A very unhapppy groom

whatdoicare · 28-01-2010 12:10AM

BlueBranch wrote: »

Would she take it away from me?

to put it the other way I think I'm the 1% of men who have some pretty clear ideas and have thought long and hard about it themselves.

And my current expection is that our relationship will pay long and hard if I go through with this. I'm a very very stubborn man. My parents tell me that as a child they usually let me have my way when I really wanted something because
1) it was rare enough that I really cared hard enough about something to dig in my heels and
2) it wasn't worth the effort to try to force the point

If it didn't matter to me I'd just let it go. But it matters to me. It really matters

So, basically what your saying is: "I'm stubborn and I'll keep insisting on this until I win."
Trust me, you'll never win in this- if she cracks and goes along with this, you may think you're strengthening your relationship and setting clear positions of who's running the relationship but in the end you'll pay for it in every thing you do from now until she divorces you. You'll pay big time.

Probably what will really happen is, this will all come to a head and turn into a massive argument and she'll leave you for someone who isn't so stubborn.

BlueBranch · 28-01-2010 12:13AM

whatdoicare wrote: »

Women have a huge emotional and social attachment to their day, everything from picking flowers to trying on their dress with the bridesmaids to getting ready on the day to finally walking through those doors are (as insane as it sounds) hugely important to her. She's been planning this day since she first me her man. To take all that excitement and planning from her is just the most awful thing you can do.

Really not what I want to hear whatdoicare. That makes me feel like I don't even matter. Like I'm completely unimportant. Is she marrying me or am I just a sort of vaguely-man-shaped prop?

spurious · 28-01-2010 12:15AM

Talk to her about this.

heviballs · 28-01-2010 12:16AM

BlueBranch wrote: »

But why? Why can she not row in with me? Don't my feelings count?

that's my advice,that is someone who was in a similiar situation as you are in now,i gave in and i'm glad i did
this really is something you should have spoken about a long time ago.in my case when i say i 'gave in' i mean i gave in a long time ago and agreed to go with the trad wedding

denhaagenite · 28-01-2010 12:16AM

Rule number one: DO NOT organise anything, until you have both thought and talked about this. I'm not the kind of person who has always dreamed of a white wedding, I hate being the centre of attention and I find weddings a bit boring. After the first two you realise they're all the same, don't you? The only one I ever enjoyed was my sister's and that's because I knew most of the people there, or I was at least likely to meet them again in any case.

I panicked for ages until my fella kind of nudged for us to make a decision on a date. Really panicked, wanted to go on staying engaged forever, or maybe just sign some papers.

Then we started making a list of people for a small wedding, totally omitting people that we don't really know ie school friends and long lost relatives we don't speak to. Then we started talking about and looking at venues, whether we wanted to have it at home or where we live now or somewhere sunny. It's kind of coming together now but if everything doesn't work according to plan, we'll be fine- a marriage isn't built on a wedding.

I found the last wedding we were at quite weird, because the bride and groom spent the whole time walking around making small talk and making sure everyone else was ok. It didn't even seem to me like they knew alot of the people there, which I would detest, but it was a grand night and they enjoyed it (I think).

Communication is paramount here. I completely agree with what you're saying- all of it really, but you might aswell take the ring back if you're going to fight about this. It works both ways. If having a massive wedding shouldn't be the most important thing then why should eloping/ registry be?

whatdoicare · 28-01-2010 12:17AM

BlueBranch wrote: »

Really not what I want to hear whatdoicare. That makes me feel like I don't even matter. Like I'm completely unimportant. Is she marrying me or am I just a sort of vaguely-man-shaped prop?

Well the way you're talking it's like she doesn't matter to you at all, all that seems to matter to you is getting it over and done with as cheaply and privately as possible. She's gonna resent you forever for it, I guarantee it.

scatterpillar · 28-01-2010 12:17AM

The way I see it is: it really is very unfortunate how you have such different wishes for your wedding day.

If one of you gives in, then even if one of you is happy the other will be disappointed; if you agree on some compromise, chances are that both of you will be disappointed.

The way I'd see it would be - why get married at all? Really though? Put it all off indefinitely, just keep going the way you're going ... I mean, should the wedding itself be all that important? If you're both happy enough to make the decision to spend the rest of your lives together, shouldn't that be enough for both of you?

(And yes, I'm well aware that there are tax benefits to getting married, but really, if that's going to be a major deciding factor, then maybe they should just reconsider the whole relationship!)

stargirl.gra · 28-01-2010 12:19AM

denhaagenite wrote: »

Rule number one: DO NOT organise anything, until you have both thought and talked about this. I'm not the kind of person who has always dreamed of a white wedding, I hate being the centre of attention and I find weddings a bit boring. After the first two you realise they're all the same, don't you? The only one I ever enjoyed was my sister's and that's because I knew most of the people there, or I was at least likely to meet them again in any case.

I panicked for ages until my fella kind of nudged for us to make a decision on a date. Really panicked, wanted to go on staying engaged forever, or maybe just sign some papers.

Then we started making a list of people for a small wedding, totally omitting people that we don't really know ie school friends and long lost relatives we don't speak to. Then we started talking about and looking at venues, whether we wanted to have it at home or where we live now or somewhere sunny. It's kind of coming together now but if everything doesn't work according to plan, we'll be fine- a marriage isn't built on a wedding.

I found the last wedding we were at quite weird, because the bride and groom spent the whole time walking around making small talk and making sure everyone else was ok. It didn't even seem to me like they knew alot of the people there, which I would detest, but it was a grand night and they enjoyed it (I think).

Communication is paramount here. I completely agree with what you're saying- all of it really, but you might aswell take the ring back if you're going to fight about this. It works both ways. If having a massive wedding shouldn't be the most important thing then why should eloping/ registry be?

hear hear my sentiments exactly and going down that same road myself!

BlueBranch · 28-01-2010 12:21AM

whatdoicare wrote: »

Well the way you're talking it's like she doesn't matter to you at all, all that seems to matter to you is getting it over and done with as cheaply and privately as possible. She's gonna resent you forever for it, I guarantee it.

And what if I resent her for it? And I'm saying that with no rancour. Seriously. What if I resent her? What then?

Surely this is no way to start.

Tim Robbins · 28-01-2010 12:21AM

BlueBranch wrote: »

I need some advice. My future-wife is keen on getting married in a fairly traditional-style wedding. I couldn't be less enthused. We are diametrically opposed on this issue like nothing else we have ever dealt with. I have tried to think of a compromise and so has she. But I can think of nothing and it making me very unhappy.

...

Somebody - please - tell me something.

You're a man and she's a woman. This is a classic case of mars / venus.
I would sit down with your fiancee and do a five / ten year finance plan using excel based on your salaries, entire finacial commitments, chances of you losing your job, future costs, how many kids you want to have, how many holidays you want, pensions, interest on your morgages etc. Then your arguments should be become a bit clearer and it might be easier to reach a compromise.

I say this because the celtic tiger is over and the next few years are going to be tough for everyone.

iguana · 28-01-2010 12:22AM

whatdoicare wrote: »

Women have a huge emotional and social attachment to their day, everything from picking flowers to trying on their dress with the bridesmaids to getting ready on the day to finally walking through those doors are (as insane as it sounds) hugely important to her.

So do men, it's their wedding day too. Come on - I've just reprimanded Dostoevsky for his sexist crap but then you wheel out the same old sexist crap from the opposite side and back him up.

For my wedding I would love to have eloped, gotten married on a beach somewhere - just the two of us and nobody else. To me it was our marriage and we were the only two people who had any part in it, so we were all I wanted to be there. My husband, however saw it as more of a big traditional day for family and friends. We compromised with a garden party but I can tell you hand on heart that every last frill and fancy that was part of our wedding was at his insistence, I couldn't have cared less about it. To me the only important part of the day was how we felt about each other.

whatdoicare · 28-01-2010 12:24AM

BlueBranch wrote: »

And what if I resent her for it? And I'm saying that with no rancour. Seriously. What if I resent her? What then?

Surely this is no way to start.

Then it's time to go your separate ways. If your ideas matter to you more than your love of her, then why bother at all? Is it really about the wedding or is it really all about winning an argument?

Scoobydoobydoo · 28-01-2010 12:25AM

I was in a similar position to you a few years ago, no interest in the big event, hotel, band, photographer, etc. - and I was the bride. My husband was the one who wanted the works, it just stressed me out, and I can't tell you how bored I was having to try on dresses, shop for bridesmaid stuff etc. My husband is from a small rural family and his mother was hugely excited, invited neighbours etc, when we were trying to keep numbers low.
I'd have liked to elope as well, but I'd definitely have regretted not having my parents there, no matter how supportive they were. A girl I knew at the time had a ceremony in Dublin city centre, then 60 people in a separate room of a restaurant (La Stampa I think). It was great value apparently, and very enjoyable and that was what I'd have liked as a compromise, but my husbands list was huge and each guest HAD to be invited, it drove me crazy.
Anyway, I wonder could you do something like that, with just maybe immediate family and perhaps a few close friends? Maybe have a jazz trio instead of a big band?
It is a whirlwind like you say, and the bigger it is, the more overwhelming, and it's hard to take a breath and take it all in.

I don't get this thing of "it's every girl's dream, you must give in". I was the one who gave in to my husband because he was so into it, but if I could do it again I'd have made him compromise because it was my day as well and I found the whole thing stressful! It's your day as much as hers, and you should work on a solution.

You may reduce costs if you avoid the usual summer wedding thing.
I was at a beautiful wedding once in a small chapel near Christmas. It was dark and mostly lit with candles, probably 90 people, small reception in a suitable country house. Very romantic and magical and different, yet small. It sounds like there's a bit of "if she loved me, she'd elope" & "if he loved me he'd have the big do" thing going on, which bothers me because I think really love, (and marriage) is all about compromise so I think that you both need to give a little and meet each other half way. Write things down, which things are most important for each of you on the day, and which things are most flexible.
How do all of your parents feel about the wedding?

denhaagenite · 28-01-2010 12:25AM

Tim Robbins wrote: »

You're a man and she's a woman. This is a classic case of mars / venus.
I would sit down with your fiancee and do a five / ten year finance plan using excel based on your salaries, entire finacial commitments, chances of you losing your job, future costs, how many kids you want to have, how many holidays you want, pensions, interest on your morgages etc. Then your arguments should be become a bit clearer and it might be easier to reach a compromise.

I say this because the celtic tiger is over and the next few years are going to be tough for everyone.

That's actually a pretty responsible idea. I know a few people who would quite happily have their parents or wedding guests or even the few taxpayers that are left paying off their wedding debts. Absolute wa***rs.

BlueBranch · 28-01-2010 12:29AM

whatdoicare wrote: »

Then it's time to go your separate ways. If your ideas matter to you more than your love of her, then why bother at all? Is it really about the wedding or is it really all about winning an argument?

So by the same logic what you're saying is that her ideas matter more her love of me?

I think I liked the idea from earlier in the thread where we go into councelling and work something out.

Ickle Magoo · 28-01-2010 12:29AM

Would you be willing to do both?

Would you/she compromise on eloping somewhere and getting married, then when you come home have a traditional blessing and do - so you can both have your day?

stargirl.gra · 28-01-2010 12:31AM

I hope you'v discussed lik how many kids u want an other such big decisions coz believe me i no wedding plans are stressful but lik not this stressful surely!

whatdoicare · 28-01-2010 12:31AM

iguana wrote: »

So do men, it's their wedding day too. Come on - I've just reprimanded Dostoevsky for his sexist crap but then you wheel out the same old sexist crap from the opposite side and back him up.

For my wedding I would love to have eloped, gotten married on a beach somewhere - just the two of us and nobody else. To me it was our marriage and we were the only two people who had any part in it, so we were all I wanted to be there. My husband, however saw it as more of a big traditional day for family and friends. We compromised with a garden party but I can tell you hand on heart that every last frill and fancy that was part of our wedding was at his insistence, I couldn't have cared less about it. To me the only important part of the day was how we felt about each other.

I'm not sexist but I am a realist - she has her dream and he has his and noone is willing to compromise, so now it's a case of does he love her enough to back down?
You both compromised in the end and everyone was happy, right? My fella wanted a castle wedding and I didn't want a priest- easy peasy we have a castle wedding with a civil ceremony- beautiful compromise. This guys wants it his way and no other way. It's more like a power struggle than a wedding.

BlueBranch · 28-01-2010 12:32AM

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Would you be willing to do both?

Would you/she compromise on eloping somewhere and getting married, then when you come home have a traditional blessing and do - so you can both have your day?

well if by traditional blessing you mean church wedding then no - because we're both confirmed atheists. So the wedding is a civil wedding and once its done its done.

Is that what you meant?

BlueBranch · 28-01-2010 12:33AM

stargirl.gra wrote: »

I hope you'v discussed lik how many kids u want an other such big decisions coz believe me i no wedding plans are stressful but lik not this stressful surely!

actually we have. The plan is for two.

EDIT: we also have a timeframe on buying a house. We're reasonable people. We've never had an issue where we were so unable to compromise.

Nasty_Girl · 28-01-2010 12:36AM

BlueBranch wrote: »

And what if I resent her for it? And I'm saying that with no rancour. Seriously. What if I resent her? What then?

Surely this is no way to start.

Control - this is the real issue here, not so much the wedding.

We can tell you a million ways to have a traditional wedding, we can tell you how to keep cost back, we can tell you that society doesn't care what way you get married and that having a traditional wedding with all your friends and family around you does not mean you need their approval, that its just one day, that you can have the honeymoon of your dreams.

At the end of the day you are angry because you've told her how you feel and she stuck to what she wants.

Now it has become a "who gets their way" situation and even if one gives the other "their way" it won't be enough because you'll know damn well it's not what either of you want.
If she loved me she'd do this for me and vice versa.

My advice:
Take a break form the wedding talk.
Relax.
Start saving a bit of money,
She may tone down her big ideas,
You might adjust to a wedding of 60 close friends and family.

Give yourselves some time.

stargirl.gra · 28-01-2010 12:36AM

wel then you'v worked out the bigger stuff so basically talk to her about this. put all the feelings here on this thread across to her!

iguana · 28-01-2010 12:38AM

whatdoicare wrote: »

I'm not sexist but I am a realist - she has her dream and he has his and noone is willing to compromise, so now it's a case of does he love her enough to back down?
You both compromised in the end and everyone was happy, right? My fella wanted a castle wedding and I didn't want a priest- easy peasy we have a castle wedding with a civil ceremony- beautiful compromise. This guys wants it his way and no other way. It's more like a power struggle than a wedding.

But you aren't suggesting they compromise, you are suggesting that if he loves her he will give her what she wants because she's a girl and it's her wedding. That is absolutely sexist. You've gone so far as to say that if he doesn't give into her she will resent it forever and their marriage will end in divorce. But if he thinks he will resent her if he gives in he should just not bother getting married because his ideas mean more to him than she does. You are judging him negatively for having set ideas but saying her set ideas must be adhered to solely because she's female.

kippy · 28-01-2010 12:38AM

Life is short.
You'll only have two occasions where you can have all those that mean something to you, family friends, relations etc in the same room at the same time (Even a few who may not mean too much to you.)
One of those occasions is a wedding, the other is your funeral.
Organised correctly it is at worst a cash neutral event (if thats what your main worry is)
Eloping can be done during the honeymoon.......

You dont have to go all bells and whistles and obviously everyone is different.
I was all for the whole romantic eloping thingy but after being persuaded to go the other way (traditional type wedding) I can safely say, the stress (there wasnt that much), the help I got from lots of other people, the day itself, the honeymoon, was all worth it. The only issue was it went too fast.

Obviously yourself and your partner will need to come to some agreement and everyone has their own priorities.

whatdoicare · 28-01-2010 12:40AM

BlueBranch wrote: »

So by the same logic what you're saying is that her ideas matter more her love of me?

I'm saying that (forget about what she's thinking for the minute- I'm asking what you yourself feel.) that if you yourself loved her, I mean really loved her in your heart- you'd be willing to compromise and it wouldn't matter to you how you got married as long as she was happy, right? (that of course goes both ways but she's not here to speak for herself so I can't get an answer from her)

Be really honest with yourself here- what would you feel if she backed down and you got your way? Would you be happy? Would she still look at you the same way? Would there be a shift in the relationship? Will there always be that moment of tension when the adverts for wedding fairs come on the telly or on the radio? Will you always have to back down on future arguments as you know deep down you took that important day from her?

What about future huge decisions like children? How will that discussion go? Are you both on the same page about how many? Discipline? Schools? Religion? What are your plans for the future- do you want the same things? Have you guys not had that discussion even??

whatdoicare · 28-01-2010 12:47AM

iguana wrote: »

But you aren't suggesting they compromise, you are suggesting that if he loves her he will give her what she wants because she's a girl and it's her wedding. That is absolutely sexist. You've gone so far as to say that if he doesn't give into her she will resent it forever and their marriage will end in divorce. But if he thinks he will resent her if he gives in he should just not bother getting married because his ideas mean more to him than she does. You are judging him negatively for having set ideas but saying her set ideas must be adhered to solely because she's female.

Are you telling me it won't happen? That she won't resent him? I didn't say rigidly stick to her dream, I'm trying to get him to see that the wedding isn't important- his wife to be is important and she should be the most important person in the world to him, more important to him than himself. If she isn't, then there's something wrong here. (I can't ask the girl to do the same as she's not here to speak for herself now is she? If she were I'd say the exact same thing to her)

BlueBranch · 28-01-2010 12:51AM

whatdoicare wrote: »

Be really honest with yourself here- what would you feel if she backed down and you got your way? Would you be happy?

I already said I'd feel terrible because I wouldn't believe it was what she wanted

whatdoicare wrote: »

Will there always be that moment of tension when the adverts for wedding fairs come on the telly or on the radio?

everytime there is any mention of weddings on TV now I tense up

whatdoicare wrote: »

Will you always have to back down on future arguments as you know deep down you took that important day from her?

same thing, other way around.

whatdoicare wrote: »

What about future huge decisions like children? How will that discussion go? Are you both on the same page about how many?

are you reading my posts at all? I already said earlier on that we had this discussion and it is already worked out. Two children. Check my earlier posts.

WaltKowalski · 28-01-2010 12:51AM

This isn't a male vs female issue.

I'm a female who wasn't into the whole traditional irish wedding shindig. When we got engaged, my initial plan was to elope.

But then I saw how excited my parents were about the whole thing and my dad told me how much he was looking forward to walking me down the aisle.
And I couldn't disappoint them by not doing it - not after they've spent their whole lives doing their absolute best for me and by me.

The day will be as much about them as it will be about us as a couple.
I'm not so selfish as to deny them that when I know it means so much to them.

fuelinjection · 28-01-2010 12:53AM

It's only your first wedding so do the big day out wedding option.

Then with the next few wives you can fly to Las Vegas or The North Pole and get married. Sorted.

whatdoicare · 28-01-2010 12:55AM

BlueBranch wrote: »

.

are you reading my posts at all? I already said earlier on that we had this discussion and it is already worked out. Two children. Check my earlier posts.

I was still typing when that came up, apologies.

So, why exactly are you both so unwilling to compromise on this? What's really going on?

A very unhapppy groom

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