Ireland: European "capital" of cigarette smuggling

OutlawPete

Consumer report says that a quarter of all cigarettes smoked here are illegal and labels us European capital of cigarette smuggling.

Smoking in Ireland fell sharply after the workplace ban and we briefly led the world in anti-smoking measures. Six years on, the country is a tobacco smuggling blackspot, and a quarter of cigarettes smoked here are illegal.

Do you buy smuggled cigarettes or other goods?

If so, why and do you feel any remorse or guilt in doing so?

Source

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Don't smoke - very thankful for it - and not bloody surprised people are buying the imports, given the tax.

df1985

No, I don't and anyone that does needs a kick up the arse.

a direct result of the price of them here. hardly worth your while if ya lived in spain to smuggle them in!

i only smoke after a few drinks/semi pissed but if i was a heavy smoker id be filling my suitcase, wouldnt feel any guilt in doing so.

mikom

I like smuggled peanuts.

Dave!

Those poll options are pretty poor

They remind me of a Mitch Hedberg joke about filling in a questionaire for a job.

"Do you like sugar, or, PCP?"

biko

A pack of smokes is twice as expensive in Ireland as in Sweden, of course people will buy smuggled fags, it's cheaper that way.
Or take a flight to Spain over the weekend and stock up. You're allowed pretty much as much as you can carry within EU.

OutlawPete

Dave! wrote: »

Those poll options are pretty poor

What option were you looking for?

Wazdakka

What an ingenious poll..

Were on to you Mr customs officer... I'm not answering.

Dave!

OutlawPete wrote: »

What option were you looking for?

Well I don't buy smuggled smokes but don't think people who do should be kicked up the arse ! And I don't buy smuggled DVDs but I do download sh*t malegally !

I don't think I can vote !

OutlawPete

Dave! wrote: »

Well I don't buy smuggled smokes but don't think people who do should be kicked up the arse ! And I don't buy smuggled DVDs but I do download sh*t malegally !

I don't think I can vote !

That's how I felt at the last election, so just pick whichever option is closest.

Option No seems to be the one and you have posted you download movies, so all is good.

jumpguy

Just the odd pack of smokes, what harm?

Poor border control + highly inflated price for cigarettes = how can we be surprised?

Government have two choices...increase the border control's capacity, which would be very costly, or reduce the price of cigarettes to maybe 6 Euro and therefore increase their revenue as more people buy cigarettes (yes, by decreasing tax they might increase their net revenue).

I don't smoke btw...but if this is the case, something more than tutting must be done. The profits from illegal ciggies go straight back to crime.

msg11

Some cinema DVDs and I illegally download movies too.

The price is sky high here. Because they need the money for the health care system, Emmm which has failed.

When smokers do need to use it, Emmm it will fail some more.

Hike the price of the fags up and say it's for health care. Got to love it, me hole it's for the banks and the goverments pockets. Ye, it can kill you. But so can anything.

The price of fags. Look at the price of Petrol 1.25c , I heard before the mark up is near 60% tax. Ahh yeah save the enviroment.

If the goverment brought the tax down to earth, we might be able to buy something legally.

alwaysadub

Well i don't smoke,but i do download movies and songs. And when im in Spain or somewhere where smokes are a hell of a lot cheaper,i take orders for my mates and bring home as many as i can smuggle in..


/waits for customs to come banging the door down

Prof.Badass

Shit poll tbh. I don't smoke smuggled cigarettes because I don't smoke, but that doesn't stop me from giving my full endorsement to those who do. It's great to hear that so many people are not letting themselves be dicked around by the nanny-state.

OutlawPete

vinylmesh wrote: »

Shit poll tbh..

What option were YOU looking for :rolleyes:

If you support people buying them, click Yes .. it's not an exam.

Prof.Badass

OutlawPete wrote: »

What option were YOU looking for :rolleyes:

A simple no option perhaps. The only no option there is "No, I don't and anyone that does needs a kick up the arse" which doesn't apply to me because i think people who buy smuggled cigarettes are great.

If you support people buying them, click Yes .. it's not an exam.

I don't want to be seen as reading into this too much, but i think your poll takes the assumption that everyone who doesn't smoke is against illegal cigarettes or else doesn't care. Not saying you did this on purpose but there is an attitude in society of basing political views on self-interest rather than principle. For example, just because i'd never use a prostitute myself, doesn't mean i don't have strong feelings that those who wish to should be allowed to do so.

I'd like if basing views on principle was seen as the norm rather than basing views on self-interest.

Hank_Jones

I'm pleading the fifth with regards to the poll, for fear that I might incriminate myself.

I know a fair few eastern europeans and they always get their cigarettes sent over to them as it's much cheaper. Is that smuggling?
I have no problems with that, even if they are selling them to people they know.

If somebody is smuggling in cigarettes by the thousands, then I would probably have a bit of a problem with that, they are basically taking money out of this country's health, schooling systems etc. Plus if the cigarettes are counterfeit then who knows what is in them (not that ordinary cigarettes are that healthy, but they are regulated).

MaybeLogic

Crap poll, tbh.
Where's the 'I only smoke other people's, cause I'm too sting to buy my own' option?

Elenxor

Some cinema DVDs and I illegally download movies too.

.....a 'friend' of mine bought a pack on the street... it looked exactly like a shop bought pack, the taste on the other hand was vile, burning, and not in any shape or form like the real thing.

Xluna

Some cinema DVDs and I illegally download movies too.

OutlawPete wrote: »

do you feel any remorse or guilt in doing so?

Source

MaybeLogic

Elenxor wrote: »

and not in any shape or form like the real thing.

A wiggledy cigarette?

laugh

A combination of a long coastline and a massive amount of newly unemployed people?

Tellox

Nice try, customs office.

I'm actually giving up at the moment, and have cut down from 30 a day to a small (irish government taxed) pouch a week. Switching to patches on March 1st.

But when I was smoking 30 a day, smuggled all the way. Don't think I know anyone who bought smokes from a shop unless they were stuck. €8.50~ for smokes, or around €3-4 per pack.. yeah, no ta.

I also shop in the north whenever I can. **** "helping our economy". I won't sugarcoat what I'm doing - when it comes to my money, I only give a **** about how it's going to benefit me, not anybody else.

drusk

Why, when creating this poll, did you decide to choose what attitude responders might take?

The second option is "No, and anyone that does deserves a kick up the arse." What makes you think that people that want to vote 'No' will take the attitude that those that do deserve a kick up the arse? I don't smoke smuggled cigarettes, but I applaud those that do.

Why couldn't you have simply had 'Yes' or 'No' options?! Or instead asked, 'What's your attitude to people that smoke smuggled cigarettes?'

Your predisposed assumptions regarding each response makes this an utterly sh*t poll.

OutlawPete

drusk wrote: »

Why, when creating this poll, did you decide to choose what attitude responders might take?.

I apologise.

Christ on a cross, it's AH.

It's tongue in cheek ffs.

PM a Mod if you want the Poll changed.

I'm off out.

dermo88

No, I don't and anyone that does needs a kick up the arse.

While the intentions of the Government to eliminate the use of tobacco are noble, the policies used are extreme. It is also now clear that the Government only cares about the revenue, rather than the health of the populace.

The pendulum could swing too far in one direction, where excessive measures lead to smoking being used as an expression of rebellion, of individuality, irrespective of the health risks involved.

It is clear that some sensible measures are required.

1. Like Singapore, on the bottom of each cigarette produced or manufactured for sale, a print:

"Irish Government, Duty Paid, for sale in the Republic of Ireland"

This would distinguish legal versus illegal tobacco.

2. A tax reduction bringing it in line with comparable European countries, such as France, Germany, Italy and the United Kingdom. The Government tend to forget that we are in a currency union, and that this causes comparisons with other countries in the Eurozone. I reckon the retail price should be around 5.50 Euro per pack of 20. ASH would go crazy, but at this stage, most of the measures to create a reasonable smoke free environment have been implemented. There is not much else that can be done, and it is draconian as it is.

3. Ban vending machines.

4. No direct displays of tobacco behind shop counters.

The indirect taxes rose excessively during the boom period. This was all well and good where an addicted smoker would just shell out 7 or 8 Euro a pack. Now its different, and other measures are required.

We have entered an era like prohibition, where laws are being flouted and ignored. When we reach that juncture, common sense needs to prevail.

IrishManSaipan

Hank_Jones wrote: »

I know a fair few eastern europeans and they always get their cigarettes sent over to them as it's much cheaper. Is that smuggling?
I have no problems with that, even if they are selling them to people they know.

The government and big business had no problems availing of cheap labour from eastern europe and now they have the nerve to complain about the average joe availing of cheaper ciggies from eastern europe?

Ahhh diddums.:P

smellslikeshoes

I'm not a smoker but more power to the lads that go over and fill their suitcases for themselves. The government have brought this on themselves with the level of taxes on cigarettes.

DublinWriter

*sigh* This auld chestnut.

Ask any actuary and he/she/it will tell you that we smokers are beneficial to the national economy.

Why? Because a) we die younger, minimising government exposure to state pensions and b) we contribute 90% duty on the average pack of 20, that's right boys and girls, a pack of 20 cigarettes only costs about €1 to manufacture.

Now, back to the thread in hand. Would I buy counterfeit smokes in the Republic? I have, and I did, and they are vile. Nothing like the real thing and best avoided.

These days I just head over the border or take a cheap Ryanair flight.

IrishManSaipan

DublinWriter wrote: »

These days I just head over the border or take a cheap Ryanair flight.

There is nothing better than coming home with your spoils of your trip abroad. Sparking up a Spanish John Player Blue(3.50 euro a pack) and saying a big fook you to our Fianna Fail over lords.

One of the finer things in life.:cool:

ScumLord

I often don't have the option to buy illegal smokes when I need them. I buy rollies anyway there not to bad yet.

thetonynator

Just the odd pack of smokes, what harm?

almost everyone i know that smokes buy the smuggled fags . . .

goose2005

dermo88 wrote: »

1. Like Singapore, on the bottom of each cigarette produced or manufactured for sale, a print:

"Irish Government, Duty Paid, for sale in the Republic of Ireland"

This would distinguish legal versus illegal tobacco.

There's already a duty-paid sticker.

2. A tax reduction bringing it in line with comparable European countries, such as France, Germany, Italy and the United Kingdom. The Government tend to forget that we are in a currency union, and that this causes comparisons with other countries in the Eurozone. I reckon the retail price should be around 5.50 Euro per pack of 20. ASH would go crazy, but at this stage, most of the measures to create a reasonable smoke free environment have been implemented. There is not much else that can be done, and it is draconian as it is.

That still won't change the fact that they're easily got for 1-2 euros in Latvia etc.

3. Ban vending machines.

How will that change things?

4. No direct displays of tobacco behind shop counters.

This has already happened, meaning you have to squint at a tiny typewritten sheet just to see what's on sale.
The indirect taxes rose excessively during the boom period. This was all well and good where an addicted smoker would just shell out 7 or 8 Euro a pack. Now its different, and other measures are required.

We have entered an era like prohibition, where laws are being flouted and ignored. When we reach that juncture, common sense needs to prevail.

Both flouted AND ignored? Wow.

Prof.Badass

Still don't see why they can't let nicotine gum/inhalers/lozenges etc be sold alongside tobacco in shops. Loosening the current restrictions would push the prices down to competitive levels and over time I'm guessing a lot of long-term smokers would make the switch.

If you really cared about public health (and not gaining extra revenue or improving your political image) then this seems like an obvious step to take.

Hank_Jones

vinylmesh wrote: »

Still don't see why they can't let nicotine gum/inhalers/lozenges etc be sold alongside tobacco in shops. Loosening the current restrictions would push the prices down to competitive levels and over time I'm guessing a lot of long-term smokers would make the switch.

If you really cared about public health (and not gaining extra revenue or improving your political image) then this seems like an obvious step to take.

It's like 8 euro for a pack of 20 (I think) and think of how much of that goes to the government. A large portion I would think.
A large number of the population smoke, the government don't actually want people to quit.
This isn't Britain, ie getting people to quit smoking isn't going to affect the national coffers. As our health care isn't free, like in Britain.

drusk

OutlawPete wrote: »

I apologise.

Christ on a cross, it's AH.

It's tongue in cheek ffs.

PM a Mod if you want the Poll changed.

I'm off out.

Sorry OutlawPete. Just re-read my post and realised how ridiculously pedantic I am!

This is AH, and I didn't mean to come across as such a w*nker! My apologies.

caseyann

Always funny watching the Irish border control programme.And funny enough what you know 8 out of ten are non Irish getting caught bringing them in.In trouser legs and sleeves of jackets lol comical to see them caught:D

ya-ba-da-ba-doo

Where's the option for: No, but i have no problem with it??

citizen_p

"my friend" downloads movies and songs
songs because hes not buying an album of an artist who only has 1 or 2 songs he like.

movies cos he can get them quicker than they come out on dvd.

ive never bought cheap ciggaretes but i know ppl that do. never got into smoking, tried it, didnt get anything from it.....no buzz etc...so i drink

Biggins

Should be another poll option "Don't buy smuggled goods but do access the net for the occasional download"

citizen_p

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

There is nothing better than coming home with your spoils of your trip abroad. Sparking up a Spanish John Player Blue(3.50 euro a pack) and saying a big fook you to our Fianna Fail over lords.

One of the finer things in life.:cool:

you need to go to turkey....60 cent a pack

OutlawPete

drusk wrote: »

Sorry OutlawPete. Just re-read my post and realised how ridiculously pedantic I am!

This is AH, and I didn't mean to come across as such a w*nker! My apologies.

No bother, I've said worse.

I was venting at everyone complaining about the Poll options, not just yourself

Not the greatest Poll options, tis true.

the_barfly1

Any boards members going on a short break in europe anytime soon?
Could do with a few hundred smokes...

dermo88

No, I don't and anyone that does needs a kick up the arse.

goose2005

Anyone can remove illegal cigarettes and repackage them in a Johnny Blue box to evade detection. What I meant was a print around the band on the cigarette above the filter, where the brand name normally is. To me, that would be a foolproof way of indicating which cigarettes were duty paid or otherwise. Not that I should be giving those ba$tards ideas on how to catch us smokers, but thats not going to stop them.

http://globalvoicesonline.org/2008/09/12/singapore-new-rule-for-cigarettes/

I do accept that Singapores circumstances are far different to those prevailing in Ireland, apart from one aspect. The Island location.

Perhaps a wiser move (long term) could be towards a coordinated tax strategy on tobacco across the European Union.

However, we have to consider that many attempts throughout history have been made to ban drugs, alcohol, gambling, tobacco, and other aspects of the human lifestyle, good, bad and indifferent. Take todays attitudes towards homosexuality, divorce, contraception, etc, against those prevalent 30 years ago. Compare and contrast that to the attitudes prevalent in 1979 about smoking and drinking.

I would say that we are more accepting of homosexuality, divorce and contraception, more accepting of drinking, definitely far less accepting of smoking, and thats no bad thing.

There does come a point in time where the pendulum of self righteous indignation can swing too far in one direction and a backlash takes place.

At some point in time, people will start growing their own tobacco plants, just as they are going now with cannibis. The Governments who make these rules and regulations, and make these taxes have no clue of reality on the streets, or reality for the average person.

So to paraphrase Frank Gallagher....

"Make poverty history, cheaper fags now"

TPD

I've brought back tobacco from Spain for friends before. €4.30 for a 12.5g pack in the shops, or €5 for four times as much from me (at 100% profit, might I add). They didn't spend too long debating it.

I also download things I shouldn't like a mad cnut too. However, if the content producers were to implement a download service that's easier than illegal downloads, and not ridiculously expensive (say €5 for a DRM-free film, 7-10 for a new release), I'd be all for it.



Disclaimer: all of the above are lies! Dirty lies!

<.<

>.>

Herbal Deity

Some cinema DVDs and I illegally download movies too.

dermo88 wrote: »

Anyone can remove illegal cigarettes and repackage them in a Johnny Blue box to evade detection. What I meant was a print around the band on the cigarette above the filter, where the brand name normally is. To me, that would be a foolproof way of indicating which cigarettes were duty paid or otherwise.

What? So customs would open every packet and inspect the individual cigarettes?

Lizzzard

No, I don't and anyone that does needs a kick up the arse.

I pay enough fcuking tax every single week so I feel like I should be entitled to not letting those bsatards have more of my money by buying illegally imported cigs.

I also download movies illegally and don't feel bad in the slightest about doing either.

dermo88

No, I don't and anyone that does needs a kick up the arse.

The only way its likely to happen is to have duty free tobacco completely banned, and only have the tax paid option available. This, coupled with very stringent checks at land and sea entry points. This is something I don't regard as feasible, and it would actually be more trouble than its worth.

Considering the ordeal that International Airline travel is these days, I don't think thats very likely.

Plus, people can smuggle them in by landroutes using the Bus Eireann Eurolines network. I could easily get in 10,000 cigarettes by that route alone, if I was so inclined, and had the patience for a 3 or 4 day Bus journey.

The only rational solution is to cut the tax back to the average levels applicable to a country with our size and cost of living. If our healths services justified Scandinavian levels of sin taxes, then fine.

But they bloody well don't, and thats why smokers and others are defying the Government. ASH and the likes of Harney, Cowen and Lenihan should realise that.

Honest taxes mean honest taxpayers.

Write that 100 times children.

Until it sinks in.

Anyway, I'm off to smoke a nice Malaysian Dunhill.....

Mike 1972

Just the odd pack of smokes, what harm?

A lot of misconceptions about "smuggling" within the EU
The Import of (theoretically unlimited quantities of) tobacco from non-accession states for personal use is legal however above certain guideline amounts customs can demand proof that it is really for personal use (How exactly one proves something like this is rather unclear)
"Personal use" does not include use by friends/family (even if one isint profiting from it)
non-accession states = Countries which have been in the EU for more than seven years

There are maximum quantities for imports from (most) accession states, Non EU states and Duty free. If one exceeds these limits they are supposed to declare it to customs and pay the necessary import duties.

Having the stuff posted over is theoretically a grey area since one could claim it was unsolicited although it would be a hard one to argue in court and either way the stuff is liable to be siezed at the very least.

Biggins wrote: »

Should be another poll option "Don't buy smuggled goods but do access the net for the occasional download"

I dont see how the two are related other than being illegal (sometimes in the case of downloads) and lumping them together solely on the grounds of illegality makes about as much sense as lumping being a day late renewing ones car tax with serial killing.

dermo88 wrote: »

The only way its likely to happen is to have duty free tobacco completely banned

Smuggled tobacco does not necessairly have to originate from a duty free shop.

Sunset V

No, I don't and anyone that does needs a kick up the arse.

Sorry for dragging this up again but I agree and disagree with a lot of points here but there's one issue that hasn't been raised. The roll of the legitimate Irish retailer in this. They can't do anything about price, they have their guidelines and they sell accordingly. Cigarettes would be a fair proportion of their income and when people are buying from abroad it has to be having a serious affect on the retail trade?

Sorry for dragging this up but I think it's a fair point but I free to be torn apart on this one!!:)

Beanmachine

No Surprise considering cigarettes here are the most expensive in europe