Whats the beef with 7/8 string guitars?

I have to admit I'm one of those people who think "Ah Jaysus". I've never really thought about it before but it's probably down to stereotyping. I associate 7 string guitars with music that I do not like. As a result I tend to assume that anyone with a 7 string has bought it specifically to play Korn or Trivium and that kind of stuff. I'm more of a melodic type of musician so to me this music is pointless along with the 7 string guitar.
The only other kind of musician I would associate the 7 string with would be those kind of virtuoso guys that you see on youtube playing incredibly tricky experimental stuff. Again, I can't stand this type of music so it puts me off.
I'm sure there are plenty of other types of musicians out there using 7 strings and I'm just not familiar with them and thats just down to my own ignorance.
I would imagine many people are in the same boat as me with regards having these preconceptions.
I would make the same assumptions about someone who owns a BC rich.
I'm not saying it's right but it is how it is.

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Guitarists especially can be very traditional. I find often enough that people sneer at the mention of a guitar that isn't a Strat or Les Paul.

That's because many of them are designed specifically with the kind of instrumental guitar music in mind that only appeals to other guitarists specifically into that kind of music.

Seziertisch wrote: »

Except for sounding like a Strat or a Les Paul. The real strength of those instruments is their flexibility, you just have to look at the number of bands in different genres using them.

How many of those bands have really explored the other possibilities though?

El Pr0n wrote: »

How many of those bands have really explored the other possibilities though?

I can't imagine making a Jaguar work for hard rock/metal, but I can imagine a Les Paul or Strat being up to it. No doubt a Jaguar excels at being a Jaguar, and if you want that specific sound a Les Paul or Strat won't get you there. Similarly for some (other) genres it would be woefully unsuited whereas a Strat or Les Paul could be made to work.

ball ox wrote: »

Probably not, but in fairness, when you look at one of these things
it doesn't inspire much confidence either
I'd take a 7 string over that!

Steve Vai is the father of the 7-string in rock music.

Never a 7 or 8 string. Oddly enough I wouldn't mind a 12 string guitar, that shimmering tone can sound great at times.

Seziertisch wrote: »

Similarly for some (other) genres it would be woefully unsuited whereas a Strat or Les Paul could be made to work.

I don't get why a Jaguar couldn't be made to work either. A guitar with two pickups and a hardtail is hardly very flexible, it's just taken for granted that the Les Paul is the 'best' or whatever.

And at the mention of Jaguars, we're still only talking about Gibson Fender and Ibanez here. What about the thousands of other guitar makers making original designs that never even get a look in?

Seziertisch wrote: »

Well, (as far as I know) all 7-string guitars come with really high output pickups, which make them completely unsuitable for many genres. There are no pickups which aim for a reproduction of vintage PAF or P-90 tone or whatever in 7-string format.

Don't think Karl was talking about 7 strings there.

El Pr0n wrote: »

I don't get why a Jaguar couldn't be made to work either. A guitar with two pickups and a hardtail is hardly very flexible, it's just taken for granted that the Les Paul is the 'best' or whatever.

And at the mention of Jaguars, we're still only talking about Gibson Fender and Ibanez here. What about the thousands of other guitar makers making original designs that never even get a look in?

Nothing sounds like a Les Paul, it is one of the sounds of rock music. It excels at riffs and for soloing. From Jimmy Page to Joey Santiago, from Slash to Steve Malkmus, from Neil Young to punk, it does what it does better than anything else out there. It has a unique personality, and is great in its limitedness. The problem with the vast majority of newer designs is that A. they are not particularly attractive (most classic guitar shapes were designed by professional designers and as such are works of art in their form) and B. they try to do too much (I know a number of PRS owners who have slowly gravitated back to "more limited" Strats and Les Pauls because they think these guitars do what they do better)

As for the Jaguar (and the Jazzmaster), the reason that Johnny Marr plays them almost exclusively in Modest Mouse is that they are in his opinion unsuited to playing blues licks and thus take his playing in another direction. Again, two guitar designs with great personality, not trying to be everything to everyone, but rather excelling at being themselves.

That said, the same is true of 7/8-string instruments, though they are probably even more specific than any of the above. Les Paul (a jazz musician) designed the Les Paul and it went on to become a hard/indie/alternative rock staple. Steve Vai designed the 7-string and it went on to become a nu-metal/metal staple. As such it doesn't seem to have the same crossover appeal.

Seziertisch wrote: »

Nothing sounds like a Les Paul, it is one of the sounds of rock music. It excels at riffs and for soloing. From Jimmy Page to Joey Santiago, from Slash to Steve Malkmus, from Neil Young to punk, it does what it does better than anything else out there. It has a unique personality, and is great in its limitedness. The problem with the vast majority of newer designs is that A. they are not particularly attractive (most classic guitar shapes were designed by professional designers and as such are works of art in their form) and B. they try to do too much (I know a number of PRS owners who have slowly gravitated back to "more limited" Strats and Les Pauls because they think these guitars do what they do better)

As for the Jaguar (and the Jazzmaster), the reason that Johnny Marr plays them almost exclusively in Modest Mouse is that they are in his opinion unsuited to playing blues licks and thus take his playing in another direction. Again, two guitar designs with great personality, not trying to be everything to everyone, but rather excelling at being themselves.

But then you look at the Jag and JM, and they're used for surf, noise, jazz, punk, rock, country. Solos and rhythm, heavily effected and clean, etc. Joe Pass, Nels Cline, Thurston Moore, Lee Ranaldo, Ronald Jones, Steven Drozd, Tom Verlaine, Thom Yorke, Jeff Tweedy, etc etc. When I think Les Paul, I think country jazz and metal, but mostly I think rawk.

I don't understand how you can go from saying how flexible to saying how limited they are while still supporting the same argument.

El Pr0n wrote: »

But then you look at the Jag and JM, and they're used for surf, noise, jazz, punk, rock, country. Solos and rhythm, heavily effected and clean, etc. Joe Pass, Nels Cline, Thurston Moore, Lee Ranaldo, Ronald Jones, Steven Drozd, Tom Verlaine, Thom Yorke, Jeff Tweedy, etc etc. When I think Les Paul, I think country jazz and metal, but mostly I think rawk.

I don't understand how you can go from saying how flexible to saying how limited they are while still supporting the same argument.

With the exception of Joe Pass (for whom the Jazzmaster was one of his guitars but is not the instrument he is most associated with, considering he has his own signature hollowbody), all of the other artists you mentioned are largely coming from the same place. I mean, Nels Cline has definitely borrowed heavily from Tom Verlaine, Ronald Jones is a pretty big Sonic Youth fan by the sounds of it, Jeff Tweedy's lead work is heavily indebted to Neil Young (playing a Les Paul, but anyway) and up until recently he was using old tremolo equipped SGs (a derivative of the Les Paul) almost exclusively, Steven Drozd and Thom Yorke are also very much in the alt rock tradition.

Looking at the Les Paul, you can go from Les Paul himself to Jimmy Page to Joey Santiago (a student of the Sonic Youth school). Three very different styles of music using the same instrument. Is that flexibility? Yes I think so. Is a Les Paul capable of sounding like anything other than a Les Paul? No? Is what a Les Paul sounds like limited to just one specific style? Doesn't seem so. Is a Jaguar/Jazzmaster capable of sounding like anything other than a Jazzmaster? Well, it is kind of related to the Strat. Is it limited to one specific style? To a certain extent it would seem so. Is this a bad thing? Not necessarily depending on where you are standing.

With the exception of surf and country (though if you look at the origins of a lot of country guitar playing Les Paul figures quite heavily) from your list, the Les Paul can be used for all those other styles. And you can add every kind of rock from glam to metal to the list when the Les Paul is included.