What's Worse? Rape or Murder?

OutlawPete · 08-02-2010 11:09PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Well see that's where we definitely differ in opinion.

I would be of the opinion that the crime with the higher impact is the worse crime.

Then we don't differ

Bolag_the_2nd · 08-02-2010 11:11PM

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

woah there nelly!

i don't expect anyone to get over rape, so i dunno why you're asking me this?

personally i would pick rape, i have a child to think about, i would get on with my life. i couldn't do that if i was murdered, could i?

ok. didnt mean to be so forcefull, however, i have two grown up girls, in my opinion, i would rather die than have to live through rape, i could not go back to my life and struggle through such an ordeal. to me, its not an option, thats my opinion

pookie82 · 08-02-2010 11:12PM

Agonist wrote: »

I agree with everything you've said there except that my main point is that murder victims have every possible outcome and option removed. A rape victim has his/her options reduced but not removed.

I don't mean to be cruel but every rape victim who hasn't killed herself has chosen life over death.

With all due respect, I'm sure there are many rape victims out there who are living shells of lives. They may not be running out to kill themselves but they aren't exactly celebrating each day.

You value life (or the chance at life) at least above all else, and that's fair enough.

I would rather be killed instantly/in a relatively short period of time, have my life ended forever, than face the physical and emotional consequences of rape. Not everyone values life at all costs. We both have our reasons.

we'llallhavetea_old · 08-02-2010 11:12PM

yes, the higher the impact the more henious the crime.

murder is leaving the victim with no options, some people can live on after rape. but murder victims have not got any choice. nothing

we'llallhavetea_old · 08-02-2010 11:14PM

Bolag_the_2nd wrote: »

ok. didnt mean to be so forcefull, however, i have two grown up girls, in my opinion, i would rather die than have to live through rape, i could not go back to my life and struggle through such an ordeal. to me, its not an option, thats my opinion

thats ok

we're just different people and thats fine.

i would rather live.

08-02-2010 11:16PM

OutlawPete wrote: »

Then we don't differ

Your previous post doesn't make sense to me then

Bolag_the_2nd · 08-02-2010 11:17PM

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

thats ok

we're just different people and thats fine.

i would rather live.

thats grand, u have your opinion and i have mine, lets not fall out. i just get so worked up with stuff like this, i feel the pain of the victims, thank god its second hand

we'llallhavetea_old · 08-02-2010 11:20PM

Bolag_the_2nd wrote: »

thats grand, u have your opinion and i have mine, lets not fall out. i just get so worked up with stuff like this, i feel the pain of the victims, thank god its second hand

oh don't worry, it would take more than a discussion to make me fall out with you

i think this is a great thread, its interesting to see peoples opinions, i was so cock sure that everyone would pick murder as the worst, i'm shocked.

it really needs a poll, dunno who can do that though.

Agonist · 08-02-2010 11:21PM

The-Rigger wrote: »

My first thought would be of the psychological scars.

There won't be any psychological scars if the person is murdered, hence you want to find if they're alive or dead first.

Entirely subjective and unquantifiable.

This whole thread could be seem in the same way, subjective and unquantifiable.

I respect people's right to their own feelings about rape v. murder in terms of if it were to happen to them.

However, I wouldn't like to see rape being considered worse in law, especially when there are the victims' loved ones to think of.

OutlawPete · 08-02-2010 11:23PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Your previous post doesn't make sense to me then

You see, I think, no .. I know that murder has a greater impact than rape does.

My best friend from the age of 12 was murdered at 23. The most horrific murder this country has ever seen by the way.

I seen what that has done to his family to this day. Their minds are destroyed with images of what happened to him.

He's gone for good and I nor his family will ever see him again.

I only know one girl who was raped and she has taken it in her stride.

It was date rape so maybe that was easier to come to terms with, I don't know.

Bolag_the_2nd · 08-02-2010 11:24PM

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

oh don't worry, it would take more than a discussion to make me fall out with you

i think this is a great thread, its interesting to see peoples opinions, i was so cock sure that everyone would pick murder as the worst, i'm shocked.

it really needs a poll, dunno who can do that though.

i just hope that this tread does not affect the lives of the people that view the post, it stands to reason that people who view this may be affected by either!

pookie82 · 08-02-2010 11:25PM

Agonist wrote: »

There won't be any psychological scars if the person is murdered, hence you want to find if they're alive or dead first.

This whole thread could be seem in the same way, subjective and unquantifiable.

I respect people's right to their own feelings about rape v. murder in terms of if it were to happen to them.

However, I wouldn't like to see rape being considered worse in law, especially when there is the victims' loved ones to think of.

I can't see that happening, and besides, no judge hands down a sentence in isolation. The Eamonn Lilis (sp?) sentence was judged on the individual circumstance, the man's track record, his ages, his actions in the aftermath etc. Rape cases are generally sentenced in the same light - a vicious attack in which a woman is pulled down an alley, beaten and raped by a stranger is not likely to be sentenced in the same manner as a guy convicted of say, date rape, where the lines are more ambiguous.

we'llallhavetea_old · 08-02-2010 11:29PM

OutlawPete wrote: »

You see, I think, no .. I know that murder has a greater impact than rape does.

My best friend from the age of 12 was murdered at 23. The most horrific murder this country has ever seen by the way.

I seen what that has done to his family to this day. Their minds are destroyed with images of what happened to him.

He's gone for good and I'll never see him again.

I only know one girl who was raped and she has taken it in her stride.

It was date rape so maybe that was easy to come to terms with, I don't know.

i'm so sorry to hear that outlawpete

SeanKev · 08-02-2010 11:29PM

SeanKev wrote: »

This, depends.

A 16 year old myself, I'd honestly rather be raped then my life taken.

I've contradicted myself.

If I was given the choice, I'd rather be raped then killed.
However, that doesn't make rape not as severe of a crime.

There is victims so traumatized they want to die.

pookie82 · 08-02-2010 11:30PM

OutlawPete wrote: »

You see, I think, no .. I know that murder has a greater impact than rape does.

My best friend from the age of 12 was murdered at 23. The most horrific murder this country has ever seen by the way.

I seen what that has done to his family to this day. Their minds are destroyed with images of what happened to him.

He's gone for good and I'll never see him again.

I only know one girl who was raped and she has taken it in her stride.

It was date rape so maybe that was easy to come to terms with, I don't know.

But anecdotal evidence is not something to go on here. She happened to take it in her stride and that's great, but not every rape victim does, not even close. I could say I know the family of a murder victim who were greatly scarred and still are but who have moved on with their lives and are coping well. I could tell you that my best friend who was raped since took her own life/cuts herself, suffers from depression and cannot trust anyone. People cope differently. Unless you know a hundred families/victims in the exact same situations and carried out a scientific and impartial study you can't really use that evidence as typical.

08-02-2010 11:34PM

OutlawPete wrote: »

You see, I think, no .. I know that murder has a greater impact than rape does.

My best friend from the age of 12 was murdered at 23. The most horrific murder this country has ever seen by the way.

I seen what that has done to his family to this day. Their minds are destroyed with images of what happened to him.

He's gone for good and I'll never see him again.

I only know one girl who was raped and she has taken it in her stride.

It was date rape so maybe that was easy to come to terms with, I don't know.

Ah, well now we didn't actually touch on this part although I have been thinking about it throughout the thread.

There are varying levels of both crimes, obviously a bullet in the back of the head is going to be better than two hours of violent rape.

And on the other side, two hours of brutal torture before bleeding to death is going to be alot worse than waking up next to someone in bed and not remembering anything from the night before.

I know people who have been raped (violently) and their lives are not worth living. I really would rather be dead than be them.

I also knew someone who was murdered, and although violent, it was quick, and their family have managed to get through it.

Horses for courses I guess

(sorry about your friend btw

)

CK2010 · 08-02-2010 11:35PM

well with murder the result is always the same and of the same severity- the person is dead and thats the result- death.

whereas with rape the result can vary, some people suffer the consequences everyday of their lives and never overcome the trauma, others still do have to live with it and still feel the heartache but they're able to cope because of a number of factors including support networks, counselling, etc. even with these things some women suffer (for want of a better word) more than others

thats why some people dont think its on the same scale as murder. murder always has a devastating outcome with no hope whatsoever, people who have suffered rape have some degree of hope and it can vary from person to person so for some it may be worse than murder but others do and can live happy lives. the same cant be said for murder victims.

OutlawPete · 08-02-2010 11:36PM

pookie82 wrote: »

But anecdotal evidence is not something to go on here. She happened to take it in her stride and that's great, but not every rape victim does, not even close.

Where did I suggest or imply that they would??

Here's the quote again:

OutlawPete wrote: »

It was date rape so maybe that was easier to come to terms with, I don't know.

pookie82 wrote: »

I could say I know the family of a murder victim who were greatly scarred and still are but who have moved on with their lives and are coping well.

Could you now. Do you in fact?? Or are you trying to imply I am lying?

Your right, 'anecdotal evidence' does mean sfa but on forum your have some belief that people are being honest otherwise what is the point in discussing anything?

pookie82 · 08-02-2010 11:40PM

I think you've taken me up wrong Outlaw Pete, at no stage did I imply that I thought you were telling lies. Not sure where you got that from. I was trying to get a point across - whatever your personal experience of seeing people go through these things, that doesn't necessarily mean its universal.... hence my saying that I could tell you about people I know who were raped who fared a lot worse then murder victim families.

At no point did I imply you were lying, I was making the same point Whoopsadaisydoodles did. There's no need to jump down my neck.

we'llallhavetea_old · 08-02-2010 11:47PM

lets just say 25 people were murdered and 25 people were raped.

25 people are DEFINITELY gone, done, no more.

but out of the 25 rape victims, there has to be some people who are glad to be still alive and are able to cope with what has happened.

now obviously there is going to be a number that are NOT going to be able to cope and are going to wish they were put out of their misery.

my point is, i would rather see 25 people raped and have some survive, than 25 people dead and not have a chance.

OutlawPete · 08-02-2010 11:52PM

pookie82 wrote: »

At no point did I imply you were lying, I was making the same point Whoopsadaisydoodles did. There's no need to jump down my neck.

Yes you did, maybe it's a typo then.

Where I got it from is when you said "anecdotal evidence is not something to go here" - and then said..

pookie82 wrote: »

I could tell you that my best friend who was raped since took her own life/cuts herself, suffers from depression and cannot trust anyone.

karma_ · 08-02-2010 11:53PM

Absolutely, murder is the worse of the two, if you think otherwise your just plain wrong. Theres no coming back from murder whereas with rape you will. The human body, no matter what a lot of folk think is an incredibly robust being, capable of enduring the most horrible of hardships and recovering.

CK2010 · 08-02-2010 11:55PM

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

lets just say 25 people were murdered and 25 people were raped.

25 people are DEFINITELY gone, done, no more.

but out of the 25 rape victims, there has to be some people who are glad to be still alive and are able to cope with what has happened.

now obviously there is going to be a number that are NOT going to be able to cope and are going to wish they were put out of their misery.

my point is, i would rather see 25 people raped and have some survive, than 25 people dead and not have a chance.

yeh that was the point i was trying to make, i think you said it better though.
however i think the potential misery of both are of a similar evil on the murderer or rapists part if that makes sense? like i think if someone does either they are on the same scale of evil, however i may see one as being 'worse' to one victim over another.

pookie82 · 08-02-2010 11:56PM

OutlawPete wrote: »

Yes you did, maybe it's a typo then.

Where I got it from is when you said "anecdotal evidence is not something to go here" - and then said..

How on earth does that imply that you're lying???

OutlawPete · 08-02-2010 11:59PM

pookie82 wrote: »

How on earth does that imply that you're lying???

Because it's impossible.

You said you could easily say your friend that was raped took her own life, slit her wrists, can't trust anyone etc etc.

Implying that that is what I had done.

Reread your post.

KeithAFC · 08-02-2010 11:59PM

Murder is worse.

Rape is only bad when a woman gets raped but no one seems to care when its a man.

we'llallhavetea_old · 09-02-2010 12:00AM

CK2010 wrote: »

yeh that was the point i was trying to make, i think you said it better though.
however i think the potential misery of both are of a similar evil on the murderer or rapists part if that makes sense? like i think if someone does either they are on the same scale of evil, however i may see one as being 'worse' to one victim over another.

i know what you mean, i think i would also class the rapists and murderers as equally evil, although, it does depend on the circumstances.

anyone who would do either is a sick and twisted fcuk

pookie82 · 09-02-2010 12:01AM

Oh for god's sake, first of all, you misquoted me above, I didn't mention my "best friend". You have missed my point. I was using an example of the different experiences different people will have which they could say on this thread, which wouldn't necessarily be an accurate reflection of the bigger picture if you compared hundreds of cases.

If I thought you were lying I would have said it outright. I never did. You would be pretty sick to lie about something like that. I was making a point that went over your head.

OutlawPete · 09-02-2010 12:07AM

pookie82 wrote: »

Oh for god's sake, first of all, you misquoted me above, I didn't mention my "best friend"

Ah here, I'm done replying to you.

The quote is below along with the she 'took her own life' and now 'cannot trust anyone'.

A blind man can see what you were implying.

Here's your quote:

pookie82 wrote: »

I could tell you that my best friend who was raped since took her own life/cuts herself, suffers from depression and cannot trust anyone.

pookie82 · 09-02-2010 12:12AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

Ah here, I'm done replying to you.

The quote is below along with the she 'took her own life' and now 'cannot trust anyone'.

A blind man can see what you were implying.

Here's your quote:

Why would I imply it if I thought it? Would I not just come out and say it? There was a slash between took her own life/cannot trust anyone, which implied a number of HYPOTHETICAL outcomes of being raped. Allow me to clarify one last time before going to bed.... The "I" stands not for me personally, but for any number of people who might come on here to share experiences of what they personally know, which may not reflect the greater norm.

I'm not going to continue to hijack the thread by arguing with someone who refuses to admit he took me up wrong. If you still have issues, PM me. Otherwise please don't persist in accusing me of something I never implied.

What's Worse? Rape or Murder?

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