Calling All People in Diocese of Ferns.

Theta · 03-03-2010 01:12PM

I read this in the paper this morning and I thought he was taking the piss.

gent9662 · 03-03-2010 01:13PM

prinz wrote: »

No I don't, but I think you have after starting another thread on the same subject.

Apologies, I had a brief look for something similar and did not see it

biko · 03-03-2010 01:14PM

A SECOND bishop has raised the prospect of asking parishioners to help pay compensation and legal bills arising out of clerical child abuse.

The Bishop of Ferns Denis Brennan provoked outrage among abuse victims yesterday by his appeal for parishioners to pay €60,000 a year between them for 20 years towards compensation bills.

Last night, a spokesman for Bishop of Killaloe Willie Walsh said he would consider following the controversial lead of Bishop Brennan, should it become necessary.

"Bishop Walsh would be prepared to consider such an option in the diocese in consultation with parish pastoral councils and finance committees if it became necessary," the spokesman said.

To date, the bill faced by the Diocese of Killaloe is just a fraction of that for Ferns, with the cost of compensating victims of past sexual abuse reaching €1.8m to the end of 2008.

Those costs were partly funded by €1.5m raised through the sale of six acres of land at the Bishop's Ennis residence in 2001.

Bishop Walsh -- who resigned on his 75th birthday but has yet to be replaced -- was the only bishop contacted yesterday by the Irish Independent who said he would consider asking ordinary parishioners to help foot the church's bills.

Meanwhile, abuse victims angrily lashed out at Bishop Brennan for asking parishioners to help meet compensation and legal bills.

Goldenbridge abuse victim Christine Buckley said she was "absolutely reeling" from the invitation made by Bishop Brennan for 100,000 parishioners in 80 parishes to pay €60,000 each year until 2030 to meet an outstanding debt of €1.2m. She also accused church patrons of acting "like Judas" towards victims.

Revelations

Colm O'Gorman, whose public revelations of how he was a victim of the notorious paedophile priest Fr Sean Fortune led to the Ferns Inquiry into abuse in the Wexford diocese, said he would discourage people from contributing to the bishop's appeal.

"I would encourage them to get the church to look to its own assets and wealth," said Mr O'Gorman, the founder and former director of the One in Four victims' support group.

Last night, Wexford-based Pat Jackman, who was also abused by Fr Fortune, branded the bishop's appeal to parishes as "ridiculous" and accused the church of trying to guilt-trip parishioners into contributing funds.

He told the Irish Independent that the Catholic Church authorities were refusing to take responsibility for the issue, and that the church would be "bankrupt" if all abuse victims came forward with compensation claims. "Some victims just don't want to re-visit the past," he said.

Bishop Brennan disclosed that the taxpayer contributed €650,000 towards the diocese's legal costs in the Ferns Inquiry after the State agreed to award this sum, with the diocese paying almost €1.5m in legal expenses.

Merged with prev thread

My name is URL · 03-03-2010 01:17PM

It's unbelievable to think they have the cheek to even suggest that the public foot the bill for abuse payouts. They really are blinded by the faith they hold, and the sad thing is that some people are just as blind as them and will donate towards it

gent9662 · 03-03-2010 01:22PM

Joey the lips wrote: »

Dream on... Its a rant. there will be no discussion it is simply a caneing. What is being discussed... Nothing.... What will be learned..... Nothing.... What will it achieve..... Nothing.....

Its rational for the church to ask for assistence. As the bills need to be paid. It does not make it right or wrong. Its rational. If the church cannot pay its bills it will be liquidated as such. What purpose does this serve to the locals... Nothing.

This does not mean anyone has to contribute.... However consider this. The money you give to any charity do you think there is not an exploitation of funds in some way along the line.... Your foolish if you do. The reason you give is your hopeing you will help someone.

The reason people WILL give here is they are hopeing they will save a community as such.

Where is the discussion in this.... None.

then again it is after hours..... Lets build a bonfire and burn all the christians.. :rolleyes:

Charity accounts are available to anyone who requests them. You can't say the same for the catholic church, I'm sure they won't declare how much went towards aiding and abetting criminal priests. I for one would love to see the catholic church disbanded on the grounds that it is a corrupt, cult and child abuser ridden group of rejects from normal society.

gent9662 · 03-03-2010 01:32PM

Outrage wrote: »

To all the outraged people: you should stop paying tax seeing as your money is going to compensate abuse victims for abuse at the hands of the State you love so much.

I have no trouble putting my hard-earned in an envelope to help compensate abuse victims - otherwise the monies have to come out of other funds that are used to do good works. Several large sums have been donated already.

I have no problems in putting my hand in my pocket to pay for people who through no fault of their own lost their home due to an earthquake in Haiti or Chile. I have no problems in contributing money on a monthly basis to help people in war torn ravaged countries etc.

YOU have no problems in helping a corrupt cult society that tells you to contribute to a society that has more wealth than any other religious organisation in the world? What for what means? So that you can continue to go to mass every Sunday and feel better about yourself? If I was one of those people who was abused, do you think I would like to take money from people who are not responsible for what happened to me? Yes the state contributes to the victims of abuse, but that is because they were to blame also. The state has no choice but to take it from the tax intake.

Surely the Pope could sell his nice little red shoes to help at least one victim, but instead he gets the normal Joe soap on the street to sort out the problems of the church!

I think it is disgusting!

bleg · 03-03-2010 02:33PM

Letter in today's Irish Times

Madam, – The Bishop of Ferns Dr Denis Brennan has invited the parishes of the diocese to help pay compensation for clerical child sexual abuse.

He should call it what it is: a rape tax. – Yours, etc,

ALLAN CAVANAGH,
Old Rahoon Road,
Galway.

Caco · 03-03-2010 02:39PM

http://www.irishsentinel.com/2010/03/02/church-to-move-abuse-into-21st-century/

Last line hits the nail on the head!

TheBigLebowski · 03-03-2010 02:40PM

Joey the lips wrote: »

Why dont we just sell of the vatican all together..... Sure who needs it.

Exactly. Who does need it? It's a disgusting display of wealth and power.

Nodin · 03-03-2010 02:57PM

Caco wrote: »

http://www.irishsentinel.com/2010/03/02/church-to-move-abuse-into-21st-century/

Last line hits the nail on the head!

Considering the deal with the state, in a way we're already paying.

elekid · 03-03-2010 06:20PM

Joey the lips wrote: »

If the church cannot pay its bills it will be liquidated as such. What purpose does this serve to the locals...

They'll be rid of the institution that abused the local children then covered it up?

PeterIanStaker · 03-03-2010 09:21PM

Theta wrote: »

I read this in the paper this morning and I thought he was taking the piss.

I wish he was, the mans on another planet entirely.

www.countmeout.ie

Outrage · 03-03-2010 09:56PM

How anyone could deny an abuse victim their compensation is beyond me.

Leave the anti-Church rhetoric to the atheism & agnostic forum lads and ladies.

Delirium · 03-03-2010 11:33PM

Outrage wrote: »

How anyone could deny an abuse victim their compensation is beyond me.

You mean like the way the vatican has done??

OxfordComma · 03-03-2010 11:47PM

Outrage wrote: »

How anyone could deny an abuse victim their compensation is beyond me.

Leave the anti-Church rhetoric to the atheism & agnostic forum lads and ladies.

"Anti-Church rhetoric"? Do you mean to say you support the request for the general public to pay the compensation for the vile crimes the Church committed?

04-03-2010 10:59AM

From Sinead O'Connor in a letter to Irish independent - Probably the best statement on the issue I ahve seen.

"A true Christian is someone who, in any given situation, is supposed to ask themselves what would Jesus do, then try to do that.

How an organisation which has acted, decade after decade, only to protect its business interests above the interests of children can feel it has the right to dictate to us what Christians should do is beyond belief.

From the Pope on down, through the Vatican and therefore through the lower echelons, the whole organisation, in my belief, is utterly anti-Christian and evil, as proven by centuries of torture, bloodshed, burnings, terrorism, and coverings-up of "the worst crime" known to man.

And if Jesus christ is to be seen in the vulnerable of this world, then all the church has done is crucify the man over and over and over again.

If Christ was here, he would be burning down the Vatican. And I for one would be helping him."

prinz · 04-03-2010 11:08AM

91011 wrote: »

"A true Christian is someone who, in any given situation, is supposed to ask themselves what would Jesus do, then try to do that".

I have asked myself that question repeatedly. I have found an answer. If someone asked me if I wanted to contribute to compensation for victims I'd be only to happy to contribute anything I could tbh.

WindSock · 04-03-2010 11:13AM

prinz wrote: »

I have asked myself that question repeatedly. I have found an answer. If someone asked me if I wanted to contribute to compensation for victims I'd be only to happy to contribute anything I could tbh.

It's not up to you to 'compensate' the victims. You didn't do anything to them. The church is doing what it does best. Telling it's subjects what to do because that is what Christians do. It is so hypocritical I don't even know where to begin.

prinz · 04-03-2010 11:19AM

WindSock wrote: »

It's not up to you to 'compensate' the victims. You didn't do anything to them..

Is that what Jesus said to the lepers/beggars etc? No. If there was anything I could do to help anyone who was a victim of abuse in any way I would do it, because I answered that question 'what would Jesus do'.. would he say 'well I didn't do it' and walk on by? By the way I expect nothing less of the Church or the State for that matter.

peasant · 04-03-2010 11:22AM

prinz wrote: »

Is that what Jesus said to the lepers/beggars etc? No. If there was anything I could do to help anyone who was a victim of abuse in any way I would do it, because I answered that question 'what would Jesus do'.. would he say 'well I didn't do it' and walk on by? By the way I expect nothing less of the Church or the State for that matter.

But you won't be helping / comforting the victims ...you'll be paying for the lawyers that the church engaged because they wanted to shirk their responsiblity in the first place.

You'd be rewarding bad behaviour, as it were.

m@cc@ · 04-03-2010 11:23AM

Joey the lips wrote: »

See this is the type of comment thats of a poor standard and makes this discussion poor. Why dont we just sell of the vatican all together..... Sure who needs it. :rolleyes:

Catholics and they're decomposing quicker than the haggered old ****s who live in the Vatican. I was in Rome last year and I went to Vatican because....well, when in Rome... and I've never come across such a garish and ostentatious place. I found the Colosseum a much more stunning sight and it's still standing no thanks to the plundering of the Catholic church.

They have little respect for any history or facts that aren't their own and thankfully, time is running out for them.

prinz · 04-03-2010 11:23AM

peasant wrote: »

But you won't be helping / comforting the victims ...you'll be paying for the lawyers that the church engaged because they wanted to shirk their responsiblity in the first place.
You'd be rewarding bad behaviour, as it were.

Did you actually read what was being asked for?

peasant · 04-03-2010 11:27AM

prinz wrote: »

Did you actually read what was being asked for?

Did you?

Speaking to The Irish Times , Mr Doyle, who is chairman of the Ferns Diocesan Finance Committee, said money would be needed from parishioners to cover compensation settlements and legal bills as well as ancillary costs such as the cost of treatment for offenders and counselling.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0302/breaking32.html

prinz · 04-03-2010 11:28AM

peasant wrote: »

Did you?
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0302/breaking32.html

Yes I did. Compensation settlements go to the victims do they not?

Guy:Incognito · 04-03-2010 11:29AM

prinz wrote: »

I have asked myself that question repeatedly. I have found an answer. If someone asked me if I wanted to contribute to compensation for victims I'd be only to happy to contribute anything I could tbh.

So if I abuse a few of the local kids, will you send me a cheque to paythem and their families off and to pay my legal fees with? It's the same thing

m@cc@ · 04-03-2010 11:30AM

peasant wrote: »

Did you?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0302/breaking32.html

Why would I help compensate the victims instead of the perpetrayor? I didn't take part in any of it. Let the ***** who took part and turned a blind eye to it pay for it.

WindSock · 04-03-2010 11:32AM

prinz wrote: »

Is that what Jesus said to the lepers/beggars etc? No. If there was anything I could do to help anyone who was a victim of abuse in any way I would do it, because I answered that question 'what would Jesus do'.. would he say 'well I didn't do it' and walk on by? By the way I expect nothing less of the Church or the State for that matter.

Aiding the poor is not the same as compensating victims. Compensation is about punishment, awarding for damages caused by another. No lesson is learnt, the church knows the parishoners have their back and the victims feel betrayed once again.

Outrage · 04-03-2010 11:35AM

91011 wrote: »

From Sinead O'Connor in a letter to Irish independent - Probably the best statement on the issue I ahve seen.

"A true Christian is someone who, in any given situation, is supposed to ask themselves what would Jesus do, then try to do that.

How an organisation which has acted, decade after decade, only to protect its business interests above the interests of children can feel it has the right to dictate to us what Christians should do is beyond belief.

From the Pope on down, through the Vatican and therefore through the lower echelons, the whole organisation, in my belief, is utterly anti-Christian and evil, as proven by centuries of torture, bloodshed, burnings, terrorism, and coverings-up of "the worst crime" known to man.

And if Jesus christ is to be seen in the vulnerable of this world, then all the church has done is crucify the man over and over and over again.

If Christ was here, he would be burning down the Vatican. And I for one would be helping him."

The wind is in your favour - Sinead O'Connor is on your side!

Doesn't she have a long-standing chip on her shoulder regarding all things Catholic? The nuns wouldn't have her. It smacks of her using the child abuse situation to gain publicity for her failing C-list "celebrity" career.

To all the cribbers and moaners: you should be support the Church in their valiant efforts to rid the institution of perverts and support the speedy provision of assistance to all those who were wrongfully abused.

prinz · 04-03-2010 11:37AM

WindSock wrote: »

Aiding the poor is not the same as compensating victims. Compensation is about punishment, awarding for damages caused by another..

Well hang on a lot of people are in financial difficulties because of damages caused by others.. Should I campaign to stop my taxes going to social welfare because it's not my fault if a company was badly runand people lost jobs/ a loan was too high etc?

I am not absolving the RCC of it's debts and what it has to do. Or the State. But if someone asks me to help towards compensation I would give, be it a Bishop or a chugger on O'Connell Street. This country failed and we as a people failed, and sick and vile abuse is happening up to this day.

m@cc@ · 04-03-2010 11:38AM

Outrage wrote: »

To all the cribbers and moaners: you should be support the Church in their valiant efforts to rid the institution of perverts and support the speedy provision of assistance to all those who were wrongfully abused.

What if you no longer believe in the institution? How can said institution rid itself of perverts when it's hierarchy doesn't even apologise for it? When did these valiant efforts begin?

Calling All People in Diocese of Ferns.

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