Pre Marriage Course

aldeniro · 25-02-2010 03:20PM

Directly relevant , then No. No thread sticks 100% to any topic without some element of it slightly off topic. Pre marriage course in my opinion is a money racket, money making for the church, as well as other things "church" related that has to also be paid. While hopefully some couples get something from it, thats great. But would suggest that maj do not. 5 other couples i knew attended same one i did and were all of same opinion as myself.

Yes you did mention "at cost" for the course, bravo i agree.

billybunty · 25-02-2010 11:25PM

Hi OP, we are getting married in Sept. I can tell you that I have checked out if we have to do Pre-marital course with our local parish office and a bishop. BOTH have advised me to ask the priest marrying us - so I did, and the priest that is marrying us told me we do NOT have to do this, he will write a letter to the local parish priest to state that he is satisfied that we have the appropriate requirements to get married - hope this helps!

Toots · 26-02-2010 12:09AM

We asked our PP if there was any way of getting out of the course, seeing as we're together 7 years and living together for 4 of them. He said he wanted us to do the course on account of our ages (we were 23 and 25 when we got engaged).

However my OH's older brother got married at 32, after being with his wife for the same amount of time, and the PP was happy not to send them on the course. He also knows the brother very well, and they'd actually socialise a bit together, so he was happy that they were both prepared for marriage.

dmcg21 · 04-04-2010 02:55PM

how much is it for the marriage cert and the course and can they be done any cheaper

BC · 04-04-2010 04:19PM

dmcg21 wrote: »

how much is it for the marriage cert and the course and can they be done any cheaper

The pre marraige course is a church requirement and ranges from about 120 to 200 depending on the course from what i've seen.

By marriage cert I assume you mean the state registrars appointment. Thats 150 euro and no it can't be done cheaper. To actually get your marriage cert after the wedding has happened then costs about 10 euro.

Dataighom · 23-04-2010 08:19PM

I found the Accord people giving the course to be condescending and more than a little arrogant.
It is a catholic based course so i expected it to be a little biased towards the churches teaching but i didn't expect it to be deliberately misleading.

The family planning section could be summed up as
"The pill is bad" and we were actually told that the Natural family planning method is 98% effective. I still wonder how many of the other attendees went home and managed to get their girlfriend knocked up because they believed what they were told.

We didn't get any information that i would consider practical such as the legal forms we need in advance of getting married and any of the tax implications.

If you want to spend a weekend getting talked to like you were a 10 year old and listen to someone in their 50s who got married when they were 18 start every sentence with "Well in my day ..." then knock yourself out. Otherwise try and find some other organisation the does the course.

I did the course in Carndonagh in Co. Donegal so maybe it's a little different up here as opposed to the one in the city. But i still rate the weekend worse than one were my dog got run over by a car, Thierry Henri knocked us out of the world cup and i managed to get my lottery tickets mixed up and though i had won the jackpot for 2 hours.

tinkerbell · 23-04-2010 09:46PM

^^ This is why I'd never do the heap of **** that is the pre-marriage course. Absolute waste of time and to be talked down to from those condescending bunch of idiots.

And this whole thing about natural family planning method being 98% effective, they are off their rocker, feckin nutjobs.

sse · 23-04-2010 10:34PM

I attended the accord one which went on for two saturdays and the only thing I learned from it is that 1 in 5 marriages breakdown.

I hated it....just remember the course was broken up into various modules where you where taught how to be married!! You then had to fill out this booklet(or marriage manual of some sort) and answer questions with the other half......then every so often you would here, "And now we'll go knee to kee" this soppy music would come on in the background and you would have to review the answers with the other half!
Major Cringe Worthy Stuff

They also split the males and females up into groups for discussion. Some of the stuff people came out with was unreal....you could see they had issues.

The whole thing is really for gob****es who don't realise what they're getting themselves into. I can understand how some people might gain from it but its not something I'd like to go through again

Dataighom · 24-04-2010 09:22PM

I'd actually forgotten about the music. It's funny how the mind will suppress things that are emotionally damaging.

After i had done the course i had a look around online and i found these guys.
http://premarriagecourse.org/aboutus.aspx

They all seem to have degrees that specalise in Counselling & Psychotherapy as opposed to accord people doing our course whose only qualification was they had a pulse

sharonl · 28-04-2010 11:17AM

Its not compulsory to do one, it may be for your priest, depending on if they are open minded or not. We;re getting married in July and while our priest recommended we do one, he's leaving it entirely up to us to decide if we do it or not, he said he will be sending the paperwork off wether we choose to do it or not so if we don't do it, it won't stop anything happening, we have been living together for 5 years and are in our 30's and both see the pre marriage course as a bit of a waste of time for us, so we're not doing it. If living together for 5 years and going through all the regular financial/relationship issues that go with it don't prepare you for marriage, then a day long course is certainly not going to, so we won't be wasting our money doing one. Best thing is to check with your priest, we told ours while we would prefer not to do it, and explained why, if he required us to do it we would, but he was happy enough for us not to bother.

bamboozle · 30-04-2010 10:28AM

recently did the pre-marriage course in all hollows in drumcondra, it cost €150 from 9.30 to about 4.45, i found it useful enough and to be honest with so many silly costs attached to weddings like favours, presents for groomsmen and bridesmaids, buying a round for your guests for the toast etc etc etc i didnt think paying 150 for a pre-marriage course to be an issue as we're getting married in a catholic church.

its very simple in my mind, if you have an issue with the catholic church dont get married in one, if you have an issue with the church and feel you need the church wedding then suck it up and live with the associated costs.

billybunty · 30-04-2010 12:02PM

Very well put!

prinz · 30-04-2010 01:01PM

Dataighom wrote: »

The family planning section could be summed up as
"The pill is bad" and we were actually told that the Natural family planning method is 98% effective. I still wonder how many of the other attendees went home and managed to get their girlfriend knocked up because they believed what they were told.

"The Natural Family Planning Method"...as if there wasn't more than one.:rolleyes: Here's a hint, take a look at the actual and possible physical side effects of the pill, then do similar for NFP methods...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6375261.stm

BBC nutjobs?

tinkerbell wrote: »

And this whole thing about natural family planning method being 98% effective, they are off their rocker, feckin nutjobs.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070221065200.htm

Science Daily... nutjobs?

Once the ovaries have released an egg, there is a 24-hour window during which time the egg can be fertilized. However, sperm can remain viable inside a woman for as long as seven days. Therefore, it is possible to become pregnant even if you don't have sex during your most fertile time. For this reason, some couples using this method choose to abstain from sex prior to ovulation. Known as the post-ovulatory temperature method, with perfect use it can be as much as 99% effective.

http://www.epigee.org/guide/symptothermal.html

Effectiveness and acceptibility of the symptothermal method of natural family planning in Germany.
Frank-Herrmann P, Freundl G, Baur S, Bremme M, Döring GK, Godehardt EA, Sottong U.
Frauenklinik Städtisches Krankenhaus, Düsseldorf-Benrath, Germany.
Abstract
Throughout Germany, 851 women who were instructed in natural family planning participated in a prospective study. Of these, 255 women with 3174 cycles used only natural family planning for family planning and 274 women with 3995 cycles occasionally used barrier methods in the fertile phase. For natural family planning--only users, the Pearl rate for unplanned pregnancy was 2.3 and for mixed-method users 2.1.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1755469

For a contraceptive method to be rated highly efficient as the hormonal pill, it requires a method failure rate of less than one pregnancy per 100 women per year. Our method-effectiveness of 0.4% can be interpreted as one pregnancy occurring per 3250 cycles (assuming a 13 cycle year). We therefore maintain that the method effectiveness of the STM investigated in this study is comparable to the method effectiveness of modern contraceptive methods like oral contraceptives.

http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/22/5/1310

This is the first time that a large STM database has been established with sufficient detailed information on sexual behaviour. It enables the true method effectiveness for the STM to be calculated. Our results show that 0.4 unintended pregnancies occurred per 100 women years, if there was abstinence during the fertile time. In addition, our results showed that when barrier methods were used during the fertile time the rate of unintended pregnancies was not significantly different. The use-effectiveness of the method, i.e. the overall pregnancy rate was 1.8% after 13 cycles of use

ibid.

Idiot nutjobs indeed :rolleyes: I can see why a pre-marriage course wouldn't be of any use for people who already think they have all the answers.

tatli_lokma · 30-04-2010 04:48PM

Dataighom wrote: »

I still wonder how many of the other attendees went home and managed to get their girlfriend knocked up because they believed what they were told.

well, just to play devils advocate (or priests advocate

)....technically, in the eyes of the catholic church you should not be indulging in sex before marriage anyway, so that being the case you are quite unlikely to get your girlfriend knocked up!

Yes, personally I agree, that the catholic concept of the pill is bad, no sex before marriage and holier than thou preaching about marriage is a total waste of time - I would not go if you paid me, let alone me paying €150.
BUT it is a CATHOLIC service you are looking for. The catholic church condones use of contraception, sex before marriage, divorce etc etc. If you have a serious problem with that then get married elsewhere, otherwise as other posters have said suck it up. Its not like these concepts are new in the catholic church - thems the rules and have been for centuries!

bamboozle wrote:

its very simple in my mind, if you have an issue with the catholic church dont get married in one, if you have an issue with the church and feel you need the church wedding then suck it up and live with the associated costs.

+1

I have problems with these issues, therefore did not get married in a church, therefore did not need to pay €150 to be preached at by someone who has no prior understanding of me or my relationship.

It comes down to where you want your wedding - in a catholic church? then you have to tolerate the catholic rituals and requirements. If you are lucky enough to find a priest to forgoe this then great, otherwise just mark it down as one of those things that has to be done.

tatli_lokma · 30-04-2010 04:53PM

prinz wrote: »

Idiot nutjobs indeed :rolleyes: I can see why a pre-marriage course wouldn't be of any use for people who already think they have all the answers.

point accepted, but would you be advising this to your teenage daughter???

I agree with you - there is a wide range of NFP methods out there, and to dismiss them as 'religious nonsense' is in itself nonsense. However, personally, I wouldn't be disciplined enough to be doing with all that faffing around!
But as you rightly point out, these are accepted methods, and if you are a practicing catholic then you should be happy enough to accept this as other forms of contraception are not acceptable to the catholic ethos.

prinz · 30-04-2010 04:59PM

Cincikchick wrote: »

point accepted, but would you be advising this to your teenage daughter??? .

I would point out the pros and cons of all methods. Particularly the health risks associated with some forms which are all to often ignored.

Cincikchick wrote: »

But as you rightly point out, these are accepted methods, and if you are a practicing catholic then you should be happy enough to accept this as other forms of contraception are not acceptable to the catholic ethos.

Agreed. The irony is that IMO the people who go to the prep courses, get married in the church etc are the first ones to turn around and accuse the catholic church of hypocrisy. As you rightly pointed out, don't like it, don't go.

H8GHOTI · 02-06-2010 02:00PM

eoin wrote: »

There was another thread on this recently about the pre-marriage courses, and many of the people who had actually been on them (myself included) said that they were actually far more useful than they expected. In general, the people who wrote them off as a complete waste of time hadn't attended one themselves.

The one I went on was very light on the religious side of things. The only issue I had was the family planning module, but apart from that, we got something out of it (to our surprise). Even if you've been living together for a few years, there's a good chance it might raise some questions that you mightn't have discussed between yourselves.

If you don't mind, could you tell me what you did find useful & what questions it raised that you hadn't already discussed?

Eoin · 02-06-2010 03:06PM

Questions like how many children you both want, when you both want them and what you'll do if you find out you can't conceive naturally. Other topics like dealing with conflict etc.

It's a few years ago now so can't remember for definite, but along those sort of lines. Not that they were topics that had never come up, but they might have been ones that you hadn't gone into in detail. Some couples want kids immediately and incessantly bore everyone discuss it a lot, while other couples might only have talked about having kids somewhere down the line.

Reading my post, I realise that it sounds like really obvious stuff, but there was more to it.

Heineken Helen · 05-06-2010 11:53PM

bamboozle wrote: »

recently did the pre-marriage course in all hollows in drumcondra, it cost €150 from 9.30 to about 4.45, i found it useful enough and to be honest with so many silly costs attached to weddings like favours, presents for groomsmen and bridesmaids, buying a round for your guests for the toast etc etc etc i didnt think paying 150 for a pre-marriage course to be an issue as we're getting married in a catholic church.

its very simple in my mind, if you have an issue with the catholic church dont get married in one, if you have an issue with the church and feel you need the church wedding then suck it up and live with the associated costs.

Well said, I'm catholic and we'll be getting married in a catholic church. I don't agree with everything that is catholic but if something's necessary in order for us to get married, well I'll simply jump through that hoop

However, the oh is not at all happy about this thing... I'm just worried he may answer questions truthfully :eek::D

coolusername · 22-06-2010 04:00PM

Heineken Helen wrote: »

if something's necessary in order for us to get married, well I'll simply jump through that hoop

I agree with that

!

Although I do have one question (which may be a little stupid, but sure, anyway...!): Do the Pre-Marriage certificates have a validity period? For example, do you need to get married within a year of completing the course, or something?

newtoboards · 22-06-2010 04:31PM

coolusername wrote: »

I agree with that !

Although I do have one question (which may be a little stupid, but sure, anyway...!): Do the Pre-Marriage certificates have a validity period? For example, do you need to get married within a year of completing the course, or something?

No there's no validity period on them.

coolusername · 22-06-2010 07:26PM

Thanks newtoboards

!!

newtoboards · 22-06-2010 09:27PM

coolusername wrote: »

Thanks newtoboards !!

I got great value out of the course. We had a tough run of it in the months before the course and when we did it we remembered just how on the same page we were and it cheered us up. It showed that we could handle anything the was thrown at us. There was one couple who didn't turn up to the second day after a particularly heated "debate" while doing one of the exercises in the workbook. We were doing the exercise in couples but they just forgot they were still in a room full of people. I do wonder how some couples actually get that far without discussing kids, family dynamic, money etc.

prinz · 22-06-2010 09:30PM

newtoboards wrote: »

There was one couple who didn't turn up to the second day after a particularly heated "debate" while doing one of the exercises in the workbook. We were doing the exercise in couples but they just forgot they were still in a room full of people. I do wonder how some couples actually get that far without discussing kids, family dynamic, money etc.

Probably to same people who complain about the courses as a waste of time :pac:

newtoboards · 22-06-2010 09:37PM

prinz wrote: »

Probably to same people who complain about the courses as a waste of time :pac:

So true!

tinkerbell · 23-06-2010 02:18PM

prinz wrote: »

Probably to same people who complain about the courses as a waste of time :pac:

I totally disagree, my bf and I discuss everything but I still see the marriage course as a complete waste of time and a money making scam. Anything in the pre-marriage course, you should be discussing these issues with your OH anyway otherwise you shouldn't be getting married. A pre-marriage course isn't gonna fix things.

So what exact questions then do they ask you in the pre marriage course? I've heard lots of different stories, but all a bit vague.

prinz · 23-06-2010 02:36PM

tinkerbell wrote: »

I totally disagree, my bf and I discuss everything but I still see the marriage course as a complete waste of time and a money making scam.

You might discuss everything but as can be seen above that doesn't apply to everyone obviously.

tinkerbell wrote: »

Anything in the pre-marriage course, you should be discussing these issues with your OH anyway otherwise you shouldn't be getting married.

Agreed. Unfortunately there are many people who don't discuss the important things.

tinkerbell wrote: »

A pre-marriage course isn't gonna fix things.

It's not meant to fix things. It's meant to raise questions that you tackle as a couple.

tinkerbell wrote: »

So what exact questions then do they ask you in the pre marriage course? I've heard lots of different stories, but all a bit vague.

So you haven't actually done one but you're already writing it off as a waste of time and a money making scam? Put it this way a pre marriage course is usually a tiny, tiny fraction of the time and money put into a wedding tbh, but can actually be the first bit of time and money that go into actually working on or improving your relationship, rather than stressing about things that are at the end of the day really superfluous.

tinkerbell · 23-06-2010 04:38PM

prinz wrote: »

So you haven't actually done one but you're already writing it off as a waste of time and a money making scam? Put it this way a pre marriage course is usually a tiny, tiny fraction of the time and money put into a wedding tbh, but can actually be the first bit of time and money that go into actually working on or improving your relationship, rather than stressing about things that are at the end of the day really superfluous.

Yep - I've made it clear in this thread that I have never done one (I've said it before in previous posts here). I have heard lots of stories about what goes on in the pre-marriage course from friends who have done it and it's not for me. I do think it is a money-making scam, if you want to do it fine but it shouldn't have to be forced on you.

iguana · 23-06-2010 05:10PM

A few people have said they got something from the course but haven't said what. I'm curious as to exactly what that something was. What was it that was discussed on that weekend that had never occurred to you before? I can't honestly imagine what that might be.

prinz · 23-06-2010 05:18PM

iguana wrote: »

A few people have said they got something from the course but haven't said what. I'm curious as to exactly what that something was. What was it that was discussed on that weekend that had never occurred to you before? I can't honestly imagine what that might be.

Again if you look above at the post about the couple rowing you'll see there are people who have not properly discussed some issues. Having these issues raised beforehand is alot better for all concerned than waiting until after they're married.

Pre Marriage Course

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