Plans to make Maths more difficult for all!!!!

z_topaz wrote: »

Since when are people allowed use calculators for the Junior Cert?

Since at least 2004.

gemxpink wrote: »

Since at least 2004.

I never knew that! Learn something new every day eh!

And, having been in the working world for a few years now, I am sometimes still surprised at the random skills I learned in school that have a useful application in practise. Mental arithmetic is one of them. I don't work in a job that requires maths skills, but, from a timesaving perspective, if I need to do a quick scan of an invoice or submit receipts. Even if I'm organising a meeting with ten people arriving at 11am, two leaving shortly afterwards, nineteen coming in soon after, (but some have to leave halfway), a couple of maybes, take into account the no-shows and the people who arrive without warning, etc., and this is all done when I'm on the phone to a querying nit-picker, being able to do some quick head sums is very handy.

furbey wrote: »

I get what you're saying but there are a lot more subjects to think about and generally the maths teachers in schools are sh** with one or two exceptions. They think we're thick anyway and move way too slowly so there isn't time to get extra stuff in the course done.
Like I did nothng last year and I'm repeating this year so its a piece of piss but I think its a bit much to ask of kids to do more when the course is so broad anyway.

I know it's difficult. Believe me, I sympathise with people who have to grapple with exams in six + subjects in one year. But, then again, these are the same subjects that they've been examined on to an extent in the JC, and they've been studying them solidly for at least the last two years.
I think that, were specialised subjects like maths made more difficult, it would be a good way of really separating those who are good studiers/quick learners, from those who really have a skill in a particular area.
When I went to college, I was amazed to be told that any mark over 70% was spectacular and anything over 80% was almost never achieved. The upper sphere of marks is reserved for those with unusual ability.
Whereas, in the Leaving, 70%/80% is easily achievable.
I think bringing this element into the LC would be a good grounder for people who think that if they get a A in maths/physics they are destined for high positions in that field. Also, for certain courses/positions, it would be a better indication for colleges/jobs that the right person is coming in.

z_topaz wrote: »

I know it's difficult. Believe me, I sympathise with people who have to grapple with exams in six + subjects in one year. But, then again, these are the same subjects that they've been examined on to an extent in the JC, and they've been studying them solidly for at least the last two years.
I think that, were specialised subjects like maths made more difficult, it would be a good way of really separating those who are good studiers/quick learners, from those who really have a skill in a particular area.
When I went to college, I was amazed to be told that any mark over 70% was spectacular and anything over 80% was almost never achieved. The upper sphere of marks is reserved for those with unusual ability.
Whereas, in the Leaving, 70%/80% is easily achievable.
I think bringing this element into the LC would be a good grounder for people who think that if they get a A in maths/physics they are destined for high positions in that field. Also, for certain courses/positions, it would be a better indication for colleges/jobs that the right person is coming in.

Agreed, the CAO system needs some sort of overhaul, doing honours maths can be seen as a pretty stupid move in the points race. I was the best maths student in the school, put loads of study hours into it and managed to get an A. In geography me and my friend did barely any work and both got A's in it as well for a fraction of the effort. Same difficulty with physics and chemistry. You can be naturally gifted in some subjects and do well in it with little effort. For the science courses it seems you need both talent and hard work to do well.

I remeber my relief when I was informed 70% was an A in college, getting 85%+ to get a top grade seemed pretty much impossible.

furbey wrote: »

I might be wrong here, but I would imagine that engineers are more suited to teaching applied maths.

your right you are wrong

the only time there is a difference between maths and applied maths is in secondary school all maths are learned to be applied

removing calculators is retarded you should be allowed use them in any exam that is not testing addition subtraction multiplication and division

other than that maths should definitely be made harder and our teachers better

I can't find this report anywhere, could someone link it?

Who is this "genius"?

In JC, I think calculators are alright for honours maths anyway. Surely any honours student knows how divide, multiply, add and subtract.

Are calculators allowed in primary school though?! Surely not! They weren't when I was there anyway. That'd be a complete disaster. "Right Timmy, instead of learning how to add, subtract, multiply or divide, punch some keys on a calculator". I sincerely hope that calculators are not currently allowed (are they?) This means we have a generation of mathematically stunted students coming up.

jumpguy wrote: »

I can't find this report anywhere, could someone link it?

Who is this "genius"?

In JC, I think calculators are alright for honours maths anyway. Surely any honours student knows how divide, multiply, add and subtract.

Are calculators allowed in primary school though?! Surely not! They weren't when I was there anyway. That'd be a complete disaster. "Right Timmy, instead of learning how to add, subtract, multiply or divide, punch some keys on a calculator". I sincerely hope that calculators are not currently allowed (are they?) This means we have a generation of mathematically stunted students coming up.

They are allowed them from 3rd class, I think. Its a complete and utter joke and horribly unfair to the students themselves in the long run.

Its almost like allowing them to use a dictophone to do english.

Lawliet wrote: »

I disagree; it sounds completely unfair on people who have dyscalculia or dyslexia.

Well in the long run they are going to have to deal with in the real world. Perhaps they could bring in exceptions for people wit these conditions and allow them to use them

pljudge321 wrote: »

They are allowed them from 3rd class, I think. Its a complete and utter joke and horribly unfair to the students themselves in the long run.

Its almost like allowing them to use a dictophone to do english.

Oh wow...that's indeed terrible. Whatever about JC...but primary school is ridiculous. How long has this been in place?

Making It Bad wrote: »

This might sound a bit non-politically correct but that will give a more accurate representation of those students' mathematical ability, won't it?

Not necessarily. I have a mild form of dyslexia, I'm doing ordinary level maths and can easily get an A in most tests. But I use a calculator for any sort of sums, not because I can't work them out in my head, but purely to check that the number on the page is the one it's suppose to be. You wouldn't believe the amount of times I've mixed up 9s and 6s and 5s for 3s and so on. And don't even get me started on the signs.
Those mistakes have got nothing to do with my mathematical ability, it's a seperate neurological condition.

Also, often people with dyscalculia can understand very complex mathematical concepts and principles, it's usually the basics they have trouble with.

lc2010 wrote: »

Well in the long run they are going to have to deal with in the real world.

Because there are no calculators in the "real world"?

H2student wrote: »

They allow calculators in primary schools now? Multiplying was about the only thing I learned from it....

I don't quite remember the Junior Cert(despite only being two years ago) so I don't remember what kind of questions comes up but I would hate it if I have to do use the quardratic formula without it. From what I can remember, there was a lot of decimals.... Apart from that, I don't think I used the calculator for anything.

Yeah, using the -b formula without calculators would be very annoying.

With the new maths and formulae tables though, it appears the SEC have dug themselves quite a hole. Get rid of calculators in primary school anyway, definetly. I don't think they're really that bad in JC.

jumpguy wrote: »

With the new maths and formulae tables though, it appears the SEC have dug themselves quite a hole.

I don't know what they were thinking with those new tables. It will be interesting to see how they'll change the questions next June. Something tells me we wont be getting any easy marks for slotting numbers into given formula.

lc2010 wrote: »

I'm not saying that, but unless one carries a calculator with them every where they go, at some stage they are going to be faced with a situation where they have to do some simple maths.

Most phones have calculators now

Lawliet wrote: »

Most phones have calculators now

You know what I mean!!
As H2student said there is an inconvenience in using them in the real world.