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Hi all, we have some important news to share. Please follow the link here to find out more!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058419143/important-news/p1?new=1

Cardinal will only step down if told by Pope

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Comments

  • #92
    Winty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Winty


    Ultravid wrote: »
    Gospel of St Luke, chapter 12.:p


    I am only interested in Brady being charged by an Irish Law Court not some magic book


  • #93
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Those families are separate individual cases, that's like saying most abuse is committed by humans lets lock all humans up or all dogs hate cats, racists..

    It's almost like saying all Catholics are to blame for child abuse..isn't it.:rolleyes:


  • #94
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    hooradiation wrote: »
    Isn't this the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

    Even the Pope isn't a Catholic now.:eek:


  • #95
    andreab
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22 ✭andreab


    Perverting the cause of justcie is a crime and in these cases a very seriuos one. These sicko's were protected by the church and their crimes continued.

    As a catholic who attends mass regularly I think it is about time that the heads of the church here become accountable for their neglect and criminal charges should be raised against them.

    And it's not like the pope will tell him to resign, after all this weekend we found out that he is also guilty of the same offense.

    He should step aside as well!


  • #96
    Mr. Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    No. 1) There are two collections during mass. One is for the priests of the parish, and one is for the sick and poor of the parish. The second collection is the reason why the Catholic church is the biggest charity in the world.

    Says who? The Bill and Milenda Gates Foundation is the biggest charity in the world. One is for the priests and one for the sick and poor? Really? I thought we had hospitals and the dole these days.
    No. 2) Although the church is the last place any abuse should occur, it is not fair to condemn all Catholics and all priests in general for what has been committed by a small number of lay people and clergy. Do not forget that the vast majority of abuse is committed within the home, by ordinary men and women. Should we "f*ck" all parents? And "f*ck" all uncles and aunts? hmmm?

    This is a moot point. Statistically most abuse occurs in the home, yes. However when this abuse comes to light the perpertrator is not sent to stay with cousins with young children. They are reported to the police by family members. The difference is the Church RESPONSE to the abuse when it came to light and indeed is what this thread is about. We don't blame innocent priests. We blame church leaders that sought to bury and cover this up and have made clear that their loyalties lie with the church rather than the decent right rule of law.
    No. 3) Its the government, not the Church, that is paying for most of the damages to abuse victims.

    Why is this a positive thing??!! The church should have every asset it has sold off to pay these abuse victims. That would be justice, instead of my tax contributions.


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  • #97
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    CokaColumbo wrote: »
    No. 1) There are two collections during mass. One is for the priests of the parish, and one is for the sick and poor of the parish. The second collection is the reason why the Catholic church is the biggest charity in the world.

    No. 2) Although the church is the last place any abuse should occur, it is not fair to condemn all Catholics and all priests in general for what has been committed by a small number of lay people and clergy. Do not forget that the vast majority of abuse is committed within the home, by ordinary men and women. Should we "f*ck" all parents? And "f*ck" all uncles and aunts? hmmm?

    No. 3) Its the government, not the Church, that is paying for most of the damages to abuse victims.



    Spot on.

    Did you actually think about any of that before you wrote it?

    (1) The catholic church is obscenely wealthy, from these church colections one would assume. I visited the vatican only 2 months ago and it turned my stomach to see the wealth in the place, it's nothing short of disgusting.

    (2) Abuse does of course occur in the home and in all other places, but when such abuse is exposed it is rarely if ever accompanied by a vast conspiracy of silence and hypochrisy. The catholic church is basically the worlds biggest paedophile ring. And yes, any uncle or father who abuses their kids or any kids should be f.ucked, preferably with a rusty chainsaw

    (3) The government has no money but ours and i for one am disgusted at it being used as a dig out to the worlds largest paedophile ring. However the state were complicit in many cases and so should also pay, but only when every last art work etc has been hocked and the sick pervert bishops and cardinals are taking the f.ucking luas home from work to their s.hit hole bedsits, not crying poverty while being chauffer driven to their mansions.


  • #98
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,788 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    prinz wrote: »
    It's almost like saying all Catholics are to blame for child abuse..isn't it.:rolleyes:
    Your right I am going a bit OTT, it's the same argument used against drug users being blamed for all drug related crime because they fund the criminals. I just don't under stand why anyone would want to continue being Catholic after hearing what happened, you don't need to follow that particular vain of Christianity there are other Catholic churches out there.


  • #99
    super_furry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,365 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    You can look at the whole thing from a number of view points, but what it boils down to is the fact that the most senior member of the Catholic Church knew that Brendan Smyth was a child mollester. He was also present at a meeting where two of Smyth's victims were coercerced into signing an 'oath of silence', aimed at covering Smyth's crimes.

    Smyth would go on to rape, abuse and mollest an estimated 90 children and Sean Brady does not believe that his silence and his role in covering up Smyth's crimes, or his failure to lift a finger to help prevent Smyth's abuse, are serious enough to warrant his resignation.


  • #100
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    dvpower wrote: »
    .
    [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]

    [/FONT][/FONT]

    I wasnt aware of that. How long has this system been in place and how many members of the public had their suspicons of clerical child abuse that didnt report it.

    If this isnt adhered to what sanctions are there?

    If the reports that Barry Andrews is sitting is anything on then this system isnt working either


  • #101
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    super_furry wrote: »
    You can look at the whole thing from a number of view points, but what it boils down to is the fact that the most senior member of the Catholic Church knew that Brendan Smyth was a child mollester. He was also present at a meeting where two of Smyth's victims were coercerced into signing an 'oath of silence', aimed at covering Smyth's crimes.

    Smyth would go on to rape, abuse and mollest an estimated 90 children and Sean Brady does not believe that his silence and his role in covering up Smyth's crimes, or his failure to lift a finger to help prevent Smyth's abuse, are serious enough to warrant his resignation.

    While all that may be true, if he feels that it doesnt merit his resignation how can we expect anythinglike charges to arise


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  • #102
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    andreab wrote: »
    Perverting the cause of justcie is a crime and in these cases a very seriuos one. These sicko's were protected by the church and their crimes continued.

    As a catholic who attends mass regularly I think it is about time that the heads of the church here become accountable for their neglect and criminal charges should be raised against them.

    And it's not like the pope will tell him to resign, after all this weekend we found out that he is also guilty of the same offense.

    He should step aside as well!

    Have they actually perverted the course of Justice? Wasnt Brendan Smyh convicted eventually? Admittedly through no help of the catholic church but he was convicted


  • #103
    super_furry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,365 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    orourkeda wrote: »
    While all that may be true, if he feels that it doesnt merit his resignation how can we expect anythinglike charges to arise

    We can't, which is why I'm done with the catholic 'church'. They don't care about the pain and abuse they've inflicted on their victims.


  • #104
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    super_furry wrote: »
    We can't, which is why I'm done with the catholic 'church'. They don't care about the pain and abuse they've inflicted on their victims.

    Neither do any other child abusers. Thats just how they operate


  • #105
    Lux23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Now I have heard plenty of ancedotal evidence that Cardinal Brady is a decent man and is doing his best to right the wrongs of the past but the fact that Fr Smyth went on to rape other children after Brady had sat in at these meetings really does make him an accomplice in my eyes. I have many other thoughts flowing around my head but all this makes me so angry I can' think straight.

    I just read a piece on the Irish Times website and its says that Brady said that Smyth went on to abuse other children because others didn't do their duty. What kind of person doesn't realise that as a human being it is everyone's duty to protect a child from harm?

    I will not get married in a Catholic Church and my children will not be baptised into an institution that is rotten to the core.


  • #106
    Winty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Winty


    Lux23 wrote: »
    I will not get married in a Catholic Church and my children will not be baptised into an institution that is rotten to the core.


    Last May my wife and I (both catholics) got married in a Church of England Church in Faro Portugal. A magic day made better with great help from the Reverend and his Wife.

    Well worth It


  • #107
    super_furry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,365 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    Just listening to Newstalk now, and those bullied into signing that 'oath of secrecy' in front of Brady and his two cronies, were still only children at the time.


  • #108
    Outrage
    Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭Outrage


    Winty wrote: »
    Last May my wife and I (both catholics) got married in a Church of England Church in Faro Portugal. A magic day made better with great help from the Reverend and his Wife.

    Well worth It

    So what do you think of the Pope's latest apostolic constitution aimed at inviting Anglicans to have a closer union with the Catholic Church then? When all the High Anglicans (and I have heard some excellent High Anglican sermons in my time I might add) break away, I suppose you'll be left on the side with all the gay vicars, lesbian bishops and happy-clappy guitar-singing folk groups. Good riddance.


  • #109
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    But it'd be nice if there were a few sheep left.


  • #110
    super_furry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,365 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    Outrage wrote: »
    The Church is better off without wolves in her flock.

    Which is why Brady and the rest of his cronies must go.

    Nice edit there, but not quite quick enough.


  • #111
    Outrage
    Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭Outrage


    humanji wrote: »
    But it'd be nice if there were a few sheep left.

    You surround yourself with Church-haters (by logging on to the ooh so liberal boards.ie). You probably haven't got a clue about Catholicism apart from the filth you pick up in the Sunday Independent (as written by a prophetic Church-hater). Go educate yourself.


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  • #112
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,788 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Outrage wrote: »
    You surround yourself with Church-haters (by logging on to the ooh so liberal boards.ie). You probably haven't got a clue about Catholicism apart from the filth you pick up in the Sunday Independent (as written by a prophetic Church-hater). Go educate yourself.
    You might be able to say that if it wasn't for the fact most of us where raised Catholic and left for a reason. We do know what the Church is like from the inside out, I was an alterboy, I was the catholic church!!


  • #113
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Outrage wrote: »
    You probably haven't got a clue about Catholicism apart from the filth you pick up in the Sunday Independent

    For other filth about the catholic church, read the Ryan or Murphy reports.


  • #114
    Lux23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Outrage wrote: »
    You surround yourself with Church-haters (by logging on to the ooh so liberal boards.ie). You probably haven't got a clue about Catholicism apart from the filth you pick up in the Sunday Independent (as written by a prophetic Church-hater). Go educate yourself.

    Either do you by the sounds of it.


  • #115
    Blackhorse Slim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Blackhorse Slim


    Outrage wrote: »
    So what do you think of the Pope's latest apostolic constitution aimed at inviting Anglicans to have a closer union with the Catholic Church then? When all the High Anglicans (and I have heard some excellent High Anglican sermons in my time I might add) break away, I suppose you'll be left on the side with all the gay vicars, lesbian bishops and happy-clappy guitar-singing folk groups. Good riddance.

    So being gay, lesbian, COE or playing guitar is bad, but allowing the rape of children is fine? :confused:

    As a guitar player, I'm offended.


  • #116
    Outrage
    Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭Outrage


    The Cardinal is staying put. He will live out his days firm in the knowledge that he has served the Church and done the will of God to the best of his abilities and will be rewarded when he enters the kingdom of heaven.

    Stone-throwing in glasshouses comes to mind: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055844760 A truly ironic statistic for such a bunch of idiots on their little hobby-horses. The clergy are on the ground, working hard and dealing with the fallout from the perverted Irish (including putting their hands in their pockets) - what are you lot doing apart from cribbing and moaning and using the situation to further your Church-hating agendas?


  • #117
    Outrage
    Closed Accounts Posts: 172 ✭✭Outrage


    Blackhorse Slim wrote: »
    So being gay, lesbian, COE or playing guitar is bad, but allowing the rape of children is fine? :confused:

    Lol. Funny how boys were 230% more likely to be abused than girls. And yes, I put most of the blame on sexual perverts within the Church. And yes, I regard the desire to have bum sex as a perversion (as do most people on this planet, not just the 1 billion Catholics).


  • #118
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    ScumLord wrote: »
    You might be able to say that if it wasn't for the fact most of us where raised Catholic and left for a reason. We do know what the Church is like from the inside out, I was an alterboy, I was the catholic church!!

    I like to hear a success story.
    Started out a lowly alter boy but fought his way up to be ScumLord!
    I see a movie in this my boy:)


  • #119
    Lux23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Outrage wrote: »
    Lol. Funny how boys were 230% more likely to be abused than girls. And yes, I put most of the blame on sexual perverts within the Church. And yes, I regard the desire to have bum sex as a perversion (as do most people on this planet, not just the 1 billion Catholics).


    So tell us what you think should be done to atone for all the things done by people in the Catholic Church?


  • #120
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Outrage wrote: »
    The clergy are on the ground, working hard and dealing with the fallout from the perverted Irish
    Are you one of those trolls we keep hearing about?


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  • #121
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Outrage wrote: »
    . And yes, I regard the desire to have bum sex as a perversion (as do most people on this planet, not just the 1 billion Catholics).

    A lot of priests would disagree with you! They see it more as a perk of the job as far as i can tell


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