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Report: 50% maths teachers not qualified

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  • 17-02-2010 7:41pm
    #1
    grrrrrrrrrr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 635 ✭✭✭


    Just watching the Six One news there and it was carrying a report saying that up to 50% of all secondary school maths teachers are not properly qualified!:eek:

    The study was conducted by the parents society of Ireland. Some stats:

    Irish students are underpreforming with only 16% doing HL LC

    65% of teachers under 35 are NOT qualified!



    What do you think about this? Do you agree with this statistic from your own experience??

    The Dept of Education said that 65% were qualified but that this is still not acceptable



    IF YOU MISSED THE REPORT YOU CAN WACTH IT ON THE REAL PLAYER ON RTE.IE

    Are you happy with your maths teacher? 124 votes

    Yes, mine is brilliant
    0% 0 votes
    Ah, well mine is grand
    56% 70 votes
    I'm not a happy camper
    25% 32 votes
    Mine are terrible, they have to be part of not qualified team!!
    17% 22 votes
    Tagged:


«13

Comments

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    #2
    Les_Rebels123
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭Les_Rebels123


    The Higher Maths teacher= Qualified; most definately...
    however,
    The two Ordinary level tachers.... well... I'm gonna say NO for one of them... as for the other... well... from being in Honours, and dropping down, I Know more than the teacher does... so I'm guessing that they are not qualified either :O !!!

    Its an absolute outrage!!!! because, if you fail maths at LC... you FAIL the whole leaving cert!!! This really does need to be sorted out...sooner rather than later!!! Mary Coughlan already made a huge cock-up earlier on this week!!!! :O !
    Disgrace!


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    #3
    grrrrrrrrrr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 635 ✭✭✭grrrrrrrrrr


    Les_Rebels123 wrote: »
    The Higher Maths teacher= Qualified; most definately...
    however,
    The two Ordinary level tachers.... well... I'm gonna say NO for one of them... as for the other... well... from being in Honours, and dropping down, I Know more than the teacher does... so I'm guessing that they are not qualified either :O !!!

    Its an absolute outrage!!!! because, if you fail maths at LC... you FAIL the whole leaving cert!!! This really does need to be sorted out...sooner rather than later!!! Mary Coughlan already made a huge cock-up earlier on this week!!!! :O !
    Disgrace!


    FYI Batt o keefe is the education minister!!


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    #4
    Les_Rebels123
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭Les_Rebels123


    yeah... but Mary Coughlan is the Tánaiste :P loss of 500 jobs.. the government(FIANNA F*CKING FAIL) are Failing..more like Fianna Failure!!
    Willie O'Dea Lying... How much more are we left in the dark about????

    Had the Parents association not carried out the report... then this wouldn't have come to light at all... Now that it has.. I seriously hope the major is taken by schools, the government more so Batt O'Keefe, opposing gov. parties, parents, and student bodies alike, to get this mess sorted!!!

    I'm glad that you started this thread :P I had watched it on 6.1 also, and couldn't help but think how long it would be before someone threaded it :)


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    #5
    gemxpink
    Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭gemxpink


    Well of the 7 maths teachers Ive had since 1st year, 2 were amazing, 2 were crap, 2 were average and 1 was a science teacher.

    No doubt that half of them had no idea what they were doing most of the time.


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    #6
    grrrrrrrrrr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 635 ✭✭✭grrrrrrrrrr


    Les_Rebels123 wrote: »
    yeah... but Mary Coughlan is the Tánaiste :P loss of 500 jobs.. the government(FIANNA F*CKING FAIL) are Failing..more like Fianna Failure!!
    Willie O'Dea Lying... How much more are we left in the dark about????

    Had the Parents association not carried out the report... then this wouldn't have come to light at all... Now that it has.. I seriously hope the major is taken by schools, the government more so Batt O'Keefe, opposing gov. parties, parents, and student bodies alike, to get this mess sorted!!!

    I'm glad that you started this thread :P I had watched it on 6.1 also, and couldn't help but think how long it would be before someone threaded it :)


    You can thank me so ha.

    they said they had to carry out a report cause they couldnt figure out why only 16% of students did honours


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    #7
    c-note
    Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭c-note


    yeah i spent 6 years in secondary school,
    i had 3 different maths teachers,
    1 was good, 2 were bad, so thats 1(good)/2(bad) = 50%
    luckily i paid attention to the good one!;)


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    #8
    implausible
    Registered Users Posts: 3,937 ✭✭✭implausible


    'Unqualified' does not mean that these teachers haven't looked at a Maths book since they were in school! 'Unqualified' means that Maths doesn't constitute a significant proportion of his/her degree e.g. a Science graduate may have done Maths and Applied Maths in first year and some Maths modules later in the degree, but isn't deemed qualified by the Teaching Council.

    However, when there are unemployed fully qualified Maths teachers out there, this situation should be fixed.


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    #9
    grrrrrrrrrr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 635 ✭✭✭grrrrrrrrrr


    heres the link for the report http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1066746

    its the second half of d bulletin


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    #10
    jumpguy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,962 ✭✭✭jumpguy


    I've had 2 maths teachers, with a change in LC for honours maths. My JC HL maths teacher was okay - grand but not great, my LC HL maths teacher is excellent.


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    #11
    Herbal Deity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭Herbal Deity


    Les_Rebels123 wrote: »
    Its an absolute outrage!!!! because, if you fail maths at LC... you FAIL the whole leaving cert!!!
    No you don't, wtf?


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    #12
    grrrrrrrrrr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 635 ✭✭✭grrrrrrrrrr


    Herbal Deity wrote: »
    No you don't, wtf?


    You do! if you dont pass you cant get into 99% of courses


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    #13
    Les_Rebels123
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭Les_Rebels123


    Herbal Deity wrote: »
    No you don't, wtf?

    yeahhhsss you do :P thanks grrrrrrrrrr for backing me up... thought i was goin crazy for a second.. doubted myself.. but yeah
    Its as good as failing the whole leaving cert!!!


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    #14
    poppygirlx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31 ✭poppygirlx


    I agreee!!


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    #15
    Mayoegian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 777 ✭✭✭Mayoegian


    grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »
    You do! if you dont pass you cant get into 99% of courses

    You don't fail the LC though:)


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    #16
    Herbal Deity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭Herbal Deity


    grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »
    You do! if you dont pass you cant get into 99% of courses
    99%? I think not.

    Non-maths related courses have no maths requirement.


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    #17
    pathway33
    Registered Users Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭pathway33


    grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »
    You do! if you dont pass you cant get into 99% of courses

    There's loads of courses you do NOT need to pass maths to get into. Here's just a small sample:

    UCD:
    french
    geography
    german
    history
    irish
    english

    NUI Maynooth:
    english
    history
    european studies

    MATER DEI:
    secondary teaching

    NUI Galway:
    arts

    UCC:
    arts


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    #18
    Evan93
    Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭Evan93


    Yeah, you don't fail the leaving cert if you fail maths and there is plenty of courses out there which do not require maths.

    Anyway, for the JC I had a good teacher who tried his best but I heard he struggles with teaching LC higher maths.

    For the LC, well, I have a teacher who is excellent at maths. However, he is quite arrogant and does not share his knowledge if you will. He is well capable to teach the course but he's just too arrogant. So the problem at hand is the personality of said teacher instead of his mathematical ability.


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    #19
    gemxpink
    Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭gemxpink


    cnote2 wrote: »
    yeah i spent 6 years in secondary school,
    i had 3 different maths teachers,
    1 was good, 2 were bad, so thats 1(good)/2(bad) = 50%
    luckily i paid attention to the good one!;)

    You paid attention? Haha. I will save you the embarrassment of pointing out your error!


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    #20
    OxfordComma
    Closed Accounts Posts: 407 ✭✭OxfordComma


    To be fair, those statistics were presented in a pretty sensationalist manner, and weren't explained properly at all. The definition they were using in the survey for a "qualified Maths teacher" (I'm 99% certain of this after listening to Matt Cooper discuss the issue) was someone who had a degree in pure Mathematics (probably a B.Sc. or a B.A.). I actually thought the amount of teachers with a full degree in Mathematics would be a lot lower than this.

    Not having a degree in pure Maths does NOT mean you're incapable of teaching 2nd-level Maths - in fact, someone with such a degree is probably completely over-qualified for teaching LC Higher Level Maths (not that that's necessarily a bad thing). A teacher with a degree in Physics, Chemistry or any of the Engineering disciplines would have studied Maths to such a high level during their course that they would have more than enough mathematical knowledge to teach JC and LC Maths - yet, under this survey, all of these people would be regarded as "unqualified", which is pretty unfair in my opinion.

    And anyways, the standard of maths teaching in Ireland is (in my experience) pretty much the same as that of other subjects. (Some of my favourite teachers in school taught Maths, actually). The real issue is probably just that people resent having to study the subject in the first place, and find it very difficult and "pointless", so there's probably a lot of scapegoating going on here.


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    #21
    grrrrrrrrrr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 635 ✭✭✭grrrrrrrrrr


    gemxpink wrote: »
    You paid attention? Haha. I will save you the embarrassment of pointing out your error!

    it was a joke!!


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    #22
    grrrrrrrrrr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 635 ✭✭✭grrrrrrrrrr


    1fahy4 wrote: »
    To be fair, those statistics were presented in a pretty sensationalist manner, and weren't explained properly at all. The definition they were using in the survey for a "qualified Maths teacher" (I'm 99% certain of this after listening to Matt Cooper discuss the issue) was someone who had a degree in pure Mathematics (probably a B.Sc. or a B.A.). I actually thought the amount of teachers with a full degree in Mathematics would be a lot lower than this.

    Not having a degree in pure Maths does NOT mean you're incapable of teaching 2nd-level Maths - in fact, someone with such a degree is probably completely over-qualified for teaching LC Higher Level Maths (not that that's necessarily a bad thing). A teacher with a degree in Physics, Chemistry or any of the Engineering disciplines would have studied Maths to such a high level during their course that they would have more than enough mathematical knowledge to teach JC and LC Maths - yet, under this survey, all of these people would be regarded as "unqualified", which is pretty unfair in my opinion.

    And anyways, the standard of maths teaching in Ireland is (in my experience) pretty much the same as that of other subjects. (Some of my favourite teachers in school taught Maths, actually). The real issue is probably just that people resent having to study the subject in the first place, and find it very difficult and "pointless", so there's probably a lot of scapegoating going on here.


    Well the dept said 65% are qualified but that this isnt acceptable at that!!

    Theres obviously some problem with the lack of qualification or else the dept themselves wouldnt admit it


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    #23
    pathway33
    Registered Users Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭pathway33


    1fahy4 wrote: »
    The definition they were using in the survey for a "qualified Maths teacher" (I'm 99% certain of this after listening to Matt Cooper discuss the issue) was someone who had a degree in pure Mathematics (probably a B.Sc. or a B.A.).

    A teacher with a degree in Physics, Chemistry or any of the Engineering disciplines would have studied Maths to such a high level during their course that they would have more than enough mathematical knowledge to teach JC and LC Maths - yet, under this survey, all of these people would be regarded as "unqualified", which is pretty unfair in my opinion.

    A qualified maths teacher doesn't necessarily have to have a degree in pure maths according to the teaching councils list of recognised qualifications on their website. They also list degrees in computer science, biotechnology and other subjects as qualifying the graduates in those disciplines to teach maths.

    I don't know what criteria they used in the survey but according to the teaching council (and presumably the department of education agree with the TC) you need to have maths in at least 30% of your degree and have maths as a major subject - 'major' presumably meaning that it has to be part of the final year of your degree. You also have to have covered the areas of the leaving cert syllabus in college.

    So yeah 'unqualified' could be a science graduate who had done maths for 20 - 25% of their degree and maybe not in final year. Or maybe an economics graduate who would have done some high level maths up to final year but didn't cover the range of maths needed. Still though those 'unqualified' people would be capable of teaching maths and if they are natural teachers may be better teachers than a maths graduate with little ability to actually teach.

    There just needs to be some joined up thinking.


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    #24
    Redjeep!
    Registered Users Posts: 493 ✭✭Redjeep!


    50% !!

    Wow, so three quarters of my fellow maths teachers are unqualified ?


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    #25
    highlydebased
    Registered Users Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭highlydebased


    Let me see

    Had 2 different teachers in first year
    one brilliant teacher for second year, then she fell pregnant
    Substitute teacher was rubbish, thought I'd fail JC maths. Actual teacher came back a week before JC and I got a C
    TY, cant remember
    Last year, 5th year, excellent teacher for pass LC maths, did quite well with her. Then she was let go with the cutbacks
    This year, ****e teacher who cant teach at all and has an attitude problem, saying its all our fault that we do terrible in maths and that we're "not working" even though he cant teach us in the first place. Gonna have to get grinds or I'll fail my leaving cert...


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    #26
    dee o gee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 365 ✭✭dee o gee


    Well considering the two pe teachers in my school also double up as maths teachers I would well believe this, one of them I know is doing a business course, but I don't know what kind of qualifications the other has, I think one of the french teachers also tried her hand at teaching maths too. :confused:

    For first year had a good teacher, in second and third year had a really good teacher who got me an A in honours JC, im in LC now and my teacher is pretty good, she will explain things until you get it and puts in time after school to teach us. I feel sorry for some of the pass classes though as some of the teachers aren't really too good. :(


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    #27
    grrrrrrrrrr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 635 ✭✭✭grrrrrrrrrr


    dee o gee wrote: »
    Well considering the two pe teachers in my school also double up as maths teachers I would well believe this, one of them I know is doing a business course, but I don't know what kind of qualifications the other has, I think one of the french teachers also tried her hand at teaching maths too. :confused:


    does it make a dif what other subjects they teach??

    my best english teacher ever was a pe teacher too


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    #28
    DancingQueen:)
    Registered Users Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭DancingQueen:)


    I guess i'm pretty lucky with the maths teachers i've had. I've had one from 1st to third year, one for fourth year and now one for fifth and sixth and they've all been amazing. They've all been higher teachers but the ordinary level teachers are supposed to be great aswel (all bar one).


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    #29
    gonnaplayrugby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 453 ✭✭gonnaplayrugby


    if i fail ordinary maths can i still get arts(ucd)


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    #30
    pathway33
    Registered Users Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭pathway33


    gonnaplayrugby wrote: »
    if i fail ordinary maths can i still get arts(ucd)

    yep. and a load of other courses too


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    #31
    gonnaplayrugby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 453 ✭✭gonnaplayrugby


    WOOOOTTTTTT


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