Report: 50% maths teachers not qualified

pathway33

the list of ucd courses you don't need maths for are in this

https://myucd.ucd.ie/admission/entry_ug.ezc

Lawliet

Mine are terrible, they have to be part of not qualified team!!

Just because a teacher is terrible, doesn't automatically make them unqualified. And by the same note plenty of teachers can be excellent at teaching a subject they're not strictly qualified for.

randylonghorn

dee o gee wrote: »

Well considering the two pe teachers in my school also double up as maths teachers I would well believe this

Most Irish PE teachers are trained in UL. They do a 4-year degree with 3 strands:

1. Physical Education

2. Education, and

3. another subject chosen from 5 electives, one of which is Maths.

They meet Teacher Council standards to teach this elective to Leaving Cert level.

Those so qualified are not "doubling up" as Maths teachers, they ARE maths teachers.

Lot of ranting going on in this thread without people bothering to check their facts.

grrrrrrrrrr

Lawliet wrote: »

Just because a teacher is terrible, doesn't automatically make them unqualified. And by the same note plenty of teachers can be excellent at teaching a subject they're not strictly qualified for.

i know this hence why i did not put down a definite statement! They have to be rather than they are... its was just to get yeer own opinions on the matter and see what ye think since ye are on the front line!

Cathal93

The reason teachers are able to teach maths, and not be a technically qualified maths teacher is based on their degree. Degrees such as science and businees require you to do completely harder maths in college than in the lc, thus they can obviously teach the subject!

People constantly give out about their teachers, fact of the matter its people who are constantly complaining on boards, instead of doint homework that seem to be the "suffering population"

Get over it lads!

grrrrrrrrrr

Cathal93 wrote: »

The reason teachers are able to teach maths, and not be a technically qualified maths teacher is based on their degree. Degrees such as science and businees require you to do completely harder maths in college than in the lc, thus they can obviously teach the subject!

People constantly give out about their teachers, fact of the matter its people who are constantly complaining on boards, instead of doint homework that seem to be the "suffering population"

Get over it lads!

So you wont be ringing in Gerry Ryan over this one??:D

almostover

cnote2 wrote: »

yeah i spent 6 years in secondary school,
i had 3 different maths teachers,
1 was good, 2 were bad, so thats 1(good)/2(bad) = 50%
luckily i paid attention to the good one!;)

1 was good, 2 were bad, so that 1(good)/3(total)=33%
by the looks of it 3 were bad

grrrrrrrrrr

Is it the teachers or the students that are the problem i wonder??

Read the Q on screen!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD9PMfvan7M

sean-og3

great news for future maths teachers though!!:D

spurious

sean-og3 wrote: »

great news for future maths teachers though!!:D

Not really.
The same thing will happen as happened in other areas the mythical jobs existed. There will be an over supply in maths much like every other subject. The DES will say 'how could we have known?' and the Education Depts in colleges will continue to take in unsustainable numbers.

Enlarging class groups does not create jobs.

window_licker

having had four maths teachers in 6 years i can honestly say that its 50/50 in my experience. my first year maths teacher and current maths teacher are excellent, no complaints. My second and third year maths teahcers? Welllllll...i think no comment would be nicer :rolleyes:

marooose

I know of a few maths teachers in my own school who are not qualified in maths, but they are only teaching junior cert or ordinary level, and they all did honours for their leaving cert. They are all clever enough people to be teachers in the first place, well, to a point, and i think that if they passed honours leaving cert, they are capable of teaching anything less than that. No, I dont think it is right, but the schools must deal with the resources they have, and with teacher cut backs at the moment, they dont have much choice. Blaming this fact, however, for the lack of uptake of Higher Level maths at leaving cert is ridiculous though. At junior cert, students are being taught the course in front of them, whether there teacher is qualified to teach it or not, and if they havent got a flair or a passion for maths at that stage, then there is no hope of them going on to higher level leaving cert.....qualified teacher or not.
I just wish more people had an interest in higher level! Maths for the win :P

Orlaladuck

I've had every math teacher in my school I think O.O. Bar one.
First year - very scary man but could teach Okay-ish.
2nd & 3rd year - Was okay but still needed grinds to pass, also we got that 2007 paper ( anyone looked at/ did that one? It was Impossible and one of the hardest papers they ever gave )
TY - We had two teachers for seperate chapters. One was pretty good the other phrased everything really strangely to me so I got confused.
5th year - Now here's the problem. I had this complete IDIOT all of last year and up til christmas. He knows maths himself but can't teach it. Spent half the year putting kids down, taking the piss out of students - going around the class for instance and asking us do we think we're worth the money our parents pay for our school because we're failing at one suject? Not once has he ever ever considered it might just be HIM that's the problem. In a class test once, half the class failed and he said ' I thought it might be me until one person did the wrong question so it's obviously not me."
I've been getting grinds since xmas in 5th year but I really, really struggle with OL maths. This xmas for our tests he gave us 5 questions from the 2002 paper. I'd decided last year exactly which questions I'm going to do on my leaving so that cut 2 questions off for me from the start .I came out knowing I failed and brought the paper to my grinds teacher and she told me that half the things were phrased differently in more recent papers, things that wouldn't appear on a recent paper. (I'm open to correction here)
Got the test back, I'd failed at a lovely 29% along with half the class as usual and was told I'm being transferred to another class. I pointed out the above flaws and was just told 'you can't psycoanalyse everything', not answering my questions at all. I was moved and my teacher is Lovely, explains everything Fantastically and fully. We had parent-teacher meetings at the end of January and my parents went to see my old teacher who said I never co-operated in class, just did my own thing etc - complete bull essentially. I then found out from other people in the class anyone who hadn't come down from higher level was told they needed grinds. That's 3/4 of the class, four months before the exam and most grinds around here are well booked out at this point. The teacher still blames the students rather than himself. Going into the mocks, they didn't even have the option for section B in paper 2. Does that say underqualified to anyone else?

RHunce

cnote2 wrote: »

yeah i spent 6 years in secondary school,
i had 3 different maths teachers,
1 was good, 2 were bad, so thats 1(good)/2(bad) = 50%
luckily i paid attention to the good one!;)

i really cannot tell whether you are joking or not :pac:

thats a third my friend.. but we'll leave you off

in 5th year now, had who i thought at the time was a great teacher in first year, then another teacher came along and totally eclipsed him, he is great!!

clartharlear

Lawliet wrote:

Just because a teacher is terrible, doesn't automatically make them unqualified. And by the same note plenty of teachers can be excellent at teaching a subject they're not strictly qualified for.

Exactly.
Being very good at maths yourself does not necessarily mean that you are any good at explaining it.

The problem about looking for "qualified" maths teachers is that the qualification is for maths, not for teaching. The government only care about having people who are very good at maths, because it's easy to show that off and it makes them look good. It's very hard to demonstrate who is a good teacher, because it can be so subjective. Demanding that maths teachers have advanced pure maths qualifications is a much easier way to bang pots and make it look like they're doing something about the 'maths problem'. It's not about education, it just makes them look good politically.

doc_17

The problems are many and it isn't just underqualified/unqualified second level teachers.

Primary school teachers can achieve a D in OL maths and gain entry to colleges of education. If all you can get in OL Maths is a D you should not be allowed to be a teacher, at any level. Maybe by restricting entry into primary school teaching we could raise maths standards at both primary and second level?

There was a lad here who posted a query wondering if he could get to arts in UCD without a pass in maths. It probably took him longer to type that query than it would have to go online and find it out for himself. It's that type of laziness amongst students today that is half the problem.

Someone else on here said they already decided which questions they were going to do in the LC and only studied these for a christmas test which left them unable to attempt 2 others because they did not bother to cover them. Then that person gives out when the teacher says at the PT meeting that they do their own thing? Serioulsy folks.

grrrrrrrrrr

doc_17 wrote: »

The problems are many and it isn't just underqualified/unqualified second level teachers.

Primary school teachers can achieve a D in OL maths and gain entry to colleges of education. If all you can get in OL Maths is a D you should not be allowed to be a teacher, at any level. Maybe by restricting entry into primary school teaching we could raise maths standards at both primary and second level?

There was a lad here who posted a query wondering if he could get to arts in UCD without a pass in maths. It probably took him longer to type that query than it would have to go online and find it out for himself. It's that type of laziness amongst students today that is half the problem.

Someone else on here said they already decided which questions they were going to do in the LC and only studied these for a christmas test which left them unable to attempt 2 others because they did not bother to cover them. Then that person gives out when the teacher says at the PT meeting that they do their own thing? Serioulsy folks.

Sure what does it matter what they get in maths once they get a HLC3 in irish!?!?! (sarcasm)

gaeilgegrinds1

Ah well only half the, 'Irish,' teachers in my schookl have Irish in their degree. Doing it for one year in college is not enough in my opinion and assuch I'm pretty much constantly filling them in on background info for poems or prose or the stair na Gaeilge. We pay 90 euro a year so only qualified teachers teach in our schools and only teach the subjects they should, but...that has yet to happen! End of the day it's the students who suffer.

grrrrrrrrrr

gaeilgegrinds1 wrote: »

Ah well only half the, 'Irish,' teachers in my schookl have Irish in their degree. Doing it for one year in college is not enough in my opinion and assuch I'm pretty much constantly filling them in on background info for poems or prose or the stair na Gaeilge. We pay 90 euro a year so only qualified teachers teach in our schools and only teach the subjects they should, but...that has yet to happen! End of the day it's the students who suffer.

I dont understand this point?!?! Our parents pay more than 90yo-yos a year on taxes etc

gaeilgegrinds1

As do I, a lot more than 90 euro a year. What don't you understand there? We jump through hoops and provide them with lots of information and scripts etc so we are permitted to teach our subjects only to have teachers who never studied them teach them, that was my point.

Orlaladuck

doc_17 wrote: »

Someone else on here said they already decided which questions they were going to do in the LC and only studied these for a christmas test which left them unable to attempt 2 others because they did not bother to cover them. Then that person gives out when the teacher says at the PT meeting that they do their own thing? Serioulsy folks.

I know it sounds like I'm making excuses here but he meant in Class because on more than one occasion I've come up with the correct answer but through a different method to the one he's shown me. I tried to explain what I'd done, another person in the class twigged what I meant before he did, explained my method to the teacher to which he said essentially it was wrong =/?
Also I never said I didn't attempt them nor I hadn't covered them. I did attempt them and Had done them with the teacher in the school - just not with the grinds teacher.

gaeilgegrinds1

I get what you're saying. And it angers me as it's obvious what is amiss here, an understanding of the primary principles of mathematics. I'm pretty much always able to see things from the pupil's side, particularly in this case.

Orlaladuck

gaeilgegrinds1 wrote: »

I get what you're saying. And it angers me as it's obvious what is amiss here, an understanding of the primary principles of mathematics. I'm pretty much always able to see things from the pupil's side, particularly in this case.

I know your name suggests that you're a grinds teacher but are you a teacher as well? ( I'm not too sure but it's very hinted at and I'm curious)

clartharlear

gaeilgegrinds1 wrote: »

As do I, a lot more than 90 euro a year. What don't you understand there? We jump through hoops and provide them with lots of information and scripts etc so we are permitted to teach our subjects only to have teachers who never studied them teach them, that was my point.

They don't understand because you never said who THEM are. Students wouldn't know about Teaching Council registration fees.

And I don't know about Gaeilge, but the "unqualified" issue in maths is with respect to science and engineering and business graduates teaching maths. It's not fair to say "never studied".

gaeilgegrinds1

Yes I teach full-time at the moment. Took a year out as a carer and did grinds that year which is when I began posting here. I understand the Gaeilge bit might make ye think an opinion on maths is not justified but I was merely discussing unqualified as a topic in general. Apologies of the opinion of a teacher not welcome, I was merely attempting to empathise with students as had this issue myself in school and it meant a lot of confusion when we did eventually get a teacher who knew what they were at & we did not.

gaeilgegrinds1

And just to clarify when I said never studied I am talking about people who actually never studied maths. As in have degrees in totally different areas. I am aware that science, business, commerce etc can have strong elements of maths.

clartharlear

gaeilgegrinds1 wrote: »

I understand the Gaeilge bit might make ye think an opinion on maths is not justified but I was merely discussing unqualified as a topic in general.

Of course your opinion is justified - everyone has a right to an opinion (and to have that opinion questioned) but you backed up your opinion with facts from your experience of Irish, which I thought off-topic.

gaeilgegrinds1 wrote: »

And just to clarify when I said never studied I am talking about people who actually never studied maths. As in have degrees in totally different areas. I am aware that science, business, commerce etc can have strong elements of maths.

I know it's only anecdotal, but have you actually met a teacher teaching maths who has never studied anything maths-related??
The hullabaloo in the media is about people with related,but non-pure-maths, degrees rather than completely unrelated degrees. That's unheard of, as far as I knew.

gaeilgegrinds1

I.T. and French? There may be a little maths in the I.T. part but having your uncle high up in the school probably has more to do with it. I only used the Irish example as that is my area of expertise and am pretty much continually infuriated by making up for other people's mistakes. I love my job but can see so much wrong with the system or lack thereof at the moment.

doc_17

One huge problem I hear from stuents on a daily basis in maths class is "when are we ever gonna use this". I would make the case that people who did engineering and science, as long as they have enough maths in their course, are as qualified as anyone to answer this question

Orla K

I'm not doing the lc or a teacher, I was just bored and stumbled onto this.

I was going to do honors maths but closer to the lc I dropped down to pass. The teacher they had teaching honors, one day couldn't figure out the square root of x squared! Even though me and half the class were telling her. She wasted 15mins trying to figure it out. The reason she didn't pay any attention to half the class was because she would only teach half the class (the half that didn't argue with her, or skip ahead when she started getting confused)

When I dropped down I told her I was doing this and she told me I wasn't able to do honors anyway, I told her she wasn't able to teach honors (my friend told her the same thing, she cried but she was horrible to us)


Her class notes were also written in her husbands hand writing (who was a good teacher)