12 yr old being prosectued for murder as an adult

epgc3fyqirnbsx · 10-02-2010 05:26PM

trevosaur wrote: »

well only in america does this happen but yer wan prob deserved a hiding as im sure he did it for a reason but I think he should be locked up for also killing an unborn child. Whats a life sentence in america? Isnt it 25 years or is he in there until the day he dies from old age?

The judiciary in the US have a lot more discretion with minimum and mandatory sentencing but I think it differs from state to state

Really think that the Irish judges would love the power to impose minimum sentencing in murder trials

Ticktactoe · 10-02-2010 05:31PM

Beruthiel wrote: »

I have two questions,
How does any right minded parent miss this kind of hate towards thier new partner?
How does an 11 year old get his hands on a gun?

Great parenting, something tells me his up bringing wasn't exactly top notch.

Was about to post those two questions myself.

It has been posted that the child does not know what he was doing, doesn't understand 'long-term' and think back when you were that age........................ I know when I was 11, I wasn't taking guns to peoples heads and pulling the trigger.

Im sure he knew that she was pregnant - was there issues of another child coming into the family. Its a hard one to tried and figure out without more info.

It is sad that an 11 years old has this sort of unbringing and would you give your 11 year old child a gun for easter?

Barracudaincork · 10-02-2010 05:45PM

I know the kid is only 11, but he knew how to use that gun and what the gun was for. He knew how to load that gun and pull the trigger, he knew by pulling that trigger he could kill her, just like the animals he had killed when he was out hunting, therefore i do think this kid is more aware of what he was doing than most other 11 year olds and although not quite an adult, he still knew what he was doing IMO.

Overheal · 10-02-2010 05:48PM

This is nothing to get too worked up about. All it means is that the Plantiff wants the boy tried and sentenced as an adult.

That doesn't mean he will be found guilty as, or sentenced, as an Adult. Thats for the Judge and Jury.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 10-02-2010 05:48PM

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Read the link.

Shocking stuff.

... in that case, the parent should face action as well.

allisbleak · 10-02-2010 05:48PM

trevosaur wrote: »

well only in america does this happen but yer wan prob deserved a hiding as im sure he did it for a reason but I think he should be locked up for also killing an unborn child. Whats a life sentence in america? Isnt it 25 years or is he in there until the day he dies from old age?

What are you talking about. there are 10 years olds here who handle guns and know how to use them

inforfun · 10-02-2010 05:53PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

You do know he's pleaded not guilty, don't you?

Yes, i do know but dont they (almost) always do?
I also know that he is only a suspect so far.
But there must be a reason why he is locked up for over a year now.

AnonoBoy · 10-02-2010 05:56PM

Overheal wrote: »

Which part, does this only happen in America?

Yes. No child has ever murdered anyone outside of America.

MagicMarker · 10-02-2010 06:00PM

I don't mind the kid being tried as an adult. I think he did it and I think it was pre-meditated. But putting an 11 year old in an adult prison is just shocking tbh. At the end of the day, he's still a child.

I also think the father should be held accountable. The child having his own gun doesn't bother me as there is supervision when he's out hunting with his dad, but when they're not out hunting the gun should be locked away and the son should NOT have access!!

we'llallhavetea_old · 10-02-2010 06:15PM

i think he should be treated as an adult, at eleven yrs old, i was well aware of good/bad. and i think any 11yr old child (especially one that hunts animals) would fully understand the outcome of shooting someone in the head.

leaving a gun available for an eleven yr old child to use when unsupervised is one of the most retarded things i've ever heard.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 10-02-2010 06:30PM

inforfun wrote: »

Yes, i do know but dont they (almost) always do?
I also know that he is only a suspect so far.
But there must be a reason why he is locked up for over a year now.

Lovely. You're excused jury duty.

LittleBook · 10-02-2010 06:31PM

Barracudaincork wrote: »

I know the kid is only 11, but he knew how to use that gun and what the gun was for. He knew how to load that gun and pull the trigger, he knew by pulling that trigger he could kill her, just like the animals he had killed when he was out hunting, therefore i do think this kid is more aware of what he was doing than most other 11 year olds and although not quite an adult, he still knew what he was doing IMO.

+1

In the case of homicide, "my choice is either to charge him as an adult, or don't charge him," said John Bongivengo of the Lawrence County District Attorney's Office. "Not charging him at all wasn't feasible."

Aside from the legalities of trying him as an adult, this is not some kid who nicked his daddy's gun.

This kid is an experienced hunter, in possession of his own "youth-sized 20 gauge shotgun" ffs :rolleyes:, who knew exactly what would happen when he pulled that trigger ... allegedly of course.

Thoie · 10-02-2010 06:38PM

HalloweenJack wrote: »

It's impossible for us to regress to that age and truly understand what's going on in his mind. We can't judge him by our adult standards. And I don't think we can say: "When I was 11, I knew the difference", etc..

It is impossible to delete everything that you've experienced since you were 11 and be able to genuinely state you remember exactly what you thought back then.

While I agree I can't entirely remember what it was like being 11, I'm pretty certain that I can say I knew I shouldn't endanger other people at that age. I knew that I shouldn't steal things, or cheat in tests, and that I should tidy my bedroom. I understood more immediate consequences (if you don't tidy your room you're not going to X next week). I may not have precisely understood the legal consequences for me (if I had killed someone), but I would have understood death.

A friend of mine died in a house fire when I was that age, and when I was told I didn't need it explained to me. I had the understanding of the finality of death, the grieving of an adult, I understood why the adults were so upset, and I was able to empathise with her parents (who survived). The bit I didn't understand was "time heals all wounds" - I didn't grasp that some day it would become just a memory, I thought the grief would go on for ever and ever.

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I think a thorough psychiatric evaluation should be conducted on the child before the courts can decide how to try him. Unless he's experienced a death in the family or in life, I'm guessing the only deaths he's come into contact with are fictional ones and, more often than not, fiction merely covers the act of death. It rarely deals with the subsequent consequences.

As above, without having first hand experience of death at the age of 11, I knew what it was about, and knew the general consequences. I knew that if you hurt someone you went to prison. I did not comprehend what "going to prison" was like - it was something I equated with being sent to your room, but longer. I would not have realised that there were years of solicitors, court cases, wearing a suit, being photographed, and all the other incidentals between the crime and the punishment.

I don't see any problem with him being tried as an adult, and subject to adult sentencing terms if found guilty (remember he's only been accused so far). I wouldn't agree with keeping an 11 year old in an adult prison.

PeakOutput · 10-02-2010 06:44PM

Barracudaincork wrote: »

I know the kid is only 11, but he knew how to use that gun and what the gun was for. He knew how to load that gun and pull the trigger, he knew by pulling that trigger he could kill her, just like the animals he had killed when he was out hunting, therefore i do think this kid is more aware of what he was doing than most other 11 year olds and although not quite an adult, he still knew what he was doing IMO.

this is basically what im thinking too

i dont have a particular problem with kids of a certain age going hunting with their parents as i dont have any problem with hunting. but with that experience comes the knowledge and realisation that death is final he cant plead ignorance to the finality of his actions when he has probably killed numerous animals

the prosecutor also said his choices were charge him as an adult or dont charge him at all so it dosnt seem like his heart is in it

also its the very ambiguity about childrens mental capacity that caused the american supreme court to ban people under 18 being executed a few years ago i can imagine the family of the kid / the prosecutor and any judge that has the possibility of hearing this case thanking their lucky stars on that one

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 10-02-2010 07:01PM

PeakOutput wrote: »

t

the prosecutor also said his choices were charge him as an adult or dont charge him at all so it dosnt seem like his heart is in it

also its the very ambiguity about childrens mental capacity that caused the american supreme court to ban people under 18 being executed a few years ago i can imagine the family of the kid / the prosecutor and any judge that has the possibility of hearing this case thanking their lucky stars on that one

I was just about to say Pennsylvania apparently has the death penalty. Anyone going to stuck their neck out and say they think he should go to the chair if found guilty?

Logic would dictate that, if you're going to try someone as adult, you'd better be prepared to sentence one as an adult too. Otherwise, what's the point?

citizen_p · 10-02-2010 07:26PM

hes fukin mental...put him away.

edit : why not....
1. hes bloody mental....
2. who would want to live after that. no friends/ family diszones him etc..unable to contribute to society... just a burden on the state

(awaits hate mail and"what if your (family, cousin friend etc) did this blah blah blah")

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 10-02-2010 07:32PM

Mousey- wrote: »

hes fukin mental...put him away.

edit : why not....
1. hes bloody mental....
2. who would want to live after that. no friends/ family diszones him etc..unable to contribute to society... just a burden on the state

(awaits hate mail and"what if your (family, cousin friend etc) did this blah blah blah")

I'll go for something even more basic: read the news report

CrazyRabbit · 10-02-2010 07:49PM

It's the parent that should be on trial. No child, if raised correctly, would commit such an act.

The boy needs a whole lot of therapy and long term supervision. And yes, he should also be punished, but within reason and in a manner that will not harm his future social integration. He is young enough to have a high probability of being rehabilitated.

Of course, this is assuming that he is in fact guilty.

epgc3fyqirnbsx · 10-02-2010 07:57PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I was just about to say Pennsylvania apparently has the death penalty. Anyone going to stuck their neck out and say they think he should go to the chair if found guilty?

Logic would dictate that, if you're going to try someone as adult, you'd better be prepared to sentence one as an adult too. Otherwise, what's the point?

I am opposed to the death penalty anyway, though I can understand why some people are not.

However, I will not be able to get into anyones frame of mind who thinks its ok to excecute and 11 year old...

we'llallhavetea_old · 10-02-2010 07:58PM

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

It's the parent that should be on trial. No child, if raised correctly, would commit such an act.

The boy needs a whole lot of therapy and long term supervision. And yes, he should also be punished, but within reason and in a manner that will not harm his future social integration. He is young enough to have a high probability of being rehabilitated.

Of course, this is assuming that he is in fact guilty.

i have to disagree with you there.

the child could be psycho, nobodys fault.

but we know that he had access to a gun, so yeah, sh!tty parenting.

epgc3fyqirnbsx · 10-02-2010 08:00PM

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

i have to disagree with you there.

the child could be psycho, nobodys fault.

but we know that he had access to a gun, so yeah, sh!tty parenting.

Yeah, he could well be psycho

Thats why a childrens court would be best, if he needs to be locked up he will and could probably get an earlier hearing

IvySlayer · 10-02-2010 08:01PM

abouttobebanned wrote: »

That's a pretty inaccurate attempt at thanks whoring. (You can always depend on "My name is Url" to be there and ready at the start of the thread with some stupid "witty" comment)

I think you'll find he's one of the best posters on this forum.

abouttobebanned wrote: »

As someone else said, it's hard to comment in more depth without knowing the full details of the case. 11 year olds know what they're doing but they're definitely more susceptible to TV and computer games than an adult.

A 12 year shot someone, its very simple. He should be locked away forever if found guilty. Don't blame games and TV. I played very violent games at my friends house at that age. And watched some scary ****.

abouttobebanned wrote: »

It's a tragic case, and the child should be punished, but after about 2 years in court he'll be shocked himself at what he did

There's something wrong with him. He's a lost cause. Will he feel guilt? Possibly. Doesn't excuse the crime. - If he's found guilty anyway.

CrazyRabbit · 10-02-2010 08:02PM

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

i have to disagree with you there.

the child could be psycho, nobodys fault.

but we know that he had access to a gun, so yeah, sh!tty parenting.

If he is a 'psycho', then the parents should have recognised this and got some professional help.

From what I read in the article, the boy seemed pretty 'normal'.

we'llallhavetea_old · 10-02-2010 08:05PM

Everlee Noisy Azimuth wrote: »

Yeah, he could well be psycho

Thats why a childrens court would be best, if he needs to be locked up he will and could probably get an earlier hearing

well, they're gonna pick up on any mental illness wether he is treated as an adult anyway. if he's a psycho they'll deal with him accordingly.

but if he's not a psycho, and he did this because, well, he's a bad fecker, then i think he should be handed out a very long sentence.

we'llallhavetea_old · 10-02-2010 08:07PM

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

If he is a 'psycho', then the parents should have recognised this and got some professional help.

From what I read in the article, the boy seemed pretty 'normal'.

he may not have shown any signs tbf. anyway, we just don't know enough information yet. the poor little bollocks might not have even done it!

epgc3fyqirnbsx · 10-02-2010 08:09PM

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

well, they're gonna pick up on any mental illness wether he is treated as an adult anyway. if he's a psycho they'll deal with him accordingly.

but if he's not a psycho, and he did this because, well, he's a bad fecker, then i think he should be handed out a very long sentence.

yeah if he is a bad bastard then keep him locked away from society

I just don't see why when a crime is serious someone becomes an adult, there's a legal distinction between adults and children because it is thought that children haven't developed the relevant understanding of the seriousness of their acts

I used to pocket the odd bar of chocolate when I was 10, I would have hated to have been prosecuted as an adult because of it. And I knew it was wrong and my parents had taught me so

Thoie · 10-02-2010 08:09PM

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

It's the parent that should be on trial. No child, if raised correctly, would commit such an act.

I only partially agree. In the vast majority of cases I would blame the parent(s), but sometimes people/children just do very strange things. I don't think anyone ever expressly sits their child down and says "By the way, shooting people in the head isn't acceptable, particularly if they're in bed."

I would question the purchase of a shotgun for a child, however people buy their kids all kinds of "dangerous" things, and in the majority of cases they teach the child to be careful with them. If that kid was out hunting with his father he was probably taught things like "don't carry a loaded shotgun around", "don't point it at anyone, even if it's unloaded", "try not to stick it down your trousers" and all the usual things.

If the child went so far as to extract the weapon from a secure place, load it, and bring it to a specific room (and we don't know that he did), you can't necessarily pin that on poor upbringing.

Minstrel27 · 10-02-2010 08:09PM

Pre meditated shot at someones head. I say charge as an adult.

Dionysus · 10-02-2010 08:21PM

ballsymchugh wrote: »

hmmm... he's been named. over here he wouldn't be named for legal reasons. why is that?? even someone up to 16 i think? surely if they've killed someone suspiciously then the name should be known

Just a wild guess but it could have something to do with a radical concept like innocent until proven guilty.

PeakOutput · 10-02-2010 08:35PM

i think this person has been named because the family have come forward to speak to the media thats what i got from the article

12 yr old being prosectued for murder as an adult

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