My Life as a Working Dole Scrounger.

Tiddlers · 05-04-2010 12:24AM

dubtom wrote: »

Although I applaud the OP for his get up go attitude,I find it strange that there is not some onus on the employer to at least give bus fares and lunch money,even €100 a week would would be acceptable.At a minimum their saving €500 a week on paying someone. Maybe it's just me and my sense of fair play,but I couldn't have someone work for me for nothing.

I agree with you completely on that but it seems to be at the discretion of individual businesses what extras they want to offer their WPP workers. Some do,some don't. But while one person might ask for lunch money or whatever, another mightn't ;someone might need financial help getting to and from the job whereas another might live around the corner.I'm sure some businesses would take matters like this into consideration before taking someone on board.

epgc3fyqirnbsx · 05-04-2010 01:23AM

dubtom wrote: »

Although I applaud the OP for his get up go attitude,I find it strange that there is not some onus on the employer to at least give bus fares and lunch money,even €100 a week would would be acceptable.At a minimum their saving €500 a week on paying someone. Maybe it's just me and my sense of fair play,but I couldn't have someone work for me for nothing.

A lot of people would think the same, I recently offered to work for someone for free, and I knew that he needed someone as he had recently let someone go due to financial reasons rather than a lack of work, but he was completely unwilling to do so. Said he wouldn't be able to look me in the eye knowing that he wasn't paying me for honest work
Still, he should be elegible for the WPP2 scheme soon so I'll try again, sometimes you just really need experience and you'll do what you have to do.

ZiX ZiX ZiX · 05-04-2010 03:58AM

To the individual this might seem like a good scheme (even though it is COSTING you money to work, you get whatever X amount on the dole regardless of whether you do this or not, when you do it you get (X - travel costs/lunch costs/work clothes/etc)

But anyway I've been following the main topics on this subject on the work/jobs forum and the politics forum and it was very clear with the amount of vacancies available on it (over 1000 afaik) that employers are using it to fill roles they would normally have offered a low salary for. This just screws the government AND the unemployed over.
The government because they are basically giving the companies free workers and paying their dole, whereas the company would normally have to pay some sort of salary (albeit a small one) taking someone off the dole and saving the govt money. It's also screwing the unemployed over because the number of actual "paid" job vacancies is decreasing because of this.

There should most definitely be an onus on the employer to contribute a small amount towards lunch and travel. Even €100 / week would mean the staff member is getting €296 (€100 more than the dole) and the employer is getting staff for €100/week or €5200/year saving them a substantial amount.

seeing_ie · 05-04-2010 04:04AM

Tiddlers wrote: »

I agree with you completely on that but it seems to be at the discretion of individual businesses what extras they want to offer their WPP workers. Some do,some don't. But while one person might ask for lunch money or whatever, another mightn't ;someone might need financial help getting to and from the job whereas another might live around the corner.I'm sure some businesses would take matters like this into consideration before taking someone on board.

...because employers are well known to accommodate employees in a competitive labour market at the expense of their bottom line.

DamoDLK · 05-04-2010 06:20AM

Tomas Billions Gesture wrote: »

When you take a quick peek at the website it's pretty apparent.
The scheme was created to enable people to get experience so that they could then get a job but many employers are just using it for free labour.
I was looking during the week and one of the placements on offer, for example, was in a solicitor firm. Except they wanted someone with 3 years+ experience....
It is meant to be an device where one can get experience, not where you need extensive experience to avail of it

Also jobs offering people the chance to gain experience as a gardener, or waiter etc. You could argue that people really do need experience to obtain a job here but when they are being described as internships you know its just bs and free employment which is costing the state

This is so hard for me to believe - (I'm not saying your lying btw)
Thats just basically a Solicitor looking for another Solicitor/ legal executive to work for nothing. That is pretty bad, but reflects the way things are I guess.

Where the hell is it all going to end in Ireland? I'm in Oz at the moment, but going back home in a few months, dreading the situation....

Galvasean · 05-04-2010 12:13PM

I can relate to the OP.
I've been working voluntarily for over a year now building up a CV. It's not the WPP scheme mind. I work in TV/film. It's pretty much standard practice that you have to 'serve your time' and do a couple of years worth of work for free in order to get a decent paid job in the future. It's some weird loophole; basically since it's considered a form of 'art' it doesn't have to be paid, even though it is work. There are a lot of employers out there taking advantage of the situation though. I have seen many jobs advertised looking for someone to do 'work experience' for 3-6 months unpaid.
I once applied for an advertised (unpaid) job where the job accountabilities were 'making the tea' and 'doing odd jobs around the office', so basically a skivvy. I was told that I didn't have enough experience, despite having a full year's worth of experience in the industry and a degree related to the kind of work the production house do.

For money I still have a part time job in my local supermarket (that I first got when I was still in college), because I can't bring myself to claim social welfare just yet even though I would be entitled to it if I left the shop. It's rough trying to balance a part time job and searching for non paying 'experience' jobs.
So the next time anyone questions my lack of ambition working in a supermarket at my age they can feck right off and try working what is essentially two jobs and only being paid for one (at minimum wage I might ad).

stepbar · 05-04-2010 12:29PM

ZiX ZiX ZiX wrote: »

To the individual this might seem like a good scheme (even though it is COSTING you money to work, you get whatever X amount on the dole regardless of whether you do this or not, when you do it you get (X - travel costs/lunch costs/work clothes/etc

Eh, It costs me to work. It's called tax. People on these schemes should put the head down and get the hell on with it. Dole is way too much in this country as it is.

mickdw · 05-04-2010 01:00PM

I just wonder also whether this unpaid experience will be worth anything on a cv when things start to pick up workwise. I know if I was employing someone, unpaid work would impress me only in relation to having a will to work but the experience gained would in my eyes be pretty worthless. I mean surely if you turn up free, the 'employer' cannot enforce the same level of control over the worker. Surely there is a certain amount of freedom & also im sure, not being given any level of responsibility compared to the paid worker.Also an important point that should be noted is that if a paid worker is kept for 2 years for example in a job, you can be sure they can do that job. However, somebody having worked 2 years without pay was quite possibly never able to do the job but they were still never going to be let go from an unpaid post.

Galvasean · 05-04-2010 01:11PM

That's an interesting point mickdw, I would have thought the opposite myself. If someone has the stones to work for two full years without pay employers might view them as someone unlikely to 'flake' and leave the post on a whim.

Stephentlig · 05-04-2010 04:30PM

Confab wrote: »

It's harder than it looks actually. Got accepted onto the WPP2 scheme doing HR and recruitment. It'll cost €60 a week from my dole money for tickets, lunch and miscellaneous expenses and I gets lots of experience, and entry on my CV and apparently a job if I do the whole nine months without fucking it up. Yes yes, the WPP thing is a scam, but it's useful for someone without any skills (i.e, me) to climb up the 'ol career ladder.

Makes me feel all warm and smug inside until I remember that I'm not being paid. Anyone else doing the same? Maybe volunteer work?

You should do what I'm doin, open up your own business, through the back to work enterprise scheme they have, they allow you to retain your dole for 2 years and your tagged as a LLC company meaning if it all goes belly up you've nothing to lose, whilst doing this you get a grant from the local enterprise board and its all down hill from there.

Pax Christi
Stephen

Mr Benevolent · 05-04-2010 05:23PM

mickdw wrote: »

I just wonder also whether this unpaid experience will be worth anything on a cv when things start to pick up workwise. I know if I was employing someone, unpaid work would impress me only in relation to having a will to work but the experience gained would in my eyes be pretty worthless. I mean surely if you turn up free, the 'employer' cannot enforce the same level of control over the worker. Surely there is a certain amount of freedom & also im sure, not being given any level of responsibility compared to the paid worker.Also an important point that should be noted is that if a paid worker is kept for 2 years for example in a job, you can be sure they can do that job. However, somebody having worked 2 years without pay was quite possibly never able to do the job but they were still never going to be let go from an unpaid post.

I think you're looking at it from a voluntary perspective. I will be paid, albeit only €5.23 per hour. I look on it as an apprentice role, and that how I'm going to sell it to a potential employer.

My Life as a Working Dole Scrounger.

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