Micheál Martin first EU Foreign Minister to Visit Gaza in 1 year

Zebra3 · 26-02-2010 07:54PM

Alana Full Wardroom wrote: »

His wife is from South Lebanon, a village in the former security zone 'Shaqra'.

Its no wonder he's anti everything Israeli, just doing what any good hubby will do for a quiet life.

The bloke is an Israeli jew.

A huge part of his book was reseached by going through Israeli "Defence" Force files.

meditraitor · 26-02-2010 07:55PM

Alana Full Wardroom wrote: »

Well not really, since most of their war's were initiated against them by their enemies, and their army is a defence force (IDF - Israeli Defence Force). Its only there to defend the state against internal and external threats and not to enforce foreign policies.

Alana Full Wardroom wrote:

And nothing to do with Palestinians just being terrorists?.

DVpower wrote:

You seem to be suggesting that Palestinians are inherently terrorist?

Alana Full Wardroom...I take it you are not avoiding the question and will in your good time give an answer?

dvpower · 26-02-2010 07:57PM

And what of the Palestinians; are they inherently terrorist?

Alana Full Wardroom wrote: »

Well not really, since most of their war's were initiated against them by their enemies, and their army is a defence force (IDF - Israeli Defence Force). Its only there to defend the state against internal and external threats and not to enforce foreign policies.

They do seem to have been invloved in near never ending wars since their inception.
I'm sure that's got nothing to do with their own policies; they were just unfortunate in choosing a place inhabited by people who don't share the Israeli's peace loving ways.:rolleyes:

arybvtcw0eolkf · 26-02-2010 08:02PM

dvpower wrote: »

You seem to be suggesting that Palestinians are inherently terrorist?

dvpower wrote: »

And what of the Palestinians; are they inherently terrorist?

dvpower wrote: »

they were just unfortunate in choosing a place inhabited by people who don't share the Israeli's peace loving ways.

Seem's like you've answered your own question.

Sorry, wasn't trying to avoid it. I'm just really late in getting my ass out the door.

Disclaimer: Anything I post later may or may not be influenced by stout

meditraitor · 26-02-2010 08:05PM

Alana Full Wardroom wrote: »

Seem's like you've answered your own question.

Sorry, wasn't trying to avoid it. I'm just really late in getting my ass out the door.

But you havent answered the question yet?

Are you saying all palestinians are terrorists?

meditraitor · 26-02-2010 08:06PM

Alana Full Wardroom wrote: »

Disclaimer: Anything I post later may or may not be influenced by stout

Nice one, me too

Have a good weekend.........

me-skywalker · 26-02-2010 08:06PM

Alana Full Wardroom wrote: »

Well not really, since most of their war's were initiated against them by their enemies, and their army is a defence force (IDF - Israeli Defence Force). Its only there to defend the state against internal and external threats and not to enforce foreign policies.

Do you honestly believe that?

dvpower wrote: »

I'm sure that's got nothing to do with their own policies; they were just unfortunate in choosing a place inhabited by people who don't share the Israeli's peace loving ways.:rolleyes:

they were unfortunante in choosing a place.... haha if you knew anything you would know that this was 'their' place to begin with.

The Saint · 26-02-2010 08:30PM

Alana Full Wardroom wrote: »

Disclaimer: Anything I post later may or may not be influenced by stout

Me too. Except it won't be stout. Can't get stout here. Not anywhere close or good anyway.

rich1874 · 26-02-2010 08:38PM

Alana Full Wardroom wrote: »

Well not really, since most of their war's were initiated against them by their enemies, and their army is a defence force (IDF - Israeli Defence Force). Its only there to defend the state against internal and external threats and not to enforce foreign policies.

The term 'defence' would suggest that Israel is defending itself from agressive external forces. When actually they are 'defending' themselves from people who's land they are occupying. That is not defense, it is more of a counter insurgency similiar to the counter insurgency carried out by US troops in Iraq. To give a more meaningful example, nobody ever supported the 'defense' that Nazi Germany carried out against Partisan uprisings. Why? Because they had no right to be there in the first place.

Now you could argue forever about who had the land first, the Palestinians or the Israelis, Jews or the Muslims etc, but it is in fact irrelevant. The day Israel forcibly took land and expelled non Jewish inhabitants, it committed an illegal act under ANY AND ALL FORMS of international law. Nobody should ever deny the Israeli people a right to live in the region, but to take something by force and forgo democratic means is criminal. So i whole heatedly disagree with the notion that Isreal is simply 'defending itself' against external agressors.

Nodin · 26-02-2010 08:45PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Nope, just stop firing missiles and sending suicide bombers into Israel.

Hasn't been a suicide bomber in years, yet the settlements keep going up.

Nodin · 26-02-2010 08:48PM

Alana Full Wardroom wrote: »

And nothing (.....) Galilee.

The Palestinians were expelled en masse from the area in 1948.

Lebanon is a hive of sectarian tribalism, as you well know.

How did Jordanians find themselves a minority in their own country overnight, exactly?

Who is building colonies outside their own borders at the moment?

InTheTrees · 26-02-2010 08:49PM

rich1874 wrote: »

The term 'defence' would suggest that Israel is defending itself from agressive external forces. When actually they are 'defending' themselves from people who's land they are occupying. That is not defense, it is more of a counter insurgency similiar to the counter insurgency carried out by US troops in Iraq. To give a more meaningful example, nobody ever supported the 'defense' that Nazi Germany carried out against Partisan uprisings. Why? Because they had no right to be there in the first place.

Now you could argue forever about who had the land first, the Palestinians or the Israelis, Jews or the Muslims etc, but it is in fact irrelevant. The day Israel forcibly took land and expelled non Jewish inhabitants, it committed an illegal act under ANY AND ALL FORMS of international law. Nobody should ever deny the Israeli people a right to live in the region, but to take something by force and forgo democratic means is criminal. So i whole heatedly disagree with the notion that Isreal is simply 'defending itself' against external agressors.

You say nobody should be denied the right to live in the area?

So what would you suggest if a group was denied that right?

Nodin · 26-02-2010 08:50PM

Alana Full Wardroom wrote: »

Well not really, since most of their war's were initiated against them by their enemies, and their army is a defence force (IDF - Israeli Defence Force). Its only there to defend the state against internal and external threats and not to enforce foreign policies.

Yet there they are in the West Bank - a foreign territory - like some modern version of the North Cork Militia, beating down the 'croppies'.....

rich1874 · 26-02-2010 08:56PM

InTheTrees wrote: »

You say nobody should be denied the right to live in the area?

So what would you suggest if a group was denied that right?

Well i didn't say 'nobody should be denied the right', i said people of Israeli/Jewish inheritance shouldn't be denied the right to live there. They've inherited that right through thousands of years, but so have the Palestinians.

So which group is currently being denied the right? Certainly not the Israelis since they forcibly excercised that right through criminal means, not through democratic or peaceful means.

So in answer to your question, I would say the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank are being denied the right to live in their homeland. at the moment they barely have access to clean water never mind any sort of peaceful living.

FlutterinBantam · 26-02-2010 09:27PM

Stop lobbing missiles across the garden wall and the matter is solved;)

dvpower · 26-02-2010 09:48PM

me-skywalker wrote: »

they were unfortunante in choosing a place.... haha if you knew anything you would know that this was 'their' place to begin with.

Yeah. God gave it to them:rolleyes:

Nodin · 26-02-2010 10:51PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Stop lobbing missiles across the garden wall and the matter is solved;)

Another of your trademark 'ignore other posts' flamebait. Very amusing.

Tell me this, O poster of toilet threads, how will Hamas stopping anything prevent Israel from continuing its occupation and building in the West Bank?

Son Of A Vidic · 27-02-2010 10:22AM

El Weirdo wrote: »

Ok. Who had post #2?

???????????????????????

arybvtcw0eolkf · 27-02-2010 10:37AM

Oh me head

Where were we now..

Yes, The Saint is back (so I've deleted him from Facebook

).

Wes is letting Nodin post for a change.

Flutter makes some excellent points as usual.

Has there been calls for boycotts yet?..

Random posters making posts making no sense..

Oh yes (damned Vodka fog in my head).. Minister Martin & his mission to Gaza.

Its been what, two weeks of speculation and still nothing proved or disproved in regards to the killing of a terrorist, or are we still upset that someone used our passports?.

Last nights news says the Dubai authorities have reported that up to 26 people were involved in that terrorists untimely death, and all using fake passports (apparently).

I'd think the Dubai security services should just shut up and stop causing themselves more embarressment, incompetent shower of dopes.

meditraitor · 27-02-2010 11:40AM

Alana Full Wardroom wrote: »

And nothing to do with Palestinians just being terrorists?.

.

I take it you just plain forgot, so I will put it to you again, for the umptienth time on this thread...

Are you saying here all palestinians are terrorists?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 27-02-2010 11:52AM

meditraitor wrote: »

I take it you just plain forgot, so I will put it to you again, for the umptienth time on this thread...

Are you saying here all palestinians are terrorists?

Now wouldn't it be silly of me to suggest that ALL Palestinians are terrorists.

Most are simple, honest people (I hope) - brought to war by their leaders. Its a simple thing to do, to bring the people to war.

But I have to say, mostly my dealings with Palestinians have been largely negative.

Nodin · 27-02-2010 11:54AM

Alana Full Wardroom wrote: »

Now wouldn't it be silly of me to suggest that ALL Palestinians are terrorists.

Most are simple, honest people - brought to war by their leaders. Its a simple thing to do, to bring the people to war.

Well, its not that hard to do when they're occupied by another state now, is it? Of course Abbas has managed to do the most difficult thing - reign in his people - on the West Bank, for which he is rewarded by yet more settlements and a few million a year from the US.

wes · 27-02-2010 09:47PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Stop lobbing missiles across the garden wall and the matter is solved;)

Still not answered my simple question. Very strange how you keep ignoring them.

Don't worry, I don't expect an answer or anything, I know the pro-Israel crowd can't possibly address facts, when presented to them or anything.

**EDIT**
Your silence btw, does more damage to your arguement than anything I ever say.

wes · 27-02-2010 09:50PM

Alana Full Wardroom wrote: »

Wes is letting Nodin post for a change.

Well, its always nice to see someone else show how completely wrong the pro-Israel crowd is, and how they like to avoid answering questions

.

nacho libre · 28-02-2010 10:46PM

Alana Full Wardroom wrote: »

Its been what, two weeks of speculation and still nothing proved or disproved in regards to the killing of a terrorist, or are we still upset that someone used our passports?.
.

of course there has been nothing conclusively proven. as you well know the mossad don't go around with signs on their head saying we did it!
which is good for pro-Israeli posters who can then continue the charade mossad might not actually be responsible.

bar mossad being caught red-handed they'll never admit mossad responsibility for anything.

where does the double standards end? because if syria had sent a hitsquad to kill an Israeli general holidaying in Kenya, i suspect the burden of proof would be considerably less and there would be a major problem that they used Irish passport numbers among those who are excusing Israel for doing so.

dsmythy · 28-02-2010 11:54PM

Nodin wrote: »

Hasn't been a suicide bomber in years, yet the settlements keep going up.

The blockade seems to work in that respect anyway.

Son Of A Vidic · 01-03-2010 12:22AM

I wonder did he travel with an Israeli passport?

hooradiation · 01-03-2010 12:23AM

Alana Full Wardroom wrote: »

Flutter makes some excellent points as usual.

And this is how we all know you're still drunk.

Son Of A Vidic · 01-03-2010 12:36AM

Alana Full Wardroom wrote: »

Well not really, since most of their war's were initiated against them by their enemies, and their army is a defence force (IDF - Israeli Defence Force). Its only there to defend the state against internal and external threats and not to enforce foreign policies.

Defence force my ar$e, their recent 'war' in gaza left 1600 Palestinians dead, with the loss of 16 Israeli lives. Now that's a set of stats the SS would be proud of. Let us not forgot that it was Zionist terrorist groups that led to Israels creation. The creation of which led to the ethnic cleansing of over 300 Palestinian towns and villages. This 'cleansing' process resulted in quite a few notorious massacres, but hey they're only Arabs I suppose. For a people to survive a Holocaust and then impose a holocaust on another nation, brings evil to a new level really.

Nodin · 01-03-2010 12:46AM

dsmythy wrote: »

The blockade seems to work in that respect anyway.

All groups decided to cease suicide bombing inside Israel a number of years ago.....Gaza is only one part of the occupied territories, Hamas just one group.

Micheál Martin first EU Foreign Minister to Visit Gaza in 1 year

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