Allegations of Irish exam 'grade inflation'

Jesus Wept · 01-03-2010 12:51PM #1

Minister for Education Batt O'Keeffe has launched two investigations into allegations of 'grade inflation' in some Leaving Certificate and university results, it has been confirmed.

The investigations come after concerns were raised with Minister O'Keeffe by some US multinational companies including Google and
Intel - that there had been a decline in the educational standards of some Irish graduates and Leaving Certificate students.
Officials are to review the number of first-class honours degrees, which have been awarded by third level institutions since 1991.
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They will also look at the number of higher grades in the Leaving Certificate between 1992 and 2009.
Previous studies have shown that the percentage of first-class honours degrees awarded by Irish universities has almost trebled in the past 15 years, while the number of straight A Leaving Certificate results is up 500%.
It is understood inquiries have already been carried out by senior Department of Education officials, and preliminary results are expected later this week.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0301/education.html

There isn't a :rolleyes: big enough for this story. Maybe this one.

I think this has been obvious to anyone that has paid any attention to leaving cert results in years gone by.

The directives clearly came from the top down.
They are investigating themselves ffs, time and money well spent.
What a bunch of ****ing chancers.

TPD · 01-03-2010 12:54PM

I know a few people who were helped by the examiner during their Irish oral exam. They'd either stop the tape and tell them what to say, or write it down.

MaybeLogic · 01-03-2010 12:55PM

It's clearly as a result of more and more people turning to atheism in Ireland.

/thread

Jesus Wept · 01-03-2010 12:58PM

The Perfect Drug wrote: »

I know a few people who were helped by the examiner during their Irish oral exam. They'd either stop the tape and tell them what to say, or write it down.

teehee.

Cool Mo D · 01-03-2010 01:00PM

Higher grades doesn't mean that the tests are necessarily easier though - it could be that they are too predictable, and students and teachers are getting good at teaching to the test, and not bothering with stuff that they can ignore.

Students no are getting notes with pre-written paragraphs of informal letters for your French exam, pre-written essays on some topical subject for your Irish exam, figuring out which poetry is likely to come up in the English, and rote learning common problems in maths.

Over the last 20 years, a whole industry of predicting and short-cut learning of what will come up in the leaving cert has sprung up, and with it, grades. It is entirely possible that the exams aren't dumbed down at all, but the rigid format of the leaving cert is lending itself to gaming and second guessing the system.

Jesus Wept · 01-03-2010 01:03PM

I thought it was a case that were being marked easier.
That's what I've always heard, right or wrong.

gurramok · 01-03-2010 01:05PM

So the education system's reputation is ruined. Just like a 3rd world country!

The_Minister · 01-03-2010 01:07PM

If you look at Maths, the papers have been becoming easier and easier over the years.

Max Power1 · 01-03-2010 01:08PM

The_Minister wrote: »

If you look at Maths, the papers have been becoming easier and easier over the years.

have you got a percentage on that

Zillah · 01-03-2010 01:18PM

Well we are talking about a change over fifteen years here. A combination of greater wealth, widespread internet access and a growing culture of competition could explain a large increase.

500% does sound a little extreme though.

upandcumming · 01-03-2010 01:20PM

Whats done is this... If 100 students did a maths paper. 80 got an A,
10 got a B, 5 got a C and 5 got a D.
They will go back over the paper and mark it harder so it'd leave a smaller percentage with an A. I looked over my french paper, and i had gotten a b but it was remarked down to a c.

It could be done at the opposite end of the scale, where if say 80 people failed...

hooradiation · 01-03-2010 01:21PM

upandcumming wrote: »

Whats done is this... If 100 students did a maths paper. 80 got an A,
10 got a B, 5 got a C and 5 got a D.
They will go back over the paper and mark it harder so it'd leave a smaller percentage with an A. I looked over my french paper, and i had gotten a b but it was remarked down to a c.

It could be done at the opposite end of the scale, where if say 80 people failed...

so... it's marked on a curve then?

HOLY SHITTING JESUS! WHAT A SCOOP!

upandcumming · 01-03-2010 01:26PM

hooradiation wrote: »

so... it's marked on a curve then?

HOLY SHITTING JESUS! WHAT A SCOOP!

Its not a scoop. Not everyone is blessed with you apparent knowledge.

syklops · 01-03-2010 01:30PM

Its bad enough our banking reputation is in the jacks. Now our education reputation is gone as well.

I wonder what other frauds happened during the celtic tiger.

gurramok · 01-03-2010 01:36PM

Zillah wrote: »

Well we are talking about a change over fifteen years here. A combination of greater wealth, widespread internet access and a growing culture of competition could explain a large increase.

500% does sound a little extreme though.

Has the numbers sitting the LC gone up 500%?

Something is rotten in the state of Ireland:p

pwd · 01-03-2010 01:40PM

Was just settling down to mark some assignments. Better look up some grade curve statistics before I do.

punto gt turbo3 · 01-03-2010 01:41PM

cheating has gotten easier. the stories i have heard would make ya think.

El Siglo · 01-03-2010 01:47PM

This is going to make the people who actually did their LC and college exams honestly look bad. This is all we need now, the one thing we were supposed to be good at and now that's fucked.

twinytwo · 01-03-2010 01:48PM

this is a crock of **** for the most part.. when i did my leaving there were 5 or 6 people in my year that got 600 points 6A's 7A's etc but they worked for it. Barely went outside for a year. Everytime you saw them they had their face in a book.

syklops · 01-03-2010 01:55PM

twinytwo wrote: »

this is a crock of **** for the most part.. when i did my leaving there were 5 or 6 people in my year that got 600 points 6A's 7A's etc but they worked for it. Barely went outside for a year. Everytime you saw them they had their face in a book.

5 or 6 people? When I did my leaving there was only one person in all of Ireland who got 600 points.

Looks like the 500% figure is accurate after all.

Kurtosis · 01-03-2010 01:58PM

Max Power1 wrote: »

have you got a percentage on that

Nah, percentages are hard.

Sergeant · 01-03-2010 01:58PM

I employed a graduate last September. The chap had gotten a 2.1 from a top university. It was an engineering position. Now I don't expect miracles from a graduate, where a course is heavily focused on theory, rather than "real world" experience. I do expect enthusiasm, dedication and an eagerness to learn on the job.
This goon hadn't got a single transferable skill. Appalling grammar and punctuation skills. Simple mathematical concepts were beyond his grasp. The only thing he came armed with was an enormous sense of entitlement.
How he had gotten through a leaving cert and a degree course continues to baffle me. Learning by rote seems to be the order of the day. The only conclusion I can reach, is that the courses are being “dumbed” down to produce the required graduates for a “knowledge” economy.

El Siglo · 01-03-2010 02:01PM

Sergeant wrote: »

I employed a graduate last September. The chap had gotten a 2.1 from a top university. It was an engineering position. Now I don't expect miracles from a graduate, where a course is heavily focused on theory, rather than "real world" experience. I do expect enthusiasm, dedication and an eagerness to learn on the job.
This goon hadn't got a single transferable skill. Appalling grammar and punctuation skills. Simple mathematical concepts were beyond his grasp. The only thing he came armed with was an enormous sense of entitlement.
How he had gotten through a leaving cert and a degree course continues to baffle me. Learning by rote seems to be the order of the day. The only conclusion I can reach, is that the courses are being “dumbed” down to produce the required graduates for a “knowledge” economy.

fyp:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmJNL1BmukU

experiMental · 01-03-2010 02:04PM

Sergeant wrote: »

I employed a graduate last September. The chap had gotten a 2.1 from a top university. It was an engineering position. Now I don't expect miracles from a graduate, where a course is heavily focused on theory, rather than "real world" experience. I do expect enthusiasm, dedication and an eagerness to learn on the job.
This goon hadn't got a single transferable skill. Appalling grammar and punctuation skills. Simple mathematical concepts were beyond his grasp. The only thing he came armed with was an enormous sense of entitlement.
How he had gotten through a leaving cert and a degree course continues to baffle me. Learning by rote seems to be the order of the day. The only conclusion I can reach, is that the courses are being “dumbed” down to produce the required graduates for a “knowledge” economy.

Let's rewind a bit. An engineering degree and poor grasp of maths concepts. How did he get a 2.1 from a top university?

Sergeant · 01-03-2010 02:05PM

experiMental wrote: »

Let's rewind a bit. An engineering degree and poor grasp of maths concepts. How did he get a 2.1 from a top university?

That is what I try to get to grasp with in the last line of my original post.

Michaelrsh · 01-03-2010 02:06PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7cop4shRXY

This video just came to mind. I don't know why ...

hooradiation · 01-03-2010 02:09PM

experiMental wrote: »

Let's rewind a bit. An engineering degree and poor grasp of maths concepts. How did he get a 2.1 from a top university?

Because someone is lying here.

I'm just not sure who.

epgc3fyqirnbsx · 01-03-2010 02:09PM

Dunno about 'grade inflation', suggests that papers are being marked easier. I couldn't see anyone being asked to do this, it would have been out a long time ago

And the LC is still pretty tough as there is all that competition for college places.

But the papers themselves may be easier to avoid failures, I'm in no position to tell though

What I can say though is that college is a piece of pi$$ which probably shouldn't be the case. I've got two degrees, bot of them involved a years partying and two weeks mad study before the exams. Which was pretty much everyones tactic bar the library gnomes.

Degree churning factories, we kinda thought we were challenged at the time but that was before 'the real world'. All college courses should involve practical work experience imo.

Edit : 500th post!! What do I get?

ArseBurger · 01-03-2010 02:09PM

syklops wrote: »

Its bad enough our banking reputation is in the jacks. Now our education reputation is gone as well.

I wonder what other frauds happened during the celtic tiger.

The Irish education system hasn't had a decent international reputation since they changed the grades in the leaving certificate to A1, A2 and diluted their value in the early nineties.

And approximately three years after this CAO points for courses went into the toilet.

cherryghost · 01-03-2010 02:13PM

Ethan Tinkling Width wrote: »

Edit : 500th post!! What do I get?

You've been given the go-ahead to lead the reformation of the Education system

El Siglo · 01-03-2010 02:17PM

It's a mixture between lower CAO points, higher numbers going to college and satisfying the bell curve. Lower points, people that shouldn't do certain courses get into them, increase in college numbers, thus, higher numbers of lower quality students on these college courses means that examinations need to be adjusted to average out the grades. I think what people are missing is that even though there has been an increase in grades etc... this should probably take into account the higher numbers going to college and not in isolation. However, I do believe that the LC is highly inflated and no matter what you do in college, assessments, assignments, exams etc... will always weed out the weak, people might get through college but that doesn't mean that they'll get a great degree out of it.

Allegations of Irish exam 'grade inflation'

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