Are schools primarily childminding services?

moonage · 19-03-2010 04:28PM #1

Schools are supposed to educate children but does it have to be eight hours a day for 14 years? After all, basic literacy and numeracy are reached at a young age. Education seems not to be the main functions of schools.

I think the main reason they have to spend so much time at school is to keep them locked up so the parents can go off to work or to keep them off the streets so they don't get into mischief.

Also, it's to condition them for the world of work; they're brainwashed into thinking that spending eight hours a day, five days a week in a place they don't want to be, is normal and proper.

If an enlightened government decided to reduce total school hours to, say, four hours a day, three days a week there'd be outrage and largely not because of educational concerns. They'd ask:"Who'll mind Johnny while I'm at work and stop him roaming the streets or going down the park playing football".

Perish the thought that we should allow children to enjoy their childhoods. Instead, detain them for most of their waking hours in special prisons, otherwise known as schools.

alwaysadub · 19-03-2010 04:34PM

I bet you're a student:pac:

ChocolateSauce · 19-03-2010 04:37PM

If you think education isn't the main function of schools, perhaps you'd better spend a bit more time there- or at least ask a person who got half the education the average person did how their life is going.

kelle · 19-03-2010 04:37PM

Where did you get eight hours a day?

My children attend primary school, from 9.20am to 3pm - a grand total of 5hours 40 minutes.

And our local secondary school is 9am to 3.30 pm - 6hrs 30 minuts.

One_Armed_Dwarf · 19-03-2010 04:46PM

I'm glad the kids are "locked" up in school, if they were left to roam the streets Ireland would be like "Mad Max" Australia within six months

alwaysadub · 19-03-2010 05:13PM

One_Armed_Dwarf wrote: »

I'm glad the kids are "locked" up in school, if they were left to roam the streets Ireland would be like "Mad Max" Australia within six months

Or,even worse, 'Bugsy Malone'! :eek:

Prof.Badass · 19-03-2010 05:23PM

I remember reading that most children would actually benifit from less class-hours although i can't find the source. I know that personally, most of primary school was a waste of time for me..... we'd spend weeks going over things most kids picked up in one morning. However i don't think school hours should be reduced (as who will mind the kids?).

The main benifit of homeschooling is that you can cover so much more stuff than is covered in school (in much less time), but the main argument against it (afaik) is that it's not as good for children's social development. I'd like to see more time allocated to PE and other activites/games aimed at improving social skills aswell as possibly one or two more short yard breaks throughout the day to keep kids motivated.

I also think that 4/5 is too late to be learning how to read and write, from what i've read our capacity to pick up new things decreases as we grow older.

/rant over.

Trashbat · 19-03-2010 05:35PM

Without any rose tinted glasses whatsoever, School was awesome.

9-4 Every day in a room with 30 of your mates. And the place full of girls in short skirts. On top of that occasionally you find out some interesting stuff, like why ox bow lakes exist, or what Sylvia Plath was really on about.

School is the least pressure and most social interaction you are likely to have in your entire life. Unless you are very lucky in adulthood, of course.

If prison was anything like school, I wouldn't bother running from cops when i do criminal stuff.

Overheal · 19-03-2010 05:36PM

moonage wrote: »

Schools are supposed to educate children but does it have to be eight hours a day for 14 years? After all, basic literacy and numeracy are reached at a young age. Education seems not to be the main functions of schools.

I think the main reason they have to spend so much time at school is to keep them locked up so the parents can go off to work or to keep them off the streets so they don't get into mischief.

Also, it's to condition them for the world of work; they're brainwashed into thinking that spending eight hours a day, five days a week in a place they don't want to be, is normal and proper.

If an enlightened government decided to reduce total school hours to, say, four hours a day, three days a week there'd be outrage and largely not because of educational concerns. They'd ask:"Who'll mind Johnny while I'm at work and stop him roaming the streets or going down the park playing football".

Perish the thought that we should allow children to enjoy their childhoods. Instead, detain them for most of their waking hours in special prisons, otherwise known as schools.

You should do school in America; where the norm is to wake at 5am, catch a bus at 6, arrive by 7:30 start at 8:00. Im a little more hazy about the afternoon. Its either off at 2 or 3, which means youre either home by 1530 or 1630.

Now considering commutes werent nearly as bad when i went to school in Ireland it WOULD make a lot of sense to start school at 7 or 8 and then still be off in time for a youthful afternoon.

landsleaving · 19-03-2010 05:42PM

Where else would I have learned imprtant skills like making faces from paper plates?

NothingMan · 19-03-2010 05:48PM

I miss school. Wait til it's finally over and you get to go to college and miss all the fun because part time jobs like you to work wednesday & thursday evenings, right when all the fun student stuff is happening. Then you get to go to work and spend 10 hours everyday doing something mind numbingly boring just so you can afford to drink enough to forget you work for 2 days at the weekend. Then you get married, have kids and die!

I best get myself over to sunshine, rainbows & lollipops before I whip out an oozie and go postal in this office.

ScumLord · 19-03-2010 05:51PM

I think the schools aren't even half what they should be, I think giving children homework is a sure fire sign they're failing at their jobs.

strobe · 19-03-2010 05:56PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I think the schools aren't even half what they should be, I think giving children homework is a sure fire sign they're failing at their jobs.

Couldn't agree more with the homework thing. Maybe it was just that I was unlucky to get a long string of crap teachers but from what I can remember about two thirds of the day was taken up by the teachers correcting the homework they gave the previous day. What a complete waste of time.

InReality · 19-03-2010 06:10PM

Its a pretty commonplace theory/explanation in sociology.

I think its "basically" true.

Schools provide kids with a place to go for all social groups.

However the level & type of education kids receive/absorb is basically down to :
1. Length of time kids spend studying over year
2. Number of books in household*

* Both which normally are normally dependant on the wealth/background of their parents , and less to do with the school enviroment per se.

moonage · 19-03-2010 06:12PM

Trashbat wrote: »

9-4 Every day in a room with 30 of your mates. And the place full of girls in short skirts.

I didn't think of that. I went to an all boys school but the presence of girls in short skirts would have brightened up the day.

pooch90 · 19-03-2010 06:16PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I think the schools aren't even half what they should be, I think giving children homework is a sure fire sign they're failing at their jobs.

Homework is to reinforce topics covered during the day, not to try to get kids to educate themselves! It is an indicator of the kid's grasp of the concept when having to work independently, not just copying off Johnny beside them or having teachers guide them through every step.

It is seen by some parents as a babysitting service, normally by the ones who don't give a flying fúck about their kids or their education. Remember the uproar about who would mind the kids during strike days? god forbid people would actually care for their children.

There is definitely a case for school starting earlier. Rising at such an hour would be good practice for entering the real world. Would also give the kids a chance to enjoy their free time. What good is childhood if it's dark when you're leaving school in the winter? Especially with over-protective parents who wouldn't dare let their kids leave the house after it's begun to get dark.

dvpower · 19-03-2010 06:19PM

alwaysadub wrote: »

I bet you're a student:pac:

I bet s/he isn't a parent.

Herb Powell · 19-03-2010 06:21PM

schools are not "childminding services". This is the main problem with the attitude some people have. "Ah sure teachers are only childminders". Children can be little ****s, and it takes a skilled person to get a child interested in learning

ScumLord wrote: »

I think the schools aren't even half what they should be, I think giving children homework is a sure fire sign they're failing at their jobs.

nah, homework is to reinforce what you learn in school.

SugarHigh · 19-03-2010 06:22PM

Finnish kids are considered the smartest in the world and they don't go to school until they are 7.

ScumLord · 19-03-2010 06:24PM

InReality wrote: »

Its a pretty commonplace theory/explanation in sociology.

I think its "basically" true.

Schools provide kids with a place to go for all social groups.

However the level & type of education kids receive/absorb is basically down to :
1. Length of time kids spend studying over year
2. Number of books in household*

* Both which normally are normally dependant on the wealth/background of their parents , and less to do with the school enviroment per se.

Both of which aren't as important anymore if the household has a computer.

pooch90 wrote: »

Homework is to reinforce topics covered during the day, not to try to get kids to educate themselves! It is an indicator of the kid's grasp of the concept when having to work independently, not just copying off Johnny beside them or having teachers guide them through every step.

It doesn't work out like that, My sister and her boyfriend have to sit down with my nephew and walk him through it just like in the school or he just won't do it. He is young yet but I don't see that changing and he is bright he absorbs information about computers at a fantastic rate because it's relevant to the world he lives in. Homework doesn't work, there are other methods like exercise that has been shown to help children retain information much quicker and for longer.

dvpower · 19-03-2010 06:27PM

moonage wrote: »

Perish the thought that we should allow children to enjoy their childhoods. Instead, detain them for most of their waking hours in special prisons, otherwise known as schools.

If kids weren't in school all day, they'd be in childcare, or, when they get older, roaming the streets. Here in the 21st century, both parents need to go out to work.

And, if you think school is like a prison, you should try harder, or you risk continuing your prison sentence in your working life too.

pooch90 · 19-03-2010 06:40PM

ScumLord wrote: »

It doesn't work out like that, My sister and her boyfriend have to sit down with my nephew and walk him through it just like in the school or he just won't do it. He is young yet but I don't see that changing and he is bright he absorbs information about computers at a fantastic rate because it's relevant to the world he lives in. Homework doesn't work, there are other methods like exercise that has been shown to help children retain information much quicker and for longer.

There is plenty of active learning done within the classroom. This is always the first way to teach things to younger pupils as it is appreciated that this is the way the little 'uns learn best.

If your nephew is bright as you say, then tbh I'd say not getting the homework is more of an attention thing than a case against the giving of homework. If attention is paid in school, homework should be able to be done without mammy and daddy. they'd never be given something that's a million miles away from what was covered that day. (please don't think I'm getting a dig at the wee fella btw)

Also, must disagree with the computer vs books part, more likely to develop academically if surrounded with an environment which has an obvious emphasis on learning and enjoyment of reading. How many kids will do anything educational on a computer without prompting? Feck all! Know plenty of kids who are demons on computers but can't hold a conversation. reading will expand their vocab and give more confidence when it comes to interaction. Especially if reading is a joint activity with parents.

stovelid · 19-03-2010 07:25PM

Moonage 2010: School is a humiliating form of social control

Moonage 2040: They were the best years of my life

almostnever · 19-03-2010 08:03PM

dvpower wrote: »

I bet s/he isn't a parent.

And you know, it's totally impossible to understand the education system/wonder about its essential purpose in our society if you're not a parent. Clearly.

bonerm · 19-03-2010 08:21PM

I agree that schools exist only as a childminding / social-conditioning service .... with the added bonus that they're keeping hundreds of thousands off the unemployment register. Anything that is actually learnt during these 13 (mostly wasted) years is probably just coincidental and would probably have been learnt/investigated by the individual anyway if truly necessary.

That said tho as much as a detest schools for pretending to be centres of learning I'd still rather these little bollixes kept in classes all day rather than roaming the streets like feral animals. So hat's off to all the INTO & ASTI registered childminders out there who do the day-to-day wardening of these disgusting little meatbags. I just feel sorry for you if you got into the job for some sort of "Dead Poets Society" motivation for enlightening young minds because I can only imagine you've been sorely disappointed by the reality.

Overheal · 19-03-2010 08:23PM

Trashbat wrote: »

Without any rose tinted glasses whatsoever, School was awesome.

9-4 Every day in a room with 30 of your mates. And the place full of girls in short skirts. On top of that occasionally you find out some interesting stuff, like why ox bow lakes exist, or what Sylvia Plath was really on about.

School is the least pressure and most social interaction you are likely to have in your entire life. Unless you are very lucky in adulthood, of course.

If prison was anything like school, I wouldn't bother running from cops when i do criminal stuff.

Printed; and passing around the office. Genius.

Formal shorts · 19-03-2010 09:07PM

bonerm wrote: »

I agree that schools exist only as a childminding / social-conditioning service .... with the added bonus that they're keeping hundreds of thousands off the unemployment register. Anything that is actually learnt during these 13 (mostly wasted) years is probably just coincidental and would probably have been learnt/investigated by the individual anyway if truly necessary.

That said tho as much as a detest schools for pretending to be centres of learning I'd still rather these little bollixes kept in classes all day rather than roaming the streets like feral animals. So hat's off to all the INTO & ASTI registered childminders out there who do the day-to-day wardening of these disgusting little meatbags. I just feel sorry for you if you got into the job for some sort of "Dead Poets Society" motivation for enlightening young minds because I can only imagine you've been sorely disappointed by the reality.

Has to be a wind up...

moonage · 19-03-2010 09:10PM

pooch90 wrote: »

Homework is to reinforce topics covered during the day, not to try to get kids to educate themselves! It is an indicator of the kid's grasp of the concept when having to work independently, not just copying off Johnny beside them or having teachers guide them through every step.

"Home"work should either be banned or done during school hours.

They spend seven hours at school and then have to do one or two or three more at home. Crazy.

Misty Chaos · 19-03-2010 09:30PM

I do agree on the amount of homework I used to get in primary school was sometimes ridiculous, I still remember nights where I spent 3+ hours on homework, a few occasions not finishing until just before bedtime! :eek:

What the hell is that supposed to teach you? That taking on too much work in the work place and having no time for a life as a result is acceptable and even encouraged?

And I do agree, in a lot of cases but not all, schools are nothing more than glorified child minding services.

stovelid · 19-03-2010 09:43PM

Misty Choas wrote: »

I do agree on the amount of homework I used to get in primary school was sometimes ridiculous, I still remember nights where I spent 3+ hours on homework, a few occasions not finishing until just before bedtime! :eek:

Just bully your younger siblings into doing it?

Ollchailin · 19-03-2010 09:50PM

I'd have to say as a teacher that homework is a necessary evil. Unless I give homework to my students, I'd have no way of knowing how they were getting on, because I wouldn't have time in a 40 minute class to go around to them all to check their work. If I take up copies I can go through it in my own time and give them individual feedback. Now having said that, some teachers do give a load of homework, and there are plenty of nights when I don't give written homework, just maybe a bit of vocab to learn.

If I didn't give homework then I'd probably have to give more tests as way of assessment, and I think students would hate that even more!

I do think some parents see school as a childminding service, in that many of them don't give a fiddler's about how their child is getting on. These are often the very same parents who say teachers are dossers and have an easy time- purely because it'd suit them to have their kids in school til 5 every day. And I can tell you now, there is no way in hell I could do my job til 5 every day without going crazy, besides the fact that I'd never have time to correct the copies/tests mentioned above, or for doing extra-curricular stuff with students.

I enjoy my job, but it's bloody hard and intense, and anyone who sees school as a childminding service is doing their own child a disservice by not emphasising all the other brilliant things that go on in classrooms every day, from learning interesting facts, to getting to share your talents with others, to making friends, to getting a gold star, to getting a Valentine's card from the boy in your class you fancy. School is all these things and more, not childminding.

Are schools primarily childminding services?

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