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Ireland: European "capital" of cigarette smuggling

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭thetonynator


    Just the odd pack of smokes, what harm?
    almost everyone i know that smokes buy the smuggled fags . . .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    dermo88 wrote: »
    1. Like Singapore, on the bottom of each cigarette produced or manufactured for sale, a print:

    "Irish Government, Duty Paid, for sale in the Republic of Ireland"

    This would distinguish legal versus illegal tobacco.
    There's already a duty-paid sticker.
    2. A tax reduction bringing it in line with comparable European countries, such as France, Germany, Italy and the United Kingdom. The Government tend to forget that we are in a currency union, and that this causes comparisons with other countries in the Eurozone. I reckon the retail price should be around 5.50 Euro per pack of 20. ASH would go crazy, but at this stage, most of the measures to create a reasonable smoke free environment have been implemented. There is not much else that can be done, and it is draconian as it is.
    That still won't change the fact that they're easily got for 1-2 euros in Latvia etc.
    3. Ban vending machines.
    How will that change things?
    4. No direct displays of tobacco behind shop counters.
    This has already happened, meaning you have to squint at a tiny typewritten sheet just to see what's on sale.
    The indirect taxes rose excessively during the boom period. This was all well and good where an addicted smoker would just shell out 7 or 8 Euro a pack. Now its different, and other measures are required.
    We have entered an era like prohibition, where laws are being flouted and ignored. When we reach that juncture, common sense needs to prevail.
    Both flouted AND ignored? Wow.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭Prof.Badass


    Still don't see why they can't let nicotine gum/inhalers/lozenges etc be sold alongside tobacco in shops. Loosening the current restrictions would push the prices down to competitive levels and over time I'm guessing a lot of long-term smokers would make the switch.

    If you really cared about public health (and not gaining extra revenue or improving your political image) then this seems like an obvious step to take.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,783 ✭✭✭Hank_Jones


    vinylmesh wrote: »
    Still don't see why they can't let nicotine gum/inhalers/lozenges etc be sold alongside tobacco in shops. Loosening the current restrictions would push the prices down to competitive levels and over time I'm guessing a lot of long-term smokers would make the switch.

    If you really cared about public health (and not gaining extra revenue or improving your political image) then this seems like an obvious step to take.

    It's like 8 euro for a pack of 20 (I think) and think of how much of that goes to the government. A large portion I would think.
    A large number of the population smoke, the government don't actually want people to quit.
    This isn't Britain, ie getting people to quit smoking isn't going to affect the national coffers. As our health care isn't free, like in Britain.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 134 ✭✭drusk


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    I apologise.

    Christ on a cross, it's AH.

    It's tongue in cheek ffs.

    PM a Mod if you want the Poll changed.

    I'm off out.


    Sorry OutlawPete. Just re-read my post and realised how ridiculously pedantic I am!

    This is AH, and I didn't mean to come across as such a w*nker! My apologies.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,938 ✭✭✭caseyann


    Always funny watching the Irish border control programme.And funny enough what you know 8 out of ten are non Irish getting caught bringing them in.In trouser legs and sleeves of jackets lol comical to see them caught:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 884 ✭✭✭ya-ba-da-ba-doo


    Where's the option for: No, but i have no problem with it??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭citizen_p


    "my friend" downloads movies and songs
    songs because hes not buying an album of an artist who only has 1 or 2 songs he like.

    movies cos he can get them quicker than they come out on dvd.

    ive never bought cheap ciggaretes but i know ppl that do. never got into smoking, tried it, didnt get anything from it.....no buzz etc...so i drink :)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Should be another poll option "Don't buy smuggled goods but do access the net for the occasional download" ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭citizen_p


    There is nothing better than coming home with your spoils of your trip abroad. Sparking up a Spanish John Player Blue(3.50 euro a pack) and saying a big fook you to our Fianna Fail over lords.

    One of the finer things in life.:cool:
    you need to go to turkey....60 cent a pack


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    drusk wrote: »
    Sorry OutlawPete. Just re-read my post and realised how ridiculously pedantic I am!

    This is AH, and I didn't mean to come across as such a w*nker! My apologies.

    No bother, I've said worse.

    I was venting at everyone complaining about the Poll options, not just yourself :)

    Not the greatest Poll options, tis true.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 578 ✭✭✭the_barfly1


    Any boards members going on a short break in europe anytime soon?
    Could do with a few hundred smokes... :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭dermo88


    No, I don't and anyone that does needs a kick up the arse.
    goose2005

    Anyone can remove illegal cigarettes and repackage them in a Johnny Blue box to evade detection. What I meant was a print around the band on the cigarette above the filter, where the brand name normally is. To me, that would be a foolproof way of indicating which cigarettes were duty paid or otherwise. Not that I should be giving those ba$tards ideas on how to catch us smokers, but thats not going to stop them.

    http://globalvoicesonline.org/2008/09/12/singapore-new-rule-for-cigarettes/

    I do accept that Singapores circumstances are far different to those prevailing in Ireland, apart from one aspect. The Island location.

    Perhaps a wiser move (long term) could be towards a coordinated tax strategy on tobacco across the European Union.

    However, we have to consider that many attempts throughout history have been made to ban drugs, alcohol, gambling, tobacco, and other aspects of the human lifestyle, good, bad and indifferent. Take todays attitudes towards homosexuality, divorce, contraception, etc, against those prevalent 30 years ago. Compare and contrast that to the attitudes prevalent in 1979 about smoking and drinking.

    I would say that we are more accepting of homosexuality, divorce and contraception, more accepting of drinking, definitely far less accepting of smoking, and thats no bad thing.

    There does come a point in time where the pendulum of self righteous indignation can swing too far in one direction and a backlash takes place.

    At some point in time, people will start growing their own tobacco plants, just as they are going now with cannibis. The Governments who make these rules and regulations, and make these taxes have no clue of reality on the streets, or reality for the average person.

    So to paraphrase Frank Gallagher....

    "Make poverty history, cheaper fags now"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭TPD


    I've brought back tobacco from Spain for friends before. €4.30 for a 12.5g pack in the shops, or €5 for four times as much from me (at 100% profit, might I add). They didn't spend too long debating it.

    I also download things I shouldn't like a mad cnut too. However, if the content producers were to implement a download service that's easier than illegal downloads, and not ridiculously expensive (say €5 for a DRM-free film, 7-10 for a new release), I'd be all for it.



    Disclaimer: all of the above are lies! Dirty lies!

    <.<

    >.>


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭Herbal Deity


    Some cinema DVDs and I illegally download movies too.
    dermo88 wrote: »
    Anyone can remove illegal cigarettes and repackage them in a Johnny Blue box to evade detection. What I meant was a print around the band on the cigarette above the filter, where the brand name normally is. To me, that would be a foolproof way of indicating which cigarettes were duty paid or otherwise.
    What? So customs would open every packet and inspect the individual cigarettes?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81 ✭✭Lizzzard


    No, I don't and anyone that does needs a kick up the arse.
    I pay enough fcuking tax every single week so I feel like I should be entitled to not letting those bsatards have more of my money by buying illegally imported cigs.

    I also download movies illegally and don't feel bad in the slightest about doing either.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭dermo88


    No, I don't and anyone that does needs a kick up the arse.
    The only way its likely to happen is to have duty free tobacco completely banned, and only have the tax paid option available. This, coupled with very stringent checks at land and sea entry points. This is something I don't regard as feasible, and it would actually be more trouble than its worth.

    Considering the ordeal that International Airline travel is these days, I don't think thats very likely.

    Plus, people can smuggle them in by landroutes using the Bus Eireann Eurolines network. I could easily get in 10,000 cigarettes by that route alone, if I was so inclined, and had the patience for a 3 or 4 day Bus journey.

    The only rational solution is to cut the tax back to the average levels applicable to a country with our size and cost of living. If our healths services justified Scandinavian levels of sin taxes, then fine.

    But they bloody well don't, and thats why smokers and others are defying the Government. ASH and the likes of Harney, Cowen and Lenihan should realise that.

    Honest taxes mean honest taxpayers.

    Write that 100 times children.

    Until it sinks in.

    Anyway, I'm off to smoke a nice Malaysian Dunhill.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Just the odd pack of smokes, what harm?
    A lot of misconceptions about "smuggling" within the EU
    The Import of (theoretically unlimited quantities of) tobacco from non-accession states for personal use is legal however above certain guideline amounts customs can demand proof that it is really for personal use (How exactly one proves something like this is rather unclear)
    "Personal use" does not include use by friends/family (even if one isint profiting from it)
    non-accession states = Countries which have been in the EU for more than seven years

    There are maximum quantities for imports from (most) accession states, Non EU states and Duty free. If one exceeds these limits they are supposed to declare it to customs and pay the necessary import duties.

    Having the stuff posted over is theoretically a grey area since one could claim it was unsolicited although it would be a hard one to argue in court and either way the stuff is liable to be siezed at the very least.
    Biggins wrote: »
    Should be another poll option "Don't buy smuggled goods but do access the net for the occasional download" ;)

    I dont see how the two are related other than being illegal (sometimes in the case of downloads) and lumping them together solely on the grounds of illegality makes about as much sense as lumping being a day late renewing ones car tax with serial killing.
    dermo88 wrote: »
    The only way its likely to happen is to have duty free tobacco completely banned
    Smuggled tobacco does not necessairly have to originate from a duty free shop.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 477 ✭✭Sunset V


    No, I don't and anyone that does needs a kick up the arse.
    Sorry for dragging this up again but I agree and disagree with a lot of points here but there's one issue that hasn't been raised. The roll of the legitimate Irish retailer in this. They can't do anything about price, they have their guidelines and they sell accordingly. Cigarettes would be a fair proportion of their income and when people are buying from abroad it has to be having a serious affect on the retail trade?

    Sorry for dragging this up but I think it's a fair point but I free to be torn apart on this one!!:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 499 ✭✭Beanmachine


    No Surprise considering cigarettes here are the most expensive in europe


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Sunset V wrote: »
    Sorry for dragging this up again but I agree and disagree with a lot of points here but there's one issue that hasn't been raised. The roll of the legitimate Irish retailer in this. They can't do anything about price, they have their guidelines and they sell accordingly. Cigarettes would be a fair proportion of their income and when people are buying from abroad it has to be having a serious affect on the retail trade?

    Sorry for dragging this up but I think it's a fair point but I free to be torn apart on this one!!:)

    Cigarrette's... sure they sell for alot, but the profit in the shop isn't worth their while unless the customer decided to get something else while there for a pack.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 477 ✭✭Sunset V


    No, I don't and anyone that does needs a kick up the arse.
    Cigarrette's... sure they sell for alot, but the profit in the shop isn't worth their while unless the customer decided to get something else while there for a pack.

    Yeah the Government take about 80 percent from the price read once. The only reason I bring it up is that I saw a group called retailers against smuggling a few weeks back who are solely set up to try and stamp out smuggling. must be at epic proportions for shop keepers


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,589 ✭✭✭✭dsmythy


    Just the odd pack of smokes, what harm?
    What sort of "smuggling" are we talking? People bringing large amounts home with them from their holidays or international criminals making their living off it? One i see no problem with, the other i might do.
    Lizzzard wrote: »
    I pay enough fcuking tax every single week so I feel like I should be entitled to not letting those bsatards have more of my money by buying illegally imported cigs.

    I also download movies illegally and don't feel bad in the slightest about doing either.

    I'll try avoid subsidised education and healthcare so. Sorry about that!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 477 ✭✭Sunset V


    No, I don't and anyone that does needs a kick up the arse.
    dsmythy wrote: »
    What sort of "smuggling are we talking? People bringing large amounts home with them from their holidays or international criminals making their living off it? One i see no problem with, the other i might do.

    Yeah I don't know the mechanics behind it really at all. I don;'t know if it's huge container loads or fellas with suitcases that are doing the most "harm"!


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