What's Worse? Rape or Murder?

littlefriend · 09-02-2010 12:18AM

KeithAFC wrote: »

Rape is only bad when a woman gets raped but no one seems to care when its a man.

God, I don't think that is true at all.

Sorry about your friend Pete.

OutlawPete · 09-02-2010 12:23AM

pookie82 wrote: »

which implied a number of HYPOTHETICAL outcomes of being raped.

Exactly what my initial point was :rolleyes:

You say you could easily say all that hypothetical crap implying that that is what I had done and you know it, don't play naive.

We are on the internet.

Anything that anybody says could be horses**t, so should we just stop discussing stuff or just have every reply to every post.. be "that's just anecdotal"?

If you had genuinely said that you had a friend who was raped and took her own life and I came on and said:

"Well, I could easily say that I had a friend blah blah blah" - would you not be insulted?

Of course you would be and you'd be 100% right to feel like that.

I would be an arsehole to respond to someone talking about the death of a friend with such comments as:

"I could just say my friend took her own life".

Which for the last time is implying that that is what I did, otherwise why say it in reply to that post.

pookie82 · 09-02-2010 12:37AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

Exactly what my initial point was :rolleyes:

You say you could easily say all that hypothetical crap implying that that is what I had done and you know it, don't play naive.

We are on the internet.

Anything that anybody says could be horses**t, so should we just stop discussing stuff or just have every reply to every post.. be "that's just anecdotal"?

If you had genuinely said that you had a friend who was raped and took her own life and I came on and said:

"Well, I could easily say that I had a friend blah blah blah" - would you not be insulted?

Of course you would be and you'd be 100% right to feel like that.

I would be an arsehole to respond to someone talking about the death of a friend with such comments as:

"I could just say my friend took her own life".

Which for the last time is implying that that is what I did, otherwise why say it in reply to that post.

I'm genuinely amused that you think you know better than I did what I meant. I have never argued with anyone so pig headed in my life. YOU TOOK ME UP WRONG. If i thought you were a liar, why would I be denying it now? Why wouldn't I just persist?

My giving hypothetical situations does not imply that your story was hypothetical. Anecdotal does not mean made up/falsified - it means a story of an experience which may not be the average norm when subjected to actual research. That DOESN"T MEAN I THINK YOU LIED. Why would I?

If you want to remain firm in your own mind that you know better about what I meant then I myself do, fire away. There's clearly no arguing with you. You are incapable of reason here.

Just for the record, dictionary definition of anecdote: "a usually short narrative of an interesting, amusing, or biographical incident". Doesn't imply anywhere that something is false.

PK2008 · 09-02-2010 12:38AM

Its possible to get over rape

Murder....not so much

OutlawPete · 09-02-2010 12:38AM

littlefriend wrote: »

Sorry about your friend Pete.

Thanks but long time ago now and didn't mention how it effected me at all as I just wanted to stick to how I have witnessed how it effects someone's immediate family, that was my point.

OutlawPete · 09-02-2010 12:57AM

pookie82 wrote: »

I'm genuinely amused that you think you know better than I did what I meant.

Glad your amused.

I am not saying that were flat out saying that I was lying okay.

I am saying that there is an implication in a reply that goes..

"Well I could just say my friend took her own life".

That implication is there whether you like it or not and I fail to see how you can't see that.

pookie82 wrote: »

My giving hypothetical situations does not imply that your story was hypothetical.

You DID NOT give 'hypothetical situations'!

You said you COULD and so implying that is what I had just done.

pookie82 wrote: »

Just for the record, dictionary definition of anecdote: "a usually short narrative of an interesting, amusing, or biographical incident". Doesn't imply anywhere that something is false.

I know what anecdotal means thanks very much :rolleyes:

I don't have a major issue with the anecdotal part. Stop focusing on that.

It was the part where you said and I repeat:

pookie82 wrote: »

I could tell you that my best friend who was raped since took her own life/cuts herself, suffers from depression and cannot trust anyone.

You also said:

pookie82 wrote: »

I could say I know the family of a murder victim who were greatly scarred and still are but who have moved on with their lives and are coping well.

This last quote is more or less saying that you could easily lie and is full of implications when said in reply to someone that has just said his best friend was murdered and his family AREN'T coping very well.

Do you know the family of a murder victim who moved on and are coping well??

Again, if you had said your friend took her own life after she was raped and I said:

"I could easily say that I know someone who was raped and they are coping fine.."

Would you not feel that that is suggesting that you are not being 100% honest?

pookie82 · 09-02-2010 01:06AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

Glad your amused.

I am not saying that were flat out saying that I was lying okay.

I am saying that there is an implication in a reply that goes..

"Well I could just say my friend took her own life".

That implication is there whether you like it or not and I fail to see how you can't see that.

You DID NOT give 'hypothetical situations'!

You said you COULD and so implying that is what I had just done.

I know what anecdotal means thanks very much :rolleyes:

I don't have a major issue with the anecdotal part. Stop focusing on that.

It was the part where you said and I repeat:

You also said:

This last quote is more or less saying that you could easily lie.

Do you know the family of a murder victim who moved on and are coping well??

Again, if you had said your friend took her own life after she was raped and I said:

"I could easily say that I know someone who was raped and they are coping fine.."

Would you not feel that that is suggesting that you are not being 100% honest?

Look, I am beating on a closed door here. I have already explained that the "I" I used stood for the potential for anyone to give their anecdotal evidence - I did not mean to imply anywhere that it would be false, or that yours was false. You have taken me up completely wrong and have gone way over the top with it. You refuse to listen to reason. In your head you are convinced that for no good reason and with no motive, I wanted to imply that you were telling falsehoods. If I thought you were lying, I would have said " I think you're telling porkies there Outlaw Pete, and here's why....."

You cannot see that I was trying to make the point the poster after me made. That's your problem. If you wish to actively take insult to something that was never intended to be insulting and run with it and work yourself up over it, then that's your tough luck. You're the one with the problem, not me.

If I was genuinely questioning your truthfulness then why didn't I persist in my later arguments?

I've never seen anyone read something so wildly wrong and refuse to listen to repeated attempts to clarify it. Good luck to you.

pookie82 · 09-02-2010 01:12AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

Again, if you had said your friend took her own life after she was raped and I said:

"I could easily say that I know someone who was raped and they are coping fine.."

Would you not feel that that is suggesting that you are not being 100% honest?

No, I would have the cop on to realise that they were talking about anecdotal evidence versus the potential actual norm, and the potential for anecdotal evidence from someone else to suggest the opposite, as reiterated time and again in their posts.

I'm going to bed. You really are exhausting.

OutlawPete · 09-02-2010 01:28AM

pookie82 wrote: »

You cannot see that I was trying to make the point the poster after me made. That's your problem.

Oh, I see .. your trying to make the same point the poster after you made and I'm really just having a go at you for no reason.

pookie82 wrote: »

If you wish to actively take insult to something that was never intended to be insulting and run with it and work yourself up over it,

Oh i'm not worked up, just calling you on your bull.

Still didn't answer the one question I have put to you in the last two posts I see, nevermid .. I understand why.

pookie82 wrote: »

You're the one with the problem, not me.

I never said you had a problem :rolleyes:

So, let me get this clear. You say I have a problem and I that I am 'pigheaded'

Sounds to me like your the one worked up.

'Pigheaded' you say.. maybe I should:

OutlawPete thinks your the one with issues and..

Nah, doesn't suit me

Nevyn · 09-02-2010 01:37AM

KeithAFC wrote: »

Murder is worse.

Rape is only bad when a woman gets raped but no one seems to care when its a man.

That's rubbish, it is that there is such stigma to being a male rape victim that so few come forward never mind press charges but there are servies for men and women and you are wrong to say no one seems to care.

Seloth · 09-02-2010 01:47AM

Murder by far...Dont get me wrong rape is horrible but as someone said already..you can still breath after rape.

Bonito · 09-02-2010 02:50AM

Depends on the situation really. Rape is, IMO, always pre-meditated and thought out and planned. Murder can sometimes be heat of the moment, obviously then coming under manslaughter. If both where pre-meditated acts of crime then I'd go with murder. For someone to take the life of another person is inexcusable.

bodice ripper · 09-02-2010 02:52AM

maybe if society would stop telling rape victims that their lives are ruined, it wouldn't have such an impact....

Piste · 09-02-2010 03:14AM

vinylmesh wrote: »

Seriously?

A penis up a vagina can = murder?

I know it's a horrible, emotionally destroying experience. But, at the end of the day you're still alive.

- at someone even asking this question.

Y'know, men can get raped too!

KeithAFC wrote: »

Murder is worse.

Rape is only bad when a woman gets raped but no one seems to care when its a man.

What makes you think that? I would have as much sympathy for a man as a woman if either were raped. Maybe even more for the man as it'd be more painful (physically)

bodice ripper wrote: »

maybe if society would stop telling rape victims that their lives are ruined, it wouldn't have such an impact....

Do you think that rape victims feel the way they do because they think they should?

Personally I'd rather be raped than murdered. At least I'd have the possibility of getting over it, if I were murdered I'd have no choice. Also I couldn't seek revenge if I were dead.

Soulja boy · 09-02-2010 03:16AM

If murder can be justified as an act of war, why cant rape?

OutlawPete · 09-02-2010 03:21AM

Soulja boy wrote: »

If murder can be justified as an act of war, why cant rape?

Cause inherently with rape, pleasure is involved.

No act of war that is pleasure inducing can be justified as then the accusation of mere war mongering would be thrown, and rightfully so.

Of course then you could argue 'do fighter pilots get happy when they strike their targets'?

Soulja boy · 09-02-2010 03:29AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

Cause inherently with rape, pleasure is involved.

No act of war that is pleasure inducing can be justified as then the accusation of mere war mongering would be thrown, and rightfully so.

Of course then you could argue 'do fighter pilots get happy when they strike their targets'?

That is assuming that killing someone isn't pleasurable, some times it can be the best feeling in the world. And not even with the fighter pilots; Theres shots, knives and bare hands.
There IS a pleasure to it. Not to everyone, moreover not to MOST people. But often the kind of people who enter this line of work are the kind who get that kick.

The UN, and various treaties go against rape used in warfare but its still common in the torn African nations and in some of the dodgy spots of south America.

Perhaps it has something to do with the kind of life you leave the victim with.
For instance you cannot blind soldiers under the geneva convention (thats why laser weapons are banned), but you can kill him outright as a sanctioned act of war.

OutlawPete · 09-02-2010 03:37AM

Soulja boy wrote: »

That is assuming that killing someone isn't pleasurable, some times it can be the best feeling in the world.

Yes, but with rape you are not achieving anything but pleasure. It's not as if rape kills someone.

Soulja boy · 09-02-2010 03:53AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

Yes, but with rape you are not achieving anything but pleasure. It's not as if rape kills someone.

Untrue, rape can often kill prepubescents, again a common occurrence in the rough parts of Africa in supposed military action.

OutlawPete · 09-02-2010 03:56AM

This is one strange discourse my friend

Soulja boy wrote: »

Untrue, rape can often kill prepubescents, again a common occurrence in the rough parts of Africa in supposed military action.

Why would any soldier want to kill a prepubescent?

Soulja boy · 09-02-2010 04:03AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

This is one strange discourse my friend

Why would any soldier want to kill a prepubescent?

They often die inadvertently through rape as I was saying, but asking why a soldier would want to kill a prepubescent is the same as asking why they would want to kill anyone:
For the thrill of it.
To release aggression.
To fulfill some deep seated need, however sick that is.

And its also a misconception that rape is just for pleasure.
Rape is about dominating someone, its not just about the sexual pleasure, its about ruining them, making them yours, or releasing your frustrations upon them.

Our more civilized military condone murder but not rape. As is common in other more backwards cultures.
Why is rape a bigger evil then murder in this societies view?

OutlawPete · 09-02-2010 04:04AM

Soulja boy wrote: »

They often die inadvertently through rape as I was saying, but asking why a soldier would want to kill a prepubescent is the same as asking why they would want to kill anyone:
For the thrill of it.
To release aggression.
To fulfill some deep seated need, however sick that is.

And its also a misconception that rape is just for pleasure.
Rape is about dominating someone, its not just about the sexual pleasure, its about ruining them, making them yours, or releasing your frustrations upon them.

Our more civilized military condone murder but not rape. As is common in other more backwards cultures.
Why is rape a bigger evil then murder in this societies view?

You've got me so.

Red_Marauder · 09-02-2010 04:30AM

Soulja boy wrote: »

If murder can be justified as an act of war, why cant rape?

Wow it's rare that a post in AH really makes you think... but that's a very interesting question.

I suppose you could say that rape is geared typically towards those who are not in active combat - i.e. women. Then again, murdering soldiers also has an impact on not only women, but entire dependent families, and is far more longterm and irreversible.

Rape does reign down a sort of terror over a society, which partly of the fucntion of a war, so I think there is a good case to answer for there.

Could it be possible that it is a preferable method of warfare to murder?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 09-02-2010 07:08AM

Soulja boy wrote: »

If murder can be justified as an act of war, why cant rape?

You already know the answer to that rediculous question.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 09-02-2010 07:12AM

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Wow it's rare that a post in AH really makes you think... but that's a very interesting question.

I suppose you could say that rape is geared typically towards those who are not in active combat - i.e. women. Then again, murdering soldiers also has an impact on not only women, but entire dependent families, and is far more longterm and irreversible.

Rape does reign down a sort of terror over a society, which partly of the fucntion of a war, so I think there is a good case to answer for there.

Could it be possible that it is a preferable method of warfare to murder?

What? You actually thought for a moment, "why can rape not be an act of war"... What in the sweet devine fcuk do you people be thinking?

Why is genocide not "ok" in war? Or the killing of POW's? Why are civilians not targeted purposely?

There shouldn't even be a discussion about it...

Pdfile · 09-02-2010 08:15AM

Homer wrote: »

The classic chat up line.... "Don't let this rape turn into a murder"

used it before, either she gives you a WTF smile or a smack in the face... either way... Let the raep Ensue

Nevyn · 09-02-2010 09:51AM

bodice ripper wrote: »

maybe if society would stop telling rape victims that their lives are ruined, it wouldn't have such an impact....

Do you know anyone who has been rapes and how it can shatter their life leaving them picking up the pieces for years to come and how it changes them
so they never get over it but have to learn to live with what has happened to them and it's fall out?

Who they were before the rape is dead and they grieve for who they were and the life they had before.

09-02-2010 10:45AM

bodice ripper wrote: »

maybe if society would stop telling rape victims that their lives are ruined, it wouldn't have such an impact....

Yes because it's society's fault that rape victims suffer :rolleyes:

Wacker · 09-02-2010 11:03AM

My sister was raped by someone known to us. She was dead within six months. Would it have been worse had he just cut her throat rather than rape her? Absolutely.

Bolag_the_2nd · 09-02-2010 11:05AM

Wacker wrote: »

My sister was raped by someone known to us. She was dead within six months. Would it have been worse had he just cut her throat rather than rape her? Absolutely.

sorry to hear that, hope you and your family are coping,

What's Worse? Rape or Murder?

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