Private workers arent prepared to take a pay cut either!

Helix · 07-02-2010 09:07PM

im specifically talking about the civil service, not the likes of nurses or gardai or teachers

irishh_bob · 07-02-2010 09:07PM

Guell72 wrote: »

A bit of a sweeping generalization there dont you think. The only salaries that are stagnant are the salaries of those who are not good enough at their jobs to command an increase or move to somewhere which will pay more.

your obviously speaking of salaries in the private sector because in the public sector , everyone got salary increases regardless of performance , well 96% anyway

irishh_bob · 07-02-2010 09:08PM

Helix wrote: »

im specifically talking about the civil service, not the likes of nurses or gardai or teachers

not a big enough pool to fish from

Helix · 07-02-2010 09:38PM

irishh_bob wrote: »

not a big enough pool to fish from

i cant talk about the others though, coz ive never worked in them nor do i know enough about them to talk about them without basing it on sweeping generalisations

jahalpin · 07-02-2010 10:01PM

As other posters have mentioned, most private sector workers have taken pay cuts, either directly or indirectly (by means of annual pay increases and bonuses not being paid or increases in pension contributions etc).

What most public sector workers fail to realise is that their employer is the state, the state is in serious financial trouble at the moment and state expenses must be reduced very quickly to prevent the country from going bankrupt and the IMF coming in and taking over (the cuts being proposed at the moment are nothing compared to what the IMF would do!!)

The upwards-only benchmarking that was given to the public sector a few years ago helped the wage bill to increase to its current unsustainable level and , perhaps, another round of benchmarking is necessary to bring the public sector pay back down to a more reasonable level.

As for the people who continuously give out about the "low" wages of grades such as clerical officers etc, consider that most people doing similar jobs in the private would be on, or close to, minimum wage which is around 18k a year with fewer benefits and probably, a far more stressful job.

PoleStar · 08-02-2010 12:44AM

jahalpin wrote: »

As other posters have mentioned, most private sector workers have taken pay cuts, either directly or indirectly (by means of annual pay increases and bonuses not being paid or increases in pension contributions etc).

Other posters have mentioned maybe but for those who prefer facts, it is only 1 in 5 private companies that have cut salaries (a freeze on pay increases or pensions increases is not a cut, its a freeze: the public sector have taken a freeze and a cut).

jahalpin wrote: »

What most public sector workers fail to realise is that their employer is the state, the state is in serious financial trouble at the moment and state expenses must be reduced very quickly to prevent the country from going bankrupt and the IMF coming in and taking over (the cuts being proposed at the moment are nothing compared to what the IMF would do!!)

This is not the point. The point is that private sector workers also dont realise that their employers are also in trouble and need to cut costs. The companies in Dunleer and Dell to take 2 examples tried to cut costs (ie salaries) to no avail and thus everyone lost their job.

People continuously say that public sector workers dont realise that their employers NEED to cut salaries. And yet when private companies try to cut salaries, it seems there are examples of staff refusing and therefore losing their jobs.

soups05 · 08-02-2010 10:48AM

I am reminded of a conversation i had with a friend about 4/5 years ago (during the boom). his factory had just closed and he had gotten a job in the same company as me. His employers at the time had asked him to take a paycut and he refused.

I was shocked and asked him why he refused. he explained that the staff knew that the company was planning to close and the mangement were simply trying to decrease thier wages because any redundancy payout is based on your pay for the last 6/12 months.

so a 10% paycut now would mean a 10% lower redudancy in 6 months when the factory closed. a refusal of the paycut would mean more effort put in to saving the factory to avoid the higher redundancy. in the end it still gave him 6 months to find another job.

so i guess my point is that mangement have always (even in the boom) tried to reduce wages, staff will be less likely to refuse the cut now that there are no jobs out there. any firm planning on closing will go down the pay cut route to save on redundancy or save jobs but how do you tell the differance?

on another point in the ten years i worked in my last job there was 4 years (not in a row) where we had no payrise as the company was not doing well overseas. the other years the max we got was 3%. when i got laid off i was earning just short of €22,000. so sometimes a paycut is not an option.

Guell72 · 08-02-2010 01:19PM

jahalpin wrote: »

As for the people who continuously give out about the "low" wages of grades such as clerical officers etc, consider that most people doing similar jobs in the private would be on, or close to, minimum wage which is around 18k a year with fewer benefits and probably, a far more stressful job.

Anyone earning that low a wage in the private sector is only worth that low wage. They have not made any good decisions about their own career and so are stuck on low salaries. Most probably unskilled and too lazy to develop themselves so that they can command a higher salary.

Its these private sector workers who are the first to cry about anyone else being paid more than them. "Tax the rich", "Tax the public servants". "They all earn too much money".

08-02-2010 01:21PM

Baseless comparisions = pointless thread

I knew a man who wasn't paid for going to work in fact he had to pay his employer when he got there, so he was happy to take a pay cut because it meant work didn't cost him as much

humanji · 08-02-2010 02:04PM

Guell72 wrote: »

Anyone earning that low a wage in the private sector is only worth that low wage. They have not made any good decisions about their own career and so are stuck on low salaries. Most probably unskilled and too lazy to develop themselves so that they can command a higher salary.

Its these private sector workers who are the first to cry about anyone else being paid more than them. "Tax the rich", "Tax the public servants". "They all earn too much money".

So by that logic, Bertie and the boys are worth all that money, since they must be earning it?

homerjay2005 · 08-02-2010 03:28PM

[quote=[Deleted User];64353518]Ah the good work of the Unions strike again.[/QUOTE]

unions are certainly playing their part in the countrys demise. they are part of the reason for over priced wages and higher costs, so companies cannot afford to pay workers anymore.

f&ckers they are.

08-02-2010 03:39PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

unions are certainly playing their part in the countrys demise. they are part of the reason for over priced wages and higher costs, so companies cannot afford to pay workers anymore.

f&ckers they are.

Thats right its all the unions fault!

Those bastards they pushed prices in this country ever higher and higher forcing an increase in wages, damn unions!

Guell72 · 08-02-2010 04:09PM

humanji wrote: »

So by that logic, Bertie and the boys are worth all that money, since they must be earning it?

If you had made the right decisions you could be where they are now. Who know, maybe you would be able to run the country for a while.
But you didnt, and you're not there.

Fact is they made career decisions that has them where they are now, for better or for worse, it was their hard work on their careers that got them there. And it will be how they handle themselves from now on that gets them wherever they are going in future, whether it be back to government or out on the street.

Guell72 · 08-02-2010 04:11PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

unions are certainly playing their part in the countrys demise. they are part of the reason for over priced wages and higher costs, so companies cannot afford to pay workers anymore.

f&ckers they are.

so the unions do their jobs. Whether you or i like it or not they are doing what they are paid to do for the people who they work for.

Im sure if you or I had a union just for ourselves that got us 500k a year we wouldnt be crying.

Liamo08 · 08-02-2010 04:16PM

PoleStar wrote: »

Other posters have mentioned maybe but for those who prefer facts, it is only 1 in 5 private companies that have cut salaries (a freeze on pay increases or pensions increases is not a cut, its a freeze: the public sector have taken a freeze and a cut).

This is not the point. The point is that private sector workers also dont realise that their employers are also in trouble and need to cut costs. The companies in Dunleer and Dell to take 2 examples tried to cut costs (ie salaries) to no avail and thus everyone lost their job.

People continuously say that public sector workers dont realise that their employers NEED to cut salaries. And yet when private companies try to cut salaries, it seems there are examples of staff refusing and therefore losing their jobs.

So let me get this straight your problem is that private sector workers have the option of not accepting pay cuts and instead lose their jobs? Would you be happier if you'd been given the option of taking the pay cut or losing your job?

Guell72 · 08-02-2010 05:10PM

Liamo08 wrote: »

So let me get this straight your problem is that private sector workers have the option of not accepting pay cuts and instead lose their jobs? Would you be happier if you'd been given the option of taking the pay cut or losing your job?

I think the point he was making is that we in the private sector like to cry from the roof tops about how badly off we are, but we arent really. We just pretend we are in the hope that people who chose different career paths than us will suffer more than we do,

kagni · 08-02-2010 05:33PM

PoleStar wrote: »

The same thing happened with Dell in Limerick before they relocated to eastern Europe. In the years coming up to their relocation they tried to negotiate lower costs ie cut pay with the workers. Again, this was rejected by the staff. As a result, they all lost their jobs.

As someone still working in Dell Limerick I can tell you this never happened.
You're just making stuff up.

08-02-2010 05:52PM

I normally enter this sort of thread and sound like an asshole.. Instead I'm just gonna say the first few responses to this thread were brilliant.

PoleStar · 08-02-2010 06:19PM

kagni wrote: »

As someone still working in Dell Limerick I can tell you this never happened.
You're just making stuff up.

I completely apologise with regards to this factual error, I have the company wrong. MY memory has failed me here as to the company as it is about 18 months ago.

And yes my point was to highlight that the public and private sector workers are more similar than they would care to admit to ie that no one wants to cut wages. Private sector workers give out that public sector workers dont want to take pay cuts and yet they also have objected to pay cuts with the result of job losses.

I am one of the many public sector workers who recognises that a pay cut was necessary although unpleasant (despite the fact that my pay cut is going to buy bad debts which are now known to be worth a lot less than their first valuation, to provide money to the banks which will be used to recapitalise rather than to create credit for SMEs thus rescuing the banks but not the economy).

Guell72 · 08-02-2010 09:30PM

PoleStar wrote: »

I completely apologise with regards to this factual error, I have the company wrong. MY memory has failed me here as to the company as it is about 18 months ago.

And yes my point was to highlight that the public and private sector workers are more similar than they would care to admit to ie that no one wants to cut wages. Private sector workers give out that public sector workers dont want to take pay cuts and yet they also have objected to pay cuts with the result of job losses.

I am one of the many public sector workers who recognises that a pay cut was necessary although unpleasant (despite the fact that my pay cut is going to buy bad debts which are now known to be worth a lot less than their first valuation, to provide money to the banks which will be used to recapitalise rather than to create credit for SMEs thus rescuing the banks but not the economy).

Nobody wants their own income cut, so they all blame the other guy and try to get him to take the cut. Human nature.

Lord Nikon · 09-02-2010 06:07AM

Helix wrote: »

€200 with rent allowance medical card and not having to travel compared to commuting and paying rent you mean?

Do you think a medical card will pay the mortgage?

m@cc@ · 09-02-2010 06:11AM

Private workers - paid with money people have option to pay
Public workers - paid with money people have no option to pay

Therefore, people are entitled to p*** and moan about where their public finances are going.

Lord Nikon · 09-02-2010 06:25AM

PoleStar wrote: »

This is not the point. The point is that private sector workers also dont realise that their employers are also in trouble and need to cut costs. The companies in Dunleer and Dell to take 2 examples tried to cut costs (ie salaries) to no avail and thus everyone lost their job.

Cutting costs = maximizing profits

The likes of Dell have a target for profit they like to meet each year, and it usually goes up each year. Cutting jobs/pay cuts is their way of increasing profit.

When was Dell ever in trouble?

Pdfile · 09-02-2010 08:21AM

PoleStar wrote: »

This post was prompted by reading a letter in the Irish Independent yesterday.

It was the usual giving out about how public sector workers wrongly complained about taking pay cuts when another sad example of the reality was in the news just 2 days ago, ie 200 jobs lost in Dunleer.

The irony is, the private sector is exactly the same when it comes to not accepting pay cuts, and this is exactly why those people lost their jobs.

The compnay tried to negotiate pay cuts to save the workers jobs and this was rejected and thus 200 people had to be fired.

The same thing happened with Dell in Limerick before they relocated to eastern Europe. In the years coming up to their relocation they tried to negotiate lower costs ie cut pay with the workers. Again, this was rejected by the staff. As a result, they all lost their jobs.

Now this galls me that the private sector have the cheek to give out about public sector workers who complain about their pay cuts when the same happens in the private sector. IF the people in the private sector were so in tune and aware of the recession, surely these people would say, well yes maybe we should take a pay cut instead of losing all our jobs.

The hypocrisy is pretty irritating.

i thought serious threads where illegal in AH ? ( get moved to Correct forum up Blow apart by useless comments. )

Guell72 · 09-02-2010 01:30PM

m@cc@ wrote: »

Private workers - paid with money people have option to pay
Public workers - paid with money people have no option to pay

Therefore, people are entitled to p*** and moan about where their public finances are going.

And my god do they use it. Less moaning, more work. Just because someone else chose a better career path than you did, doesnt mean you moan and moan and moan and moan. Improve yourself and get a proper career for yourself.

Dravokivich · 09-02-2010 01:41PM

Rat Race...

irishh_bob · 09-02-2010 10:49PM

Guell72 wrote: »

Anyone earning that low a wage in the private sector is only worth that low wage. They have not made any good decisions about their own career and so are stuck on low salaries. Most probably unskilled and too lazy to develop themselves so that they can command a higher salary.

Its these private sector workers who are the first to cry about anyone else being paid more than them. "Tax the rich", "Tax the public servants". "They all earn too much money".

where as if theese unmotivated and lazy people worked in the public sector , they could rely on thier unions ability to extract a cosy across the board ( regardless of individual performance ) pay deal to compensate for any personal shortcomings

m@cc@ · 09-02-2010 11:10PM

Guell72 wrote: »

And my god do they use it. Less moaning, more work. Just because someone else chose a better career path than you did, doesnt mean you moan and moan and moan and moan. Improve yourself and get a proper career for yourself.

Ha ha ha ha, public sector, career.

Guell72 · 09-02-2010 11:14PM

I think its clear by now that the thread title is correct.

m@cc@ · 10-02-2010 12:10AM

Guell72 wrote: »

I think its clear by now that the thread title is correct.

Of course it is if you take it as a sentence on it own.

Private workers arent prepared to take a pay cut either!

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