A very unhapppy groom

BlueBranch

I need some advice. My future-wife is keen on getting married in a fairly traditional-style wedding. I couldn't be less enthused. We are diametrically opposed on this issue like nothing else we have ever dealt with. I have tried to think of a compromise and so has she. But I can think of nothing and it making me very unhappy.

My outlook on weddings is as follows: A couple at the beginning of their married life choose to spend a sum of money that could knock a year or two off a mortgage. They will use this money to throw a party that will cost them a great deal of time and effort and stress to organise. Their family and close friends will be pulled into this stress and effort towards the end of the process. On the day itself the guests will probably be put to a not-inconsiderable amount of expense and inconvenience (they may even have to use up some holidays to be there). And to top it off some people who aren't invited will feel hard-done-by and offended that they weren't invited. My future-wife is hell-for-leather that this is the way she wants to proceed. I genuinely don't get it - who wins in this scenario? (Other than the hotel I mean.) Personally I've never been at all pushed about going to other people's weddings. I do it because it is expected. Sometimes its a laugh. But I'm not pushed. And I've turned down invitations when I felt it was sufficiently inconvenient for me.

So to be clear - I don't like much weddings in general, I don't think they are romantic and I certainly don't think they give any sort of bang-for-buck.

I on the other hand would much prefer to elope. I think eloping as romantic as hell. You get to sneak away just to two of you and have a lovely time together. And when you elope you can spend that same money on yourselves (if you can even spend that much). And there'd be very little effort or stress since that kind of money buys a lot of service when it is being spent on just two people.

Now I should mention that my future wife doesn't even particularly see this as "our day". In the sense that she realises that the day will be spent running around after everybody else and that it'll pass in a blur. But she is bound and determined that shes going to have this day. And that is the thing that gets me. I am crystal-clear on why I don't want to do this. However my future-wife cannot seem to explain to me what it is that she hopes to get out of this. Believe me I have asked her and I'm still mystified as what it is that she hopes to get out of this. If I knew that then maybe I could start to move towards accepting this. The closest she comes to a solid reason is that she wants to sit everybody she knows down and feed them at the same time. And I just don't see why this is something that she needs to do. Wedding food is usually fairly average at best. Why would I want to feed this very-average food to my friends and family and not even get a proper talk with most of them?

From her point of view its as though having a wedding is fixed point and any logic needs to work back from there. And if there is no logic to it then it doesn't matter because it is just this thing that is going to happen and thats that.

And it isn't like we're talking about a round of drinks here. I mean if she said "okay - instead we're going to take all of that money and we're going go to NYC (or wherever) and we're going to spend it all on ourselves by living high on the hog for a week" then I'd be happier about it. But where is the point in spending that much money on some carvery-food for everybody we know (some of whom haven't even seen us in years).

I want to compromise. I do. But so far I haven't heard anything that sounds like a good reason to spend a whole lot of our money on something I really don't want to do (and even if it wasn't incredibly expensive I wouldn't be keen on this). Now in replying to this I'm afraid that somebody is going to say something like "can you not just take a hit for the team". And if I felt that there was any sort of good reason to do so then perhaps I could. But what I suspect is going to happen instead is that this is going to go ahead, we'll spend all of that money, I'll be so genuinely unhappy through the entire process that I'll suck all of the good out of it for her, and that afterwards I'll resent her for making me do it her way, and we'll be a lot poorer. And yes in a marriage you have to compromise. But there is compromise and there is selling yourself out for far too small of a price. This is not a happy state of affairs and I need for this to end better than I forsee it will end at the moment.

Somebody - please - tell me something.

Cadiz

BlueBranch wrote: »

I want to compromise. I do.

Do you?

This treatise is not the work of someone set to compromise, IMHO. I'm not saying you should, but what you've written here suggests you're digging in rather than looking for a compromise.

thebiglad

My goodness where to start - are you looking for advice or someone to talk to!

What do you hope to achieve, we talk you into going with the 'white wedding' or give you the best excuse ever.

I also hate weddings, detest being taken to one but, my own I absolutely had the best day. You do get to spend time with your friends and family and plan the wedding for 2 days and you get the following day with them too (or a more select group anyhow)

If you elope you risk the wrath of the family - can you live with that?

Wedding food does not have to be average, take some time in choosing your hotel - if it is average then what on earth are you paying for.

When you say you are willing to spend the wedding money but to treat yourself and your wife to a super holiday, why not treat her to the wedding she wants - if it is important to her then it should be for you too.

Your comment that you want to compromise but if she insists on the wedding you are going to sulk all day is not great. As previous poster asked, are you sure you want to compromise.

As I have posted here before, arranging a wedding is not that difficult, it is certainly not difficult for your guests, they just turn up and most people love a wedding and chance to have a party is a bonus.

You really need to get over it and see the wedding as a fun event which will make your wife to be extremely happy. If you cannot get over this one (potentially one of the biggest days of your lives together) then I am sorry but I don't hold out too much hope for day to day decisions.

My advice, if she is insisting on the 'white wedding' get on board - if you deny her, then she is going to resent you (and I think with slightly more justification).

Sorry if you do not like these comments - it is nothing personal -but you asked for opinions and here you go.

stargirl.gra

This sounds to me like male versus females. How many times in your relationship have you hit a wall where you feel you are being completely logical yet your other half certainly has an opinion but cannot explain why they feel a certain way.
My fiance is a very logical man an I must say sometimes to his own detriment and he may think he's seeing things clearly but it is actually blurring his vision. It makes sense to logically say the sentence "And yes in a marriage you have to compromise" but you obviously don't feel that way. This is because it's actually more emotional for you then you may realise.
Search your emotions, do you really think that eloping is your only stance?

My situation is similar to yours I think. I'm a non drinker so hate Irish weddings which are a massive knees up in my opinion. I don't dance. I don't like sing songs, in fact I plain don't like weddings. I'm getting married this november but I'm doing it my way. I had to come up with a way of sharing my day with select people but still keeping it away from the whole invite a bunch of ppl you no more have interest in or have interest in you for the cost of 20 or 30 grand, when yeah, I could put that on my mortgage. So I thought long and hard about my unique ideas for my wedding but I guess one thing was for certain at the beginning of this. I do want to celebrate my relationship and my life moving forward with my family and friends.

What exactly do you really want. Start at the beginning with your thought process. Do you want to get married? Who do you want to share it with? Where do you want to do it? If def abroad, would your fiancee have the traditional thing abroad or on the other hand is there ANYWHERE in Ireland you'd like to do it.

Sorry for this long winded message but hopefully food for thought!

adamski8

So sounds to me that alot of your gripe is with wasting money on guests dinners/drink etc and not any other part of the wedding process.

Would a good comprimise not then be to have a traditional type wedding but only bring close family and friends no more than 15-20 people.

Thats the only compromise I can see: you have to go through with the wedding formalities but you save with not having alot of guests.

Another plus is its intimate and romantic :rolleyes: well maybe try convince her this is the case!

djk1000

I agree completely with your sentiments, I have no desire for a big wedding at all. In fact, it is also my idea of hell.

But, if the woman I love has always dreamed of a traditional wedding, there is no way that I would deny her that. I would suck it up and make damn sure that I gave 100%.

After the wedding is over, rather than resent her, I'd always be happy that I could do something this important for the woman I love.

My advice, you can't win this, strap yourself in and enjoy the ride. In my limited experience of women and weddings (sorry to seem sexist!) it is not the time to be seeking compromise.

antiskeptic

BlueBranch wrote: »

I need some advice.

(One of) my own particular failings is control. I don't like being controlled and I don't like it what things don't go the way I'd like them to go. Part of the solution to my problem (and it is my problem) is recognising that I have a problem.

(One of) your failings appear to be money-meaness. The word "money" or references to money litter your post like the confetti now banned at most weddings.

You are getting married and marriage is a significant event. A very significant event. It might be that the significance of it has been somewhat dulled by the fact you've lived with your betrothed for years (I didn't read all your post to know whether or whether not). But no matter - you are still making a significant statement to each other and to the world (the guests at your reception being representitive of "the world" to whom you are declaring this good news)

So spend freely in the announcing - and enjoy it. By all means get some bang per buck. But let bang-per-buck be the secondary consideration rather than the primary one. If bang=per=buck it's the primary one then the consideration that should be the primary one is being relegated to secondary one. Which brings into question why you (not you plural) are getting married.

Intothesea

Hello there. I don't think there's an objective opinion on a wedding cost-to-value ratio that will help your issue here. I can understand the seemingly illogical need to gather everyone together and pay through the nose for one fleeting day, though I think what you're describing is a case of no common ground, and no ability to appreciate the other's point of view. On top of this things are tilted against you on the basis that a woman's expectations for her wedding day should be well met (culturally). The explanation that your fiancee is putting up is probably not doing her real motivations any justice either. If she could say that this is her inherent idea of what 'marrying the man you love' should be like, would it be more acceptable to you?

I think you should alert your fiancee to the seriousness of your feelings about this; how you feel sidelined and ignored and how you want to work out a deal you can both live with, rather than get lost in a one-sided plan. For this you have to decide (keeping good faith and with empathy for your partner) on your absolute limitations for the big issues: X budget, Y social efforts you'd be willing to make. Once she realises a true desire to compromise on your part, she'll most likely be happy to move towards parity.

Anyway, hope you can see your way to sorting it all out. The best of luck

Dostoevsky

BlueBranch wrote: »

I need some advice. My future-wife is keen on getting married in a fairly traditional-style wedding. I couldn't be less enthused. We are diametrically opposed on this issue like nothing else we have ever dealt with. I have tried to think of a compromise and so has she. But I can think of nothing and it making me very unhappy.

My outlook on weddings is as follows: A couple at the beginning of their married life choose to spend a sum of money that could knock a year or two off a mortgage. They will use this money to throw a party that will cost them a great deal of time and effort and stress to organise. Their family and close friends will be pulled into this stress and effort towards the end of the process. On the day itself the guests will probably be put to a not-inconsiderable amount of expense and inconvenience (they may even have to use up some holidays to be there). And to top it off some people who aren't invited will feel hard-done-by and offended that they weren't invited. My future-wife is hell-for-leather that this is the way she wants to proceed. I genuinely don't get it - who wins in this scenario? (Other than the hotel I mean.) Personally I've never been at all pushed about going to other people's weddings. I do it because it is expected. Sometimes its a laugh. But I'm not pushed. And I've turned down invitations when I felt it was sufficiently inconvenient for me.

So to be clear - I don't like much weddings in general, I don't think they are romantic and I certainly don't think they give any sort of bang-for-buck.

I on the other hand would much prefer to elope. I think eloping as romantic as hell. You get to sneak away just to two of you and have a lovely time together. And when you elope you can spend that same money on yourselves (if you can even spend that much). And there'd be very little effort or stress since that kind of money buys a lot of service when it is being spent on just two people.

Now I should mention that my future wife doesn't even particularly see this as "our day". In the sense that she realises that the day will be spent running around after everybody else and that it'll pass in a blur. But she is bound and determined that shes going to have this day. And that is the thing that gets me. I am crystal-clear on why I don't want to do this. However my future-wife cannot seem to explain to me what it is that she hopes to get out of this. Believe me I have asked her and I'm still mystified as what it is that she hopes to get out of this. If I knew that then maybe I could start to move towards accepting this. The closest she comes to a solid reason is that she wants to sit everybody she knows down and feed them at the same time. And I just don't see why this is something that she needs to do. Wedding food is usually fairly average at best. Why would I want to feed this very-average food to my friends and family and not even get a proper talk with most of them?

From her point of view its as though having a wedding is fixed point and any logic needs to work back from there. And if there is no logic to it then it doesn't matter because it is just this thing that is going to happen and thats that.

And it isn't like we're talking about a round of drinks here. I mean if she said "okay - instead we're going to take all of that money and we're going go to NYC (or wherever) and we're going to spend it all on ourselves by living high on the hog for a week" then I'd be happier about it. But where is the point in spending that much money on some carvery-food for everybody we know (some of whom haven't even seen us in years).
.... But what I suspect is going to happen instead is that this is going to go ahead, we'll spend all of that money, I'll be so genuinely unhappy through the entire process that I'll suck all of the good out of it for her, and that afterwards I'll resent her for making me do it her way, and we'll be a lot poorer. And yes in a marriage you have to compromise. But there is compromise and there is selling yourself out for far too small of a price. This is not a happy state of affairs and I need for this to end better than I forsee it will end at the moment.

Somebody - please - tell me something.

Oh. My. God. I could have written every word myself. Scary, truly scary. I've disengaged. Her father is paying for everything. It's not my problem, nor my day. It is he, and not I, who is facilitating this day of pressure. I'll make an appearance. I'll smile, while €15,000 is being spent in this ostentatious and obscene display by members of the human race who cry when they cannot get their way and cry when they can get their way. The emotional blackmail which the average bride-to-be engages in defies belief, and the most petulant child would not get away with it. Weddings are the ultimate act of female selfishness. The month-long honeymoon away from everybody will be mine, and paid for by me.

"Traditional" = boring. Really, let's not beat around the bush: you've been to one wedding, and you've been to them all. Only in the delusion of the female mind is the same old rigmarole "different". Yes, how surprising that the bride looks the best ever, that this is the best wedding ever, that everything about it is the best.... While the rational male stands in the background ready to vomit with the sight of so much repetition. The average "traditional" wedding is so boring, so utterly devoid of creativity, of spirit, of difference. These "traditional wedding" Irish women must be among the most repressed in all of Europe.

My wedding, in contrast, would be a small, civic one with a small private party in a garden somewhere, or a nice romantic one with, perhaps, 30 close friends in Italy. It would not, under any circumstances, be designed to placate my mother, her views, or the familial politics which marks almost every wedding invitation process in Ireland.

I do not know what else to say, but you most certainly are not alone. Not by any means. Take your heart out of your wedding day, disengage emotionally, and think of the marriage for the rest of your life to the woman you love. Women think this is all about a wedding and find it hugely difficult to see it as fundamentally different to a marriage. They can see every potential offence in the world, except the obvious. Utterly selfish.

scudzilla

I got married in Sept, we couldn't be arsed with all the crap and expense of a large wedding in Ireland so we went to Greece.

We had a huge cruise ship to get married on, all paperwork done for us, all flowers (and there was loads) , Wine on the boat, 5 course gala dinner with entertainment and wine, Horse and carriage from boat to reception.

All this for 4,000Euro, best thing we ever did, and we had about 30 guests who flew over for a week's holiday, we stayed an extra week for some alone Honeymoon time

iguana

I'm sure there will be a way to compromise if you both really want to. How about you each sit down and list the 5 basic things that are really important to you about the wedding. Ie, she really wants to feed all your friends and family, you really want to avoid spending above €X. Then work out how you can have a day which combines the most important aspects for both of you.

If treating everyone to a meal is important to her then must it be in a hotel? What about going to a restaurant instead? Or renting a function room/interesting building and having a big buffet? Or if you or your family have a large enough garden, getting a big gazebo and having a garden party? How would both of you feel about that kind of compromise?

This day is for both of you and just because you don't want the big traditional wedding it doesn't make your views invalid.

You need to set aside time to talk about this seriously and come to a compromise, maybe a series of times as you might not get it all hammered out in one go. But as it stands you each have a dream wedding in mind which are polar opposites. Each of you need to understand that you wont get your own way in all aspects. So figure out which points are the most important to each of you and find out how to incorporate these points into one plan.

lynski

eloping ftw - that is my opinion and happily my husbands too! we used what we would have spent on a wedding on a 2 mth holiday in oz, including a honeymoon on a private yacht. ahh the memories
but really here are 2 ideas:
Pick a really top notch venue - 4* or 5* so you get fantastic food - BUT
make sure it is small and preferably out of the way then you have a good reason to have only who you want there. brooklodge is ideal

Have your ceremony and again a great meal out during the day for your beloved, mas and das, brothers and sisters if your families are small enough and a large party that night. many really good restaurants have small private rooms or mezzanines - eden in temple bar for example.
* sorry should have added that these are 2 of the most memorable weddings i have been to and the most important part was that the couple got people to take part - friends drove, did the flowers, dj, video camera, cake - all done by friends for at most cost or as gifts.
While acknowledging that 'the wedding day' is largely a female fantasy thing, I'd also go with the opinion that if you can't agree or at least compromise on this then you should consider some pre-marriage counselling - before you start paying deposits.

good luck

BTW some of the other posters *polite cough* wow ever heard the word misogyny?

antiskeptic

Dostoevsky wrote:

I'll smile, while €15,000 is being spent in this ostentatious and obscene display by members of the human race who cry..

Hmmm.

That's what our wedding cost (excl. honeymoon). £8500 to give our 100 or so guests a v.nice meal, not too many flowers, some (some would say, necessary, invites), a church, a dress (little aftersale value, a grey suit etc (practical after wedding use), a few dresses to make the bridesmaids day too, a modestly priced car and somewhere nice to spend our wedding nice. Plus the inevitable odds-and-sods.

A 15 grand wedding might buy you a little class (if your real careful). It doesn't buy ostentatious.

Dostoevsky

antiskeptic wrote: »

Hmmm.

That's what our wedding cost (excl. honeymoon). £8500 to give our 100 or so guests a v.nice meal, not too many flowers, some (some would say, necessary, invites), a church, a dress (little aftersale value, a grey suit etc (practical after wedding use), a few dresses to make the bridesmaids day too, a modestly priced car and somewhere nice to spend our wedding nice. Plus the inevitable odds-and-sods.

A 15 grand wedding might buy you a little class (if your real careful). It doesn't buy ostentatious.

Ah, but a "little class" for me would be having some great friends and close family around me in an intimate venue without feeling the need to engage in the huge politics where you have to invite A, B, and C for political reasons, where you have to have a church wedding even though you never - with the exception of Christmas Day - go near a church, where the day is all about stress and worry rather than enjoyment and relaxation. 'A little bit of class' would be where people who don't feel comfortable in big crowds do not have to be fake and pretend to like it just to facilitate some outdated fantasy held by less mature females, and encouraged by mothers and aunts who should know much better but instead bring their own little rivalries, false pride and prejudices into the mix.

Sincerity and honesty would be the hallmarks of class for me. Style and false pride are different issues.

PS: €15,000 would pay for a private education for a child for at least 3 years. It could also pay for a huge number of music or language classes, both things which could really add to his/her life.

BlueBranch

Cadiz wrote: »

Do you?

This treatise is not the work of someone set to compromise, IMHO. I'm not saying you should, but what you've written here suggests you're digging in rather than looking for a compromise.

You're right. I'm dug in. I'm trying to find a way to dig myself out. And I just don't see one

thebiglad wrote: »

If you elope you risk the wrath of the family - can you live with that?

My own family are aware of the situation and are fine with it. Supportive in fact. I've been surprised by their support. And I am prepared to live with her family's wrath (although I doubt it would be very great).

thebiglad wrote: »

When you say you are willing to spend the wedding money but to treat yourself and your wife to a super holiday, why not treat her to the wedding she wants - if it is important to her then it should be for you too.

It isn't simply the momey. I really don't want a traditional wedding. Shouldn't that be important to her?

thebiglad wrote: »

Your comment that you want to compromise but if she insists on the wedding you are going to sulk all day is not great.

No. It isn't great. Not at all. But I'm really not happy. And I wear my heart on my sleeve. If I'm not happy it is usually pretty obvious.

thebiglad wrote: »

As previous poster asked, are you sure you want to compromise.

I do. But we're so diametrically opposed on this one. I'm stymied.

thebiglad wrote: »

You really need to get over it and see the wedding as a fun event which will make your wife to be extremely happy. If you cannot get over this one (potentially one of the biggest days of your lives together) then I am sorry but I don't hold out too much hope for day to day decisions.

day-to-day we get along. And we've been together five years now. And we've muddled through a lot.

thebiglad wrote: »

My advice, if she is insisting on the 'white wedding' get on board - if you deny her, then she is going to resent you (and I think with slightly more justification).

Why? Why is she more justified and I'm not? I ask as a serious question.
The thing is that I'm not indifferent on this issue. I'm probably not your ordinary groom who'll go along to get along. I have very strong ideas about my wedding day. I know what I want. And it isn't this.

thebiglad wrote: »

Sorry if you do not like these comments - it is nothing personal -but you asked for opinions and here you go.

no compaints thebiglad - I asked. I wouldn't have asked if I didn't expect to get an answer and sometimes the answer isn't what you'd like to hear.

stargirl.gra wrote: »

"And yes in a marriage you have to compromise" but you obviously don't feel that way. This is because it's actually more emotional for you then you may realise.

oh no - I totally realise that I am very emotionally involved in this.

stargirl.gra wrote: »

Search your emotions, do you really think that eloping is your only stance?

I go around and around on this. If I love her couldn't I just do this for her? But if she loved me couldn't she do it for me? But if I love her then couldn't I do it for her. And so on. And so forth. I've spent some hours staring into space on this one.

stargirl.gra wrote: »

What exactly do you really want. Start at the beginning with your thought process.

I want us to run away together

stargirl.gra wrote: »

Do you want to get married?

yes. If she said she wanted to go down to the registry office in the morning I'd ring work and tell them not to expect me anytime soon.

stargirl.gra wrote: »

Who do you want to share it with?

Nobody but her.

I'm not sure if I've made this clear but this is about more than simply the money. Far more. I don't like the idea of seeking some kind of social approval. Who cares what they think? I don't care if I have their approval or not. In fact if they disapprove then it would only confirm that we must have very different world views. If they haven't understood that much about me they probably aren't anybody I care to be that friendly with.

adamski8 wrote: »

So sounds to me that alot of your gripe is with wasting money on guests dinners/drink etc and not any other part of the wedding process.

Would a good comprimise not then be to have a traditional type wedding but only bring close family and friends no more than 15-20 people.

I thought that was on the cards for a while but the last time we talked it seems that has gone away. Or something. I'm unclear what happened there myself.

antiskeptic wrote: »

You are getting married and marriage is a significant event. A very significant event. It might be that the significance of it has been somewhat dulled by the fact you've lived with your betrothed for years (I didn't read all your post to know whether or whether not).

No - in a way that is my problem. I don't want to have my wedding-day made so....ordinary by having such dull, ordinary wedding. Lets run away together and **** them all if they don't understand or don't want to try. It offends me to the core that not only am I going to have this ordinary wedding but I'm going to pay so much to place myself in bondage to normality.

Dostoevsky

lynski wrote: »

BTW some of the other posters *polite cough* wow ever heard the word misogyny?

Yes, it would be a male version of misandry, the latter being in this case a very close relation of selfishness.

argosy2006

why not have a small family and close friends weddings,, the more people you leave out the less offended they would be,,,so leave out lots of people that way they dont feel singled out at been left out, so how can they be offended,

whatdoicare

The real question here is: "Would you really take the dream of a certain type of wedding away from your loved one?"

If she has always dreamed of this day (and lets face it 99%* of all girls dream of their big day) and has it in her mind in a certain way- it's just a waste of time trying to force her to change her dream. That and she'll resent you for doing that to her (and we all know you'll pay for that in the long run).

If all that's bothering you is that you'll have to fork out for it and spend time with your family and her family for one day- would you not think that it'd be worth it all to see your lovely wife-to-be happy as larry in her big dress, in front of the people she wanted there, in the place that she wanted, living her dream?? My hubby agrees that that would be worth any stress and money to see that!

Why not compromise and pick the honeymoon of a lifetime that has always been your dream - I'm sure she'll agree to that if she gets her day?






*random percentage for added effect.

Alliandre

To be honest, if she has her heart set on a traditional wedding I don't think you'll ever get her to agree to elope. I want a sort-of traditional wedding, in that I want our family and friends to be there to celebrate the day with us and I wouldn't be too keen on the idea of eloping. Perhaps you could come to some sort of compromise in the form of cutting the numbers significantly? I can understand that you don't necessarily want people there you haven't had contact with in a while, or someone you had to invite in order not offend someone else etc. Is there any way you could talk to her about only having the 20/30 most important people there? Maybe you could go abroad and make it a little more personal. Scudzillas cruise wedding actually sounds quite nice and intimate.

iguana

whatdoicare wrote: »

The real question here is: "Would you really take the dream of a certain type of wedding away from your loved one?"

Equally the question could be "Would she really take the dream of a certain type of wedding away from her loved one?"

BlueBranch

regarding Dostoevsky comments about all weddings being similar. In the main I would agree. I can think of two exceptions. But only two. And one of them is touch-and-go. The rest all blur together.

Intothesea comments are quite helpful

the one saving grace in all this is that we're both confirmed athiests so at least this won't be in a church (thank god ;-) )

scudzilla's idea of going away could definitely work for me. In fact my ideal wedding is on the bridge of a cruise-ship bound for somewhere far away. But that has been vetoed.

lynski - it may come to counselling yet. In fact...as I think about it that is starting to sound like an idea. In fact perhaps that is the best idea yet to impress upon her how deeply unhappy I am with the current state of affairs while simultanously impressing her how committed I am to her. lynski - I think I may owe you a pint.

iguana

Dostoevsky, just because you have issues with your fiancee I'm not going to allow you to tar all women with the same brush. Anymore posts expressing your sentiments in the sexist, inflammatory way you have done in your first post will be deleted. And I'll be handing out infractions/bans. The same goes for anyone else who may be about to post similar sentiments.

stargirl.gra

we'rnot having church wedding as both are non believers that was also our first agreeance too( ha prob not a word but who cares) but i think u need discuss this with her. maybe even show her this thread!

heviballs

BlueBranch wrote: »

So to be clear - I don't like much weddings in general, I don't think they are romantic and I certainly don't think they give any sort of bang-for-buck.


Somebody - please - tell me something.

i think you're wrong regarding the financial side of this,i married a year ago and broke even.
With the price decreases you can actually make money,once you don't do a stupid wedding list you'll get cash from 90%,we told our closest friends and family to please give us cash
For example the Marriot Druids Glen hotel are doing a deal for 9k for 120 guests,i know you'll have to pay for extras but that is great value.
I was the same as yourself,but in the end if the women you love wants the trad wedding imo you should just row in with it,

Nasty_Girl

I'm confused.
One minute you're saying

I have very strong ideas about my wedding day. I know what I want. And it isn't this.

Then you enhance this with

I want us to run away together

But then you say

If she said she wanted to go down to the registry office in the morning I'd ring work and tell them not to expect me anytime soon.

That's not running away together.


What if she wanted to go to the registry office, wear a pretty dress and then have a party in your local?

What's the real issue here?

Lets run away together and **** them all if they don't understand or don't want to try.

**** who??
Who doesn't understand???

BlueBranch

whatdoicare wrote: »

The real question here is: "Would you really take the dream of a certain type of wedding away from your loved one?"

Would she take it away from me?

whatdoicare wrote: »

If she has always dreamed of this day (and lets face it 99%* of all girls dream of their big day) and has it in her mind in a certain way- it's just a waste of time trying to force her to change her dream. That and she'll resent you for doing that to her (and we all know you'll pay for that in the long run).

to put it the other way I think I'm the 1% of men who have some pretty clear ideas and have thought long and hard about it themselves.

And my current expection is that our relationship will pay long and hard if I go through with this. I'm a very very stubborn man. My parents tell me that as a child they usually let me have my way when I really wanted something because
1) it was rare enough that I really cared hard enough about something to dig in my heels and
2) it wasn't worth the effort to try to force the point

If it didn't matter to me I'd just let it go. But it matters to me. It really matters

BlueBranch

heviballs wrote: »

in the end if the women you love wants the trad wedding imo you should just row in with it,

But why? Why can she not row in with me? Don't my feelings count?

whatdoicare

iguana wrote: »

Equally the question could be "Would she really take the dream of a certain type of wedding away from her loved one?"

Hmmmmm.... I don't know of any fellas that have been dreaming of their big day since childhood - TBH his idea of eloping sounds a bit like a cop out, ie: he doesn't want a wedding really, just a kind of extra special holiday- the no fuss, no muss wedding.
If it was me and my hubby was insisting on the eloping thing- I'd be in the mind of, well, why bother with a dress or vows- we'll just go do a civil ceremony in our jeans- sure why bother getting married at all, we'll just carry on as we are, (after which, being a woman full of hormones, my thinking would turn to...) Is he ashamed of me or something that he's insisting on hiding our wedding from family? Actually, why am I even entertaining his idea???...after about a month I'd probably have a new boyfriend.

Women have a huge emotional and social attachment to their day, everything from picking flowers to trying on their dress with the bridesmaids to getting ready on the day to finally walking through those doors are (as insane as it sounds) hugely important to her. She's been planning this day since she first me her man. To take all that excitement and planning from her is just the most awful thing you can do.

BlueBranch

Nasty_Girl my main thing is I just don't want a traditional wedding with people hanging out of me expecting that I should confirm to them that I want their approval.

Nasty_Girl wrote: »

What if she wanted to go to the registry office, wear a pretty dress and then have a party in your local?

that wouldn't be my ideal but that sounds like it'd be okayish.

Nasty_Girl

BlueBranch wrote: »

But why? Why can she not row in with me? Don't my feelings count?

If she told you in the morning she would get married on a boat wherever you wanted just to please you how would you feel?

BlueBranch

Nasty_Girl wrote: »

If she told you in the morning she would get married on a boat wherever you wanted just to please you how would you feel?

racked with guilt because I wouldn't believe thats what she really wants.

thats why I'm asking for somebody to give me a reason to help me get behind this that somehow helps me feel that I haven't sold my own ideas short.

yeah - I know - not too much to ask for eh?

whatdoicare

BlueBranch wrote: »

Would she take it away from me?


to put it the other way I think I'm the 1% of men who have some pretty clear ideas and have thought long and hard about it themselves.

And my current expection is that our relationship will pay long and hard if I go through with this. I'm a very very stubborn man. My parents tell me that as a child they usually let me have my way when I really wanted something because
1) it was rare enough that I really cared hard enough about something to dig in my heels and
2) it wasn't worth the effort to try to force the point

If it didn't matter to me I'd just let it go. But it matters to me. It really matters

So, basically what your saying is: "I'm stubborn and I'll keep insisting on this until I win."
Trust me, you'll never win in this- if she cracks and goes along with this, you may think you're strengthening your relationship and setting clear positions of who's running the relationship but in the end you'll pay for it in every thing you do from now until she divorces you. You'll pay big time.

Probably what will really happen is, this will all come to a head and turn into a massive argument and she'll leave you for someone who isn't so stubborn.

BlueBranch

whatdoicare wrote: »

Women have a huge emotional and social attachment to their day, everything from picking flowers to trying on their dress with the bridesmaids to getting ready on the day to finally walking through those doors are (as insane as it sounds) hugely important to her. She's been planning this day since she first me her man. To take all that excitement and planning from her is just the most awful thing you can do.

Really not what I want to hear whatdoicare. That makes me feel like I don't even matter. Like I'm completely unimportant. Is she marrying me or am I just a sort of vaguely-man-shaped prop?

spurious

Talk to her about this.

heviballs

BlueBranch wrote: »

But why? Why can she not row in with me? Don't my feelings count?

that's my advice,that is someone who was in a similiar situation as you are in now,i gave in and i'm glad i did
this really is something you should have spoken about a long time ago.in my case when i say i 'gave in' i mean i gave in a long time ago and agreed to go with the trad wedding

denhaagenite

Rule number one: DO NOT organise anything, until you have both thought and talked about this. I'm not the kind of person who has always dreamed of a white wedding, I hate being the centre of attention and I find weddings a bit boring. After the first two you realise they're all the same, don't you? The only one I ever enjoyed was my sister's and that's because I knew most of the people there, or I was at least likely to meet them again in any case.

I panicked for ages until my fella kind of nudged for us to make a decision on a date. Really panicked, wanted to go on staying engaged forever, or maybe just sign some papers.

Then we started making a list of people for a small wedding, totally omitting people that we don't really know ie school friends and long lost relatives we don't speak to. Then we started talking about and looking at venues, whether we wanted to have it at home or where we live now or somewhere sunny. It's kind of coming together now but if everything doesn't work according to plan, we'll be fine- a marriage isn't built on a wedding.

I found the last wedding we were at quite weird, because the bride and groom spent the whole time walking around making small talk and making sure everyone else was ok. It didn't even seem to me like they knew alot of the people there, which I would detest, but it was a grand night and they enjoyed it (I think).

Communication is paramount here. I completely agree with what you're saying- all of it really, but you might aswell take the ring back if you're going to fight about this. It works both ways. If having a massive wedding shouldn't be the most important thing then why should eloping/ registry be?

whatdoicare

BlueBranch wrote: »

Really not what I want to hear whatdoicare. That makes me feel like I don't even matter. Like I'm completely unimportant. Is she marrying me or am I just a sort of vaguely-man-shaped prop?

Well the way you're talking it's like she doesn't matter to you at all, all that seems to matter to you is getting it over and done with as cheaply and privately as possible. She's gonna resent you forever for it, I guarantee it.

scatterpillar

The way I see it is: it really is very unfortunate how you have such different wishes for your wedding day.

If one of you gives in, then even if one of you is happy the other will be disappointed; if you agree on some compromise, chances are that both of you will be disappointed.

The way I'd see it would be - why get married at all? Really though? Put it all off indefinitely, just keep going the way you're going ... I mean, should the wedding itself be all that important? If you're both happy enough to make the decision to spend the rest of your lives together, shouldn't that be enough for both of you?

(And yes, I'm well aware that there are tax benefits to getting married, but really, if that's going to be a major deciding factor, then maybe they should just reconsider the whole relationship!)

stargirl.gra

denhaagenite wrote: »

Rule number one: DO NOT organise anything, until you have both thought and talked about this. I'm not the kind of person who has always dreamed of a white wedding, I hate being the centre of attention and I find weddings a bit boring. After the first two you realise they're all the same, don't you? The only one I ever enjoyed was my sister's and that's because I knew most of the people there, or I was at least likely to meet them again in any case.

I panicked for ages until my fella kind of nudged for us to make a decision on a date. Really panicked, wanted to go on staying engaged forever, or maybe just sign some papers.

Then we started making a list of people for a small wedding, totally omitting people that we don't really know ie school friends and long lost relatives we don't speak to. Then we started talking about and looking at venues, whether we wanted to have it at home or where we live now or somewhere sunny. It's kind of coming together now but if everything doesn't work according to plan, we'll be fine- a marriage isn't built on a wedding.

I found the last wedding we were at quite weird, because the bride and groom spent the whole time walking around making small talk and making sure everyone else was ok. It didn't even seem to me like they knew alot of the people there, which I would detest, but it was a grand night and they enjoyed it (I think).

Communication is paramount here. I completely agree with what you're saying- all of it really, but you might aswell take the ring back if you're going to fight about this. It works both ways. If having a massive wedding shouldn't be the most important thing then why should eloping/ registry be?

hear hear my sentiments exactly and going down that same road myself!

BlueBranch

whatdoicare wrote: »

Well the way you're talking it's like she doesn't matter to you at all, all that seems to matter to you is getting it over and done with as cheaply and privately as possible. She's gonna resent you forever for it, I guarantee it.

And what if I resent her for it? And I'm saying that with no rancour. Seriously. What if I resent her? What then?

Surely this is no way to start.

Tim Robbins

BlueBranch wrote: »

I need some advice. My future-wife is keen on getting married in a fairly traditional-style wedding. I couldn't be less enthused. We are diametrically opposed on this issue like nothing else we have ever dealt with. I have tried to think of a compromise and so has she. But I can think of nothing and it making me very unhappy.

...

Somebody - please - tell me something.

You're a man and she's a woman. This is a classic case of mars / venus.
I would sit down with your fiancee and do a five / ten year finance plan using excel based on your salaries, entire finacial commitments, chances of you losing your job, future costs, how many kids you want to have, how many holidays you want, pensions, interest on your morgages etc. Then your arguments should be become a bit clearer and it might be easier to reach a compromise.

I say this because the celtic tiger is over and the next few years are going to be tough for everyone.

iguana

whatdoicare wrote: »

Women have a huge emotional and social attachment to their day, everything from picking flowers to trying on their dress with the bridesmaids to getting ready on the day to finally walking through those doors are (as insane as it sounds) hugely important to her.

So do men, it's their wedding day too. Come on - I've just reprimanded Dostoevsky for his sexist crap but then you wheel out the same old sexist crap from the opposite side and back him up.

For my wedding I would love to have eloped, gotten married on a beach somewhere - just the two of us and nobody else. To me it was our marriage and we were the only two people who had any part in it, so we were all I wanted to be there. My husband, however saw it as more of a big traditional day for family and friends. We compromised with a garden party but I can tell you hand on heart that every last frill and fancy that was part of our wedding was at his insistence, I couldn't have cared less about it. To me the only important part of the day was how we felt about each other.

whatdoicare

BlueBranch wrote: »

And what if I resent her for it? And I'm saying that with no rancour. Seriously. What if I resent her? What then?

Surely this is no way to start.

Then it's time to go your separate ways. If your ideas matter to you more than your love of her, then why bother at all? Is it really about the wedding or is it really all about winning an argument?

Scoobydoobydoo

I was in a similar position to you a few years ago, no interest in the big event, hotel, band, photographer, etc. - and I was the bride. My husband was the one who wanted the works, it just stressed me out, and I can't tell you how bored I was having to try on dresses, shop for bridesmaid stuff etc. My husband is from a small rural family and his mother was hugely excited, invited neighbours etc, when we were trying to keep numbers low.
I'd have liked to elope as well, but I'd definitely have regretted not having my parents there, no matter how supportive they were. A girl I knew at the time had a ceremony in Dublin city centre, then 60 people in a separate room of a restaurant (La Stampa I think). It was great value apparently, and very enjoyable and that was what I'd have liked as a compromise, but my husbands list was huge and each guest HAD to be invited, it drove me crazy.
Anyway, I wonder could you do something like that, with just maybe immediate family and perhaps a few close friends? Maybe have a jazz trio instead of a big band?
It is a whirlwind like you say, and the bigger it is, the more overwhelming, and it's hard to take a breath and take it all in.

I don't get this thing of "it's every girl's dream, you must give in". I was the one who gave in to my husband because he was so into it, but if I could do it again I'd have made him compromise because it was my day as well and I found the whole thing stressful! It's your day as much as hers, and you should work on a solution.

You may reduce costs if you avoid the usual summer wedding thing.
I was at a beautiful wedding once in a small chapel near Christmas. It was dark and mostly lit with candles, probably 90 people, small reception in a suitable country house. Very romantic and magical and different, yet small. It sounds like there's a bit of "if she loved me, she'd elope" & "if he loved me he'd have the big do" thing going on, which bothers me because I think really love, (and marriage) is all about compromise so I think that you both need to give a little and meet each other half way. Write things down, which things are most important for each of you on the day, and which things are most flexible.
How do all of your parents feel about the wedding?

denhaagenite

Tim Robbins wrote: »

You're a man and she's a woman. This is a classic case of mars / venus.
I would sit down with your fiancee and do a five / ten year finance plan using excel based on your salaries, entire finacial commitments, chances of you losing your job, future costs, how many kids you want to have, how many holidays you want, pensions, interest on your morgages etc. Then your arguments should be become a bit clearer and it might be easier to reach a compromise.

I say this because the celtic tiger is over and the next few years are going to be tough for everyone.

That's actually a pretty responsible idea. I know a few people who would quite happily have their parents or wedding guests or even the few taxpayers that are left paying off their wedding debts. Absolute wa***rs.

BlueBranch

whatdoicare wrote: »

Then it's time to go your separate ways. If your ideas matter to you more than your love of her, then why bother at all? Is it really about the wedding or is it really all about winning an argument?

So by the same logic what you're saying is that her ideas matter more her love of me?

I think I liked the idea from earlier in the thread where we go into councelling and work something out.

Ickle Magoo

Would you be willing to do both?

Would you/she compromise on eloping somewhere and getting married, then when you come home have a traditional blessing and do - so you can both have your day?

stargirl.gra

I hope you'v discussed lik how many kids u want an other such big decisions coz believe me i no wedding plans are stressful but lik not this stressful surely!

whatdoicare

iguana wrote: »

So do men, it's their wedding day too. Come on - I've just reprimanded Dostoevsky for his sexist crap but then you wheel out the same old sexist crap from the opposite side and back him up.

For my wedding I would love to have eloped, gotten married on a beach somewhere - just the two of us and nobody else. To me it was our marriage and we were the only two people who had any part in it, so we were all I wanted to be there. My husband, however saw it as more of a big traditional day for family and friends. We compromised with a garden party but I can tell you hand on heart that every last frill and fancy that was part of our wedding was at his insistence, I couldn't have cared less about it. To me the only important part of the day was how we felt about each other.

I'm not sexist but I am a realist - she has her dream and he has his and noone is willing to compromise, so now it's a case of does he love her enough to back down?
You both compromised in the end and everyone was happy, right? My fella wanted a castle wedding and I didn't want a priest- easy peasy we have a castle wedding with a civil ceremony- beautiful compromise. This guys wants it his way and no other way. It's more like a power struggle than a wedding.

BlueBranch

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Would you be willing to do both?

Would you/she compromise on eloping somewhere and getting married, then when you come home have a traditional blessing and do - so you can both have your day?

well if by traditional blessing you mean church wedding then no - because we're both confirmed atheists. So the wedding is a civil wedding and once its done its done.

Is that what you meant?

BlueBranch

stargirl.gra wrote: »

I hope you'v discussed lik how many kids u want an other such big decisions coz believe me i no wedding plans are stressful but lik not this stressful surely!

actually we have. The plan is for two.

EDIT: we also have a timeframe on buying a house. We're reasonable people. We've never had an issue where we were so unable to compromise.