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The Hazards of Belief

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    It would seem the Egyptian football coach is selecting players based on their faith in Allah rather than playing abilities. That might explain why Mido, wideley regarded as one of Egypt's best players of recent years, can't get a game.
    http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/egyptian-coachs-divine-selection-2016382.html
    Shehata caused a stir this week by suggesting that his team selection is based on a player's religious motivations rather than his actual ability as a footballer, and that "pious behaviour" was his first priority when selecting his team.

    "Without it, we will never select any player regardless of his potential," said Shehata. "I always strive to make sure that those who wear the Egypt jersey are on good terms with God."

    Well, it seems to be working, having beaten Nigeria 3-1 they look set to qualify for the next round. A win against Mozambique would seal it with a game to spare.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭sionnach


    "I always strive to make sure that those who wear the Egypt jersey are on good terms with God."

    Out of curiosity, how does he find out if players are on good terms with God? Does he know Joe Coleman?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,149 ✭✭✭ZorbaTehZ


    vIHdy.png


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Jesus blesses "precision aiming solutions" -- rifle sights to you and me.

    Praise the Lord and pass the ammo belt!
    ABC wrote:
    U.S. Military Weapons Inscribed With Secret 'Jesus' Bible Codes

    By JOSEPH RHEE, TAHMAN BRADLEY and BRIAN ROSS

    Jan. 18, 2010 —

    Coded references to New Testament Bible passages about Jesus Christ are inscribed on high-powered rifle sights provided to the United States military by a Michigan company, an ABC News investigation has found.

    The sights are used by U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and in the training of Iraqi and Afghan soldiers. The maker of the sights, Trijicon, has a $660 million multi-year contract to provide up to 800,000 sights to the Marine Corps, and additional contracts to provide sights to the U.S. Army. U.S. military rules specifically prohibit the proselytizing of any religion in Iraq or Afghanistan and were drawn up in order to prevent criticism that the U.S. was embarked on a religious "Crusade" in its war against al Qaeda and Iraqi insurgents.

    One of the citations on the gun sights, 2COR4:6, is an apparent reference to Second Corinthians 4:6 of the New Testament, which reads: "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." Other references include citations from the books of Revelation, Matthew and John dealing with Jesus as "the light of the world." John 8:12, referred to on the gun sights as JN8:12, reads, "Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

    Trijicon confirmed to ABCNews.com that it adds the biblical codes to the sights sold to the U.S. military. Tom Munson, director of sales and marketing for Trijicon, which is based in Wixom, Michigan, said the inscriptions "have always been there" and said there was nothing wrong or illegal with adding them. Munson said the issue was being raised by a group that is "not Christian." The company has said the practice began under its founder, Glyn Bindon, a devout Christian from South Africa who was killed in a 2003 plane crash.

    'It violates the Constitution'

    The company's vision is described on its Web site: "Guided by our values, we endeavor to have our products used wherever precision aiming solutions are required to protect individual freedom." "We believe that America is great when its people are good," says the Web site. "This goodness has been based on Biblical standards throughout our history, and we will strive to follow those morals."

    Spokespeople for the U.S. Army and the Marine Corps both said their services were unaware of the biblical markings. They said officials were discussing what steps, if any, to take in the wake of the ABCNews.com report. It is not known how many Trijicon sights are currently in use by the U.S. military. The biblical references appear in the same type font and size as the model numbers on the company's Advanced Combat Optical Guides, called the ACOG.

    A photo on a Department of Defense Web site shows Iraqi soldiers being trained by U.S. troops with a rifle equipped with the bible-coded sights. "It's wrong, it violates the Constitution, it violates a number of federal laws," said Michael "Mikey" Weinstein of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, an advocacy group that seeks to preserve the separation of church and state in the military.

    'Firearms of Jesus Christ'

    "It allows the Mujahedeen, the Taliban, al Qaeda and the insurrectionists and jihadists to claim they're being shot by Jesus rifles," he said. Weinstein, an attorney and former Air Force officer, said many members of his group who currently serve in the military have complained about the markings on the sights. He also claims they've told him that commanders have referred to weapons with the sights as "spiritually transformed firearm of Jesus Christ." He said coded biblical inscriptions play into the hands of "those who are calling this a Crusade."

    According to a government contracting watchdog group, fedspending.org, Trijicon had more than $100 million in government contracts in fiscal year 2008. The Michigan company won a $33 million Pentagon contract in July, 2009 for a new machine gun optic, according to Defense Industry Daily. The company's earnings from the U.S. military jumped significantly after 2005, when it won a $660 million long-term contract to supply the Marine Corps with sights.

    "This is probably the best example of violation of the separation of church and state in this country," said Weinstein. "It's literally pushing fundamentalist Christianity at the point of a gun against the people that we're fighting. We're emboldening an enemy."


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    I imagine that there would be a fair few Christians annoyed about that too...
    Maybe they should write WWJD so that you can see it while you're taking aim...
    Though that might reduce the effectiveness of the soldiers by too much, of course for some it may actually increase their kill rates... "WWJD? Send them to heaven/hell! Shoot'em all and let God sort them out."

    also: Hi Guys, I'm back for a while, anything interesting come up while I was not around?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    http://www.umc.org/site/apps/nlnet/content3.aspx?c=lwL4KnN1LtH&b=2072519&ct=7810241

    His two friends died but he survived and he thanked god. I think that he should either give credit where it's due, to the people who dug him out, or they should throw him back under the rubble. Sure if god really has a plan for him he'll save him again right :rolleyes:

    I honestly don't understand how people can walk down a street littered with bodies in a country where tens of thousands of people have just died and thank god because one guy was lucky where his friends weren't. If that's how god makes his perfectly moral decisions I'm more than happy to fall short of his "standard"


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Saw that. If I was an aid worker I'd have covered him back up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Dades wrote: »
    Saw that. If I was an aid worker I'd have covered him back up.

    Aha! The moderator of A&A finally lets slip his secret lust to kill all believers....

    and we have it all on tape!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭cavedave


    Earthquake survivors get solar-powered bibles

    "self-powered and can play the Bible in the jungle, desert or ... even on the moon!"
    In space no one can hear you preach!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭johnmacward


    cavedave wrote: »
    Earthquake survivors get solar-powered bibles

    "self-powered and can play the Bible in the jungle, desert or ... even on the moon!"
    In space no one can hear you preach!

    Last part of that article...
    With tens of thousands of Port-au-Prince residents living outdoors because their homes have collapsed or they fear aftershocks from last week's quake, the audio Bible can bring them "hope and comfort that comes from knowing God has not forgotten them through this tragedy", the group said."

    According to several media reports most of us probably heard, many Haitian's believe the quake was caused BY God, in punishment for past sins, hence the above message is of use to them, they think the head man is pissed and he ain't remembering there goodness.

    What's interesting is the kind of doubling up of religious beliefs. The solar bible crowd believe that God didn't cause it but was there for them at all times in spirit (a bit useless as it turns out), those Haitian's believe that in fact God was definitely there, angered and in turn caused the quake.

    There's gonna be one hell of a fight when each party explains themselves.


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  • Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,252 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    Last part of that article...



    According to several media reports most of us probably heard, many Haitian's believe the quake was caused BY God, in punishment for past sins, hence the above message is of use to them, they think the head man is pissed and he ain't remembering there goodness.

    What's interesting is the kind of doubling up of religious beliefs. The solar bible crowd believe that God didn't cause it but was there for them at all times in spirit (a bit useless as it turns out), those Haitian's believe that in fact God was definitely there, angered and in turn caused the quake.

    There's gonna be one hell of a fight when each party explains themselves.
    God definitely didn't forget them so, but it was more of a god strikes back sort of thing

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭pH


    Oh dear, the hazards of ... atheism ... we're not so smug now!

    Ms Booth QC, sitting as a judge at Inner London Crown Court last Thursday, told Shamso Miah, 25, that she would suspend his sentence because he was "a religious man", and had "not been in trouble before".

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cherie-lets-attacker-go-free-1877351.html

    So religion has its advantages, especially if you're guilty of a crime and being sentenced by Cherie Booth.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    pH wrote: »
    So religion has its advantages, especially if you're guilty of a crime and being sentenced by Cherie Booth.
    The question is, if you were in the dock, would you tell her you were a good catholic just like her!

    (Or would the game have been up when you refused to swear on a bible ;))


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭bogwalrus


    really not sure if this is appropriate for the thread but i must admit i did laugh.


    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100125/twl-dozens-fall-ill-in-holy-water-health-3fd0ae9.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    bogwalrus wrote: »
    really not sure if this is appropriate for the thread but i must admit i did laugh.


    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100125/twl-dozens-fall-ill-in-holy-water-health-3fd0ae9.html
    I was always told that it was a sin to drink holy water.
















    I did anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    bogwalrus wrote: »
    really not sure if this is appropriate for the thread but i must admit i did laugh.


    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100125/twl-dozens-fall-ill-in-holy-water-health-3fd0ae9.html

    Perhaps better off in the Hazards of Belief thread?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    bogwalrus wrote: »
    really not sure if this is appropriate for the thread but i must admit i did laugh.


    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100125/twl-dozens-fall-ill-in-holy-water-health-3fd0ae9.html

    That's not funny. Regardless of their religious beliefs they did nothing to deserve being poisoned, especially the children. Laughing malevolently at others misfortune is despicable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭bogwalrus


    i find humor in the fact you can tell someone the tap water is poisonous, but when they hear it has been blessed it some how is not dangerous to drink.

    besides none of the people were that harmed. just some diorreah and cramps.

    a life's lesson learned the hard way imo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    bogwalrus wrote: »
    i find humor in the fact you can tell someone the tap water is poisonous, but when they hear it has been blessed it some how is not dangerous to drink.

    besides none of the people were that harmed. just some diorreah and cramps.

    a life's lesson learned the hard way imo.

    They drank from a well not a tap and it stated that this was typical. I trust the locals would not expect the well water to be contaminated if they drink from it regularly. Nowhere in the article does it suggest that they believed blessing contaminated water would make it safe to drink.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    bogwalrus wrote: »
    really not sure if this is appropriate for the thread but i must admit i did laugh.
    Russian drinking water is notoriously unsafe and they must be some right tulips to have ignored every ounce of their reason and experience to do whatever they did. St Petersburg's supply is famously infected with Giardia, and it wouldn't be much of a surprise to hear that Amoebic Dysentery is on the prowl way out east in Irkutsk, at least in the smaller lakes and streams (the bone-chillingly cold waters of the stupendous Lake Baikal still seem to be safe to drink).

    Anyhow, neither Giardiasis, nor Amoebic Dysentery, nor any of the other water-borne parasites, are all that amusing for those whom they affect, nor for anybody either downwind or within earshot, so the I've moved this post to the Hazards thread.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭bogwalrus


    It does fit the hazards of belief thread quite well.


    I think i find this amusing for another reason. that i feel i should mention.

    My grandmother for years had problems with her eyes.

    They kept bringing her to the doctors because her eyes would get very infected and all sorts of problems such as conjuctivitis would occur from now and then.

    I think it was last year when my mom was with her and noticed she was applying holy water she got from lourdes on each eye lid before she went to bed.

    You would think my mom would have put 1+1 together but no, she is very holy herself.

    She did however say it to her sister (non believer) in a passing comment and as far as i can remember my aunt made my mom cry as she was going mental as to why she did not stop her etc........

    In summary, religious belief can blind people from the truth and prevent logic from attending the meetings in the decision make parts of the brain.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    This article is textbook Hazards of Belief material. :pac:
    sink wrote: »
    Nowhere in the article does it suggest that they believed blessing contaminated water would make it safe to drink.
    Semantics!
    Many Russians consider any water obtained on Epiphany to be holy. The water is typically bottled for consumption later


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    bogwalrus wrote: »
    They kept bringing her to the doctors because her eyes would get very infected and all sorts of problems such as conjuctivitis would occur from now and then. I think it was last year when my mom was with her and noticed she was applying holy water she got from lourdes on each eye lid before she went to bed.
    My sympathies -- this story reminds me of an elderly relative of mine who was off in India a couple of years back. She visited a catholic nunnery and was invited to drink from the local holy well, which she did, knowing full well that it would be safe because it had been blessed by a local catholic priest (who, was and is defending himself against convincing allegations of money-laundering). Needless to say, my relative caught Amoebic Dysentery and came quite close to dying a number of times over the following six weeks or so.

    It would be nice if people weren't so bloody stupid, especially when others are left to pick up the pieces.

    <grunt>!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    When an atheist has too much time on his hands...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    http://www.4fm.ie/profile.asp?id=1
    (Monday)

    1:37:00 It begins. Best advice is to download mp3 and skip to that time frame as the good folks of 4fm don't seem to allow the option of skipping ahead.

    Points of Note : McGurk accuses PZ description of the Communion Cracker as crap. :D
    An this other bloke, Mullen...well maybe that worth a separate thread. Intellectual vacuum of PZ's argument. Hmm..

    Anyways, it reminded me of something.
    Many people have an intolerance towards gluten and I know a Catholic who, in the not so distant past, was practically chastised for stating that the Holy Communion seemed to be making her feel sick. Luckily, times have changed and people have, in general, become more tolerant since. It does make me often wonder how many ailments was society intolerant towards.

    She's still a devout Catholic btw. :(


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Malty_T wrote: »
    http://www.4fm.ie/profile.asp?id=1

    1:37:00 It begins. Best advice is to download mp3 and skip to that time frame as the good folks of 4fm don't seem to allow the option of skipping ahead.
    What day, Malty? Or do you have a link to the archive? :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Dades wrote: »
    What day, Malty? Or do you have a link to the archive? :)

    Ooops forgot.:o
    Monday.:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26 Buddah


    Newbie here so if I repeat what has been said a zillion times before, forgive me, as should all good christians.(joke)

    The man walking into the lions and being killed, that happened before in Windsor Safari Park a decade or so ago. A man climbed into an enclosure and headed toward the lions reading from a bible. They ate him.

    I'm one of those people who change their religious beliefs at the drop of a hat. I'm an atheist at the moment, don't ask, but I have been involved in Burn Again Christians, but I left them when they attacked women who had had abortions.

    I became a Mormon, briefly, because I was infatuated with one of the missionaries, a gorgeous looking Yank, who was also good fun. That didn't last long either though because at my 2nd class, he (the love of my life) stated that all homosexuals are evil, as are alll Hell's Angels, and will never be taken into heaven.

    Another decade or so before I had Jehovah Witnesses calling on a regular basis. The thing I liked about them was that they never went to war, ever, because of the blood thing, which is a good thing. But just about everything else they believed in was awful. Silly and boring.

    Like most Irish I am a lapsed Catholic, but what can I say that has not already been said a thousand times, and as a mother, no scratch that, as a normal human being, I cannot fathom anyone who would torture children as was done, and covered up by our good bishops, cardinals and popes.

    I'm more buddhist now I suppose, and I try to study and understand it as much as I can. But its a hard religion for Westerners to stick to, with all the distractions we have at our disposal.

    Looking back at this post, I see that I am probably like most people in that if things are going ok I don't give God a thought. If things are going bad and God does not intervene which He bloody well never does, then I'm an atheist again.

    If God does exist I cannot see the point of it. Earthquakes, murders, wars, mayham, and its always the poor and the innocent who suffer. So, no, I don't believe in God.

    At this time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Buddah wrote: »
    Newbie here so if I repeat what has been said a zillion times before, forgive me, as should all good christians.(joke)

    The man walking into the lions and being killed, that happened before in Windsor Safari Park a decade or so ago. A man climbed into an enclosure and headed toward the lions reading from a bible. They ate him.

    I'm one of those people who change their religious beliefs at the drop of a hat. I'm an atheist at the moment, don't ask, but I have been involved in Burn Again Christians, but I left them when they attacked women who had had abortions.

    I became a Mormon, briefly, because I was infatuated with one of the missionaries, a gorgeous looking Yank, who was also good fun. That didn't last long either though because at my 2nd class, he (the love of my life) stated that all homosexuals are evil, as are alll Hell's Angels, and will never be taken into heaven.

    Another decade or so before I had Jehovah Witnesses calling on a regular basis. The thing I liked about them was that they never went to war, ever, because of the blood thing, which is a good thing. But just about everything else they believed in was awful. Silly and boring.

    Like most Irish I am a lapsed Catholic, but what can I say that has not already been said a thousand times, and as a mother, no scratch that, as a normal human being, I cannot fathom anyone who would torture children as was done, and covered up by our good bishops, cardinals and popes.

    I'm more buddhist now I suppose, and I try to study and understand it as much as I can. But its a hard religion for Westerners to stick to, with all the distractions we have at our disposal.

    Looking back at this post, I see that I am probably like most people in that if things are going ok I don't give God a thought. If things are going bad and God does not intervene which He bloody well never does, then I'm an atheist again.

    If God does exist I cannot see the point of it. Earthquakes, murders, wars, mayham, and its always the poor and the innocent who suffer. So, no, I don't believe in God.

    At this time.

    Curious, curious

    God existence is dependent on time.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26 Buddah


    Malty_T wrote: »
    Curious, curious

    God existence is dependent on time.

    No Malty, God's existence is dependent on moods! When I speak of God's existence I am not saying that God exists, because I do not know if He exists, I am merely saying that at certain times, my belief system undergoes changes, and desperately I search around for some other belief system that at that time suits the dilemma I find myself in.

    For instance, the Born Again Christian period came along when I was thinking about walking out of my marriage, giving it up as a huge mistake, and starting afresh, with my child, elsewhere. The Born Again Christians came knocking and they brought (what appeared to be at that time) a sense of happy families, of marriage having to be worked on, of marriage being for life. I wanted that. I thought it would help my marriage, but my husband did not want it. When I say it, I mean the Church interfering because in his mind nothing was wrong. Admittedly me joining the Mormons was a moment of madness at a time when I was lonely and needed contact with someone who thought I was "special". Of course the only thing "special" about me was that I was in a good job and 10% of my earnings would go to them!

    And so it goes on. Buddhis however, which does not believe in a God, but believes that each life is a learning curve, and being reborn as a human being is like winning the lotto because it is the only chance we have of perfecting ourselves, morally, even though it may take eons. But it is entirely up to us to do the work ourselves.

    I do not believe in God, because if I did, I would have to believe that this being was omnipotent, and hence is allowing all the horrors inflicted on
    our world by ourselves, because he chooses not to stop them. He/She, does not give a toss when children die of starvation or lack of clean water. He does not give a toss that some of the evilest people that exist in this world are the wealthiest and the most powerful of people.

    I love the teachings that purported come from that man Jesus. So I love Jesus, but he was a human being. Like Buddha, like Ghandi, good, peace loving, gentle men.


This discussion has been closed.
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