My Life as a Working Dole Scrounger.

Mr Benevolent

It's harder than it looks actually. Got accepted onto the WPP2 scheme doing HR and recruitment. It'll cost €60 a week from my dole money for tickets, lunch and miscellaneous expenses and I gets lots of experience, and entry on my CV and apparently a job if I do the whole nine months without fucking it up. Yes yes, the WPP thing is a scam, but it's useful for someone without any skills (i.e, me) to climb up the 'ol career ladder.

Makes me feel all warm and smug inside until I remember that I'm not being paid. Anyone else doing the same? Maybe volunteer work?

ilovelamp2000

We've had a couple of people in the same scheme as you in our office.

I don't know you do it. Fair play to you.

orourkeda

Unemployment sucks sh*t

thetonynator

its prob better than sitting at home with nothing to do all day and definately worht it if you get a job out of it . . .good luck!!

ibarelycare

Confab wrote: »

It's harder than it looks actually. Got accepted onto the WPP2 scheme doing HR and recruitment. It'll cost €60 a week from my dole money for tickets, lunch and miscellaneous expenses and I gets lots of experience, and entry on my CV and apparently a job if I do the whole nine months without fucking it up. Yes yes, the WPP thing is a scam, but it's useful for someone without any skills (i.e, me) to climb up the 'ol career ladder.

Makes me feel all warm and smug inside until I remember that I'm not being paid. Anyone else doing the same? Maybe volunteer work?

But you are being paid

Tiddlers

I started a WPP1 job the week before last. Will cost me € 50 a week on travel alone but I've got the same philosophy as you: the experience will be worth it and pay off in the end. Will look better on a CV than having done nothing. As far as I'm concerned, having to be even more frugal and budget more for the next little while isn't something worth complaining about in the long run. Some people have said I'm a bit silly to be working for free but I'm not;the dole may be small in comparison to many regular wages but it's still money and I'm glad for it and the opporunity to feel like I've earned and deserve it.

alwaysadub

ibarelycare wrote: »

But you are being paid

No-it's a new work experience thing.

OP-how many hours a week is it?

Mr Benevolent

alwaysadub wrote: »

No-it's a new work experience thing.

OP-how many hours a week is it?

9-6 Monday-Friday

MickShamrock

Good luck with that.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

It's a great system. Pity about the abuse though, I've heard terrible stories, it looks like it needs some quality control

MagicMarker

Confab wrote: »

It's harder than it looks actually. Got accepted onto the WPP2 scheme doing HR and recruitment. It'll cost €60 a week from my dole money for tickets, lunch and miscellaneous expenses and I gets lots of experience, and entry on my CV and apparently a job if I do the whole nine months without fucking it up. Yes yes, the WPP thing is a scam, but it's useful for someone without any skills (i.e, me) to climb up the 'ol career ladder.

Makes me feel all warm and smug inside until I remember that I'm not being paid. Anyone else doing the same? Maybe volunteer work?

Ah here, if you've got fúck all experience then you should be thankful. You're the kind of person that this scheme was made for. You more than likely wouldn't get a job otherwise.

It's the people who do have skills and experience who should be complaining!!

phasers

This WPP thing is just rebranded slave labour

alwaysadub

Confab wrote: »

9-6 Monday-Friday

Didn't know if it was full time or part time hours.
Best of luck with it!

mojesius

I say go for it, you have nothing to lose but 60 euro a week. Put your best effort at it, you never know where it might lead
I'm seriously considering volunteering for a few years when I graduate this summer. It'll be more rewarding than my part-time job that I f*cking despise. The entire job market has changed and it ain't changing back anytime soon.

mickdw

I like the idea of getting people out of the house but this should be outlawed. IMO, your full dole payment should go to employer for a given period to help them employ you at an acceptable wage. You then get the reasonable wage, you wont begrudge going to a job that is costing you money.
The government then cut all other benefits that you will not be entitled to as an employed person.
I think the government have a scheme something like this.
IMO also, fas schemes have destroyed the country. It should be a training agency, instead they have created crap paying jobs such as school secretary, caretakers etc where instead of someone having a secure reasonably paid job, they end up with a 20 hour a week job with dole levels of pay, not being trained in any way.

sean0

ye hopefully something good comes from it man, i'd find it hard to motivate myself to go in everyday knowing i'm not going to be paid.

Duggy747

Fair play to ya, at least you're doing more than a lot of lazy bastards I know with the next sign-on day being their only care.

I'd be sickened working those hours and not seeing a cent!

PK2008

What is WPP1?

Tiddlers

PK2008 wrote: »

What is WPP1?

WPP1 is a scheme for people with a college degree but no work experience.Jobs in the WPP1 scheme should be for these graduates but before I got my placement often I was told that a job was given to someone with more experience!!

WPP2 is for non-college grads.

Another poster mentioned how FAS schemes should be reserved for training and not for low paid work. (correct me if I'm wrong!) But in my WPP1 job I am getting trained in loads of areas I have no experience with the added bonus of being able to work with a company too.

billymitchell

Tomas Billions Gesture wrote: »

It's a great system. Pity about the abuse though, I've heard terrible stories, it looks like it needs some quality control

What is this 'abuse' that you speak of??

the butcher

Sure you might get experience from this but there is no guarantee you'll get any future work or training? If everyone accepts 9 months and no wage, all private companies will jump on it and it will become the norm. Government bumping up the deficit.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

billymitchell wrote: »

What is this 'abuse' that you speak of??

When you take a quick peek at the website it's pretty apparent.
The scheme was created to enable people to get experience so that they could then get a job but many employers are just using it for free labour.
I was looking during the week and one of the placements on offer, for example, was in a solicitor firm. Except they wanted someone with 3 years+ experience....
It is meant to be an device where one can get experience, not where you need extensive experience to avail of it

Also jobs offering people the chance to gain experience as a gardener, or waiter etc. You could argue that people really do need experience to obtain a job here but when they are being described as internships you know its just bs and free employment which is costing the state

Piriz

ibarelycare wrote: »

But you are being paid

Don't be so patronising!!!

Fair play Confab!!

Mr Benevolent

Tomas Billions Gesture wrote: »

When you take a quick peek at the website it's pretty apparent.
The scheme was created to enable people to get experience so that they could then get a job but many employers are just using it for free labour.
I was looking during the week and one of the placements on offer, for example, was in a solicitor firm. Except they wanted someone with 3 years+ experience....
It is meant to be an device where one can get experience, not where you need extensive experience to avail of it

Also jobs offering people the chance to gain experience as a gardener, or waiter etc. You could argue that people really do need experience to obtain a job here but when they are being described as internships you know its just bs and free employment which is costing the state

In my case they're not looking for any experience, just work, so that's useful for me. I get out of the boredom of the dole while getting useful experience.

Tiddlers

Piriz wrote: »

Don't be so patronising!!!

Fair play Confab!!

Each individual will perceive it differently. See a previous post of mine where I state that I consider myself to be getting paid,just not a wage as big as many people are.

billymitchell

billymitchell wrote: »

What is this 'abuse' that you speak of??

We have whole threads about it

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055852864&page=9

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65085023&postcount=125

I.Am.A.Panda

mickdw wrote: »

I like the idea of getting people out of the house but this should be outlawed. IMO, your full dole payment should go to employer for a given period to help them employ you at an acceptable wage. You then get the reasonable wage, you wont begrudge going to a job that is costing you money.
The government then cut all other benefits that you will not be entitled to as an employed person.
I think the government have a scheme something like this.
IMO also, fas schemes have destroyed the country. It should be a training agency, instead they have created crap paying jobs such as school secretary, caretakers etc where instead of someone having a secure reasonably paid job, they end up with a 20 hour a week job with dole levels of pay, not being trained in any way.

Anyone with a notion of economics realises that employment for all is unsustainable bar in a situation like WW2.

Employers think "great, I get this guys dole payments, pay him a standard wage and he does work for me. Cheap employment! I'll hire a bunch of these guys and fire my current staff!"

Then, that staff goes on the dole. And now, the government is paying twice the doles.

seeing_ie

billymitchell wrote: »

What is this 'abuse' that you speak of??

Umpteen examples here.

http://www.politics.ie/economy/126386-wpp1-2-latest-fas-scam.html#post2544447

There's nothing wrong with genuine internships or similar arrangements but this typically ill thought out scheme effectively sets the pay for a weeks work at whatever the dole is. Less when you subtract travel and other expenses.

It will also allow employers to simply hire new WPP trainees every 9 months at the taxpayers expense, without ever having to offer proper benefits or conditions.

I'm sure unscrupulous employers will find other ways to exploit it as time goes on.

It does reduce the numbers on the live register though, which must benefit somebody.

MikeC101

I.Am.A.Panda wrote: »

Anyone with a notion of economics realises that employment for all is unsustainable bar in a situation like WW2.

Employers think "great, I get this guys dole payments, pay him a standard wage and he does work for me. Cheap employment! I'll hire a bunch of these guys and fire my current staff!"

Then, that staff goes on the dole. And now, the government is paying twice the doles.

In theory, employers that have made staff redundant in the last 6 (?) months aren't eligible to take people on the scheme. I don't think I'd have much faith in the ability of FÁS to ensure that though.

A few of the jobs on it are definitely worth it, for people without experience looking to get into a career. But some of them look suspiciously like employers looking for free labour.

Depends on where you live really I guess. There's one I'd really like to do, but it's in Dublin and commuting wouldn't be practical because of where I live, and I don't think I could afford to live in Dublin on a salary of 10,000 a year.

greendom

In general if it's not abused by the employer, then I'm in favour of it - but they really should at least cover travel costs and something towards lunch too.

dubtom

Although I applaud the OP for his get up go attitude,I find it strange that there is not some onus on the employer to at least give bus fares and lunch money,even €100 a week would would be acceptable.At a minimum their saving €500 a week on paying someone. Maybe it's just me and my sense of fair play,but I couldn't have someone work for me for nothing.

Tiddlers

dubtom wrote: »

Although I applaud the OP for his get up go attitude,I find it strange that there is not some onus on the employer to at least give bus fares and lunch money,even €100 a week would would be acceptable.At a minimum their saving €500 a week on paying someone. Maybe it's just me and my sense of fair play,but I couldn't have someone work for me for nothing.

I agree with you completely on that but it seems to be at the discretion of individual businesses what extras they want to offer their WPP workers. Some do,some don't. But while one person might ask for lunch money or whatever, another mightn't ;someone might need financial help getting to and from the job whereas another might live around the corner.I'm sure some businesses would take matters like this into consideration before taking someone on board.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

dubtom wrote: »

Although I applaud the OP for his get up go attitude,I find it strange that there is not some onus on the employer to at least give bus fares and lunch money,even €100 a week would would be acceptable.At a minimum their saving €500 a week on paying someone. Maybe it's just me and my sense of fair play,but I couldn't have someone work for me for nothing.

A lot of people would think the same, I recently offered to work for someone for free, and I knew that he needed someone as he had recently let someone go due to financial reasons rather than a lack of work, but he was completely unwilling to do so. Said he wouldn't be able to look me in the eye knowing that he wasn't paying me for honest work
Still, he should be elegible for the WPP2 scheme soon so I'll try again, sometimes you just really need experience and you'll do what you have to do.

ZiX ZiX ZiX

To the individual this might seem like a good scheme (even though it is COSTING you money to work, you get whatever X amount on the dole regardless of whether you do this or not, when you do it you get (X - travel costs/lunch costs/work clothes/etc)

But anyway I've been following the main topics on this subject on the work/jobs forum and the politics forum and it was very clear with the amount of vacancies available on it (over 1000 afaik) that employers are using it to fill roles they would normally have offered a low salary for. This just screws the government AND the unemployed over.
The government because they are basically giving the companies free workers and paying their dole, whereas the company would normally have to pay some sort of salary (albeit a small one) taking someone off the dole and saving the govt money. It's also screwing the unemployed over because the number of actual "paid" job vacancies is decreasing because of this.

There should most definitely be an onus on the employer to contribute a small amount towards lunch and travel. Even €100 / week would mean the staff member is getting €296 (€100 more than the dole) and the employer is getting staff for €100/week or €5200/year saving them a substantial amount.

seeing_ie

Tiddlers wrote: »

I agree with you completely on that but it seems to be at the discretion of individual businesses what extras they want to offer their WPP workers. Some do,some don't. But while one person might ask for lunch money or whatever, another mightn't ;someone might need financial help getting to and from the job whereas another might live around the corner.I'm sure some businesses would take matters like this into consideration before taking someone on board.

...because employers are well known to accommodate employees in a competitive labour market at the expense of their bottom line.

DamoDLK

Tomas Billions Gesture wrote: »

When you take a quick peek at the website it's pretty apparent.
The scheme was created to enable people to get experience so that they could then get a job but many employers are just using it for free labour.
I was looking during the week and one of the placements on offer, for example, was in a solicitor firm. Except they wanted someone with 3 years+ experience....
It is meant to be an device where one can get experience, not where you need extensive experience to avail of it

Also jobs offering people the chance to gain experience as a gardener, or waiter etc. You could argue that people really do need experience to obtain a job here but when they are being described as internships you know its just bs and free employment which is costing the state

This is so hard for me to believe - (I'm not saying your lying btw)
Thats just basically a Solicitor looking for another Solicitor/ legal executive to work for nothing. That is pretty bad, but reflects the way things are I guess.

Where the hell is it all going to end in Ireland? I'm in Oz at the moment, but going back home in a few months, dreading the situation....

Galvasean

I can relate to the OP.
I've been working voluntarily for over a year now building up a CV. It's not the WPP scheme mind. I work in TV/film. It's pretty much standard practice that you have to 'serve your time' and do a couple of years worth of work for free in order to get a decent paid job in the future. It's some weird loophole; basically since it's considered a form of 'art' it doesn't have to be paid, even though it is work. There are a lot of employers out there taking advantage of the situation though. I have seen many jobs advertised looking for someone to do 'work experience' for 3-6 months unpaid.
I once applied for an advertised (unpaid) job where the job accountabilities were 'making the tea' and 'doing odd jobs around the office', so basically a skivvy. I was told that I didn't have enough experience, despite having a full year's worth of experience in the industry and a degree related to the kind of work the production house do.

For money I still have a part time job in my local supermarket (that I first got when I was still in college), because I can't bring myself to claim social welfare just yet even though I would be entitled to it if I left the shop. It's rough trying to balance a part time job and searching for non paying 'experience' jobs.
So the next time anyone questions my lack of ambition working in a supermarket at my age they can feck right off and try working what is essentially two jobs and only being paid for one (at minimum wage I might ad).

stepbar

ZiX ZiX ZiX wrote: »

To the individual this might seem like a good scheme (even though it is COSTING you money to work, you get whatever X amount on the dole regardless of whether you do this or not, when you do it you get (X - travel costs/lunch costs/work clothes/etc

Eh, It costs me to work. It's called tax. People on these schemes should put the head down and get the hell on with it. Dole is way too much in this country as it is.

mickdw

I just wonder also whether this unpaid experience will be worth anything on a cv when things start to pick up workwise. I know if I was employing someone, unpaid work would impress me only in relation to having a will to work but the experience gained would in my eyes be pretty worthless. I mean surely if you turn up free, the 'employer' cannot enforce the same level of control over the worker. Surely there is a certain amount of freedom & also im sure, not being given any level of responsibility compared to the paid worker.Also an important point that should be noted is that if a paid worker is kept for 2 years for example in a job, you can be sure they can do that job. However, somebody having worked 2 years without pay was quite possibly never able to do the job but they were still never going to be let go from an unpaid post.

Galvasean

That's an interesting point mickdw, I would have thought the opposite myself. If someone has the stones to work for two full years without pay employers might view them as someone unlikely to 'flake' and leave the post on a whim.

Stephentlig

Confab wrote: »

It's harder than it looks actually. Got accepted onto the WPP2 scheme doing HR and recruitment. It'll cost €60 a week from my dole money for tickets, lunch and miscellaneous expenses and I gets lots of experience, and entry on my CV and apparently a job if I do the whole nine months without fucking it up. Yes yes, the WPP thing is a scam, but it's useful for someone without any skills (i.e, me) to climb up the 'ol career ladder.

Makes me feel all warm and smug inside until I remember that I'm not being paid. Anyone else doing the same? Maybe volunteer work?

You should do what I'm doin, open up your own business, through the back to work enterprise scheme they have, they allow you to retain your dole for 2 years and your tagged as a LLC company meaning if it all goes belly up you've nothing to lose, whilst doing this you get a grant from the local enterprise board and its all down hill from there.

Pax Christi
Stephen

Mr Benevolent

mickdw wrote: »

I just wonder also whether this unpaid experience will be worth anything on a cv when things start to pick up workwise. I know if I was employing someone, unpaid work would impress me only in relation to having a will to work but the experience gained would in my eyes be pretty worthless. I mean surely if you turn up free, the 'employer' cannot enforce the same level of control over the worker. Surely there is a certain amount of freedom & also im sure, not being given any level of responsibility compared to the paid worker.Also an important point that should be noted is that if a paid worker is kept for 2 years for example in a job, you can be sure they can do that job. However, somebody having worked 2 years without pay was quite possibly never able to do the job but they were still never going to be let go from an unpaid post.

I think you're looking at it from a voluntary perspective. I will be paid, albeit only €5.23 per hour. I look on it as an apprentice role, and that how I'm going to sell it to a potential employer.