Begging soon to be a crime with a prison sentence

faceman · 26-01-2010 03:10PM #1

From today's news:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/retailers-welcome-impending-crackdown-on-begging-443520.html

Breakingnews.ie wrote:

Retailers welcome impending crackdown on begging

The retail community is welcoming proposed new legislation aimed at cracking down on aggressive begging.

According to reports, the Government is planning on bringing in the new legislation which will see fines and prison sentences being imposed on people who ask for money in certain places.

It will see gardaí being given new powers including arrest without warrant to tell beggars to move on if they are found to be near business premises, ATMs or vending machines.

Homeless charities have condemned the proposal however, saying that the Government efforts would be better spent tackling the causes of poverty.

The last time this was proposed, it was shot down as it was deemed to be unconstitional.

Not look for anecdotal comments on random beggars that you meet, but what are your views on the treatment of beggars should they be charged?

Personally I think its a sad day if the government has decided that the best way to deal with begging is fines (lol) or arrests.

What do you think?

Sea Sharp · 26-01-2010 03:13PM

Too ****ing right. There should be no beggars trying to guilt-trip me when I'm having a smoke.

Nodin · 26-01-2010 03:13PM

faceman wrote: »

What do you think?

I'm delighted that crimes such as pickpocketing, shop lifting, hand bag snatching, mugging, burgalry, heroin trafficking etc have dropped to such low levels that the menace of the beggar can finally be tackled.

Celly Smunt · 26-01-2010 03:13PM

bout time,i'm sick of going into work and having junkies who have money playing the sympathy card looking for free food and then messing the place up when you say no.

ALSO if one more homeless chap shakes my hand and gives me his life story before asking for change i'll...cry.

AnonoBoy · 26-01-2010 03:15PM

Can we make not replying to my texts promptly a crime too? I've been waiting hours today to hear back from a lad I'm buying some stuff off.

4zn76tysfajdxp · 26-01-2010 03:15PM

Should they really be criminalising the down-and-outs of society? I've never been harassed by the homeless so I can't see how this can be of any benefit.

*Looks at replies above*

Oh ****, I'm in for it now...

Celly Smunt · 26-01-2010 03:16PM

Belle Defeated Software wrote: »

Should they really be criminalising the down-and-outs of society? I've never been harassed by the homeless so I can't see how this can be of any benefit.

then you're lucky.

26-01-2010 03:16PM

Your looking at this negatively.

If we were to look at this in a positive light we could say its for two reasons.

Reason 1: Is temporary housing for the homeless, Gardai find homeless people on the street begging and give them a bed and food for a night or week or whatever.

Reason 2: ( Reason 2 needs some background. At the moment in Ireland not many industries are prospering but one area that is prospering is robberies. I should know, im now able to spend more time at home posting on boards as a result. Well thats the background finsihed)

So reason 2 is that when these homeless people go to prison they will meet many of my associates who will be able to direct them or even aid them in getting into the more lucrative fields of drugs and robberies.

So with those things happening the government is housing and upskilling our homeless so they can provide for themselves.

Bravo Fianna Fail Bravo

Cookie_Monster · 26-01-2010 03:17PM

Belle Defeated Software wrote: »

Should they really be criminalising the down-and-outs of society? I've never been harassed by the homeless so I can't see how this can be of any benefit.

*Looks at replies above*

Oh ****, I'm in for it now...

Its a new approach, start with the easiest target and gradually work up to the bigger offenders

powerfade · 26-01-2010 03:17PM

They will be hit with a 400eur fine and if they cannot make this payment(most probable as they are ....beggars) they will ye put in prison for a month which will cost the taxpayer 10,000euro. Still think this is a great idea....

Alot easier just to tell the scumbag to go fcuk themselves or else give a euro to those that you feel are genuinely needful.

Guy:Incognito · 26-01-2010 03:19PM

Nodin wrote: »

I'm delighted that crimes such as pickpocketing, shop lifting, hand bag snatching, mugging, burgalry, heroin trafficking etc have dropped to such low levels that the menace of the beggar can finally be tackled.

Well unfortunately some of the peopel that are begging around towns and cities double or triple job to include a good few on your list. I see very few people who are actually begging because they just want a roof over their heads in Dublin.

pickarooney · 26-01-2010 03:22PM

'Aggressive begging' just like aggressive anything, should be a criminal offence, yes

It will see gardaí being given new powers including arrest without warrant to tell beggars to move on if they are found to be near business premises, ATMs or vending machines.

What does that mean? It's not even English.

NothingMan · 26-01-2010 03:24PM

they will ye put in prison for a month which will cost the taxpayer 10,000euro.

Curious to see where you got that figure from. 1 month for €10,000 euro seems maniacally high.

I would like to see beggars moved along swiftly, or at least taken into a dark alley and shown the business end of a womping stick but fines & prison sentences are a waste of time. Truth be told I almost welcome an Irish beggar, at least they're our own. I still won't give them sh1t, but at least thery're out own.

brianthebard · 26-01-2010 03:24PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Its a new approach, start with the easiest target and gradually work up to the bigger offenders

The government just wants to make sure everyone is doing their bit to help the deficit.

bonerm · 26-01-2010 03:25PM

Couldn't care less about regular beggers so long as only they're just sitting there looking for a handout and not bothering anyone .

However, it's the pushy junkies I run into at nightlinks (always male, always early 20s) who should be locked up. They think just cos I've had a few that they can get up into my space and run a guilttrip on me. They really don't know when to back down and when "no" means "no". I even had to chase one into temple bar and clock him to the ground for pickpocketing me once. Don't need that nonsence after a few pints! :mad:

faceman · 26-01-2010 03:26PM

how do you define agressive begging? I doubt the retailers give a toss either way. Im sure no matter form of begging is taking place "near" their premises (how do you define what is near a retail premises?" they dont want it. should we as a society be allowing the retailers define the moral/ethical standard when it comes to dealing with begging?

What about retailers who stuff junk mail through my letter box? What about retailers who try nab you as you walk by their store. Why cant we fine them? That feels like a form of begging too.

opinion guy · 26-01-2010 03:27PM

aggressive begging

So the government have finally decided to do something about the charity mugger problem (since they are the only ones I've ever seen aggressively begging). Brilliant its about time. If this is not aimed at charity muggers then I think its appalling.

faceman · 26-01-2010 03:28PM

bonerm wrote: »

Couldn't care less about regular beggers so long as only they're just sitting there looking for a handout and not bothering anyone .

However, it's the pushy junkies I run into at nightlinks (always male, always early 20s) who should be locked up. They think just cos I've had a few that they can get up into my space and run a guilttrip on me. They really don't know when to back down and when "no" means "no". I even had to chase one into temple bar and clock him to the ground for pickpocketing me once. Don't need that nonsence after a few pints! :mad:

how will that address the problem tho? Its not going to help them deal with their addictions, its just pushing it under the carpet. Im not saying you should be subjected to that form of begging either, it feels threatening when it happens. But a fine/jail is not the solution

CountingCrows · 26-01-2010 03:28PM

There really is a market for dirt cheap replica 2euro coins which would be great for giving to beggars. Ideally they'd have "F*ck off and leave me alone" inscribed on them.

bonerm · 26-01-2010 03:32PM

faceman wrote: »

how will that address the problem tho? Its not going to help them deal with their addictions, its just pushing it under the carpet. Im not saying you should be subjected to that form of begging either, it feels threatening when it happens. But a fine/jail is not the solution

I wasn't feeling threatened at all. Quite the opposite for that fella by the end of our encounter. I just think that no matter what your circumstances you can't just go around taking what's not yours. I'm not saying jail is the solution either but better there than out on the streets harassing people in a a way that crosses the line imho.

Maybe giving them a free pummeling is the solution. I never saw that particular chancer again fwiw.

aDeener · 26-01-2010 03:36PM

Nodin wrote: »

I'm delighted that crimes such as pickpocketing, shop lifting, hand bag snatching, mugging, burgalry, heroin trafficking etc have dropped to such low levels that the menace of the beggar can finally be tackled.

This law is obviously being brought in to get to the root of the problem

Biggins · 26-01-2010 03:36PM

I don't think there will be (nor should be) an all out war to target every street beggar but however the more aggressive ones, do have to be dealed with and I've no problem with that.

The persistent ones that are in your face at bank machines, looking over your shoulder, following you down the street and just pester you (till you finally give in) are too much.
Those up to now have had their way far too much when it comes to rights within the law and how they can be exploited.

The introduction of laws that help protect fellow citizens from this type of harassment, is a good thing.
There is a difference between seeing a beggar on the street sitting down begging and one that is standing up, in your face and won't go away upon you giving them an answer "yes" or "no" - and even then, maybe not going away!
The former at least gives you peaceful choice, the latter gives you unwarrented grief.
Any law that helps me to go about my daily workload without further unwarrented grief being shoved in my face, I welcome.

Lets not forget the difference between "passive begging" and "aggressive begging".
I have absolutely no problem with the first, I do with the second.
End of story.

phasers · 26-01-2010 03:38PM

The way the gardai operate I doubt much will change unless a begger is being agressive so I welcome it

kmick · 26-01-2010 03:42PM

Another one the Gardai wont enforce.
Pointless waste of time.

hooradiation · 26-01-2010 03:48PM

aDeener wrote: »

This law is obviously being brought in to get to the root of the problem

A law that stops people from being poor?

marvelous.

Why didn't we think of it sooner.

Biggins · 26-01-2010 03:52PM

kmick wrote: »

Another one the Gardai wont enforce.
Pointless waste of time.

...in your opinion.
I'd still rather it be on the law books than be unlegislated for and thus further opportunity for harassing the public exists.
Now at least there is further choice with more strength in the law.

The Gardi on the street can't win can they!
They haven't even got off the starting blocks with the new law coming in and yet there are those out to have a go at them already.
Give the average daily Garda on the beat a chance on this issue before you become judge and jury on their ass for gawds sake!

ScumLord · 26-01-2010 03:52PM

It may be supposedly intended for aggressive beggars but you can be sure it'll come to encompass all beggars. I think it's ridiculous, I've never had any trouble from beggars, I either give them money or not, if they don't leave it at that their told to **** off, most are down and outs and no threat, to me at least.

Many people seem to think people who aren't like them are offensive and that anyone who doesn't live up to their expectations should be cast out.

Morlar · 26-01-2010 03:58PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I've never had any trouble from beggars,

You are lucky. I have seen frail elderly people who unlike you do get bothered by aggesssive (predominantly roma) beggars. This law would help the gardai tackle the problems associated with it. If you look through AH you will find threads by people complaining about being hassled twice a day on their way to work and on their way from work by aggressive junkie beggars at luas machines etc. About bloody time it gets sorted in my view.

ScumLord · 26-01-2010 04:01PM

Morlar wrote: »

You are lucky. I have seen frail elderly people who unlike you do get bothered by aggesssive (predominantly roma) beggars. This law would help the gardai tackle the problems associated with it. If you look through AH you will find threads by people complaining about being hassled twice a day on their way to work and on their way from work by aggressive junkie beggars at luas machines etc. About bloody time it gets sorted in my view.

Well I'm of the opinion that it's up to the people that saw it happening to do something about it. I don't like the way every one's turning into scared sheep that expect some superstate to do everything for them. Within 50 years people will be expecting someone from the government to come round to their house and wipe their arse for them.

NothingMan · 26-01-2010 04:03PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Within 50 years people will be expecting someone from the government to come round to their house and wipe their arse for them.

Oooh, sign me up for that scheme. I'll be 74 by then so if they could change my adult nappy too that'd be super.

xsiborg · 26-01-2010 04:05PM

opinion guy wrote: »

So the government have finally decided to do something about the charity mugger problem (since they are the only ones I've ever seen aggressively begging). Brilliant its about time. If this is not aimed at charity muggers then I think its appalling.

absolutely agree with you on this one, i myself am so sick of being accosted by chariteeee mugs- "c'mere man, can i talk to ya for a minute? ahh go on, (cue mrs. doyle)". if i want to give you money, i will go over to you, theres no need to follow me for a good ten yards down the street! :mad:

Begging soon to be a crime with a prison sentence

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