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TIME TO SACK THE POPE

12346

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  • #152
    landsleaving
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,345 ✭✭✭landsleaving


    Don't sack him
    Joey the lips wrote: »
    I agree. But it is totally unreasonable for athiest and tbh those who dont give a dam about the church on this thread to spead all there time condeming the church without condeming the state.

    This is my problem.

    For example it was the develara years that mainly saw the abuse in many of these institutions... Has fianna fail ever been critical of this...no.. Why not...

    Yes, the state has had a role, and yes they shoulder an amount of the blame, for failing to act and for the continued role of a private institution in the public sphere, especially after said institution was revealed to be corrupt in it's actions.

    But you can see that the church itself is the biggest villain in this can't you? They commited the crimes and they did their utmost to cover them up. People are obviously going to attack them over the state because they are more obviously at fault.

    Morally the Pope's position is untenable and he should step down, if you disagree then I await your argument. If not, then you should at least understand why people are discussing it and not mentioning the state all the time.

    Now I've made a fairly articulate point and I'm getting back on my unicorn again. If any of you disturb me expect a blast of pixie dust in the eyes.


  • #153
    Joey the lips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭Joey the lips


    goat2 wrote: »
    [/B]
    answer
    remember the church kept everything within the church, so it did not get out back in the day, the church ruled this country back then,

    Your wrong there. totally. I thought the film "A song for a raggy boy" would have pointed that out to you. It was as much the state as the church.


  • #154
    Joey the lips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭Joey the lips


    landsleaving wrote: »
    Yes, the state has had a role, and yes they shoulder an amount of the blame, for failing to act and for the continued role of a private institution in the public sphere, especially after said institution was revealed to be corrupt in it's actions.

    But you can see that the church itself is the biggest villain in this can't you? They commited the crimes and they did their utmost to cover them up. People are obviously going to attack them over the state because they are more obviously at fault.

    Morally the Pope's position is untenable and he should step down, if you disagree then I await your argument. If not, then you should at least understand why people are discussing it and not mentioning the state all the time.

    I dont actually disagree.. If the pope does noting yes he is at fault but if he acts no i dont think he is at fault.

    This is the misunderstanding of the catholic faith. The catholic faith while wrong allows for forgiveness. But it also calls for retrabution so it all depends on how the church acts going forward.


  • #155
    Joey the lips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭Joey the lips


    Carry wrote: »
    I wasn't aware that you were critisizing the pole of the Zohan. Is he a pole dancer then? Or what do you mean with the pole of the Zohan? Zohan? ZOHAN???

    No, I'm not with you, never will be, thank god (sic!).

    Sorry, just getting into AH-drive... :D
    Everything else is too frustrating.

    Now your just being padentic. I shall ignore you so.


  • #156
    landsleaving
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,345 ✭✭✭landsleaving


    Don't sack him
    Joey the lips wrote: »
    I dont actually disagree.. If the pope does noting yes he is at fault but if he acts no i dont think he is at fault.

    This is the misunderstanding of the catholic faith. The catholic faith while wrong allows for forgiveness. But it also calls for retrabution so it all depends on how the church acts going forward.

    I think thats a fair point. I'm not sure others would agree but it really is the Catholic community who should influence who leads them. I would just disagree with it if he was to do nothing, as you would.

    Now that an agreement of sorts has been reached, can we all be friends? You can join me on my rainbow. I have marshmallows.


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  • #157
    Carry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭Carry


    Don't sack him
    Joey the lips wrote: »
    Your wrong there. totally. I thought the film "A song for a raggy boy" would have pointed that out to you. It was as much the state as the church.

    No, you're wrong again. Besides: Life is not a movie, it's more complex.

    The church established itself into the Irish constitution, had a grip whereever there was a grip available. They influenced the law because they influenced the establishment - to the advantage of both, because the establishment is made of money and power and that's what they all want to keep. And the church hadn't any qualms to work with the "oppressors" first - the so much hated English. The creep up to anyone just to stay in power.

    The state as such worked closely together with the catholic hierarchy, but the latter had the reigns since the so-called catholic emancipation - which was just another euphemism for working together with the ruling classes - then the English. See above.

    Joey, no-one tackles the faith as such, but only those who use the faith as a loophole and "god-given right" for their unimaginable wrongdoings.


  • #158
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Carry wrote: »
    No, you're wrong again. Besides: Life is not a movie, it's more complex.

    Yup - life is a box of chocolates.


  • #159
    Carry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭Carry


    Don't sack him
    starbelgrade wrote: »
    Yup - life is a box of chocolates.

    Darling - the victims of the men in black wouldn't see it like that. Though a lot of men of the cloth certainly thought at the sight of altar boys: there is a god, and he made chocolate boxes...

    No. It's not funny, really. Sorry.


  • #160
    landsleaving
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,345 ✭✭✭landsleaving


    Don't sack him
    Carry wrote: »
    Darling - the victims of the men in black wouldn't see it like that. Though a lot of men of the cloth certainly thought at the sight of altar boys: there is a god, and he made chocolate boxes...

    No. It's not funny, really. Sorry.

    Ah but they wouldn't remember would they?



  • #161
    Carry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭Carry


    Don't sack him
    Shouldn't you be in bed yet? :rolleyes:


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  • #162
    m@cc@
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,526 ✭✭✭m@cc@


    Don't sack him
    Joey the lips wrote: »
    By the way for the record. I think its a disgrace that you can see who voted what in the pole and so would not take part in such a witch hunt.

    Its another side to this childish debate that does actuall piss me off.

    JP is dead, it's the Nazi we're after.


  • #163
    landsleaving
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,345 ✭✭✭landsleaving


    Don't sack him
    :confused::confused::confused:

    Whatcha mean? (@ carry)


  • #164
    m@cc@
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,526 ✭✭✭m@cc@


    Don't sack him
    Carry wrote: »
    Shouldn't you be in bed yet? :rolleyes:

    Careful, that's the kinda chat that started these scandals.


  • #165
    Carry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭Carry


    Don't sack him
    landsleaving wrote: »
    :confused::confused::confused:

    Whatcha mean? (@ carry)

    Sorry, my comment about the men in black was meant in a sarcastic way, meaning the priests. Yours, methinks, was meant in a flippant pop-culture way which made me assume you are at least 16, mentally at least.

    Aaah, the rules of AH.... not that easy, innit? Especially when it is about a very serious matter, imo.

    No offence meant. Just poking a bit...


  • #166
    landsleaving
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,345 ✭✭✭landsleaving


    Don't sack him
    Carry wrote: »
    Sorry, my comment about the men in black was meant in a sarcastic way, meaning the priests. Yours, methinks, was meant in a flippant pop-culture way which made me assume you are at least 16, mentally at least.

    Aaah, the rules of AH.... not that easy, innit? Especially when it is about a very serious matter, imo.

    No offence meant. Just poking a bit...

    None taken, I thought thats what you meant, just checking. I didn't want to post a stunningly hilarious and witty riposte had you meant something different. And I knew what you meant about the priests, but as you said, it's AH. Expect the unexpected and/or absurd and/or Will Smith.


  • #167
    peccavi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭peccavi


    genericguy wrote: »
    ...all under the direct supervision of the current pope who wrote the protocols for the suppression of allegations.[/B]
    Your post is a hateful, bigoted rant. I've deleted most of your rant in the above quote. May God forgive you.

    The current Pope did not write protocols to cover up anything.

    Two links help to explain the truth about this matter.

    Spreading the Big Lie
    http://article.nationalreview.com/429663/spreading-the-big-lie/george-weigel-br-rev-jay-scott-newman

    Lutheran article:
    http://www.logia.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=121&catid=39:web-forum&Itemid=18

    There is so much irrational hate and venom for this humble, holy man. It goes way beyond, I repeat, way beyond any righteous anger at abuse. It finds its origin in hatred for the Holy Church, and Christ Himself who was reviled by the hateful mob when He walked this earth, and led to His crucifixion.


  • #168
    bleg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    The pope is an evil disgusting man.


  • #169
    peccavi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭peccavi


    bleg wrote: »
    The pope is an evil disgusting man.
    They said similar things about the Lord. May God forgive you for your venomous hatred.


  • #170
    Sharpshooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,859 ✭✭✭✭Sharpshooter


    peccavi wrote: »
    Your post is a hateful, bigoted rant. I've deleted most of your rant in the above quote. May God forgive you.

    The current Pope did not write protocols to cover up anything.

    Two links help to explain the truth about this matter.

    Spreading the Big Lie
    http://article.nationalreview.com/429663/spreading-the-big-lie/george-weigel-br-rev-jay-scott-newman

    Lutheran article:
    http://www.logia.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=121&catid=39:web-forum&Itemid=18

    There is so much irrational hate and venom for this humble, holy man. It goes way beyond, I repeat, way beyond any righteous anger at abuse. It finds its origin in hatred for the Holy Church, and Christ Himself who was reviled by the hateful mob when He walked this earth, and led to His crucifixion.

    peccavi, you might feel more comfortable posting Here.:)

    Do try to get a feel for After Hours before you post again.
    Just to learn how the forum works.:pac:

    Then you will know if it's for you or not.


  • #171
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Don't sack him
    Spore wrote: »
    While he was in the Hitler Youth - so was every other youth in Germany at the time, it was national policy so he had no choice. .
    Fail !


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  • #172
    peccavi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭peccavi


    Sharpshooter wrote: »
    peccavi, you might feel more comfortable posting Here.:)

    Do try to get a feel for After Hours before you post again.
    Just to learn how the forum works.:pac:

    Then you will know if it's for you or not.

    Meh. I don't like the company very much.:(


  • #173
    M5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,161 ✭✭✭✭M5


    Don't sack him
    Personaly i thing the thread should be titled "time to smack the pope"


  • #174
    peccavi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭peccavi


    M5 wrote: »
    Personaly i thing the thread should be titled "time to smack the pope"

    I think most of the contributors to this thread have very deep unresolved anger issues!


  • #175
    Sharpshooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,859 ✭✭✭✭Sharpshooter


    peccavi wrote: »
    Meh. I don't like the company very much.:(

    Then try the lighthearted threads, you might enjoy them more.
    Give us a chance.:pac:


  • #176
    M5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,161 ✭✭✭✭M5


    Don't sack him
    peccavi wrote: »
    I think most of the contributors to this thread have very deep unresolved anger issues!

    hook line and sinker


  • #177
    dRNk SAnTA
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 779 ✭✭✭dRNk SAnTA


    What is up with Irish Catholics?

    Everytime I hear a priest being interviewed they're usually asked:

    "Why aren't there female priests?"
    "Shouldn't priests be able to get married?",
    "Why is the church against contraception?"
    "Isn't it time the church moved into the 21st century?"

    People sit around asking why the church doesn't change... Well I've got a mad suggestion, if you don't actually agree with what the catholic church teaches then why do you call yourself a Catholic? Leave!

    Most Irish people's religious opinions probably have more in common with protestant churches! (boo, hiss, evil brits, etc...)

    I don't believe in the Church of Scientology, so it would be pretty stupid of me to join it only to complain that they don't teach what I believe in.


  • #178
    M5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,161 ✭✭✭✭M5


    Don't sack him
    dRNk SAnTA wrote: »
    What is up with Irish Catholics?

    Everytime I hear a priest being interviewed they're usually asked:

    "Why aren't there female priests?"
    "Shouldn't priests be able to get married?",
    "Why is the church against contraception?"
    "Isn't it time the church moved into the 21st century?"

    People sit around asking why the church doesn't change... Well I've got a mad suggestion, if you don't actually agree with what the catholic church teaches then why do you call yourself a Catholic? Leave!

    Most Irish people's religious opinions probably have more in common with protestant churches! (boo, hiss, evil brits, etc...)

    I don't believe in the Church of Scientology, so it would be pretty stupid of me to join it only to complain that they don't teach what I believe in.

    (from an Irish perspective) Church of scientology didn't co write the constitution!

    Good Friday, abortion, divorce etc. they should be personaly choice not forced uppon everyone (inc non catholics)


  • #179
    Noreen1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    Joey the lips wrote: »

    However as you mention a newborn I imagine god sees no one as being more pure than a new born child. There for I doubt that god supported the chuch when it buried unbaptised children outside grave yards.

    Check out "Baptism of Desire" by Thomas Acquinas on that one.

    Noreen


  • #180
    Noreen1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    I usually avoid posting in religious threads, for the very simple reason that I think a persons religion, or lack of one, is entirely their own business, and such discussions usually have some pretty nasty comments thrown in TBH.

    This time, I'm giong to break my own rule. (and possibly get bashed from both sides of the argument lol)

    Any reasonable person, Catholic or otherwise, would agree that what happened was absolutely disgusting. I think it's fair to say that Irish Catholics are shocked and appalled - with very good reason.

    I think it's also fair to say that every victim deserves justice. Paedophiles should be jailed for their crimes, it's as simple as that.

    Now, here's where the waters get a little muddy......

    Does the fact that a report of child abuse passed through a Bishops office mean that he was aware of it? I don't know, but I imagine that in a small diocese, he probably was - in a very large diocese, I'm not so sure! It's fair to say he should have been aware, but was he? And if not, is he as guilty as the Bishop who did know?

    Next question: What if a Bishop received advice from a Psychologist that Father X had been successfully treated for his "disorder", and could be returned to his duties? Should that Bishop resign too?

    It seems to me that the only way to get close to the truth is through our justice system. Every Bishop in a diocese where a paedophile priest operated needs to be investigated. The guilty deserve to be punished, the innocent deserve to have their names cleared.
    Hopefully, the end result might be justice for everyone.

    Lastly, (and this is for informational purposes, not intended as a dig at any particular person) The word "Catholic" means "Universal", and the Catholic Church is made up of every member - not just the hierarchy. So, every comment directed at the Church is directed at every Catholic:eek::eek:. I don't believe they were meant that way, though! Even so, I'd hate to be a priest or bishop reading this thread, who had no involvement in the scandal.

    Noreen


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  • #181
    Joey the lips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭Joey the lips


    Noreen1 wrote: »
    Check out "Baptism of Desire" by Thomas Acquinas on that one.

    Noreen


    I take it that god wrote it..? Why dont you just explain why god and my views of a book written by a person intertwine. Thanks


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