Are schools primarily childminding services?

moonage

Schools are supposed to educate children but does it have to be eight hours a day for 14 years? After all, basic literacy and numeracy are reached at a young age. Education seems not to be the main functions of schools.

I think the main reason they have to spend so much time at school is to keep them locked up so the parents can go off to work or to keep them off the streets so they don't get into mischief.

Also, it's to condition them for the world of work; they're brainwashed into thinking that spending eight hours a day, five days a week in a place they don't want to be, is normal and proper.

If an enlightened government decided to reduce total school hours to, say, four hours a day, three days a week there'd be outrage and largely not because of educational concerns. They'd ask:"Who'll mind Johnny while I'm at work and stop him roaming the streets or going down the park playing football".

Perish the thought that we should allow children to enjoy their childhoods. Instead, detain them for most of their waking hours in special prisons, otherwise known as schools.

alwaysadub

I bet you're a student:pac:

ChocolateSauce

If you think education isn't the main function of schools, perhaps you'd better spend a bit more time there- or at least ask a person who got half the education the average person did how their life is going.

kelle

Where did you get eight hours a day?

My children attend primary school, from 9.20am to 3pm - a grand total of 5hours 40 minutes.

And our local secondary school is 9am to 3.30 pm - 6hrs 30 minuts.

One_Armed_Dwarf

I'm glad the kids are "locked" up in school, if they were left to roam the streets Ireland would be like "Mad Max" Australia within six months

alwaysadub

One_Armed_Dwarf wrote: »

I'm glad the kids are "locked" up in school, if they were left to roam the streets Ireland would be like "Mad Max" Australia within six months

Or,even worse, 'Bugsy Malone'! :eek:

Prof.Badass

I remember reading that most children would actually benifit from less class-hours although i can't find the source. I know that personally, most of primary school was a waste of time for me..... we'd spend weeks going over things most kids picked up in one morning. However i don't think school hours should be reduced (as who will mind the kids?).

The main benifit of homeschooling is that you can cover so much more stuff than is covered in school (in much less time), but the main argument against it (afaik) is that it's not as good for children's social development. I'd like to see more time allocated to PE and other activites/games aimed at improving social skills aswell as possibly one or two more short yard breaks throughout the day to keep kids motivated.

I also think that 4/5 is too late to be learning how to read and write, from what i've read our capacity to pick up new things decreases as we grow older.

/rant over.

Trashbat

Without any rose tinted glasses whatsoever, School was awesome.

9-4 Every day in a room with 30 of your mates. And the place full of girls in short skirts. On top of that occasionally you find out some interesting stuff, like why ox bow lakes exist, or what Sylvia Plath was really on about.

School is the least pressure and most social interaction you are likely to have in your entire life. Unless you are very lucky in adulthood, of course.

If prison was anything like school, I wouldn't bother running from cops when i do criminal stuff.

Overheal

moonage wrote: »

Schools are supposed to educate children but does it have to be eight hours a day for 14 years? After all, basic literacy and numeracy are reached at a young age. Education seems not to be the main functions of schools.

I think the main reason they have to spend so much time at school is to keep them locked up so the parents can go off to work or to keep them off the streets so they don't get into mischief.

Also, it's to condition them for the world of work; they're brainwashed into thinking that spending eight hours a day, five days a week in a place they don't want to be, is normal and proper.

If an enlightened government decided to reduce total school hours to, say, four hours a day, three days a week there'd be outrage and largely not because of educational concerns. They'd ask:"Who'll mind Johnny while I'm at work and stop him roaming the streets or going down the park playing football".

Perish the thought that we should allow children to enjoy their childhoods. Instead, detain them for most of their waking hours in special prisons, otherwise known as schools.

You should do school in America; where the norm is to wake at 5am, catch a bus at 6, arrive by 7:30 start at 8:00. Im a little more hazy about the afternoon. Its either off at 2 or 3, which means youre either home by 1530 or 1630.

Now considering commutes werent nearly as bad when i went to school in Ireland it WOULD make a lot of sense to start school at 7 or 8 and then still be off in time for a youthful afternoon.

landsleaving

Where else would I have learned imprtant skills like making faces from paper plates?

NothingMan

I miss school. Wait til it's finally over and you get to go to college and miss all the fun because part time jobs like you to work wednesday & thursday evenings, right when all the fun student stuff is happening. Then you get to go to work and spend 10 hours everyday doing something mind numbingly boring just so you can afford to drink enough to forget you work for 2 days at the weekend. Then you get married, have kids and die!

I best get myself over to sunshine, rainbows & lollipops before I whip out an oozie and go postal in this office.

ScumLord

I think the schools aren't even half what they should be, I think giving children homework is a sure fire sign they're failing at their jobs.

strobe

ScumLord wrote: »

I think the schools aren't even half what they should be, I think giving children homework is a sure fire sign they're failing at their jobs.

Couldn't agree more with the homework thing. Maybe it was just that I was unlucky to get a long string of crap teachers but from what I can remember about two thirds of the day was taken up by the teachers correcting the homework they gave the previous day. What a complete waste of time.

InReality

Its a pretty commonplace theory/explanation in sociology.

I think its "basically" true.

Schools provide kids with a place to go for all social groups.

However the level & type of education kids receive/absorb is basically down to :
1. Length of time kids spend studying over year
2. Number of books in household*

* Both which normally are normally dependant on the wealth/background of their parents , and less to do with the school enviroment per se.

moonage

Trashbat wrote: »

9-4 Every day in a room with 30 of your mates. And the place full of girls in short skirts.

I didn't think of that. I went to an all boys school but the presence of girls in short skirts would have brightened up the day.

pooch90

ScumLord wrote: »

I think the schools aren't even half what they should be, I think giving children homework is a sure fire sign they're failing at their jobs.

Homework is to reinforce topics covered during the day, not to try to get kids to educate themselves! It is an indicator of the kid's grasp of the concept when having to work independently, not just copying off Johnny beside them or having teachers guide them through every step.

It is seen by some parents as a babysitting service, normally by the ones who don't give a flying fúck about their kids or their education. Remember the uproar about who would mind the kids during strike days? god forbid people would actually care for their children.

There is definitely a case for school starting earlier. Rising at such an hour would be good practice for entering the real world. Would also give the kids a chance to enjoy their free time. What good is childhood if it's dark when you're leaving school in the winter? Especially with over-protective parents who wouldn't dare let their kids leave the house after it's begun to get dark.

dvpower

alwaysadub wrote: »

I bet you're a student:pac:

I bet s/he isn't a parent.

Herb Powell

schools are not "childminding services". This is the main problem with the attitude some people have. "Ah sure teachers are only childminders". Children can be little ****s, and it takes a skilled person to get a child interested in learning

ScumLord wrote: »

I think the schools aren't even half what they should be, I think giving children homework is a sure fire sign they're failing at their jobs.

nah, homework is to reinforce what you learn in school.

SugarHigh

Finnish kids are considered the smartest in the world and they don't go to school until they are 7.

ScumLord

InReality wrote: »

Its a pretty commonplace theory/explanation in sociology.

I think its "basically" true.

Schools provide kids with a place to go for all social groups.

However the level & type of education kids receive/absorb is basically down to :
1. Length of time kids spend studying over year
2. Number of books in household*

* Both which normally are normally dependant on the wealth/background of their parents , and less to do with the school enviroment per se.

Both of which aren't as important anymore if the household has a computer.

pooch90 wrote: »

Homework is to reinforce topics covered during the day, not to try to get kids to educate themselves! It is an indicator of the kid's grasp of the concept when having to work independently, not just copying off Johnny beside them or having teachers guide them through every step.

It doesn't work out like that, My sister and her boyfriend have to sit down with my nephew and walk him through it just like in the school or he just won't do it. He is young yet but I don't see that changing and he is bright he absorbs information about computers at a fantastic rate because it's relevant to the world he lives in. Homework doesn't work, there are other methods like exercise that has been shown to help children retain information much quicker and for longer.

dvpower

moonage wrote: »

Perish the thought that we should allow children to enjoy their childhoods. Instead, detain them for most of their waking hours in special prisons, otherwise known as schools.

If kids weren't in school all day, they'd be in childcare, or, when they get older, roaming the streets. Here in the 21st century, both parents need to go out to work.

And, if you think school is like a prison, you should try harder, or you risk continuing your prison sentence in your working life too.

pooch90

ScumLord wrote: »

It doesn't work out like that, My sister and her boyfriend have to sit down with my nephew and walk him through it just like in the school or he just won't do it. He is young yet but I don't see that changing and he is bright he absorbs information about computers at a fantastic rate because it's relevant to the world he lives in. Homework doesn't work, there are other methods like exercise that has been shown to help children retain information much quicker and for longer.

There is plenty of active learning done within the classroom. This is always the first way to teach things to younger pupils as it is appreciated that this is the way the little 'uns learn best.

If your nephew is bright as you say, then tbh I'd say not getting the homework is more of an attention thing than a case against the giving of homework. If attention is paid in school, homework should be able to be done without mammy and daddy. they'd never be given something that's a million miles away from what was covered that day. (please don't think I'm getting a dig at the wee fella btw)


Also, must disagree with the computer vs books part, more likely to develop academically if surrounded with an environment which has an obvious emphasis on learning and enjoyment of reading. How many kids will do anything educational on a computer without prompting? Feck all! Know plenty of kids who are demons on computers but can't hold a conversation. reading will expand their vocab and give more confidence when it comes to interaction. Especially if reading is a joint activity with parents.

stovelid

Moonage 2010: School is a humiliating form of social control

Moonage 2040: They were the best years of my life

almostnever

dvpower wrote: »

I bet s/he isn't a parent.

And you know, it's totally impossible to understand the education system/wonder about its essential purpose in our society if you're not a parent. Clearly.

bonerm

I agree that schools exist only as a childminding / social-conditioning service .... with the added bonus that they're keeping hundreds of thousands off the unemployment register. Anything that is actually learnt during these 13 (mostly wasted) years is probably just coincidental and would probably have been learnt/investigated by the individual anyway if truly necessary.

That said tho as much as a detest schools for pretending to be centres of learning I'd still rather these little bollixes kept in classes all day rather than roaming the streets like feral animals. So hat's off to all the INTO & ASTI registered childminders out there who do the day-to-day wardening of these disgusting little meatbags. I just feel sorry for you if you got into the job for some sort of "Dead Poets Society" motivation for enlightening young minds because I can only imagine you've been sorely disappointed by the reality.

Overheal

Trashbat wrote: »

Without any rose tinted glasses whatsoever, School was awesome.

9-4 Every day in a room with 30 of your mates. And the place full of girls in short skirts. On top of that occasionally you find out some interesting stuff, like why ox bow lakes exist, or what Sylvia Plath was really on about.

School is the least pressure and most social interaction you are likely to have in your entire life. Unless you are very lucky in adulthood, of course.

If prison was anything like school, I wouldn't bother running from cops when i do criminal stuff.

Printed; and passing around the office. Genius.

Formal shorts

bonerm wrote: »

I agree that schools exist only as a childminding / social-conditioning service .... with the added bonus that they're keeping hundreds of thousands off the unemployment register. Anything that is actually learnt during these 13 (mostly wasted) years is probably just coincidental and would probably have been learnt/investigated by the individual anyway if truly necessary.

That said tho as much as a detest schools for pretending to be centres of learning I'd still rather these little bollixes kept in classes all day rather than roaming the streets like feral animals. So hat's off to all the INTO & ASTI registered childminders out there who do the day-to-day wardening of these disgusting little meatbags. I just feel sorry for you if you got into the job for some sort of "Dead Poets Society" motivation for enlightening young minds because I can only imagine you've been sorely disappointed by the reality.

Has to be a wind up...

moonage

pooch90 wrote: »

Homework is to reinforce topics covered during the day, not to try to get kids to educate themselves! It is an indicator of the kid's grasp of the concept when having to work independently, not just copying off Johnny beside them or having teachers guide them through every step.

"Home"work should either be banned or done during school hours.

They spend seven hours at school and then have to do one or two or three more at home. Crazy.

Misty Chaos

I do agree on the amount of homework I used to get in primary school was sometimes ridiculous, I still remember nights where I spent 3+ hours on homework, a few occasions not finishing until just before bedtime! :eek:

What the hell is that supposed to teach you? That taking on too much work in the work place and having no time for a life as a result is acceptable and even encouraged?

And I do agree, in a lot of cases but not all, schools are nothing more than glorified child minding services.

stovelid

Misty Choas wrote: »

I do agree on the amount of homework I used to get in primary school was sometimes ridiculous, I still remember nights where I spent 3+ hours on homework, a few occasions not finishing until just before bedtime! :eek:

Just bully your younger siblings into doing it?

Ollchailin

I'd have to say as a teacher that homework is a necessary evil. Unless I give homework to my students, I'd have no way of knowing how they were getting on, because I wouldn't have time in a 40 minute class to go around to them all to check their work. If I take up copies I can go through it in my own time and give them individual feedback. Now having said that, some teachers do give a load of homework, and there are plenty of nights when I don't give written homework, just maybe a bit of vocab to learn.

If I didn't give homework then I'd probably have to give more tests as way of assessment, and I think students would hate that even more!

I do think some parents see school as a childminding service, in that many of them don't give a fiddler's about how their child is getting on. These are often the very same parents who say teachers are dossers and have an easy time- purely because it'd suit them to have their kids in school til 5 every day. And I can tell you now, there is no way in hell I could do my job til 5 every day without going crazy, besides the fact that I'd never have time to correct the copies/tests mentioned above, or for doing extra-curricular stuff with students.

I enjoy my job, but it's bloody hard and intense, and anyone who sees school as a childminding service is doing their own child a disservice by not emphasising all the other brilliant things that go on in classrooms every day, from learning interesting facts, to getting to share your talents with others, to making friends, to getting a gold star, to getting a Valentine's card from the boy in your class you fancy. School is all these things and more, not childminding.

pooch90

Misty Choas wrote: »

I do agree on the amount of homework I used to get in primary school was sometimes ridiculous, I still remember nights where I spent 3+ hours on homework, a few occasions not finishing until just before bedtime! :eek:

What the hell is that supposed to teach you? That taking on too much work in the work place and having no time for a life as a result is acceptable and even encouraged?

And I do agree, in a lot of cases but not all, schools are nothing more than glorified child minding services.

This may have been the case in the past that primary kids were given hours upon hours of homework. Now, however, every school has a homework policy which is adhered to so ridiculous amounts of homework can't be given.

moonage, you don't actually seem to realise how much there is to be done in an average day in school. If "home"work was to be done in school hours then it would end up being a day full of English and Maths.How is that going to do them any good? They may have decent literacy and numeracy skills but come out of it with a deep-rooted hatred (e.g. yourself) of education and learning. That'll do the country a lot of good when 90% of pupils drop out of school before 3rd level.

As Ollchaillin said, there simply isn't time in the day to assess every child in every subject area, this assessment comes from correcting their independent work-ie homework. It'd be all very well and good to say "Fúck it, they're probably all grand" and not give homework but as educators, the teachers actually want to know how everyone is getting on to ensure no child slips through the cracks.

I think the distinction needs to be made between schools actually being glorified child minders and ignorant sh1tbag parents who just like to treat it as such.

starbelgrade

Ollchailin wrote: »

brilliant things that go on in classrooms every day, from learning interesting facts, to getting a Valentine's card from the boy in your class you fancy.

That wouldn't have happened in my day, especially in a boys school.

moonage

pooch90 wrote: »

moonage, you don't actually seem to realise how much there is to be done in an average day in school. If "home"work was to be done in school hours then it would end up being a day full of English and Maths.How is that going to do them any good?

Bloody hell! A child spends long enough in school. Five days a week, seven hours a day. And then you want them to spend extra time on top of that doing homework. A full day of English and Maths, without homework, sounds fine to me. And then you ask "how is this going to do them any good?"!

The Mad Hatter

moonage wrote: »

Schools are supposed to educate children but does it have to be eight hours a day for 14 years? After all, basic literacy and numeracy are reached at a young age.

"You've got the basics, now off you go"?

dolliemix

Homework can aid understanding . Homework also provides opportunities for reinforcement of work learned during school time and for children to develop their research skills. Children will need to seek information for themselves from reference materials such as encyclopedias, books, CD Roms and by doing so, are helped along the path to becoming independent learners.

Having the responsibility of needing to meet deadlines promotes self-discipline, an attribute which will impact on school work and beyond.

_Kaiser_

The OP does have a point to be fair..

Far too many people in the last 10-15 years have had children that:

1) They don't really want in the first place - maybe it was because one partner wanted a child, and the other "went along" with it, maybe it was because "everyone else" was doing it, maybe because it's "expected" once you reach a certain age

2) They don't have time for - the days of the "daddy going out to work while mammy stays home and minds the babies and cleans house" are largely gone. These days both parents have no choice but to work to put food on the tables and pay the bills

3) They're not prepared (as people) for raising children - what I like to call the influence of the amercanised "PC touchy-feely, counselling nanny state", where parents are told that teaching their kids a bit of old-fashioned discipline and respect for others and themselves is now "wrong" (and I don't mean by beating the crap outta them, but in the vein as most of us who grew up in the 80s were raised where if you pushed it there were more effective methods for dealing with it that going to sit on the naughty step :rolleyes:)

Now you have to consider the child's potential emotional scarring if you criticise them when they do wrong, or worry about your neighbour/relative or some other do-gooder reporting you etc. :rolleyes:
As a result they plonk them in front of the TV/XBox and figure the school's will know how to teach/raise them instead.

The result of all this (imo):
- Increased antisocial behaviour and crime, and worsening examples of same
- General lack of respect for parents, others, self and property
- Worsening educational standards.. despite what the Government might like the multinationals to believe, our "well educated literate" workforce is now largely a myth.

I'm only in my 30's but I can safely say that there is no way that I would have been allowed to carry-on the way kids do now, and no way that I would speak to my parents with the contempt that a lot of them do either.

Trying to have an adult-style reasoning session with a misbehaving 6/7 year old doesn't work, nor does simply giving in to them for an easier life after a hard day at the office.

Most importantly, they need to start accepting responsibility for raising their own children again rather than expecting society at large to do it for them.

Otherwise, just don't have kids in the first place!

Superbus

Having had nearly a whole school year without homework (Transition Year), I can safely say that homework has to be a key component of an education. Even the times in TY that I've been going to class regularly, rather than doing projects, I haven't learnt anything really, as once I walk out the door of the classroom everything I may have learnt has become essentially redundant.

Unfortunately for me, I now have Easter Exams, and all those months without homework or study have caught up with me and my peers.

I can see, however, how primary school could be seen as a variation on childminding. Certainly in my recent experiences of it we did pretty much the same thing year on year, so that First to Fifth Class kind of went by in a blur. I was taught my most helpful assets, spelling, sentence structure etc., at home anyway, through my parents reading to me.

Finally, though, I think it's incorrect to see school as a prison, or a system of brainwashing for future workplace experiences. As I mentioned earlier, I still have the Leaving Cert awaiting, but I can honestly say that I have enjoyed the last 12 years, since I started Junior Infants. I can't think of anything else I would have been doing instead, had there been 3 day weeks or something like that.

pooch90

moonage wrote: »

Bloody hell! A child spends long enough in school. Five days a week, seven hours a day. And then you want them to spend extra time on top of that doing homework. A full day of English and Maths, without homework, sounds fine to me. And then you ask "how is this going to do them any good?"!

The most important things that a child can learn in primary school, apart from basic literacy and numeracy, is social interaction and conflict resolution. The new primary curriculum is a rounded curriculum, aimed at creating a well adjusted child. If the day was just English and Maths they wouldn't leave with any sort of social skills/arts education/physical education.

I'm sure you'd be the first one whinging that they don't spend enough time doing creative/non chalk and talk learning. I suggest you actually look at the obligatory hours designated to each subject in the curriculum. How would it be possible to teach and assess all of the subjects in 28 hours in a given week. Primary subjects consist of

• English (4 hrs)
• Irish (3 hrs)
• maths(3 hrs)
• history (1hr)
• geography (1hr)
• science(1 hr)
• music (1hr)
• drama (1hr)
• art (1hr)
• PE (1hr)
• SPHE (normally half hr-1hr)

In most schools, half an hour of religion daily. I'm sure the parents and kids would be delighted to eliminate all the subjects and let the weaker ones slip through the cracks just because they may not have a flair for academics. everybody has different talents and to eliminate everything bar English and maths will lead to more maladjusted kids who opt out of education and turn into little scummers.

Catari Jaguar

8 Hours eh? Let's see, 8:50am - 1:30pm for Junior/ Senior Infants = 4 hrs 40min
1st - 6th 8:50am - 2:30pm = 5 hours 40 min.
Take out 15 min for break and 30 for min lunch as well.

Homework is generally not given in Junior/ Senior Infants (although is largely requested by parents or given when children need 1 - 1 work with handwriting / phonics)

The time limits for homework are set by the school policies.

Typically: 1st class 20 min, add 5 minutes until 6th class(that is around 45 minutes). A timer should be set and any work that's not completed by then should be put back in the school bag and a parents should write a note in their child's diary explaining to teacher that it was too hard. Teacher will generally differentiate work levels. If a kid can't grasp it at school, then don't give it for homework.

Anyways homework is usually spelling (English & Gaeilge), Maths tables, putting words in sentences. The odd time a worksheet is to be completed.

I find that I feel like a babysitter when the lazy ass PJ wearing parents "forget" to pick their kids up until an hour or so late. Then I tell them to be here on time in future because I'm not a babysitter, if they dont their kid will be left at the nearest Garda station. :mad:

For a lot of children, especially disadvantaged, school is a place where they get the structure that is desperately needed in their lives. Often times, school is the only place they feel safe and shockingly, many children do really enjoy school.

Also add that children go to school for 183 - 186 days of the year. Which is only half a year. Secondary students even less as they have 3 months summer holidays.

stovelid

stovelid wrote: »

Moonage 2010: School is a humiliating form of social control

Moonage 2040: They were the best years of my life

That just proves that the ~60 years which lie between graduation and death involve a much more humiliating form of social control: employment.

Durrrrrr. :pac:

plein de force

nah i think you've got it wrong
just look at countries where children don't go to school or get adequate education, see where they end up?
you need more than basic literacy and numeracy skills to get a job and support yourself

kowloon

The last two years of school were the best of my life, I can't say I learnt very much though. Everything is downhill after that, including third level should you choose it.

gullible

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

The OP does have a point to be fair..

Far too many people in the last 10-15 years have had children that:

1) They don't really want in the first place - maybe it was because one partner wanted a child, and the other "went along" with it, maybe it was because "everyone else" was doing it, maybe because it's "expected" once you reach a certain age

2) They don't have time for - the days of the "daddy going out to work while mammy stays home and minds the babies and cleans house" are largely gone. These days both parents have no choice but to work to put food on the tables and pay the bills

3) They're not prepared (as people) for raising children - what I like to call the influence of the amercanised "PC touchy-feely, counselling nanny state", where parents are told that teaching their kids a bit of old-fashioned discipline and respect for others and themselves is now "wrong" (and I don't mean by beating the crap outta them, but in the vein as most of us who grew up in the 80s were raised where if you pushed it there were more effective methods for dealing with it that going to sit on the naughty step :rolleyes:)

Now you have to consider the child's potential emotional scarring if you criticise them when they do wrong, or worry about your neighbour/relative or some other do-gooder reporting you etc. :rolleyes:
As a result they plonk them in front of the TV/XBox and figure the school's will know how to teach/raise them instead.

The result of all this (imo):
- Increased antisocial behaviour and crime, and worsening examples of same
- General lack of respect for parents, others, self and property
- Worsening educational standards.. despite what the Government might like the multinationals to believe, our "well educated literate" workforce is now largely a myth.

I'm only in my 30's but I can safely say that there is no way that I would have been allowed to carry-on the way kids do now, and no way that I would speak to my parents with the contempt that a lot of them do either.

Trying to have an adult-style reasoning session with a misbehaving 6/7 year old doesn't work, nor does simply giving in to them for an easier life after a hard day at the office.

Most importantly, they need to start accepting responsibility for raising their own children again rather than expecting society at large to do it for them.

Otherwise, just don't have kids in the first place!

Your right these days both parents will probably have no choice but to work which unfortunately may mean spending less time with their children and thank God the days of "mammy stays home and minds the babies and cleans house" are long gone but does that mean a couple shouldn't have children?

While it is certainly not the school's place to raise/teach instead of a parent (I firmly believe that it's the parents duty to make sure their child is raised in a suitable fashion) surely it is one of the best opportunities a child has to learn to socialise/interact with other people.

I agree that schools maybe seen (even correctly seen) as a childminding service and I'll hold my hands up and say I would be lost without schools. However I do hope my child gets more out of it than just a childminding service.

Kaiser I presume by your post that you are a parent how would you and your partner go out to work every day if it wasn't for the school system?

dolliemix

gullible wrote: »

Your right these days both parents will probably have no choice but to work which unfortunately may mean spending less time with their children and thank God the days of "mammy stays home and minds the babies and cleans house" are long gone but does that mean a couple shouldn't have children?

While it is certainly not the school's place to raise/teach instead of a parent (I firmly believe that it's the parents duty to make sure their child is raised in a suitable fashion) surely it is one of the best opportunities a child has to learn to socialise/interact with other people.

I agree that schools maybe seen (even correctly seen) as a childminding service and I'll hold my hands up and say I would be lost without schools. However I do hope my child gets more out of it than just a childminding service.

Kaiser I presume by your post that you are a parent how would you and your partner go out to work every day if it wasn't for the school system?

I don't think that's what the poster meant!!

Hank_Jones

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

If you think education isn't the main function of schools, perhaps you'd better spend a bit more time there- or at least ask a person who got half the education the average person did how their life is going.

I'd say that I probably got about half the education of an average person, regarding primary and secondary school anyway.
I'd certainly say that I found absolutely no use for the majority of information I picked up while in school, apart from reading, writing and basic maths.
I absolutely hated school, felt it was like some sort of prison where you were taught by people who didn't actually know much, and had lost their appetite for teaching a long, long time ago.

I dun tink nod goin to skool has held be bak much.
I does fall down a lot tho...

dolliemix

Hank_Jones wrote: »

I'd say that I probably got about half the education of an average person, regarding primary and secondary school anyway.
I'd certainly say that I found absolutely no use for the majority of information I picked up while in school, apart from reading, writing and basic maths.
I absolutely hated school, felt it was like some sort of prison where you were taught by people who didn't actually know much, and had lost their appetite for teaching a long, long time ago.

I dun tink nod goin to skool has held be bak much.
I does fall down a lot tho...

Lol! And was that not important?

Nowadays with this touchy feely society that we live in people expect schools to be like summer camps. Are teachers there to teach or to entertain?

Dudess

Conspiracy theory stuff about it being a childminding service aside (hugely disagree - and oh yeah, those terrible parents for going out to work... when they can't afford not to. It's not our parents' day any more - when one income was enough for a family; and no, these two incomes aren't required for flatscreen TVs, flash cars, a conservatory) I do think the day is too long. I used to be shattered at the end of the day (8.50 to 4 - just one short break and lunch, there should have been an afternoon short break; the afternoon used to seem like an eternity) - and then launch into homework? And some teenagers have to get a part-time job too. Also, I remember hearing an interview with some sleep expert guy who argued the day starts too early for kids/teenagers and that they're still growing and developing and a start earlier than 9.30 is too much for them.
I remember at assembly the year head used to tell us we should be aiming for three to four hours' study an evening - this was in junior cert. Fuck that lark. Pretty disgraceful actually IMO. We were 15 ffs! I used to just do the minimum required - practical assignments and swotting up if a test was looming. This all took me an hour and a half to two hours. After that, relaxation in the form of TV/listening to music/reading or out to meet friends... the stuff teens are supposed to enjoy.

Revision was only something for exams.

El Siglo

I didn't like school that much, aside from the bullying etc... it was the whole rote learning aspect, nothing could deviate from the marking schemes, so I did ok but not great. Went to college, did pretty well for myself by the shear fact that it was my own interpretation of things as opposed to what the book said. That's probably the problem with school, if children were actually taught how to think as opposed to how to remember then things might be different. Creativity shouldn't be limited to art, woodwork or english paper 1.

Dudess

The curriculum was also excruciatingly dull too - I'm amazed I managed to stay awake. And some subjects that were mandatory should not have been mandatory at all. It's ludicrous they were.

I had a good laugh though, made very good friends. I'm glad too that Irish schools have a uniform - saves a lot of money and hassle.

Hank_Jones

dolliemix wrote: »

Lol! And was that not important?

I picked up some reading, writing and maths at school.
To be honest, the majority of stuff that I learnt was at home.
My family have always been big readers, so I don't think school played as big a part as life at home did.

dolliemix wrote: »

Nowadays with this touchy feely society that we live in people expect schools to be like summer camps. Are teachers there to teach or to entertain?

Just wondering if this comment was directed at me...

Personally I never expected school to be a summer camp.
I did expect to have teachers that had a higher level of intelligence than myself though.
Might have just been my school, but some of my teachers were feckin awful.
Most likely was the school, it has a bad name for education now and parents don't send their kids there.