.

    If the company was running at a loss etc. then why isn't it in liquidation, receivership or why aren't payments being defaulted on? All payments to service providers, staff, on loans etc. are being made.

    There were no redundancies in the whole group in 37 years of business and that's some achievement.


  • #71
    oceanclub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Lemlin wrote: »
    I didn't say none would if you read my point. I said the majority wouldn't. Would you disagree?

    So how many? And why? You don't think another insurer would expand to fill the hole in the market? You don't think any of these people have transferable skills?
    Also, I've pointed to plenty of other jobs outside the 5,500 that would be lost yet you have also failed to pick up on that point.

    Where's the rough figures? I'm sure there will be a knock-on effect, but enough to make up the difference? Nowhere near it.
    The employees pay 11 million and 7 million in taxes

    Eh, that first figure is 11 million Sterling. To the British government. We should bail out them now as well?
    Why were Cavan Chamber of Commercee and Enniskillen town organising marches? For the good of their health?

    I have no idea - how many Fialnna Fail members do these have?
    You miss a vital point there, according to irisheconomy.ie it "could" be that much.

    Well, the only accurate figure that you've offered is the miniscule €7 million in tax. If you have any estimated figures for the knockon effect please quote them.
    I'm waiting until the court case on Monday. The truth about the company accounts will come out then, good or bad. I don't think it will be as bad as some of the papers are printing.

    Frankly, there's no way there'll be accurate figures in a weekend. The Quinn group needs to be thoroughly independently audited as we've no idea how much money Quinn was transferring money back and forth.

    P.


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  • #72
    Nermal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,844 ✭✭✭Nermal


    Lemlin wrote: »
    TThe problem though is that the Insurance company is the biggets profit maker and was supporting other areas so, if it falls, the whole lot could go and that's the point people are making. That is why the threat is to the 5500 jobs and not just the 2800.

    The problem here is that you're believing what Sean Quinn, who genuinely seems not to have any understanding of insurance, is telling you.

    Quinn Insurance is NOT making a profit. Profit comes AFTER setting aside the necessary reserves, which you have not been doing.

    This deal is criminal. The regulator should put Quinn Insurance up for sale, the bondholders of Quinn Group should get what is left, and Anglo should pursue the Quinn family for all their assets until they're living a council house.


  • #73
    Lemlin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,256 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    oceanclub wrote: »
    So how many? And why? You don't think another insurer would expand to fill the hole in the market? You don't think any of these people have transferable skills?



    Where's the rough figures? I'm sure there will be a knock-on effect, but enough to make up the difference? Nowhere near it.



    Eh, that first figure is 11 million Sterling. To the British government. We should bail out them now as well?



    I have no idea - how many Fialnna Fail members do these have?



    Well, the only accurate figure that you've offered is the miniscule €7 million in tax. If you have any estimated figures for the knockon effect please quote them.



    Frankly, there's no way there'll be accurate figures in a weekend. The Quinn group needs to be thoroughly independently audited as we've no idea how much money Quinn was transferring money back and forth.

    P.

    The Northern Ireland government have offered £300 million. I'm not sure if it is widely being reported here but they have offered it to support jobs in NI.

    You ignore my point again. Another insurer may expand. As I've said though, what insurer would you suggest, someone like Aviva with their call centres in India? So Irish people can continue pumping money out of the country?

    Do you also look forward to paying extra premium when prices go up because of the lack of competitiveness? Or what would you say to all the young drivers who are worried about not being able to get insurance?

    The Quinn Group has now been under provisional administration for nearly two weeks so I'd imagine the auditing is well under way.

    I don't have figures. I didn't even provide the tax figure, you did. To be honest, I'm not paying much attention to any of the speculation or figures quoted in the papers. The truth will come out on Monday in the court case. Until then, I'm not going on biased reports from papers, online blogs or even company press releases.

    You, like alot of the papers, seem intent on focusing on the negative and ignoring the positive (you neglected to reply to the fact that the State will get their 700 million back quickly). I'm probably intent on focusing on the positive for obvious reasons.


  • #74
    oceanclub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Nermal wrote: »
    The problem here is that you're believing what Sean Quinn, who genuinely seems not to have any understanding of insurance, is telling you.

    Quinn Insurance is NOT making a profit. Profit comes AFTER setting aside the necessary reserves, which you have not been doing.

    Colm McCarthy says:
    Since non-life companies cannot rule off the books for a particular insurance year for three, four or more years subsequent to the end of the year in question, what is the basis for statements such as ‘Quinn Insurance is profitable’, or ‘Quinn Insurance made €47m in the first quarter’ or ‘Quinn Insurance made profits of €30m. in March’?

    Any confusion of cash-flow and profit in the insurance business is terribly serious

    P.


  • #75
    oceanclub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Lemlin wrote: »
    You ignore my point again. Another insurer may expand. As I've said though, what insurer would you suggest, someone like Aviva with their call centres in India? So Irish people can continue pumping money out of the country?

    Irish people are free to support an insurer who doesn't have call centres outside. You seem to be suggesting that we should allow an insolvent insurer with dodgy practises to keep operating for nationalistic reasons.
    Do you also look forward to paying extra premium when prices go up because of the lack of competitiveness? Or what would you say to all the young drivers who are worried about not being able to get insurance?

    So there's only one option for insurance in Ireland apart from Quinn?
    I don't have figures. I didn't even provide the tax figure, you did. To be honest, I'm not paying much attention to any of the speculation or figures quoted in the papers.

    Sorry, I had assumed you were reading the news and had more information on this situation was greater than "The Mighty Quinn is a great man, so he is".
    you neglected to reply to the fact that the State will get their 700 million back quickly

    I have no idea what you mean, but please tell us anyway.

    Oh, yeah, how bizarre of me to try to assume worst care scenarios for this situation. I mean, everything's going swimmingly in this country with Anglo and NAMA so far, eh?

    P.


  • #76
    jimmysull
    Closed Accounts Posts: 109 ✭✭jimmysull


    oceanclub wrote: »
    So in order to save €110 million(*), we're paying €700 million?

    Can you run through the maths of that one again?

    The biggest problem here is this: The hole in Quinn to meet the Regulator's solvency target is between 100 and 150 million.
    BUT....if an Irish bank takes a majority stake then Quinn insurance becomes part of the bank and the stupid Bank Guarantee applies. There are €600million of bonds that Quinn can technically walk away from or pay in 50 years time if he wishes so they do not come into the solvency calculation. Basically they have no rights, that is the nature of bonds. Once a 'guaranteed' bank gets involved they become part of the calculation and therefore must be covered.
    It is utter lunacy for the Irish taxpayer to plough in this money. I could solve the problem for €100m if I had €100m but if Anglo goes in it costs €700m.
    There has got to be a better way. Letting Quinn plug the gap himself is the only efficient way out of this mess


  • #77
    Lemlin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,256 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    oceanclub wrote: »
    Irish people are free to support an insurer who doesn't have call centres outside. You seem to be suggesting that we should allow an insolvent insurer with dodgy practises to keep operating for nationalistic reasons.

    So there's only one option for insurance in Ireland apart from Quinn?

    Sorry, I had assumed you were reading the news and had more information on this situation was greater than "The Mighty Quinn is a great man, so he is".

    I have no idea what you mean, but please tell us anyway.

    Oh, yeah, how bizarre of me to try to assume worst care scenarios for this situation. I mean, everything's going swimmingly in this country with Anglo and NAMA so far, eh?

    P.

    Yes, Irish people are free to support whoever they please. My point is that it'll result in more revenue lost out of the country and more jobs. You seem to be losing your argument - you were saying that another insurer would fill the job gap, my point was that they may but they'll fill the job gap in India. You now seem to agree. So have you not just invalidated your own initial point? Irish people are free to go where they like but the jobs will go out of Ireland, as per my point.

    Nope, there are plenty of options but Quinn drove prices down. With the lack of competition provided by an insurer who drive prices down, prices will inevitably go up.

    Did I say I wasn't reading the papers? I am reading them but I am not taking them as gospel. There are plenty of papers out there with their own vested interests.

    And I do not subscribe to any mighty Quinn philosophy. In fact, I haven't mentioned Sean himself once in my posts. I am talking about the Quinn Group as a company and not the inidviduals. It's obvious that incorrect decisions have been made and in no way am I disputing that.

    What I mean is that the insurance company is making 30 million profit a month. The money needed will restore solvency and then there's 30 million profit a month to be made. That was my point.


  • #78
    Nermal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,844 ✭✭✭Nermal


    Lemlin wrote: »
    What I mean is that the insurance company is making 30 million profit a month. The money needed will restore solvency and then there's 30 million profit a month to be made. That was my point.

    So I've to invest 700 million into a company that with current pricing cannot maintain solvency.

    So I've to invest 700 million, sack staff, reduce costs, increase premiums and lose customers in order to POSSIBLY get back to a solvent situation at some point in the far future, while all the while my debt of 700 million PLUS 2.8 billion is accruing interest.

    And at that point I won't be making anywhere near 30 million 'profit' a month, and even if I did that wouldn't service my debts, let alone start repaying them.

    Why not just give the 700 million to the employees, and let the thing go bankrupt? It will save money in the long run.


  • #79
    oceanclub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Lemlin wrote: »
    Yes, Irish people are free to support whoever they please. My point is that it'll result in more revenue lost out of the country and more jobs. You seem to be losing your argument - you were saying that another insurer would fill the job gap, my point was that they may but they'll fill the job gap in India. You now seem to agree. So have you not just invalidated your own initial point? Irish people are free to go where they like but the jobs will go out of Ireland, as per my point.

    Er, mate, you're the one who hasn't supplied a single figure, or even estimated one, in this entire argument.

    Your argument hinges on all of the following being being true:

    1. That putting only €700 million into Quinn - the best case scenario - is true.
    2. That Quinn's figures on his firms' profitablity - which no other commentator believes and economists are openly scoffing at(*)- are true
    3 That if Quinn collapses, that all, or the vast majority of, the 5,500 employees, are completely unemployable, that no other Irish insurance firm would expand to hire them (or no new firm would open) and that they would be on the dole for seven years

    (*) He doesn't even know his much liquid assets he has - €700million in one interview, a billion in another.

    P.


  • #80
    jimmysull
    Closed Accounts Posts: 109 ✭✭jimmysull


    oceanclub wrote: »
    Irish people are free to support an insurer who doesn't have call centres outside. You seem to be suggesting that we should allow an insolvent insurer with dodgy practises to keep operating for nationalistic reasons.

    What is your definition of insolvent?

    It looks like Quinn Insurance has enough of an asset/liability ratio to meet its obligations. To cover increased risk the regulator requires that an insurance company has a further 50% in reserve. Not having the full 50% does not make the company insolvent. It does put it outside the regulations but not insolvent.

    Quinn himself may be insolvent, who knows (maybe not even himself), but the insurance company certainly isn't.


  • #81
    jimmysull
    Closed Accounts Posts: 109 ✭✭jimmysull


    Nermal wrote: »
    So I've to invest 700 million into a company that with current pricing cannot maintain solvency.

    So I've to invest 700 million, sack staff, reduce costs, increase premiums and lose customers in order to POSSIBLY get back to a solvent situation at some point in the far future, while all the while my debt of 700 million PLUS 2.8 billion is accruing interest.

    No you don't have to invest €700m, you only have to invest €100m :)
    This post explains why it is just the hair brained proposal for Anglo/The government to take over the company that puts the price up to €700m


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  • #82
    sceptre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,607 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    Lemlin wrote: »
    Quinn have released a statement today:
    Thanks for reposting the statement. And as importantly for the declaration of interest, appreciate that.


  • #83
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Will wonders ever cease Anglo helping to bail out Quinn. Its the Government giving our money to Quinn pretending its loan from Anglo. Is that to avoid the disapproval of the EU. It gets more ridiculous by the week.


  • #84
    Lemlin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,256 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    oceanclub wrote: »
    Er, mate, you're the one who hasn't supplied a single figure, or even estimated one, in this entire argument.

    Your argument hinges on all of the following being being true:

    1. That putting only €700 million into Quinn - the best case scenario - is true.
    2. That Quinn's figures on his firms' profitablity - which no other commentator believes and economists are openly scoffing at(*)- are true
    3 That if Quinn collapses, that all, or the vast majority of, the 5,500 employees, are completely unemployable, that no other Irish insurance firm would expand to hire them (or no new firm would open) and that they would be on the dole for seven years

    (*) He doesn't even know his much liquid assets he has - €700million in one interview, a billion in another.

    P.

    Your stats you gave above are totally wrong so I wouldn't listen to your irisheconomy.ie blog. I've just watched the Prime Time episode you talk about. The salaries paid to employees are 11 million euro per month and 7 million sterling per month. The figures quoted in the blog you said have nothing to do with tax figures or tax paid for the year so are totally taken out of context.

    11 million euro a month is 131 million a year which is a fair bit of money floating around the economy, and also a fair bit of tax.

    As I said above though, you believe everything you read, including posts which are totally wrong on other websites.


  • #85
    Lemlin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,256 ✭✭✭✭Lemlin


    Nermal wrote: »
    So I've to invest 700 million into a company that with current pricing cannot maintain solvency.

    So I've to invest 700 million, sack staff, reduce costs, increase premiums and lose customers in order to POSSIBLY get back to a solvent situation at some point in the far future, while all the while my debt of 700 million PLUS 2.8 billion is accruing interest.

    And at that point I won't be making anywhere near 30 million 'profit' a month, and even if I did that wouldn't service my debts, let alone start repaying them.

    Why not just give the 700 million to the employees, and let the thing go bankrupt? It will save money in the long run.

    As pointed out by someone below, the insurance company is profitable and your definition of solvency is questionable at best.


  • #86
    oldyouth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭oldyouth


    Quinn Insurance is very profitable and would be an asset to anyone, including us as shareholders in Anglo Irish. The problem is that Sean Quinn has given the resources of Quinn Insurance as security against loans taken out by other companies within the group. Separate that and you have a cash cow that will provide funds to the country


  • #87
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    oldyouth wrote: »
    Quinn Insurance is very profitable and would be an asset to anyone, including us as shareholders in Anglo Irish. The problem is that Sean Quinn has given the resources of Quinn Insurance as security against loans taken out by other companies within the group. Separate that and you have a cash cow that will provide funds to the country

    The problem there maybe that those loans are gone bad and the collateral ie the security may need to be seized? What a mess and who has been a naughty boy?


  • #88
    GSF
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭GSF


    Some interesting questions Mr Quinn has so far not answered
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/the-issues-quinn-has-failed-to-address-2132755.html


  • #89
    caesarthechimp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭caesarthechimp


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Will wonders ever cease Anglo helping to bail out Quinn. Its the Government giving our money to Quinn pretending its loan from Anglo. Is that to avoid the disapproval of the EU. It gets more ridiculous by the week.
    More like failed bankers Anglo using political cronyism to move the legislative goalposts, in order to engineer a takeover of a profitable company run by an honest man.
    • Quinn has been one of Irelands most successful businessmen, his only mistake was to put money into Anglo shares/contracts for difference.
    • Elderfield suddenly starts enforcing rules that were previously ignored. What businesses in this country need is a stable environment, not more rollercoaster rides. Any tinkerig or changes should be gradual and consistent.


  • #90
    jprender
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭jprender


    Enrate wrote: »
    More like failed bankers Anglo using political cronyism to move the legislative goalposts, in order to engineer a takeover of a profitable company run by an honest man.
    • Quinn has been one of Irelands most successful businessmen, his only mistake was to put money into Anglo shares/contracts for difference.
    • Elderfield suddenly starts enforcing rules that were previously ignored. What businesses in this country need is a stable environment, not more rollercoaster rides. Any tinkerig or changes should be gradual and consistent.


    A big mistake that he should pay for.

    The regulator is regulating. Doing his job. More of the same please.


    Quinn need to get their own house in order if they are to continue.

    There should be no bail-out of any kind.


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  • #91
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Enrate wrote: »
    [*]Elderfield suddenly starts enforcing rules that were previously ignored. What businesses in this country need is a stable environment, not more rollercoaster rides. Any tinkerig or changes should be gradual and consistent.
    [/LIST]

    Elderfield is doing what was sadly lacking for the last 10 years; i.e. his job.

    Rule 1 : Rules are there for a reason - apply them

    How do you proposed to "gradually" enforce that ?


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