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Sean Fitz arrested?

«1345

Comments

  • #2
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Well, that's where he lives but who knows. I hope somebody is brought to book because I'm sick of the PS unions using it as a reason not to take paycuts lol.


  • #3
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    yep must be him, i wonder how many men in their 60s in a town of 18000 are under Fraud investigations ;)

    However, Anglo is entitled to pursue Mr Fitzpatrick for any assets including his family’s home in Greystones, Co Wicklow

    source


    actually from the same article few days ago
    However, the situation becomes more complex if some assets are held jointly or have been transferred to the ownership of other family members, as well as if they are held in foreign jurisdictions.

    :cool:


  • #4
    Byron85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭Byron85


    Well it took them long enough didn't it? It'll be interesting to see how all of this unfolds over the next few days.


  • #5
    Oafley Jones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Oafley Jones


    Confirmed as Seanie on the news.


  • #6
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Confirmed on the IT as well.

    Lets hope they do take action and convict all those who did work outside the rules and help make this crisis far worse for Ireland because of their blind greed. If there is justice in Ireland this should be the first of many arrests (and hopefully convictions). Otherwise all we will do is incentivise a new generation of chancers to plunge the country into economic catastrophy for short term personal gain in the future.


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  • #7
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    deadtiger wrote: »
    Otherwise all we will do is incentivise a new generation of chancers to plunge the country into economic catastrophy for short term personal gain in the future.

    bailing out the banks (again) has shown any current and future bankers that its ok to take on crazy risk since:
    * they wont be the ones cleaning up the mess
    * and they will be the ones claiming the bonuses for short-termism


  • #8
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    rte.ie/business/2010/0318/anglo.html
    There might be some justice yet


  • #9
    Kristopherus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    Hopefully not the only arrest. And its convictions that are required.


  • #10
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    bailing out the banks (again) has shown any current and future bankers that its ok to take on crazy risk since:
    * they wont be the ones cleaning up the mess
    * and they will be the ones claiming the bonuses for short-termism

    Only if those in charge of those banks get away scot free.

    If we find that the banks have been bailed out and those who were in charge and made crazy decisions get punished then I won't be as angry.

    Unfortunately I am an eternal optimist and the people in charge of governing this country and those in the justice system always seem to disappoint me.

    If those who were in charge of management of the major banks and who did take risks that put those organisations in harms way and even worst the economy of the whole country at jeopardy are not dealt with in the harshest manner then how can we expect the ordinary taxpayers of this country to knuckle down to get everything back on track again.


  • #11
    MaceFace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭MaceFace


    Fantastic news.

    I hope that this development will go someway towards quelling the conspiracy theorists that exist in certain peoples heads (looks around suspiciously)

    Of course, this should have been done a long time ago, but better late than never.
    Now, lets hope the move through the legal process is more swift wioth Seannie as well as moving on to all others who may have acted inappropriately.


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  • #12
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    Let's hope the Gardaí had all their i,s dotted and t,s crossed before making the arrest. I can see the technicality word already.


  • #13
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Hopefully more will follow. I really want to see David Drumm dragged back from the states where he is busy buying mansions. And we must remember this is just an arrest, there is no charge yet but Section 4 of the criminal justice act under which Fitzpatrick was arrested carries sentences in excess of 5yrs. I read on another site that Anglo are about to reveal losses of 14 billion, the largest ever recorded in the state so is the timing of this arrest merely coincidental?


  • #14
    yoshytoshy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭yoshytoshy


    The first bit of good news about anglo ,in a long time.


  • #15
    bladespin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,368 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Has to happen, if the government aren't seen to take a hard line on these guys they'll never see a dollar invested here, least not in anything financial.
    Untitled Image

    MasteryDarts Ireland - Master your game!



  • #16
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    deadtiger wrote: »
    Only if those in charge of those banks get away scot free.

    If we find that the banks have been bailed out and those who were in charge and made crazy decisions get punished then I won't be as angry.

    Unfortunately I am an eternal optimist and the people in charge of governing this country and those in the justice system always seem to disappoint me.

    If those who were in charge of management of the major banks and who did take risks that put those organisations in harms way and even worst the economy of the whole country at jeopardy are not dealt with in the harshest manner then how can we expect the ordinary taxpayers of this country to knuckle down to get everything back on track again.

    Sean is just one of many people who held/hold high positions

    when scamming the banks/government, its all about timing your exit and when to "bail-out" of the train before it hits the wall

    banking would usually attract the risk takers, when knowing that your chances of being arrested are minuscule there's every incentive to give out bad loans and make bad investments, especially when your get bonuses based on short term performance

    unfortunately for Sean F he got caught with his pants down, and rightly so


  • #17
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    merge with http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055857782 ?


  • #18
    eigrod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭eigrod


    If they get a conviction, they should take him on a perp walk from the new courts, up the quays, up O' Connell St and on to Mountjoy.


  • #19
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Fingleton must be sweating bricks


  • #20
    Mr. Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    There has NEVER been a conviction for white collar crime in this country.

    Here's hoping.

    This nonsense has to be rooted out once and for all.


  • #21
    allucinator
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭allucinator


    Oh dear,oh dear! do you people REALLY think anything is going to change in this country? Fitzpatrick might be hung out to dry as a scapegoat (tho I doubt it) but nothing will change. We will still have the misfortune to live in a very, very corrupt little country. And oyu know what? We deserve it cos we just keep on putting up with it.


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  • #22
    saltie
    Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭saltie


    allucinator wrote: »
    Oh dear,oh dear! do you people REALLY think anything is going to change in this country? Fitzpatrick might be hung out to dry as a scapegoat (tho I doubt it) but nothing will change. We will still have the misfortune to live in a very, very corrupt little country. And oyu know what? We deserve it cos we just keep on putting up with it.

    So what can we do about it?


  • #23
    allucinator
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭allucinator


    saltie wrote: »
    So what can we do about it?

    It has to be radical change. Two options: 1. For a quick solution, take to the streets and revolution. Not gonna happen, which is ironic given our history.

    2. Longer term, change the way this country operates (possibly from within): government, banks, church, business, education, the lot!


  • #24
    saltie
    Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭saltie


    allucinator wrote: »
    It has to be radical change. Two options: 1. For a quick solution, take to the streets and revolution. Not gonna happen, which is ironic given our history.

    2. Longer term, change the way this country operates (possibly from within): government, banks, church, business, education, the lot!

    I like 1. As you say never gonna happen, we`ve become too passive


  • #25
    allucinator
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭allucinator


    We've become too comfortable. We're in a "fur-lined rut".


  • #26
    Dempo1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,022 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I sense one or two developers will also be sweating, i see NAMA has also wrote to some developers seeking any information on (Convenient) property transfers to spouse and family. Hopefully this arrest is the start of a major clean up and prosecutions of a very small amount of high flyer's who have destroyed the economy.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • #27
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    anyone else think

    that this is all a distraction for the media

    shortly before Anglo is about to announce a record 14billion loss

    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/anglo-irish-banks-bad-loan-losses-expected-to-reach-836414bn-2102830.html


    while the sheeple are entertained and distracted with Sean, the actual bad news is pushed out of view

    very cunning me thinks ;)


  • #28
    Butch Cassidy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭Butch Cassidy


    Mr. Incognito wrote: »
    There has NEVER been a conviction for white collar crime in this country.

    Here's hoping.

    This nonsense has to be rooted out once and for all.


    Never ever? Really?


    The first thing I noticed abuot this story is that RTE and some papers have named and pictured him as well as named Anglo. TV3 in their news bulletins have neither mentioned his name nor the bank just generic terms like "a former executive of a financial institution".

    Any potential case will obviously be prejudiced and there'll be no conviction. Absolutely sickening ahead of the EU saying they want more cuts and November's budget will obviously be written in the next few weeks.


  • #29
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    anyone else think

    that this is all a distraction for the media

    shortly before Anglo is about to announce a record 14billion loss

    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/anglo-irish-banks-bad-loan-losses-expected-to-reach-836414bn-2102830.html


    while the sheeple are entertained and distracted with Sean, the actual bad news is pushed out of view

    very cunning me thinks ;)

    Yep, I think the announcement of these massive losses likely determined the timing of this arrest.

    I don't see why they bothered searching his home 2 years on, like he would have left incriminating documents lying around all this time.

    I'll also take this opportunity to say I really like your posts on NAMA and the reasons it will fail. As the flaws in NAMA are being pointed out, supporters of this mass robbery device are changing their tune to suggest its aim is anything and everything other than what we were told it was before (increase bank lending) and what we'd get for it (break-even or a return).


  • #30
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    I suspect that he is only the tip of the iceberg and the rest will slither away quietly.


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  • #31
    Cyrus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,209 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    just wondering, everyone that wants him jailed and that are looking for convictions etc

    what crime do you want him charged with and what time do you expect that he will do?

    Also, to the poster that thinks that a few high fliers brought this country to is knees :rolleyes:


  • #32
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    Wasn't one of the main issues with Anglo the hiding of inter compnay/directors loans? And if so shouldn't auditors be also held accountable?


  • #33
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Cyrus wrote: »
    just wondering, everyone that wants him jailed and that are looking for convictions etc

    what crime do you want him charged with and what time do you expect that he will do?

    Also, to the poster that thinks that a few high fliers brought this country to is knees :rolleyes:

    He was moving very large sums of money from one bank account to another and back again on a regular basis to help inflate account figures and misrepresent yearly reports, etc, according to accounts of those far better than I to say such things - something like Nick Leeson was doing at one stage to cover his mistakes.
    If this is the case, and I know Sean was/is a clever, crafty man by all accounts, is this somewhere not a case of fraud?
    It will all boil down to legalities and arguments over exact words as defined in law.


  • #34
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Cyrus wrote: »
    Also, to the poster that thinks that a few high fliers brought this country to is knees :rolleyes:

    just 10 people, are causing NAMA to take on 16 billion of debt run up by this "golden shower"

    "high fliers" is to kind a word


  • #35
    Cyrus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,209 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Biggins wrote: »
    He was moving very large sums of money from one bank account to another and back again on a regular basis to help inflate account figures and misrepresent yearly reports, etc, according to accounts of those far better than I to say such things - something like Nick Leeson was doing at one stage to cover his mistakes.
    If this is the case, and I know Sean was/is a clever, crafty man by all accounts, is this somewhere not a case of fraud?
    It will all boil down to legalities and arguments over exact words as defined in law.

    in that respect i would doubt that the practice was illegal, unethical definately, dishonest definately, will he be charged with an offence for it? i wouldnt have thought so.

    The hiding of his loans (at their peak they were 129m) wouldnt have done anything to improve anglos seemingly impressive results at those times, it was done more to circumvent disclosure requirements re related parties etc.


  • #36
    jmayo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    MaceFace wrote: »
    Fantastic news.

    I hope that this development will go someway towards quelling the conspiracy theorists that exist in certain peoples heads (looks around suspiciously)

    Of course, this should have been done a long time ago, but better late than never.
    Now, lets hope the move through the legal process is more swift wioth Seannie as well as moving on to all others who may have acted inappropriately.

    Listen they have only him in for questioning, we don't know if any charges will be filed against him and if they are we sure as hell don't know if he will ever get any prision time.

    And before you accuse me of conspiracy theories, just remember seanie was buddies with a lot of very influential people in this country.
    He also had a part in some highly contentious decisions (i.e. DDDA) involving government bodies, his bank, councils and some very well connected people.

    If seanie were to start singing about his past some people might start getting a little worried.

    I am not allowed discuss …



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  • #37
    Cyrus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,209 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    just 10 people, are causing NAMA to take on 16 billion of debt run up by this "golden shower"

    "high fliers" is to kind a word

    and thats the extent of our problems? i would have thought the annual public sector wage bill is of greater concern


  • #38
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Cyrus wrote: »
    in that respect i would doubt that the practice was illegal, unethical definately, dishonest definately, will he be charged with an offence for it? i wouldnt have thought so.

    The hiding of his loans (at their peak they were 129m) wouldnt have done anything to improve anglos seemingly impressive results at those times, it was done more to circumvent disclosure requirements re related parties etc.

    Thats why it will boil down to very tight legal wording disputes.
    Sean will hire the best of the best - so if he sees a day in prison upon being found guilty of something, I'd be very surprised indeed.


  • #39
    Cyrus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,209 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Biggins wrote: »
    Thats why it will boil down to very tight legal wording disputes.
    Sean will hire the best of the best - so if he sees a day in prison upon being found guilty of something, I'd be very surprised indeed.

    i will be surprised too, it irks me somewhat to see journalists and the general public jump on this jail the bankers bandwagon.

    im no apologist for them, but poor business practices dont normally constitute a crime, at least not one that will land you in jail.


  • #40
    BoardsRanger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 706 ✭✭✭BoardsRanger


    Mr. Incognito wrote: »
    There has NEVER been a conviction for white collar crime in this country.

    Here's hoping.

    This nonsense has to be rooted out once and for all.

    Frank Dunlop?


  • #41
    Mr. Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    in that respect i would doubt that the practice was illegal, unethical definately, dishonest definately, will he be charged with an offence for it? i wouldnt have thought so.

    The hiding of his loans (at their peak they were 129m) wouldnt have done anything to improve anglos seemingly impressive results at those times, it was done more to circumvent disclosure requirements re related parties etc.

    The practice is called "teaming and lading" and is most definetly illegal.

    ALthough I have not seen the evidence he could be charged on misleading investors, personal gain from a fiduciary position, misappropriation of funds, FRAUD, conspiracy, etc etc.

    There is no tight legal argument here. There are definite legal breaches here.


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  • #42
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Cyrus wrote: »
    i will be surprised too, it irks me somewhat to see journalists and the general public jump on this jail the bankers bandwagon.

    im no apologist for them, but poor business practices dont normally constitute a crime, at least not one that will land you in jail.
    Aye, guilty of lack of morals and stupidity definitely.
    Sadly, thats not to easy to put into law on the statute books. :(


  • #43
    ART6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭ART6


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    just 10 people, are causing NAMA to take on 16 billion of debt run up by this "golden shower"

    "high fliers" is to kind a word

    Vultures are high fliers too, so the title is appropriate;)
    Cyrus wrote: »
    i will be surprised too, it irks me somewhat to see journalists and the general public jump on this jail the bankers bandwagon.

    im no apologist for them, but poor business practices dont normally constitute a crime, at least not one that will land you in jail.

    There's a big difference between poor business practices that are the result of incompetence and those that are a deliberate attempt to deceive. In seeking to inflate the share value of the bank, it appears that he deliberately set out to deceive the markets and the shareholders.


  • #44
    Cyrus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,209 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Mr. Incognito wrote: »
    The practice is called "teaming and lading" and is most definetly illegal.

    ALthough I have not seen the evidence he could be charged on misleading investors, personal gain from a fiduciary position, misappropriation of funds, FRAUD, conspiracy, etc etc.

    There is no tight legal argument here. There are definite legal breaches here.

    explain to me how he was teeming and lading?

    he took out loans with the bank to make certain investments and he has failed to repay these loans.

    Prior to year end he took out another loan with another institution, repaid these loans and after year end he drew down these loans again and repaid the 2nd institution.

    the issue was the non disclosure of these directors or related party loans, i cannot fathom where the teeming and lading is?


  • #45
    Cyrus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,209 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    ART6 wrote: »
    Vultures are high fliers too, so the title is appropriate;)



    There's a big difference between poor business practices that are the result of incompetence and those that are a deliberate attempt to deceive. In seeking to inflate the share value of the bank, it appears that he deliberately set out to deceive the markets and the shareholders.

    again i will make the point, at a time when anglo had loan books in the billions and profits apparently in the billions, how in gods name would the cover up of €100m on the loan book affect the share price?


  • #46
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Cyrus wrote: »
    and thats the extent of our problems? i would have thought the annual public sector wage bill is of greater concern

    the public sector wages and welfare are two other problems among many many problems this country has

    but that's a subject of another thread(s)


  • #47
    scr123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭scr123


    If all the people who have cheated the State over last 40 years walked into government offices tomorrow and coughed up what they owe the national debt would be cleared, the budget deficit would be eliminated, no need to borrow for NAMA and there would be plenty in the kitty to start a stimulas.

    If all those involved were charged with the crimes they committed we would have to build galores of prisons.

    Now, if these extraordinary things happened how many of us could claim we didnt know one person involved ?

    The "high fliers" may be guilty and deserve what they get but are the "low fliers" to be exempt from prosecution ?


  • #48
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Mr. Incognito wrote: »
    The practice is called "teaming and lading" and is most definetly illegal.

    ALthough I have not seen the evidence he could be charged on misleading investors, personal gain from a fiduciary position, misappropriation of funds, FRAUD, conspiracy, etc etc.

    There is no tight legal argument here. There are definite legal breaches here.

    im not a lawyer

    but from what my accountant told me, anyone being a director and moving a large amount of money around and taking on "personal" loans above a certain amount is in a breach of Company Act > http://www.accountingnet.ie/law_regulation/1Complying_with_Company_Law_When_Giving_Loans_to_Directors_Connected_persons.php

    since we dont actually know details of what Sean did, and how much its hard to tell

    also the latest Company Bill of 2009 (did it pass) tightens up on this much more


    its unlikely that he would be charged for reckless lending, but him moving money around to make the bank appear better than it is might just land him in hot water, and who knows what else did the investigators find in last few years

    /


  • #49
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,782 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    I understand there are three different aspects to Anglo that the authoraties are investigating:
    1. Sean Fitz's personal loan of up to 117 million euro at one stage which I believe was transfered between various banks.
    2. The transfer of circa 7.5 billion off the balance sheet of Anglo before audits and transfer back in after audits. (not entirely sure what this was but anyway)
    3. The "golden circle" of ten who were approached by Anglo and lent money to buy angle shares.

    I beleve fitzpatrick will be questioned about all three aspects as he possibly would be at the center of 2 and 3 as well as one.
    Issue one appear to be an undeclared interest or something similiar which probably goes against corporate law. If it wasnt such a big deal why transfer the loans in the first place? There was obviously something underhanded that he wanted to hide.
    Issue two looks to be at best "massaging the figures" and as such misleading shareholders and stakeholders in the bank. I would hope this is against some company law.
    Issue three is very blatently some form of insider trading, never mind the absurdness of the bank approaching and lending money to these guys in the first place.
    All of the above is roughly correct in my believe and this questioning isnt just about issue 1.


    I hope that people do go to jail over what has happened, but more importantly I hope we've all learned not to trust these guys so much ever again.
    Fitz will no doubt hire the best legal minds and get off scot free as will a number of these guys although one has to has how can the guy afford the best legal aid when he is 70 million or so in debt...............will free legal aid help him, or will he use money he technically owes, us, the taxpayer, to get himself out of a pickle?


  • #50
    Pot Noodle =
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Pot Noodle =


    So it will get brushed under the table then


  • #51
    Drumpot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    Pot wrote:
    So it will get brushed under the table then

    If guards pass sensitive information onto certain people in politics, theres no reason to believe that people in power cannot bend their ears if needs be . .

    Cynical . . Yes I am, but what reason have I got not to be ? (awful grammer, my english teacher would be ashamed ! !)


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