The Union Council Thread

Duddy

Given our incoming VP Comms & Devs excellent idea of making Boards.ie an official channel...here's a Union Council Thread.

The vast majority of Class Reps aren't approached by anyone in their class,either because they don't know or don't care - one of the key failures of the class rep system. Here, however, complaints and ideas can weighed up and talked about before going to UC about it:)

Hopefully we'll be able to post the upcoming Agendas too:)

Just an idea, what do people think?

banquo

I think it's a great idea for a thread!

You're just full of them this week, Ciaran

Duddy

Boredom breeds creativity!

PrivateEye

It needs to be every two weeks I think.

We run overtime at every meeting, things get rushed and abandoned, and nothing gets followed up as lets be honest..... it's a long, long time between meetings anyway.

I mail my 'constituents' (:pac:) after Councils, and tend to get responses and ideas from them either that way or in person.

declan06

PrivateEye wrote: »

It needs to be every two weeks I think.

We run overtime at every meeting, things get rushed and abandoned, and nothing gets followed up as lets be honest..... it's a long, long time between meetings anyway.

I mail my 'constituents' (:pac:) after Councils, and tend to get responses and ideas from them either that way or in person.

We already have problems getting quorum, I don't think we can have it more often. I think a lot of these issues could be resolved through a thread like this though.

banquo

/ports entire Union onto boards.ie

funky penguin

Get them to subscribe to this thread. Seriously.

The past few weeks have proven the popularity of boards on the NUIM campus. I met SO many boardsies during the campaign it was a little scary. Plus there are crap loads of lurkers (*waves*), one of which I found out today is a friend of mine.

One person finding out something important through this medium could, by word of mouth, become 10 time that.

Its a brilliant tool for communication when used correctly.

PS thanks for the EPIC programme you made today for our charity concert.

PrivateEye

We already have problems getting quorum, I don't think we can have it more often

I think the reason we have problems getting quorum is people don't feel a part of the UC really, as it meets so infrequently. If you look at the UCD model (Granted, its a MUCH larger UC) where they have a meeting every two weeks, people stay involved.

It's so easy to just drop out of going to UCs in Maynooth, one a month is nowhere near enough and people don't feel motivated to go if its so infrequent. Like I said earlier, something pushed back a month will probably never happen.

At the very least, if it has to be one a month, it should be longer than it currently is. We rush through things like the cleaners are going to kick us out or something.

A good Union Council is a core part of the democratic structure of any Student Union, so it has to work.

banquo

Somewhere more central - i.e. not the Venue, which is way out of the way - would help too, I think.

Even a room in JH would make the difference.

CnaG

I don't know Banquo, last year UCs were usually held in John Hume and it didn't make much of a difference to attendance. Not that I disagree that The Venue is a pretty awful well, venue. You can hardly hear people who aren't standing speaking, mainly because of the noise levels outside. In that sense, I think UC should be moved back to JH. However, they do give class reps food now from the SU bar, so that's nice (no veggie option though, I noticed... soup or pasta instead of chips would be nice too!)

I agree with Privateeye, a good classrep system is key to a healthy, engaged union. And could help the union expand from being mainly a service and entertainment provider to representing broader student concerns... both to university administration and nationally in the USI. That's not to say they don't represent at the moment, but a better, bigger and more frequent meeting of UC could only improve representation. It would just make sure stuff discussed in UC gets addressed. As Privateeye said, stuff delayed by a month (while it goes to the guardianship or whatever) tends to be forgotten about in the intervening month, and then we have to re-discuss it in the next UC, which gets very tiresome. Fortnightly meetings would mean the issue is still fresh in the memory of the class reps and could be passed (or rejected) quickly.

Attendance is also an issue. Last year at least it dwindled in the second semester. I think we could call it 'class rep burnout' - to avoid it, and also tackle the complete lack of accountability between class reps and their constituents, I also think class reps should be elected twice a year - once at the beginning of each semster. That way class reps who are doing a good job and like being a class-rep can stand for re-election, and those who aren't/don't either don't have to stand, or can be dispatched of. The current system of "deeming class reps to have resigned if they miss two consecutive union councils" not only sounds like it was thought of in the 18th century, but it doesn't work. How many class reps have been deemed to have resigned in the last few years by returning officers? Very, very few if any at all, I would think.

Minutes of union council need to be made available online somewhere, anywhere. The last minutes from UC on the SU website date to like November 08 or something daft like that. So the backlog of minutes need to be posted. That way it'll be easier for class reps to check if something they brought up at the last council was addressed, and also (if they're a politics nerd like me) to look at the minutes from previous years and see what they thought needed to be done, and if that was done etc.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think there was class rep training this year? It's something which I think should be pushed next year. Even just half an hour of 'here's how to engage with your classmates' (via email, over facebook, over moodle, in person, etc.) rather than the 'here is what UC is and these are a list of your duties' as we got last year (08/09). I would be more than happy to help next year's exec design training for classreps, having been one for two years at this point. I'll even help with the actual training if I'm still in the country come October!

I do think the new exec this year is in a stronger position going in than the last few. Voting was up what, 5, 7% this year in the elections? And hopefully with Banquo in charge of comms the SU will finally embrace tech-o-no-lo-gy like the internet forums promised

And I'm thinking John Hughes' private dining suite in the new canteen might be a nice venue for Union Council, once it's built?

princess_calico

*like*

This is a great idea! UC really should be more often and longer. It gets so rushed that nothing is dealt with properly!

banquo

Wtf is technology?

Furthermore, I agree with nearly everything CnaG said.

CnaG

banquo wrote: »

Wtf is technology?

Furthermore, I agree with nearly everything CnaG said.

Just because I'm a glass half empty type of person, what didn't you agree with :cool:

Seren_

How do you actually get to become a class rep? I don't think I've ever heard it mentioned in either of my subjects.... I know 3rd year English definitely doesn't have one because people were giving out about it on moodle :pac:

CnaG

You get a form from the SU offices, which ten people in your class need to sign, then return it to the offices. Et voila - you are a class rep.

However, that's meant to happen in October. The idea is anyone who wants to be a classrep for a certain class sends in a form, then either they get the position, or when more people send in forms than the class can have reps a member of the exec or the returning officer or any other SU official type person comes to your class and holds an election.

In practice, I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened in 3rd history for example, as I think we have 4 or 5 reps when we're only meant to have 3...

So basically, if there's someone in 3rd english interested in being a class rep, then they should get a form and talk to Brian Murphy.

CnaG

Something which tends to confuse is when individual departments have 'department reps' who represent student concerns at departmental meetings. Sometimes these same people go to union council (as in, they are a departmental rep and a class rep) but then, if it isn't made clear that there's a difference, other students might not go forward for class rep... leaving the class without a class rep.

^^ re-reading, that's pretty convoluted. But I hope I got the point across

Jayo4Prez

Unfortunately, there are three main weaknesses in the Class Rep System, some of which are mentioned already.

1. Commuting Student dont care so they don't interact. They simply adapt to whatever situations that they have to adapt to. Thus they don't feel the need to engage in the Union.

2. Reps are not engaged by their constituents.

3. As they are not engaged, Reps (and I am as guilty of this as anyone) use their own political and value systems to make whatever calls they hae to make which may not be representative of the members of their class.

The slow speed at which the Returning Office publishes minutes and the limited amount of people who have access to them is not great either.

The solutions are simple.

1. A complete minutes should be availible on the S.U. website 48 hours after U.C. and those who want to criticise or evaluate their Reps' performance can then do so.

2. A new Commuter Rep should be brought in as should a new Mature Rep as these are significant enough minorities in the college to warrant the creation of such positions.

3. Finally, there should be a more accessible executive to make sure that the decisions and mandates that are agreed upon are ACTED UPON!!!!!!

Duddy

Hi Guys,

I know this is a late one going out...but I've been up to my eyeballs lately but next UC is on the 9th of March (Next Tuesday) @ 1:30 - 2:30 in the venue...if you have anything you would like to put on the agenda you have till 5pm Monday to e-mail me.


Thanks see you then

Grace

Everyone put thur political hats on!:)

circa1990

Duddy wrote: »

Everyone put thur political hats on!:)

have to admit this annoyed the crap out of me as once again it clashes with my compulsory history tutorial and also happens to be right in the middle of both politics week and pride week... well done!:rolleyes:

Ataxia

Personally, I think the minutes from Union Council should be sent out via the all-students mailing list, for accountability.

CnaG

Ataxia wrote: »

Personally, I think the minutes from Union Council should be sent out via the all-students mailing list, for accountability.

Good idea, I'll second that!

(no seriously, I'll second it if you propose it on Tuesday )

Ataxia

CnaG wrote: »

Good idea, I'll second that!

(no seriously, I'll second it if you propose it on Tuesday )

I'm not on UC. I never got round to filling my nomination slip.

banquo

Anarchy!

PrivateEye

^ Ataxia, Get onto it for god sake, Council is only as good as the people on it.

Do it Monday even! Easy.

banquo

Ataxia wrote: »

Personally, I think the minutes from Union Council should be sent out via the all-students mailing list, for accountability.

Make a list of good ideas, people. Seriously.

I'll propose it on Tuesday.

Ataxia

PrivateEye wrote: »

^ Ataxia, Get onto it for god sake, Council is only as good as the people on it.

Do it Monday even! Easy.

I think it would be a bit cheeky going up to people in my class (who haven't seen me in two weeks) and asking them to sign my nomination slip. Wouldn't feel right. I'll get on it next year from the start, though.

CnaG

Hmm, what else might be a good idea?

How about trying to make sure next year's election count is open to anyone who wants to go? Or might it be better to leave that to next year's crew?

CnaG

Also, should be prepared to head off that constiutional challenge to the USI referendum. It might not be brought up, but no harm having arguments ready anyway...

Ataxia

CnaG wrote: »

Hmm, what else might be a good idea?

How about trying to make sure next year's election count is open to anyone who wants to go? Or might it be better to leave that to next year's crew?

I say sort it out now, while we remember.

PrivateEye

If the class has no rep, I don't think its cheeky Ataxia. In the event of something like another industrial action on campus say, it's good to have people like yourself there.

Plus, the class has no representation if they need it in future, which is terrible.

Ataxia

CnaG wrote: »

Also, should be prepared to head off that constiutional challenge to the USI referendum. It might not be brought up, but no harm having arguments ready anyway...

That's over with, the guardianship met and decided.

(Unless Gemma wants to take it to the high court.)

Ataxia

PrivateEye wrote: »

If the class has no rep, I don't think its cheeky Ataxia. In the event of something like another industrial action on campus say, it's good to have people like yourself there.

Plus, the class has no representation if they need it in future, which is terrible.

All valid points. I'll get onto it Monday (for reals this time).

leopoldbloom

CnaG wrote: »

Hmm, what else might be a good idea?

How about trying to make sure next year's election count is open to anyone who wants to go? Or might it be better to leave that to next year's crew?

Don't worry about that, tis on my to-do list.

And Ataxia, if your class has no rep just email Grace at returningofficer@nuimsu.com and she'll sign you up.

AE

Duddy

Ataxia wrote: »

Personally, I think the minutes from Union Council should be sent out via the all-students mailing list, for accountability.

Deadly idea.
Its a rather obvious problem tbh, strange it hasnt been dealt with before.
Noones going to be bothered reading the minutes off the noticeboard beside the Speakeasy (if they've done that this year?) and a lot of people don't even know they have a rep, need a rep, or can be a rep.
Addresses a lot of issues, I'll vote with gusto!

Should pass too, once the "I'm arguing just for the sake of arguing" people are done.

Ms. Koi

Bout the class rep system. I had no idea what to do when I got class rep, so I went along to Union Council, as I thought this was part of the rep job per say. I agree completely that there needs to be clearer information available.
On the minutes, it would not take long to get them published on the all students email, they can send out normal all students emails about drinking festivals, why not about what the class reps are doing for them?
I find it hard to communicate with the class, as when I do I get a lot of funny looks and very little feed back! Hopefully this will get better in second year (maybe!)

PrivateEye

We got a talk today from two students (Theology and Philosophy if I remember right..) on how we need to rename S.H.A.G week and also how we sholudn't be handing out condoms in the 'S.H.A.G bags' and all the rest. Liz had tried to contact a group before S.H.A.G week who promote abstenince but they didn't get back in a hurry (Or eh...at all) so it was hardly the Unions fault. All in all it seems there will be 'more information' for people who don't want to get in on the fun and ride everyone and everything next year, but We Shall Not Be Moved on the johnnys front.

Beyond that, the chalk came up (It's annoying everyone, going on to C&Socs), we got our first USI updates and a great big row opened up over something I thought was a small deal (One member of Council proposed that we get the Union to follow some other Unions internationally and sign the Cairo Declaration, essentially a condemnation of Israels role in Palestine. It passed, by a bit, but apparently is likely to be overruled by the Guardianship)

Ataxia

**** that, I'd be pushing for a sex-positive SHAG Week if I were in a position where anyone took my opinions seriously.

Ataxia

Btw, are the minutes going out over the all-students email now?

PrivateEye

Ataxia, there is ONE U.C left, no reason not to join at this rate.

You never know when christians will just show up, or when you have to defend small occupied territories.

Btw, are the minutes going out over the all-students email now?

Yep, pretty sure that was said at the end. It was a bizarre one this month, a bizarre one.

Ataxia

PrivateEye wrote: »

Ataxia, there is ONE U.C left, no reason not to join at this rate.

You never know when christians will just show up, or when you have to defend small occupied territories.



Yep, pretty sure that was said at the end. It was a bizarre one this month, a bizarre one.

Ok, fine, you badgered me into it. *mutters to self*

PrivateEye

Something in the water today though, that was by no means a regular U.C

Noones going to be bothered reading the minutes off the noticeboard beside the Speakeasy (if they've done that this year?)

Never even knew they were up there at all. Hopefully mailing them out will work, lets wait and see.

Duddy

I CAN'T BELIEVE i missed this month's UC, was looking forward to it! and it sounded fun too! So next UC is the last one?

Did the Finance Officer do the price comparison thing yet?

CnaG

It wasn't much fun, next UC is the last one, and no, Finance hasn't done that yet.

Minutes anyone?

CnaG

Minutes March Union Council (not official minutes)

Abstract: President’s report (USI, feedback forms, charity week), offense taken over SHAG week promotional material and condoms, NUIMSU to sign the Cairo Declaration (an endorsement of boycotting, divesting and sanctioning Israel), AOB.



President’s report

First USI update. USI are currently working on the following:

- Nitelink campaign – campaigning for reinstatement of nightlink services or the establishment of a company which runs nightlink buses themselves
- The Equality conference in UCC – two Maynooth students in attendance, Mary of Amnesty, Fiach of LGBT.
- Int. Women’s day – one of their officers gave a talk
- Lobbying of the Oireachtas over the grant system (re. the student support bill which will resolve many student grant difficulties)
- The Bolgnia process – The USI president Peter Mannion to represent Irish students in Europe on standardising standards of education across Europe to make results more transferable.
- SHAG weeks nationwide
- Helping Welfare officers generally.

USI national congress coming soon, Brian will let us know when.

Other stuff in President’s report:
Academic council – Brian reported on his work as the student representative on a sub-committee of a sub-committee of the Teaching and Learning Council. They’ve been working on the feedback forms we submit at the end of each semester – where do they go? At the moment, to the head of department, when the recommendations are not necessarily taken onboard and the modules may not be fixed. Next year there will be two forms – one going to the relevant department, the other a generic one about the course going to higher levels of the university to make sure changes recommended are (implemented? Taken into serious consideration?)

Election – Brian offered his congratulations to the Exec elect.

Charity week – “quite successful”. Gathering overall a success, even though numbers weren’t what was anticipated and the event most probably made a loss. Sees it as a long term project.

Apologised for not sending out an email to all students regarding the student services charge (i.e. the missing €700 of the registration fee). Says will do so tomorrow of the next day.

Questions about the president’s report:
Dropping the prices of tickets for the gathering – many students would have liked to have gone, but didn’t want to spend €35 on a ticket. Should the SU have cut their losses and dropped the price? That way more tickets would have been sold and the event may not have made a loss.

- But apparently if the ticket prices had been lower, the SU couldn’t have booked the acts they did. So it’s a trade-off. In any case, it takes a few years for an event to build up a reputation, so hoping next year will be a bigger success – particularly as the exec will be working on it from July for 2011, while this year’s exec only had three months.

Concern raised about drinking at the Gathering. Because booze expensive inside, people coming out, drinking cans outside and down the village, going back in then. Potential for problems in future years highlighted

-Basically nothing the SU can do about the price of booze inside the Gathering, as the event sponsored by Heineken, and they only had a bar license so can’t sell cans...

Question on Bolgnia process – anything to do with ‘grade inflation’
-Brian not sure, hasn’t read up on grade inflation yet. Will do though, and SU UC/students will be consulted before the SU takes a position on it.



Condoms, promiscuity and pornographic images on promotional leaflets:

Two students addressed UC about SHAG week. They
- didn’t like the name of it, apparently because its abbreviated version promotes promiscuity
-said the images used on SHAG week posters also, apparently, promote promiscuity
- didn’t like that information on abstinence and chastity and the emotional side of sex wasn’t included in with other informational material in the SHAG packs
- were offended by the condoms included in the SHAG packs

After a long discussion of each of these points, including that chastity promoting groups had been invited to take part in SHAG week but had not replied, the conversation centred particularly the condoms in the SHAG packs point. Eventually a motion was passed that next year, more information be included in the SHAG packs.



The Cairo Declaration
It was proposed that NUIM SU sign the Cairo Declaration (the text of which can be found here: http://www.petitiononline.com/CDofGFM1/petition.html) for humanitarian reasons. It is (very) basically a pledge to the international community to boycott, divest and sanction Israel for its actions against Palestine.

Concerns were raised that signing this petition would interfere with the fact that the NUIM SU is meant to be a non-political organisation, and might go against the SU constitution. There was some heated discussion. It was pointed out that the declaration had cross-party support, and also the support of ICTU and other unions. It was pointed out that the Maynooth SU is not ICTU, or any of the other unions and that it ought to represent student concerns.

A motion was passed (by a narrow margin) that the NUIM SU would put its name to the declaration pending approval by the constitutional review committee.



AOB
Issue of dangerous driving raised. Drivers driving on the path between John Hume and the Arts block show little regard for pedestrians and cyclists, endangering both. Call to stop vehicles driving in this area between 8.30 am and 6pm (excepting people who need to use disability parking).

Cars parking beside the footbridge. Parking dangerously close to the pedestrian crossing bump, sometimes on it, restricting vision of people and cyclists trying to cross. Also, cars parking in cycle lanes on campus, have been doing so for 3 years now.

It was noted in the minutes that a complaint had been made (not by Gemma) about the SU referendum on joining the USI taking place 2 days after it should have, constitutionally.

The men’s jacks in the SU. Apparently little to no improvement since last month (although Ents officer assured me that the doors had been fixed and there is now toilet paper)

Chalk graffiti. Has to stop. Main offenders are the Spotlight society. Lydia is going to bring it up in Clubs and Socs.

Finally, suggested that the minutes of all UC meetings be sent to allstudentbounces mailing list.


End UC

Ms. Koi

Thanks for the minutes!
It was a very confusing union council, there was a wierd atmosphere in the room or something. I don't know what it was but for some reason it made me feel quite nervous!


Interesting debates raised, especially by the two students about SHAG week. I agree where the posters are concerned. Sure they are eye catching but I think they were very immature.

It will be interesting to see what comes of the Cairo Declaration from the Guardianship.

CnaG

Re. weird atmosphere - I reckon it was down to all the reps being hungry because no-one organised free lunch for us

No really, I thought so too. A lot of familiar faces were missing from the crowd so that probably didn't help. And there was no projector, which made the room darker.... The abstinence and Cairo motions were quite unusual as well... I don't know. Hopefully next month (the last UC of the year) it'll be better.

Ms. Koi

It was quite empty. That could be it. Peculiar!

Pajoe89

As one of the 3rd year History Reps, I find it quite bizzare that there seems to be so many. I have been at every UC meeting whether I was sick or busy and the fact some of them have only started to turn up in the last two weeks is beginning to irritate me a little bit. This is especially the case when they tend to make irrational statements and quote things in the constitution that aren't there. Is it the case that if a rep has not attended x amount of meetings is there position no forfeited? I think a look at who should be there and who should not is a key to a well run council. This should be appplied to any class or faculty. The fact that so many reps are from one class is confusing to the students they represent. I for one will be making an announcement that I am one of them in my next class. Just to clarify the matter. :rolleyes:

Further still I think the exec should openly encourage the positions of class reps at the start of each year. The fact such a class like 3rd English is without one is crazy to say the least.

Ataxia

I have never seen the Exec come round to my class at all looking for class reps.

princess_calico

CnaG wrote: »

Re. weird atmosphere - I reckon it was down to all the reps being hungry because no-one organised free lunch for us

Me was not happy

:mad:

princess_calico

Ataxia wrote: »

I have never seen the Exec come round to my class at all looking for class reps.

AFAIK they came around at the start of the year, but I'm not sure. Personally no one has ever come to my classes, and the class reps were supposed to have been assigned at around the same time as 1st year rep and postgrad rep.