The Union Council Thread

Ataxia · 06-03-2010 08:04PM

PrivateEye wrote: »

If the class has no rep, I don't think its cheeky Ataxia. In the event of something like another industrial action on campus say, it's good to have people like yourself there.

Plus, the class has no representation if they need it in future, which is terrible.

All valid points. I'll get onto it Monday (for reals this time).

leopoldbloom · 06-03-2010 09:09PM

CnaG wrote: »

Hmm, what else might be a good idea?

How about trying to make sure next year's election count is open to anyone who wants to go? Or might it be better to leave that to next year's crew?

Don't worry about that, tis on my to-do list.

And Ataxia, if your class has no rep just email Grace at returningofficer@nuimsu.com and she'll sign you up.

AE

Duddy · 07-03-2010 01:19AM

Ataxia wrote: »

Personally, I think the minutes from Union Council should be sent out via the all-students mailing list, for accountability.

Deadly idea.
Its a rather obvious problem tbh, strange it hasnt been dealt with before.
Noones going to be bothered reading the minutes off the noticeboard beside the Speakeasy (if they've done that this year?) and a lot of people don't even know they have a rep, need a rep, or can be a rep.
Addresses a lot of issues, I'll vote with gusto!

Should pass too, once the "I'm arguing just for the sake of arguing" people are done.

07-03-2010 01:36PM

Bout the class rep system. I had no idea what to do when I got class rep, so I went along to Union Council, as I thought this was part of the rep job per say. I agree completely that there needs to be clearer information available.
On the minutes, it would not take long to get them published on the all students email, they can send out normal all students emails about drinking festivals, why not about what the class reps are doing for them?
I find it hard to communicate with the class, as when I do I get a lot of funny looks and very little feed back! Hopefully this will get better in second year (maybe!)

PrivateEye · 09-03-2010 08:33PM

We got a talk today from two students (Theology and Philosophy if I remember right..) on how we need to rename S.H.A.G week and also how we sholudn't be handing out condoms in the 'S.H.A.G bags' and all the rest. Liz had tried to contact a group before S.H.A.G week who promote abstenince but they didn't get back in a hurry (Or eh...at all) so it was hardly the Unions fault. All in all it seems there will be 'more information' for people who don't want to get in on the fun and ride everyone and everything next year, but We Shall Not Be Moved on the johnnys front.

Beyond that, the chalk came up (It's annoying everyone, going on to C&Socs), we got our first USI updates and a great big row opened up over something I thought was a small deal (One member of Council proposed that we get the Union to follow some other Unions internationally and sign the Cairo Declaration, essentially a condemnation of Israels role in Palestine. It passed, by a bit, but apparently is likely to be overruled by the Guardianship)

Ataxia · 09-03-2010 08:38PM

**** that, I'd be pushing for a sex-positive SHAG Week if I were in a position where anyone took my opinions seriously.

Ataxia · 09-03-2010 08:39PM

Btw, are the minutes going out over the all-students email now?

PrivateEye · 09-03-2010 08:39PM

Ataxia, there is ONE U.C left, no reason not to join at this rate.

You never know when christians will just show up, or when you have to defend small occupied territories.

Btw, are the minutes going out over the all-students email now?

Yep, pretty sure that was said at the end. It was a bizarre one this month, a bizarre one.

Ataxia · 09-03-2010 08:47PM

PrivateEye wrote: »

Ataxia, there is ONE U.C left, no reason not to join at this rate.

You never know when christians will just show up, or when you have to defend small occupied territories.

Yep, pretty sure that was said at the end. It was a bizarre one this month, a bizarre one.

Ok, fine, you badgered me into it. *mutters to self*

PrivateEye · 09-03-2010 08:52PM

Something in the water today though, that was by no means a regular U.C

Noones going to be bothered reading the minutes off the noticeboard beside the Speakeasy (if they've done that this year?)

Never even knew they were up there at all. Hopefully mailing them out will work, lets wait and see.

Duddy · 10-03-2010 01:59AM

I CAN'T BELIEVE i missed this month's UC, was looking forward to it! and it sounded fun too! So next UC is the last one?

Did the Finance Officer do the price comparison thing yet?

CnaG · 10-03-2010 02:20AM

It wasn't much fun, next UC is the last one, and no, Finance hasn't done that yet.

Minutes anyone?

CnaG · 10-03-2010 02:21AM

Minutes March Union Council (not official minutes)

Abstract: President’s report (USI, feedback forms, charity week), offense taken over SHAG week promotional material and condoms, NUIMSU to sign the Cairo Declaration (an endorsement of boycotting, divesting and sanctioning Israel), AOB.

President’s report

First USI update. USI are currently working on the following:

- Nitelink campaign – campaigning for reinstatement of nightlink services or the establishment of a company which runs nightlink buses themselves
- The Equality conference in UCC – two Maynooth students in attendance, Mary of Amnesty, Fiach of LGBT.
- Int. Women’s day – one of their officers gave a talk
- Lobbying of the Oireachtas over the grant system (re. the student support bill which will resolve many student grant difficulties)
- The Bolgnia process – The USI president Peter Mannion to represent Irish students in Europe on standardising standards of education across Europe to make results more transferable.
- SHAG weeks nationwide
- Helping Welfare officers generally.

USI national congress coming soon, Brian will let us know when.

Other stuff in President’s report:
Academic council – Brian reported on his work as the student representative on a sub-committee of a sub-committee of the Teaching and Learning Council. They’ve been working on the feedback forms we submit at the end of each semester – where do they go? At the moment, to the head of department, when the recommendations are not necessarily taken onboard and the modules may not be fixed. Next year there will be two forms – one going to the relevant department, the other a generic one about the course going to higher levels of the university to make sure changes recommended are (implemented? Taken into serious consideration?)

Election – Brian offered his congratulations to the Exec elect.

Charity week – “quite successful”. Gathering overall a success, even though numbers weren’t what was anticipated and the event most probably made a loss. Sees it as a long term project.

Apologised for not sending out an email to all students regarding the student services charge (i.e. the missing €700 of the registration fee). Says will do so tomorrow of the next day.

Questions about the president’s report:
Dropping the prices of tickets for the gathering – many students would have liked to have gone, but didn’t want to spend €35 on a ticket. Should the SU have cut their losses and dropped the price? That way more tickets would have been sold and the event may not have made a loss.

- But apparently if the ticket prices had been lower, the SU couldn’t have booked the acts they did. So it’s a trade-off. In any case, it takes a few years for an event to build up a reputation, so hoping next year will be a bigger success – particularly as the exec will be working on it from July for 2011, while this year’s exec only had three months.

Concern raised about drinking at the Gathering. Because booze expensive inside, people coming out, drinking cans outside and down the village, going back in then. Potential for problems in future years highlighted

-Basically nothing the SU can do about the price of booze inside the Gathering, as the event sponsored by Heineken, and they only had a bar license so can’t sell cans...

Question on Bolgnia process – anything to do with ‘grade inflation’
-Brian not sure, hasn’t read up on grade inflation yet. Will do though, and SU UC/students will be consulted before the SU takes a position on it.

Condoms, promiscuity and pornographic images on promotional leaflets:

Two students addressed UC about SHAG week. They
- didn’t like the name of it, apparently because its abbreviated version promotes promiscuity
-said the images used on SHAG week posters also, apparently, promote promiscuity
- didn’t like that information on abstinence and chastity and the emotional side of sex wasn’t included in with other informational material in the SHAG packs
- were offended by the condoms included in the SHAG packs

After a long discussion of each of these points, including that chastity promoting groups had been invited to take part in SHAG week but had not replied, the conversation centred particularly the condoms in the SHAG packs point. Eventually a motion was passed that next year, more information be included in the SHAG packs.

The Cairo Declaration
It was proposed that NUIM SU sign the Cairo Declaration (the text of which can be found here: http://www.petitiononline.com/CDofGFM1/petition.html) for humanitarian reasons. It is (very) basically a pledge to the international community to boycott, divest and sanction Israel for its actions against Palestine.

Concerns were raised that signing this petition would interfere with the fact that the NUIM SU is meant to be a non-political organisation, and might go against the SU constitution. There was some heated discussion. It was pointed out that the declaration had cross-party support, and also the support of ICTU and other unions. It was pointed out that the Maynooth SU is not ICTU, or any of the other unions and that it ought to represent student concerns.

A motion was passed (by a narrow margin) that the NUIM SU would put its name to the declaration pending approval by the constitutional review committee.

AOB
Issue of dangerous driving raised. Drivers driving on the path between John Hume and the Arts block show little regard for pedestrians and cyclists, endangering both. Call to stop vehicles driving in this area between 8.30 am and 6pm (excepting people who need to use disability parking).

Cars parking beside the footbridge. Parking dangerously close to the pedestrian crossing bump, sometimes on it, restricting vision of people and cyclists trying to cross. Also, cars parking in cycle lanes on campus, have been doing so for 3 years now.

It was noted in the minutes that a complaint had been made (not by Gemma) about the SU referendum on joining the USI taking place 2 days after it should have, constitutionally.

The men’s jacks in the SU. Apparently little to no improvement since last month (although Ents officer assured me that the doors had been fixed and there is now toilet paper)

Chalk graffiti. Has to stop. Main offenders are the Spotlight society. Lydia is going to bring it up in Clubs and Socs.

Finally, suggested that the minutes of all UC meetings be sent to allstudentbounces mailing list.

End UC

10-03-2010 11:06AM

Thanks for the minutes!
It was a very confusing union council, there was a wierd atmosphere in the room or something. I don't know what it was but for some reason it made me feel quite nervous!

Interesting debates raised, especially by the two students about SHAG week. I agree where the posters are concerned. Sure they are eye catching but I think they were very immature.

It will be interesting to see what comes of the Cairo Declaration from the Guardianship.

CnaG · 10-03-2010 02:29PM

Re. weird atmosphere - I reckon it was down to all the reps being hungry because no-one organised free lunch for us

No really, I thought so too. A lot of familiar faces were missing from the crowd so that probably didn't help. And there was no projector, which made the room darker.... The abstinence and Cairo motions were quite unusual as well... I don't know. Hopefully next month (the last UC of the year) it'll be better.

10-03-2010 05:41PM

It was quite empty. That could be it. Peculiar!

Pajoe89 · 12-03-2010 02:01AM

As one of the 3rd year History Reps, I find it quite bizzare that there seems to be so many. I have been at every UC meeting whether I was sick or busy and the fact some of them have only started to turn up in the last two weeks is beginning to irritate me a little bit. This is especially the case when they tend to make irrational statements and quote things in the constitution that aren't there. Is it the case that if a rep has not attended x amount of meetings is there position no forfeited? I think a look at who should be there and who should not is a key to a well run council. This should be appplied to any class or faculty. The fact that so many reps are from one class is confusing to the students they represent. I for one will be making an announcement that I am one of them in my next class. Just to clarify the matter. :rolleyes:

Further still I think the exec should openly encourage the positions of class reps at the start of each year. The fact such a class like 3rd English is without one is crazy to say the least.

Ataxia · 12-03-2010 02:42PM

I have never seen the Exec come round to my class at all looking for class reps.

princess_calico · 12-03-2010 05:56PM

CnaG wrote: »

Re. weird atmosphere - I reckon it was down to all the reps being hungry because no-one organised free lunch for us

Me was not happy

:mad:

princess_calico · 12-03-2010 05:57PM

Ataxia wrote: »

I have never seen the Exec come round to my class at all looking for class reps.

AFAIK they came around at the start of the year, but I'm not sure. Personally no one has ever come to my classes, and the class reps were supposed to have been assigned at around the same time as 1st year rep and postgrad rep.

Squaw Crow · 16-03-2010 08:55PM

Jayo4Prez wrote: »

Unfortunately, there are three main weaknesses in the Class Rep System, some of which are mentioned already.

1. Commuting Student dont care so they don't interact. They simply adapt to whatever situations that they have to adapt to. Thus they don't feel the need to engage in the Union.

2. Reps are not engaged by their constituents.

3. As they are not engaged, Reps (and I am as guilty of this as anyone) use their own political and value systems to make whatever calls they hae to make which may not be representative of the members of their class.

The slow speed at which the Returning Office publishes minutes and the limited amount of people who have access to them is not great either.

The solutions are simple.

1. A complete minutes should be availible on the S.U. website 48 hours after U.C. and those who want to criticise or evaluate their Reps' performance can then do so.

2. A new Commuter Rep should be brought in as should a new Mature Rep as these are significant enough minorities in the college to warrant the creation of such positions.

3. Finally, there should be a more accessible executive to make sure that the decisions and mandates that are agreed upon are ACTED UPON!!!!!!

Surely if one group of quote "minority" students are allowed, then there should be provisions made for other minority students. On the other hand the argument stands that all students whether they are grouped as minority or majority have the right to run for and vote in elections - this means that their concerns should be raised as part of the elected class reps', sabbats', officers' etc . duty to the electorate.

Jayo4Prez · 17-03-2010 01:37AM

Squaw Crow wrote: »

Surely if one group of quote "minority" students are allowed, then there should be provisions made for other minority students. On the other hand the argument stands that all students whether they are grouped as minority or majority have the right to run for and vote in elections - this means that their concerns should be raised as part of the elected class reps', sabbats', officers' etc . duty to the electorate.

The key is, what constitutes a minority. For example, we have one of the highest LGBT student ratios in the country; does that not mean they deserve one. Same with matures.

While all have a right to run, if you have kids and a family, you simply are not going to do it as fast as someone like me with little or no responsibilities as a single guy with no bills to pay and no kids to look after.

Commuters dont vote. They dont run, particularly for executive positions, and they cant contribute to student life. There are 7,500 voters in Maynooth. 1,995 voted in the Presidential election. 60 voted in the St Pats Election!!!!!!! There are many sections of the student body who dont care about the future of the Union because the Union does not play an active part in their lives. Thus, a few can go to UC and do what they like without being held accountable by their class for their votes.

Rozabeez · 17-03-2010 01:43AM

I'm a commuter. I vote. I moderate a forum dedicated to NUIM. I think I contribute to student life.

CnaG · 18-03-2010 01:24AM

all students whether they are grouped as minority or majority have the right to run for and vote in elections - this means that their concerns should be raised as part of the elected class reps', sabbats', officers' etc . duty to the electorate

Technically yes they should, but I have to say I didn't see, for example, many 'mature student' issues addressed during the various campaigns. Like the price of the creche on campus. Is that really €100 a week?!?

I do actually get where Jason is coming from on this - in all likelihood mature students (or at least those with mortgage and possibly family) aren't going to have the same amount of time to run for a sabbat or other exec position. So I do think there should be a mature student rep on the exec (I know there's one on the Welfare committee but am I wrong in thinking that met what, once or twice this year?)

However, I do somewhat resent the implication that commuters can't contribute to student life. I'm a commuter too - I'd like to think I contribute a bit... Part of it is how much you want to be involved I suppose. And maybe how far you have to commute.

As for the accountability bit - again Jason is kind of right. There's little or no accountability between reps and constituents, but then again it's hard to hold someone to account if you don't know who they are or what they are meant to be doing, and I'm not sure very many students know these things about their reps (if they have one).

Jayo4Prez · 19-03-2010 03:47AM

Rozabeez wrote: »

I'm a commuter. I vote. I moderate a forum dedicated to NUIM. I think I contribute to student life.

The stats suggest that you are one of the few though, Rosabeez.

Jayo4Prez · 19-03-2010 03:59AM

However, I do somewhat resent the implication that commuters can't contribute to student life. I'm a commuter too - I'd like to think I contribute a bit... Part of it is how much you want to be involved I suppose. And maybe how far you have to commute.

From my experience, commuters tend not to contribute as much as those who live around the area to student life. By the way, that it not always because they couldn't be bothered, but simply because they are up early, in college, go to lectures, do whatever assignments they have to do, and go home and aren't home until maybe 7 or even 8 in the evening. Forgive me if I seem presumptious, but if you are putting in a shift like that, you wont be eager to put more time in.

Plus, while the Union can help (through having a Rep as, like matures, Commuters face different challenges when compared with students who live in Maynooth), if you dont have that much time to yourself, then you wont see the help that the Union can and is providing and then you get less than 30% turnout in elections.

Again, communication and a pro-active approach is what is required, rather than making assumptions, which, it could be argued, I have made here. However, I dont think that I am 100 miles off.

CnaG · 21-03-2010 10:25PM

Has anyone else seen this blog post about union council, and what do we think?

http://studentobserverireland.blogspot.com/2010/03/union-divided-inside-union-council.html

Duddy · 24-03-2010 06:12PM

What are peoples opinions on Union Involvement in Pride Week?

CnaG · 24-03-2010 09:38PM

Has the union been involved in Pride week? I went on the pride parade yesterday, and when outside the SU saw our current Welfare officer hurry past without even acknowledging us... was not best impressed. Even though it was probably her lunch break, it would have been nice if she'd even given an nod and a smile. Whatever. Maybe she didn't see us.

Why, what do you think of Union involvement in pride week?

T_G_B · 24-03-2010 10:38PM

CnaG wrote: »

Has anyone else seen this blog post about union council, and what do we think?

http://studentobserverireland.blogspot.com/2010/03/union-divided-inside-union-council.html

I think it was a good message at the core, but the guy, Juvenal, got a bit carried away. The point was that the people who argued against signing on the grounds that it was seen as political affiliation, rather than a humanitarian issue, were being a bit ridiculous because it wasn't about which side of the Israel/Palestine conflict people fell on,it was regarding what had already been identified as Human Rights violations.

People got way too bogged down in two things in his article. Firstly, the food thing. THE ARTICLE WASN'T ABOUT THE FOOD. Leave it be. He made a joke that didn't pan out very well, so what? Secondly, Israel/Palestine. Not about that either. He was questioning whether the Council should call foul if an issue DOES get political.

Either way, the guy is just finding his feet at this. Obviously he was very passionate about it, and got a little carried away, that's all. Calm down people.

The Union Council Thread

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