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US Congress panel accuses Turkey of Armenian 'genocide'

2

Comments

  • #32
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    The US is right. It was a genocide.

    And feck Turkey. The audacity of them bitching about it. IF you don't want people calling it a genocide, them maybe you shouldn't have murdered so many people?


  • #33
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    And when the feck is Ireland going to recognise it as a genocide?


  • #34
    El Siglo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,803 ✭✭✭El Siglo


    I wouldn't be supportive of Turkey's accession into the EU simply because it would cost billions and with us, Greece etc... in financial trouble it wouldn't be good. Personally, I've found the Turkish to be a nice people, like any other nationality, there's dickheads but all in all nice people. I doubt Obama will be too supportive of Congress and he did pussy out last year of calling it a genocide. If it was a Turkish genocide committed by Armenians, there'd be no problem but money and geopolitics tend to dictate this.


  • #35
    El Siglo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,803 ✭✭✭El Siglo


    Chillaxe wrote: »
    And lemon kurds.....

    On a serious note, has turkey got oil now or something?

    It's got this. Which helps it go here, bomb this, and get this. So oil has something to do with it.


  • #36
    IrishManSaipan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭IrishManSaipan


    Nodin wrote: »
    Have you decided to give 'The Nigerians' the day off?

    The usual guff from this Nodin character. It will take a while for Turkey and Serbia to accepted back into the human race, never mind the EU. Both need to atone for their genocidal actions of the past.

    Heres an excellent article against Turkey joining the EU;

    The EU is designed to smother nationalist feelings. For Turks, however, the alternative to healthy nationalism would be Islamism, which is much more dangerous.

    Finally, Turkish accession would be very bad for Europe.

    Turkey's population within a couple of decades will be larger than Germany, currently the largest EU state. Turkish Muslims would be the single largest voting bloc within the EU. And it would be difficult to deny Turks for long the right possessed by other EU members to migrate anywhere within the EU.

    How many Turks would move to Europe if given the chance? Well, about 1/6th of all people of Mexican descent in the world live in the United States. But the more realistic comparison would be Puerto Rico, which has unlimited legal migration rights with its rich neighbor, the U.S.

    According to George Borjas, about 1/4th of Puerto Rico moved to the US mainland in a couple of decades, until the federal government started bribing Puerto Ricans to stay home with food stamps and the like. That would mean close to 20 million additional Muslims moving into Europe proper—on top of the 15 to 20 million already causing so much trouble.

    That would be a cultural, political, and security disaster—not just for Europe, but also for the U.S.

    Think about it this way: Admitting Turkey to the European Union would be very like admitting Mexico to the United States.

    Indeed, Mexican President Vicente Fox explicitly wants an EU-like relationship with the U.S. and Canada. His former foreign minister Jorge Castaneda told the L.A. Times in 2001:

    "That's what Fox essentially wants, the type of resource transfers that occurred in Spain and, before Spain, in Ireland, and, after Spain, in Portugal and Greece. The Germans were willing to build highways in Spain. Somebody else has to build our highways. We don't have the money." [Jorge Castaneda: Mexico's Man Abroad, LA Times, August 12, 2001, By Sergio Munoz]

    For comparison:


    Turkey's population is 69 million compared to Mexico's 105 million.


    Turkey's per capita GDP is $6,700 compared to Mexico's $9,000.


    Turkey's long term economic potential, while not awful, appears limited by a mediocre national average IQ. (A country's average IQ is an absolutely crucial datum in thinking about world affairs, but you won't see it cited many places other than VDARE.com).
    Turkey's IQ structure appears to be fairly similar to Mexico's. Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen in IQ and the Wealth of Nations do report one solid study of Turkey: the Raven's Standard Progressive Matrices was standardized on a representative sample of 2,277 Turkish children in 1992. The Turkish children averaged 90 on a scale in which the British average 100. Two studies of Turkish immigrants in the Netherlands reported averages of 88 and 85.

    Lynn and Vanhanen's database contains only one study for Mexico, and that from the less developed Southern Highlands, where the average was 87. They also report three studies of Mexican immigrants in America, with averages of 84, 95, and 84. The authors of The Bell Curve, Richard J. Herrnstein and Charles Murray, gave 91 as their best guess for the average IQ of Latinos.

    All is not lost in Europe. Some Europeans have got the message. As Ambrose Evans-Pritchard recently reported in the Daily Telegraph:

    "A European commissioner set off a furious row yesterday after warning that Europe's Christian civilization risked being overrun by Islam. Fritz Bolkestein, the single market commissioner and a former leader of the Dutch liberals, said the European Union would ‘implode’ in its current form if 70 million Turkish Muslims were allowed to join. "

    "He predicted that Turkish accession would overwhelm the fragile system and finish off any lingering dreams of a fully-integrated European superstate. In a speech at Leiden University, he compared the EU to the late Austrian-Hungarian empire, which took so many different peoples on board in such a haphazard fashion that it eventually became ungovernable."

    [Muslim millions threaten EU values, says commissioner September 8, 2004]

    Valery Giscard-D'Estaing, who was so weaselly about the Soviet threat when he was President of France, has surprisingly emerged as the Defender of Christendom by publicly expressing strong opposition to admitting Turkey. He says it would be "the end of Europe. "

    Not to mention the lack of human rights in Turkey and the rise in honour killings.


    According to girl's mother - the girl tried to get help from the police but each time she was sent back home. The Highest Court in Istanbul has upheld the decision of the lower instance - the murderers will get a very mild sentence. Every year in Turkey there are 300 "honour" killings.

    So-called "honour killings" in Turkey have reached record levels. According to government figures, there are more than 200 a year – half of all the murders committed in the country. Now, in a sinister twist, comes the emergence of "honour suicides". The growing phenomenon has been linked to reforms to Turkey's penal code in 2005. That introduced mandatory life sentences for honour killers, whereas in the past, killers could receive a reduced sentence claiming provocation. Soon after the law was passed, the numbers of female suicides started to rocket.

    A survey by a university in Turkey has shown almost 40% support for the practice of "honour killing".


    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/women-told-you-have-dishonoured-your-family-please-kill-yourself-1655373.html

    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Turkey-Honour-Killing-Medine-Memi-16-Buried-Alive-By-Relatives-For-Having-Male-Friends/Article/201002115542711

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4357158.stm


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  • #37
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    IrishManSaipan wrote: »
    The usual guff from this Nodin character.
    Are you attacking the guff or the character?
    IrishManSaipan wrote: »
    For Turks, however, the alternative to healthy (?) nationalism would be Islamism, which is much more dangerous..
    Like the alternative to crack is crystal meth ?
    IrishManSaipan wrote: »
    Turkish Muslims would be the single largest voting bloc within the EU
    "Turkish Muslims" would be no more of a voting bloc than Italian Catholics
    IrishManSaipan wrote: »
    How many Turks would move to Europe if given the chance?
    They wouldnt be "moving to Europe" they would be In Europe
    IrishManSaipan wrote: »
    close to 20 million additional Muslims moving into Europe proper (sic)

    Turkish citizens /=/ Muslims
    IrishManSaipan wrote: »
    on top of the 15 to 20 million already causing so much trouble.
    Just like those bloody Irish troublemakers in 1970's/80's London ?
    IrishManSaipan wrote: »
    Turkey's IQ structure appears to be..... but you won't see it cited many places other than VDARE.com
    Racist much ?
    IrishManSaipan wrote: »
    Europe's Christian (??) civilization (???) risked being overrun by Islam......... Fritz Bolkestein, the single market commissioner and a former leader of the Dutch liberals(????) , .


  • #38
    m@cc@
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,526 ✭✭✭m@cc@


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    "Turkish Muslims" would be no more of a voting bloc than Italian Catholics

    Do you have figures to back this up? As I have it, if Turkey joined, it would be the most populous country in the EU and therefore have the most MPs.


  • #39
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Voting blocs in the European parliament are based on party groupings and/or countries not religions.
    m@cc@ wrote: »
    As I have it, if Turkey joined, it would be the most populous country in the EU and therefore have the most MPs.

    Possibly (or possibly not) but:
    1) They would still have only a small percentage of the total MEP's
    2) its damn all to do with religion


  • #40
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    IrishManSaipan wrote: »

    Turkey's long term economic potential, while not awful, appears limited by a mediocre national average IQ. (A country's average IQ is an absolutely crucial datum in thinking about world affairs, but you won't see it cited many places other than VDARE.com).

    Turkey's IQ structure appears to be fairly similar to Mexico's. Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen in IQ and the Wealth of Nations do report one solid study of Turkey: the Raven's Standard Progressive Matrices was standardized on a representative sample of 2,277 Turkish children in 1992. The Turkish children averaged 90 on a scale in which the British average 100. Two studies of Turkish immigrants in the Netherlands reported averages of 88 and 85.

    Achtung!!!!!!!!

    Why didn't you link to the source of that? Shame?


  • #41
    IrishManSaipan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭IrishManSaipan


    Nodin wrote: »
    Achtung!!!!!!!!

    Why didn't you link to the source of that? Shame?

    Steve Sailer is the author.

    http://isteve.blogspot.com/


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  • #42
    Executive Steve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,373 ✭✭✭Executive Steve


    IrishManSaipan wrote: »
    If they do join the EU, mass immigration from Turkey into Ireland will make eastern europen immigration seem like a drop in the ocean. Which is why all 166 TDs support Turkeys accession.




    I am intrigued by your ideas - what do the 166 TD's stand to benefit by this?

    Are they lizards?


  • #43
    IrishManSaipan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭IrishManSaipan


    Executive Steve wrote: »
    I am intrigued by your ideas - what do the 166 TD's stand to benefit by this?

    Cowardice. Immigration has never been debated in the place where it actually matters. In Leinster House. They will tow the line and support Turkish accession.
    Executive Steve wrote: »
    Are they lizards?

    Some would call them snakes.


  • #44
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    IrishManSaipan wrote: »
    Steve Sailer is the author.

    http://isteve.blogspot.com/

    O I know who he is already....Why you didn't link was the question.....


  • #45
    IrishManSaipan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭IrishManSaipan


    Nodin wrote: »
    O I know who he is already....Why you didn't link was the question.....

    Ive linked to the mans blog. You will find the original article there.


  • #46
    pirelli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭pirelli


    IrishManSaipan wrote: »
    Turkey is not a european country, ergo it should never be accepted into the EU. Seventy million turks descending on europe, no thanks.


    Do you expect the entire population of Turkey will just up and leave to live in europe. Where do you think people flock to for sun sea and sand :Turkey, and alot more toursits than ever come to ireland. I would say almost the same amount travel to Turkey as you fear will travel to europe.

    I cannot see what your worried about ( increased job competition!! hardly. Buying irish houses from Nama? ) other than being racist on a thread about genocide.


  • #47
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    pirelli wrote: »
    Do you expect the entire population of Turkey will just up and leave to live in europe.

    Even if they did why would they decend on Ireland when -to date Turkish citzens given the opportunity to come to Europe have mainly tended to choose Germany ?


  • #48
    IrishManSaipan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭IrishManSaipan


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Even if they did why would they decend on Ireland when -to date Turkish citzens given the opportunity to come to Europe have mainly tended to choose Germany ?

    The Germans ceased visa restrictions on Turkey during the 60s and 70s. They are regreting it ever since.


  • #49
    m@cc@
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,526 ✭✭✭m@cc@


    IrishManSaipan wrote: »
    The Germans ceased visa restrictions on Turkey during the 60s and 70s. They are regreting it ever since.

    Same goes for the Dutch I should add.


  • #50
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    IrishManSaipan wrote: »
    The Germans ceased visa restrictions on Turkey during the 60s and 70s. They are regreting it ever since.

    Which even if true (nope) doesnt answer the question.


  • #51
    IrishManSaipan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭IrishManSaipan


    pirelli wrote: »
    Do you expect the entire population of Turkey will just up and leave to live in europe. Where do you think people flock to for sun sea and sand :Turkey, and alot more toursits than ever come to ireland. I would say almost the same amount travel to Turkey as you fear will travel to europe.

    Six million Turks now live in the EU. Most arrived over the past 20-25 years. If they were to become a member of the EU they would have the right to freedom of movement and no longer need work permits to commence employment in Ireland. It would make eastern european immigration into Ireland seem like a drop in the ocean.

    Can you see were I am going with this at all, at all?


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  • #52
    IrishManSaipan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭IrishManSaipan


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Which even if true (nope) doesnt answer the question.

    Germany, and as M@cca pointed out, the Netherlands relaxed restrictions on Turkish immigrants. The rest of europe didnt. Thus, they moved to Germany and the Netherlands. This isnt rocket science.


  • #53
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    IrishManSaipan wrote: »
    Six million Turks now live in the EU. Most arrived over the past 20-25 years. If they were to become a member of the EU they would have the right to freedom of movement and no longer need work permits to commence employment in Ireland. It would make eastern european immigration into Ireland seem like a drop in the ocean.

    So theyre just biding their time in Germany waiting for the day when they can suddenly decamp en masse to Ireland ?
    IrishManSaipan wrote: »
    Can you see were I am going with this at all, at all?
    Going out of your way to avoid addressing any of the points put to you -thats for sure.


  • #54
    IrishManSaipan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭IrishManSaipan


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    So theyre just biding their time in Germany waiting for the day when they can suddenly decamp en masse to Ireland ?

    We were told that barely any eastern europeans would move to Ireland after the Nice referendum. You could have said that they too prefered to migrate to Germany instead of Ireland. How did that turn out?

    I remember watching a programme on RTE called "Turkish Wives Club", where young Turks were marrying middle aged Irish women just to enter Ireland. Turkeys unemployment rate is higher than ours, they have millions of unemployed workers. The average wage is $6,700 per annum. Hundreds of thousands of young Turks would leave Turkey for Ireland.


  • #55
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    IrishManSaipan wrote: »
    You could have said that they too prefered to migrate to Germany instead of Ireland.

    Perhaps they did but initially there were less restrictions on them coming to UK/Ireland (You mentioned something about rocket science.........)

    In the last year net migration betwween Eastern (Central ?) Europe and Ireland has been in the opposite direction (many of them never intended staying permanently anyway)
    IrishManSaipan wrote: »
    I remember watching a programme on RTE called "Turkish Wives Club", where young Turks were marrying middle aged Irish women just to enter Ireland.

    And the women were aware of this ?


  • #56
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Whats all this got to do with Armenians? :D

    Will they drive all the Turks to Europe? :P


  • #57
    Pittens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    In the last year net migration betwween Eastern (Central ?) Europe and Ireland has been in the opposite direction (many of them never intended staying permanently anyway)

    I have to be honest with you Mike. That is part of the problem. The uncontrolled migration ,dependent on construction which depended on uncontrolled migration, was always a self-referential house of cards.

    Them leaving is not good necessarily. At least not for NAMA.

    Lastly, Turkey. It borders Bulgaria, Georgia Armenia, Azerbaijan Iran ; and Iraq and Syria .

    So anybody who wants to pop into Europe, or the EU from Iran, Azerbaijan, Iraq ( lol) or Syria needs to get into Turkey, were they a member of the EU.

    Were all these groups bypassing Turkey as a permanent home it might have a more porous border then we would like. I am guessing that Iraqis would give it the old college try.

    So no, Europe does not extend to Iraq, Iran, Syria, or Azerbaijan. Or close to them. And in other news, were the EU to include Turkey ( against the wishes of most of the people of Europe) the EU would last ten years at most. The nations would re-introduce national borders as quickly as possible.


  • #58
    Pittens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭Pittens


    oh yeah, back on topic.

    The Aremenian genocide was real. So too was the genocide ( effectively) of most Native American tribes. The fact that an American congress would recognise the former, not the latter does not make the fact of the former genocide any less true.


  • #59
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Pittens wrote: »
    The uncontrolled migration ,dependent on construction which depended on uncontrolled migration, was always a self-referential house of cards.
    Not all migrants worked in construction even those who did are hardly to blame. The bubble predated Nice/EU enlargment. Blame the Bankers/Developers/Fianna Fail/Speculators/Estate agents /etc
    Pittens wrote: »
    Them leaving is not good necessarily. At least not for NAMA .
    Quick lets build ourselves a wall............
    Pittens wrote: »
    it might have a more porous border then we would like .
    Or given its tendency to be mountainous, heavily militarised and widely mined it might not ?
    Pittens wrote: »
    Turkey. It borders Bulgaria, Georgia Armenia, Azerbaijan Iran ; and Iraq and Syria .
    Just like Poland borders Russia, Ukraine and Belarus
    Just like Hungary borders Croatia and Serbia
    Just like Greece borders Albania and Macedonia
    Just like the Republic of Cyprus (sort of) borders......what is that place called again.......
    Pittens wrote: »
    The Aremenian genocide was real. So too was the genocide ( effectively) of most Native American tribes. The fact that an American congress would recognise the former, not the latter does not make the fact of the former genocide any less true.
    Its a fair point although the United States is hardly the sole perpetrator given that the genocide started long before the foundation of the USA. Out of interest what is the stance (if any) of the Turkish parliament on this one ?


  • #60
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,758 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Chillaxe wrote: »
    And lemon kurds.....

    On a serious note, has turkey got oil now or something?
    They have 72% of the worlds Boron.

    It could be the next big renewable fuel.


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  • #61
    pagancornflake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 279 ✭✭pagancornflake


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    They have 72% of the worlds Boron.

    It could be the next big renewable fuel.

    We should so invite them to join Europe because of that and that piece of information alone.


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